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Factory workers claim Foxconn hid underage employees before FLA inspection - Page 2

post #41 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

Honestly you should probably read up on the situations there before saying they should raise the pays of workers there.

Nightline's conclusions were the main two issue were worker boredom and low wages. Honestly you should open your ears before telling me to read up.
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post #42 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Apple should open an office inside Foxconn with Apple & FLA staff permanently based there. That way they could walk around daily making sure everything is ok. Add a hotline for employees to call in confidence to report anything and Foxconn would not be able to get away with any abuses for long before Apple caught up with them. Much better than planned inspections where Foxconn can easily hide things.

That can't do that Shaun, because that would work and people on this forum don't want to solve problems, they just want to defend Apple no matter what. If anything threatens their little Apple they put on their cult hats and start kicking, screaming and generally belittling.
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post #43 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Apple should open an office inside Foxconn with Apple & FLA staff permanently based there. That way they could walk around daily making sure everything is ok. Add a hotline for employees to call in confidence to report anything and Foxconn would not be able to get away with any abuses for long before Apple caught up with them. Much better than planned inspections where Foxconn can easily hide things.

I'm not mocking you when I say, Apple should just buy a country and make that their new manufacturing/ everything HQ. That way they don't have to deal with all this nonsense. While it sounds disturbing, who wouldn't want to live in Applezistan?
post #44 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That can't do that Shaun, because that would work and people on this forum don't want to solve problems, they just want to defend Apple no matter what. If anything threatens their little Apple they put on their cult hats and start kicking, screaming and generally belittling.

Apple has responsibilities, but short of Apple taking over government of one or two companies (Freudian slip, I meant "countries"), we gotta just keep pushing Apple to do better. Isn't it Tim Cook that said they have higher expectations of themselves than anyone else?
post #45 of 181
This is absurd:

Quote:
SACOM has drafted a petition calling for Apple to "end the use of student workers; provide a living wage for all the workers so they do not have to work excessive overtime hours; conduct labour rights training for workers, including training on occupational health and safety; facilitate the formation of a genuine trade union through democratic election; and compensate the victims if there is non-compliance with the Apple code of conduct."

Bitch to FOXCONN the corporation Apple, DELL, ASUS, HP, etc., contract to for assembly.

They don't own FOXCONN.
post #46 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Apple should open an office inside Foxconn with Apple & FLA staff permanently based there. That way they could walk around daily making sure everything is ok. Add a hotline for employees to call in confidence to report anything and Foxconn would not be able to get away with any abuses for long before Apple caught up with them. Much better than planned inspections where Foxconn can easily hide things.

That would make sense. Apple should have some sort of presence at the factory. I am not sure about Foxconn employees calling Apple to complain about Foxconn though. Maybe an internal hotline but that would be up to Foxconn to monitor the calls.

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post #47 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgsarch View Post

$142? Only 3.5 years to buy an iPad? Really?

That's per month, Ralph.
post #48 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I hate Occam's razor. Occam's razor exists so that stupid people can simplify complicated things at the expense of reality.

You hate that very often simplest explanation is the right one? and it looks like the right one in this case to me too.

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post #49 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post

I'm not sure if you read my endless tirades but long story short I'm back in Oz after six years in Malaysia. What I'm seeing is that it is really hard to understand what is going on in the developing world. In summary, it ain't pretty there. Yes, worker's rights are important but it's not only the money. The systematic challenges throughout the socioeconomic fabric of Asia needs to be looked at more closely.

Why here in sunny Perth good ol' Curtin University is facing a massive backlash due to giving Malaysia's most heinous and corrupt first lady an honourary degree. I think Curtin didn't take into consideration how bad government is in Malaysia. (Also bl**dy ironic since Curtin has probably one of the highest percentages of Malaysian students ~ who, have to go to Curtin or overseas universities because, oh, institionalised racism [in Malaysia, so far here in oz a few yobos/bogans/etc have shouted at me but it's all good]).

