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'Nightline' report on Apple production line shows iPhone is basically handmade - Page 2

post #41 of 70
2/22/12 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

Note - China doesn't use robots like we do, because people at this point are cheaper than robots... And given there are 2-3 times more people in China than the US, you need to keep them employed...

When labor is dirt cheap, you don't use robots. That's why china is great for labor-intensive production. If you want automation, you don't generally go to china.
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post #42 of 70
2/22/12 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ort View Post

My TiVo cut this off. When Bill Wier is back in studio and saying that Apple has said they are welcome to go back in the future, is that the end of the report or was there more?

That was the end.
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post #43 of 70
2/22/12 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

Hell, I'd love to take home roughly 82% of my wages after food and rent!!!!

Already covered in this thread. You can already save on your rent by bunking with people exactly like these people have. Why aren't you bunking with people to save money?
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post #44 of 70
2/22/12 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

When labor is dirt cheap, you don't use robots. That's why china is great for labor-intensive production. If you want automation, you don't generally go to china.

And I'm happy with the work product. I can't recall a problem I've had with any Apple device I've owned that was assembly related and not a component failure. I guess my only complaint is non-iDevice related - all the heatsink compound the glob on before pressing on the heatsink. Every MBP I own I tear down, clean up, and replace the compound with something better.
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post #45 of 70
2/22/12 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Slight omission in that Bill Weir added 'if Apple offered to pay for the increases'. That was a rather stupid question on his part. Why would Foxconn say no to a doubling of wages if Apple was going to pay for the raises?

Which was a not so subtle implication that Apple makes too much money. This sort of thinking is consistent with the current socialist undertones of American politics these days. Corporations and the rich (the definition of which changes from day to day) should be forced to redistribute their wealth to the workers. Weir kept repeating that Apple was the "world's most valuable company" over and over.

Bottom line? Apple IS the world's most valuable company and they just need to get used to the bullseye on their backs. Every swinging dick leftie is gunning for them.
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post #46 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

And what are the average salaries for other types of work in China?

Here are some numbers. Not up-to-date but you get the general idea:
http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml
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post #47 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

When labor is dirt cheap, you don't use robots. That's why china is great for labor-intensive production. If you want automation, you don't generally go to china.

Yup, a friend of mine works for Nokia and he has visited Nokia factories in China. He was surprised how little there was automation. The labor is so cheap that it doesn's pay to use robots.
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post #48 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:29am
i am aghast that foxconn charges for room and board ...(and that they don't increase the salary to cover the cost) apple should absolutely force foxconn the increase the workers wages to cover room & board... it's a communist country thus they should not have to pay to stay there.
yes, apple make their employees at head office pay for lunch etc, (so the cafeteria management doesn't start cutting corners in food quality, selection )
if you work in a lumber camp, you are well fed and it is free (cause a well fed person works better outside, and you don't have a choice)

i understand the reasons for the low wages, but I am disappointed that apple (though foxconn) makes the workers pay for room and board.
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post #49 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I would like to earn a months rent with only 10 hours of work.

Go live at the YMCA. Or better yet, a youth hostel.
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post #50 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropys View Post

I was laughing along for the first two sentences, as your comment appeared very promising. But the last sentence is a step too far. Some things do not belong in a joke. Ever.

Agreed. Unfortunately, as people who directly experienced the horrors of Nazi concentration camps are now few and far between, the scale of the atrocity seems to be fading, and comments like the above will become more frequent.
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post #51 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnb View Post

And to put that in perspective, a $0.70 meal would cost $10 here.

Rice, rotten cabbage and a tiny piece of hog jowls would cost you MUCH less than $10.00.
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post #52 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar View Post

i am aghast that foxconn charges for room and board ...(and that they don't increase the salary to cover the cost) apple should absolutely force foxconn the increase the workers wages to cover room & board... it's a communist country thus they should not have to pay to stay there...

i understand the reasons for the low wages, but I am disappointed that apple (though foxconn) makes the workers pay for room and board.

Apple doesn't make Foxconn do anything. Foxconnis a separate corporation, and they, like apple, will do what they can to maximize shareholder value. Also, just because the workers need to live near the company doesn't mean they shouldn't have to pay for room and board. If they weren't paying Foxconn, they'd be paying someone else, and all out of their earned income. If it would make you feel better, I guess Foxconn could lower their wages an equivalent amount and provide room and board for "free".
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post #53 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Agree and that is why the factory isn't in the USA.

That made sense when you were looking at production runs less than ~100k per month, and revisions every 3-6 months, but it doesn't seem as smart when you talk about products with ~5-10MM per month and a 12-month product cycle. It would seem much more logical to have it automated after you get past low-rate initial production.

Granted, the automation equipment would need to run about $15k per line position replaced (hopefully a single machine would have about 3-5x throughput so they could cost $50-75k per device), but it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch-- basically a $2.5B up-front hit to Apple with the benefit of diversifying production.
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post #54 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Rice, rotten cabbage and a tiny piece of hog jowls would cost you MUCH less than $10.00.

That is speculation and nothing more.

But in the right restaurants, rice, a tiny piece of hig jowls, and rotten cabbage could cost you MUCH more than ten dollars. Ever seen the portion sizes in a gourmet restaurant?
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post #55 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Go live at the YMCA. Or better yet, a youth hostel.

Hey, I lived at a youth hostel when I first started working as an engineer! It was 15 hours of wages to pay for a month's accommodation. (25 Hours at the nicer, second place.)