</soap box ~ I promised I'd behave>

Very cool, ive never been there, ive been to Tai pei & japan 3 times.
bogans piss me off, apparently the southern cross is like our version of the confederate flag or something, so the racism isnt so secretive now.

Agreed, lots of stuff in all the 3rd world countries need some looking at, i wont be blaming apple for not fixing the world tho, thats crazy talk, i get that everyone should do their part but people are piping up alittle too much about it.
if people care they should get on a plane & help the people themselves, sorry i got on a soap box for a sec :O

PS never been to perth, ill have to at some point, ive seen alot of australia already.
post #50 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Nightline's conclusions were the main two issue were worker boredom and low wages. Honestly you should open your ears before telling me to read up.

.....that said enough but i think ill need to spell it out of you, boredom...Are you kidding me? that is plain or chocolate covered silly talk, work is work not fun, people getting bored everywhere is life.
that precious princess talk, some people need to drink a tall glass of harded the f*^% up.
only on the internet do i read such silly things, ill need to make a meme that reflects this.
& im sure id giggle my ass off thinking about it because its so silly
Im not a mean person i honestly say what i feel & help people out everywhere i can, but seriously all the 1st world problems we face doesn't qualify us to talk about alot of this stuff & boredom...its just..... filthy drinking water & having no job & no home, thats something horrible, repressing beige paint at work that makes me bored... or repetitive tasks thats alot of people work.
Have a coke & a smile.
post #51 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

However, I would say that I think the hours are high and living accommodation could be substantially better. In terms of conditions for workers, I would like to see Apple put their money where their mouth is and spend some of their $100 billion on funding improvements to accommodation at Foxconn and their other OEM partners (if Apple spent $500 million on this they'd still have $99.5 billion left in the bank and the accommodation would be amazing).

Wow. Now we think Apple should subsidize Foxconn.

Better yet, why not Apple subsidize my iPad purchase, and give it to me for free? After they spend just $800, they'll still have $99,999,999,200 left.
post #52 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR26 View Post

I am so sick and tired of all these "labor" groups trying to find fault with Apple's factory suppliers in China. Who the fuck are we to complain about another country's labor laws?

Thanks for bringing some sanity to this.

Most Europeans -- even Canadians -- think that our labor conditions in the US are primitive compared to theirs. And they are right. (Yet, sadly, we laugh at them.)
post #53 of 181
So Foxconn moves these abused workers to "other departments" when Apple etc have their inspections.

Obviously these "other departments" are the facilities that manufacture other companies' products and Foxconn feels safe moving them there because there is no scrutiny.

If this well meaning but misguided student really wanted to help these poor exploited workers and bring about change then I suggest she calls for scrutiny of ALL Foxconn's factories and pressures the companies who are using un-inspected workplaces where Foxconn can hide underage and exploited workers i.e.

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
Gateway (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
Microsoft (United States)
Motorola Mobility (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sony (Japan)
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)
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post #54 of 181
I have this picture in my head of one kid standing on another kid's shoulders under a long lab coat, with a fake moustache on, wobbling about.

"Hellooo Mr Inspector, how are you today? What nice weather we've been having lately."
post #55 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

IS this really so hard to believe? I think not and Apple is also not all ice cream and candy.

How many times do you have to be beaten over the head with the fact at this is NOT an Apple factory? You do realise that this company makes electronic devices for many other companies, right?
post #56 of 181
Here's a question, if Foxconn gets thousands of applicants at a time and they're only able to hire a fraction of them, why would they need to hire anyone who is underage?
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post #57 of 181
[QUOTE=Zozman;2052853].....that said enough but i think ill need to spell it out of you, boredom...Are you kidding me? that is plain or chocolate covered silly talk, work is work not fun, people getting bored everywhere is life.
that precious princess talk, some people need to drink a tall glass of harded the f*^% up.
only on the internet do i read such silly things, ill need to make a meme that reflects this.
& im sure id giggle my ass off thinking about it because its so silly
Im not a mean person i honestly say what i feel & help people out everywhere i can, but seriously all the 1st world problems we face doesn't qualify us to talk about alot of this stuff & boredom...its just..... filthy drinking water & having no job & no home, thats something horrible, repressing beige paint at work that makes me bored... or repetitive tasks thats alot of people work.
Have a coke & a smile.[/

Oh... So you draw the line at fithy water... Hmmmm. So, Be glad your not in the shitter and dont complain.... Or... While boredom seems mundane, if there is an easy low cost solution to help alleviate, why not? I admit it's a moving goal post...wants and needs never ending. But that's life... Continuously striving to make things better for yourself and hopefully your fellow human being... No?
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post #58 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

This whole affair isn't about China, it's about America. The unions, regulators, and taxes have driven labor abroad, and now they want to piss all over China to somehow force those jobs back. Not going to happen.

Our government and special interest groups have made manufacturing and labor impossible in the USA, which has utterly destroyed the middle class.

China wont make our mistakes, and they will continue to thrive. So before we start pointing fingers, remember how you voted in the last election first and blame yourself.

This meme is utterly false on multiple levels. The relocation of manufacturing jobs happens for a variety of reasons, and most surely has little to do with unions and regulations. European countries have significantly higher taxes, a much higher level of unionization (that isn't demonized but instead is promoted and part of the business management), and just as much regulation. Some of their manufacturing has moved abroad and some hasn't. Proximity to the supply chain, transportation costs to the final customer, quality, access to the required skilled labor, and many other things are factors.

Taxation may contribute, but not in the way you suggest. Instead it is used as a carrot to attract companies to manufacture in a market by lowering their costs. For the industrialized country, the only way to match this is to put an existing standard of living at risk.

You're right about one thing. Those jobs aren't coming back. But you could get rid of all the unions, regulations, and taxes yet the jobs still aren't coming back.
post #59 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

I think most of these big city liberal activist types don't understand anything outside of their academia circles.

And you are correct. I didn't see any walls or machine guns holding people in.

Clearly people would rather work hard for Foxconn than eat cat meat and rice in some shit hole Chinese country village.

China is a glorified 3rd world nation. No wonder thousands line up for work. I would too.

Also, all these leftists union morons need to get it through their noggin, Apple is not bringing those jobs here. They can do this smear campaign all day and night, never going to happen.

I'm a big city liberal activist.

I think the ignorant and oversimplified stance of the media and the slacktivist groups is pathetic.

In terms of wages, it sounds like the workers are making far better than a living wage. They are spending about 1/3 of their income on housing and food. That means that they can pocket about half of what they make. That's far more than I have been able to manage recently.
post #60 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

Disney Corporation owns the ABC News network. The fact that the Steve Jobs Trust is Disneys largest individual shareholder, coupled with Disney CEO Bob Iger now having a seat on Apples board of directors, certainly helped win the official approval from Apple. It also raises questions on a possible conflict of interest with this report.


Hopefully justice is brought to these workers.

Let's not forget that Apple has been doing these audits and helping the workers for years.

It seems to me that slacktivists are attacking Apple even though they are the only ones actually doing anything to help the factory workers.

In fact, if it weren't for Apple's release of the full audits, most of this would never have come to light.
post #61 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Weir spoke to someone admittedly 17yo. Why is that too young? I was in college and living and working full time on my own at age 17.

2) With so many people vying for jobs at Foxconn why would Foxconn have to hire underage workers that would violate laws and/or contracts?

1) well... Its complicated, but probably not too young. But just curious because you tend to give the more reasoned responses in this forum...in your opinion, how young is enough to work in a factory 60 hours a week and why? IMO, it should be at the end of about 10 years of basic education. Enough to know if there is other oppurtunities. Now is 60 hours too much... Whole other discussion.

Wow, I remember when we had big factories with tons of manual labor. Sigh.