In terms of wages, the foxcon employees are able to save what the average Chinese person earns in a year.
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post #56 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really simple. If you don't like the living conditions, you don't take a job at Foxconn. What part of "personal choice" do you not understand?



By that logic, a starving man selling his shoes to eat is a freely made decision in a free marketplace guided by rational self-interest.
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post #57 of 70
2/22/12 at 8:11am
I noticed Weir mentioned the suicide threats without saying the company or product. He did say it as a non-Apple part of Foxconn but it seems odd to not mention MS or Xbox.

"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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post #58 of 70
2/22/12 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Already covered in this thread. You can already save on your rent by bunking with people exactly like these people have. Why aren't you bunking with people to save money?

Already have - it's called the U.S. Navy.

Guaranteed worse working and living conditions and still took home less...
OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #59 of 70
2/22/12 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Probably better than they're going to be in a few years times when they get replaced by robots.

Poor buggers.

It is unlikely robots would replace them ever. Even on car assembly lines, been using robots for decades, robots cannot do everything. The human touch is still needed for the finer details of final assembly. Technology would have to change from what it is currently in order for robots to successfully assemble such fine electronic into nifty packages.
Tory Hagen
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post #60 of 70
2/22/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Very labor intensive! The same factory in the US would be done very differently.

You can't automate a factory of that nature. Retooling an automated factory takes considerably longer than teaching workers to use a different screw in a new place on a device or adding a new component altogether. It's also much cheaper than buying new machines every time you need new functionality to make a new model of device.

Human power allows for incredible flexibility if a design change occurs at the last minute before or during production. And as scale in production increases, human power widens the flexibility gap against automation. And I'm not even taking into consideration having workers moving from one project (iPhone assembly) to another (iPad assembly) when supply and demand fluctuate for different products.
When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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post #61 of 70
2/22/12 at 9:10am
Unfortunately, many people will look at these wages and have the knee jerk reaction that this is "wrong" and should be corrected by Apple and/or the U.S. That's because they will compare the wages to U.S. wages when it is not a 1:1 correlation. When looking at the prevailing wages of rural China and the other jobs available, this is a good job. That's why they are able to attract hundreds of thousands of workers. If you feel that's wrong then you need to take it up with the Chinese government. But first remember that the alternative is to back breaking work on a farm and earning much less money.

Do wages need to go up there? Yes. But let's not react to the report without thinking first.

iPod, iPad, iPad2, iPad 3, iPad Mini, iPhone, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, AppleTV (1,2 & 3), 13" MacBook Pro, 24" Cinema Display, Time Capsule, 21.5" iMac (Mid 2011)

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iPod, iPad, iPad2, iPad 3, iPad Mini, iPhone, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, AppleTV (1,2 & 3), 13" MacBook Pro, 24" Cinema Display, Time Capsule, 21.5" iMac (Mid 2011)

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post #62 of 70
2/22/12 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

Very few spoiled Americans will ever do a repetitive job assembling gadgets by hand all day..even at the standard American minimum wage. That's one of the many reasons why those manufacturing jobs ain't coming back here in the States.

I hear this argument often, but is there any factual basis to it? I don't recall ever hearing of an American factory that was shut down and moved overseas because nobody could be found to work there.
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post #63 of 70
2/22/12 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Different countries have different standards. End of story.

+1

wait until we see what the conditions are in the factories being built in india.
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post #64 of 70
2/22/12 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I would like to earn a months rent with only 10 hours of work.

I think that's a reflection of their living conditions rather than generosity of pay.
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post #65 of 70
2/22/12 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We'll show you how these folks come on buses, sometimes for days, to travel to the Foxconn gates, desperate for a chance to wipe a screen or solder a chip for 10 hours a day at less than $1.50 an hour."

This entire debate could be ended by showing us where these folks come from.
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post #66 of 70
2/22/12 at 10:40am
Dang! Don't know how this people on earth got complaining...how many years they are using tainted toothpaste & poisonous toys!
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post #67 of 70
2/22/12 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

Already have - it's called the U.S. Navy.

Guaranteed worse working and living conditions and still took home less...

A friend of mine lived in a 3 room, shared living space apartment with 4 other people and was able to get by in a major city on $400 per month rent (all inclusive). A Google search for 3-5 dollars a day for meals turns up plenty of sites with information.

That's approximately $500-550 per month living expenses in a place where minimum wage is $10.25 per hour. Assuming you work 60 hours per week (my friend certainly didn't), that's around 80% of your salary free to do with as you please.

It's possible to do, you just have to be willing to set your your standard of living to be similar to that of those workers.
It's a world full of people
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It's a world full of people
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post #68 of 70
2/22/12 at 11:42am
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Originally Posted by Basty View Post

Dang! Don't know how this people on earth got complaining...how many years they are using tainted toothpaste & poisonous toys!

It's a Google conspiracy.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #69 of 70
2/22/12 at 2:32pm
Heck its Disneyland.
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post #70 of 70
2/22/12 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

ABC's Nightline special episode on Apple's production line offered an inside look at

Are you insane, or just some sort of low level AI programmed to quote press releases?

Five camera operators, four sound people, a satellite crew, five stylists, ten flunkies, a de facto hooker or two, and an actor with a BA in English who had insufficient talent to make it on reality TV cannot provide anyone an "inside look" of each other's nostrils, much a secure prison in a dictatorship that's received at least six weeks advance notice of the visit, and where merely being white guarantees that you are so much an outsider that nearly everyone you pass wants to take your picture.

You'd get more accurate information sending the entire Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus.

I hope you wash your hands after typing this stuff and before going to the bathroom. You could give yourself a disease.
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