2) Is this a rhetorical question?
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post #62 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Oh... So you draw the line at fithy water... Hmmmm. So, Be glad your not in the shitter and dont complain.... Or... While boredom seems mundane, if there is an easy low cost solution to help alleviate, why not? I admit it's a moving goal post...wants and needs never ending. But that's life... Continuously striving to make things better for yourself and hopefully your fellow human being... No?

I will respond with an emotion, it can say with one look what i could say to you in a long reply.

<---- not directed at striving to make things better for people, it is directed at the high horse simple minded internet talk that dribbled out of the sphincter on your lower face.
i didnt draw the line anywhere, i asumed (foolish of me) that people might read & use their own mind, do i need to do a list of things that are far worse then being bored? not just filthy water, its called perspective, go to a place that has bad conditions then you might have some idea, in life & this subject, do i really need to do that? is a list needed?, I should be asleep, if i seem rude, its only because its very late here & im sleepy, however i have no issue setting the feeble minded straight, its like charity for me, doing a service to the online community here
here is a few suggestions, have a point, have a reason why apart from something you would see on a saturday morning cartoon, dont try & troll me, as you may have noticed, i have no issue decimating troll types, Sorry if i offended you, I only snapped you because of the arrogant tone & pointless reply you wrote, have a nice day.
post #63 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTMP View Post

Let's not forget that Apple has been doing these audits and helping the workers for years.

It seems to me that slacktivists are attacking Apple even though they are the only ones actually doing anything to help the factory workers.

In fact, if it weren't for Apple's release of the full audits, most of this would never have come to light.

These things came WAY before Apple went public with results. Apple does this out of there own good heart... Or the ACTIVISTs.... Why sure... It's Apples good heart, what was I thinking.... Geesh.
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post #64 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

You're right about one thing. Those jobs aren't coming back. But you could get rid of all the unions, regulations, and taxes yet the jobs still aren't coming back.

Those precise jobs might not come back, but enough jobs for everyone would.

Under pure capitalism, price adjusts until the market clears. That includes the labor market, so under pure capitalism there is never any unemployment. Unemployed people are an uncleared market caused by interference in price adjustment by regulations, taxes, unions etc.
post #65 of 181
The sad part of all of this is that it wouldn't take a dramatic increase in the price we all pay for our toys to dramatically improve the lives of the people who assemble them. It is unfortunate that for all the rhetoric we love to put out on issues like this I suspect that a disheartening percentage would rather pay $50 less for their next new iPad or iPhone than have working conditions elevated to reasonable levels.

As for unions causing our lives to be improved to the point where corporations have been, as it were, forced to look elsewhere for their labour, let's consider the big picture. The focus should be on making our lives better, not on helping a small number of entrepreneurs become obscenely wealthy. If most of us were to live like slaves, considering that there is potential for us to all live like kings, how incredibly idiotic as a species would we appear to be.

While unions have their flaws and sometimes impede progress, to suggest that unions are the root of all evil is exceedingly short-sighted. In the early stages of the industrial revolution we saw just how heartless the process can be. I recall reading about how at the plant where my father had worked, before his time, working conditions were beyond unacceptable. When ownership was generous enough to lower the working day from 16 hours to 12 hours, a break to eat something was eliminated. Instead, for a few minutes production was brought down to a reduced rate to allow workers to eat something while they worked. This is the sort of absurd nonsense that caused unions to flourish in the first place.

None of us working today in industrialized nations like the US and Canada have the slightest idea what it is like to be a member of a workforce that is brutally exploited. We take eight-hour days for granted, expect vacation time, think making enough money to maintain a high standard of living is a God-given right. Our predecessors didn't stand for having their lives ruined by corporate greed, which is why unions rose up, doing so with an initial helping of violence that accentuates just how bad it can get if we give corporations a free ride.

It is deeply disappointing that long ago a generation rose up to end the tyranny of corporate excess, some even paying with their lives, and yet now we have some who would rather somebody's else's life is not improved in order to get a deal on a luxury item.

Look, I do understand that part of the problem is that most of us have zero faith in corporate types. If a $50 additional charge on a device could undeniably go 100 per cent into the pockets of underpaid employees, I would hope most of us would be generous enough to be happy to pay that additional fee. I suspect, though, that the perception would be that a lot of that money would wind up in the pockets of the few and not go to the people that should get it.

What a sad, miserable mess and an indictment of humanity all around.
post #66 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I will respond with an emotion, it can say with one look what i could say to you in a long reply.

<---- not directed at striving to make things better for people, it is directed at the high horse simple minded internet talk that dribbled out of the sphincter on your lower face.
i didnt draw the line anywhere, i asumed (foolish of me) that people might read & use their own mind, do i need to do a list of things that are far worse then being bored? not just filthy water, its called perspective, go to a place that has bad conditions then you might have some idea, in life & this subject, do i really need to do that? is a list needed?, I should be asleep, if i seem rude, its only because its very late here & im sleepy, however i have no issue setting the feeble minded straight, its like charity for me, doing a service to the online community here
here is a few suggestions, have a point, have a reason why apart from something you would see on a saturday morning cartoon, dont try & troll me, as you may have noticed, i have no issue decimating troll types, Sorry if i offended you, I only snapped you because of the arrogant tone & pointless reply you wrote, have a nice day.

Reviewing your prior posts and this one says it all. Get some sleep.
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post #67 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Here's a question, if Foxconn gets thousands of applicants at a time and they're only able to hire a fraction of them, why would they need to hire anyone who is underage?

Obviously, there's no reason. If there are underage workers there (which hasn't been established, btw), it is clearly an oversight or the employee lied. That's one of the things that Apple audits for.

I think it's interesting that people are up in arms about a few alleged underaged workers in a Chinese factory, but no one is picketing McDonald's or Sears for 16 and 17 year old workers in the U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

The sad part of all of this is that it wouldn't take a dramatic increase in the price we all pay for our toys to dramatically improve the lives of the people who assemble them. It is unfortunate that for all the rhetoric we love to put out on issues like this I suspect that a disheartening percentage would rather pay $50 less for their next new iPad or iPhone than have working conditions elevated to reasonable levels.

I think that's backwards. It doesn't take ANY increase in pay to improve the lives of the people who work there. They're already benefiting from the fact that they have a job which pays well above local standards.

If you're old enough to remember the situation in Japan 50 years ago, it wasn't all that different. People working for what we would consider to be horrible wages, long hours, rigid work rules, etc. Over time, the workers became more 'western' and started taking vacations while salaries increased to much closer to U.S. levels. Standard of living improved dramatically.

The same thing is already happening in China. Hours are being reduced, wages are up, and working conditions are improving as they find that the demand for workers exceeds the supply in some areas. It's simply a matter of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Apple should open an office inside Foxconn with Apple & FLA staff permanently based there. That way they could walk around daily making sure everything is ok. Add a hotline for employees to call in confidence to report anything and Foxconn would not be able to get away with any abuses for long before Apple caught up with them. Much better than planned inspections where Foxconn can easily hide things.

Apple already has a presence in Foxconn. You can be sure that there are Apple employees in the plant almost all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Foxconn should raise their pay to something decent

They're already paying considerably more than other companies in the area - which is why people are lining up looking for jobs.
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post #68 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So tell me why 17yo can't work in China and how Weir talked to a 17yo if they are not allowed to work and were apparently locked away from the investigators.


17 year olds not allowed to work in China? where did you get that?

Quote:
Apple's supplier code of conduct allows for workers between 16 and 18 years old if they are legally allowed to work


"Locked away"? You made that up out of whole cloth.

Quote:
"All underage workers, between 16-17 years old, were not assigned any overtime work and some of them were even sent to other departments," Chan reported the workers as having said.
post #69 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

.....that said enough but i think ill need to spell it out of you, boredom...Are you kidding me?

Nope, I'm not. They are bored and their employer needs to help alleviate it. It's simple really. If you had half of a brain you could work it out.
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post #70 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

They're already paying considerably more than other companies in the area - which is why people are lining up looking for jobs.

Bla bla bla. That's because they are making 10X what the other factories are making.
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post #71 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

The facts are that the pay at Foxconn is good for the type of work involved and no-one is forced to work there against their will.



According to the article:

Quote:
mainstream media outlets have left out an important issue that should be under the spotlight: involuntary labor
post #72 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Nope, I'm not. They are bored and their employer needs to help alleviate it. It's simple really. If you had half of a brian you could work it out.

Brian who?
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post #73 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

According to the article:

I'm not sure I buy that.

"APPLE/ANY AMERICAN COMPANY EVER USES SLAVE LABOR" is a much more enticing title than crap about workers' conditions. If they had ANY sort of evidence for it (heck, even if they didn't but thought they could get some), that would have been headlines, not crap about conditions.

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post #74 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post

I'm not mocking you when I say, Apple should just buy a country and make that their new manufacturing/ everything HQ. That way they don't have to deal with all this nonsense. While it sounds disturbing, who wouldn't want to live in Applezistan?

Apple is likely saving up its $100,000,000,000.00 to do just that.

Apple needs Sovereignty. Then nothing it does will be illegal. And if some pissant little market doesn't like what Apple does, they could call out the Marines.
post #75 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Obviously, there's no reason. If there are underage workers there (which hasn't been established, btw), it is clearly an oversight or the employee lied. That's one of the things that Apple audits for.

I think it's interesting that people are up in arms about a few alleged underaged workers in a Chinese factory, but no one is picketing McDonald's or Sears for 16 and 17 year old workers in the U.S.



I think that's backwards. It doesn't take ANY increase in pay to improve the lives of the people who work there. They're already benefiting from the fact that they have a job which pays well above local standards.

If you're old enough to remember the situation in Japan 50 years ago, it wasn't all that different. People working for what we would consider to be horrible wages, long hours, rigid work rules, etc. Over time, the workers became more 'western' and started taking vacations while salaries increased to much closer to U.S. levels. Standard of living improved dramatically.

The same thing is already happening in China. Hours are being reduced, wages are up, and working conditions are improving as they find that the demand for workers exceeds the supply in some areas. It's simply a matter of time.



Apple already has a presence in Foxconn. You can be sure that there are Apple employees in the plant almost all the time.



They're already paying considerably more than other companies in the area - which is why people are lining up looking for jobs.

I hope you are right that there will be improvements simply because that's how it goes but on the other hand if attention on the way these people are treated speeds up the process, this is a good thing. I think the key to stability is making sure the most people possible have enough to lose that they will prefer the status quo.

I have personally profited from Apple's success but I am pleased that Apple is now under pressure to step up on this matter. Thinking that we should just not care because commerce makes life better with no input from us whatsoever is a mistaken notion. Corporations do not upgrade their compensation to employees on a whim. They need to be pressured into doing it and that pressure includes the public getting behind making improvements. If there is no public concern expressed over this matter, it will slow down the rate of improvement. If this speeding up of the process means we end up paying a little more, I'll pay more gladly.
post #76 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Better yet, why not Apple subsidize my iPad purchase, and give it to me for free? After they spend just $800, they'll still have $99,999,999,200 left.

Classic strawman argument. Clearly Apple can't afford to give away iPads and making profit isn't evil. But spending money on improving accommodation would be a one-off cost that Apple would in effect not even notice.

It is a fact that relative to subsistence costs in China, the Foxconn wage is a good one. The hours are (very) long but not unheard of in developed nations. This is far from slave labour but would you do it? Would you be happy for your son or daughter to do it? Would you be happy to live in accommodation where you share washing facilities and don't even have your own bedroom? I think that just because conditions in the rest of China are worse doesn't mean that you should be able to so easily brush this under the carpet.

It is also a fact that Apple have accumulated $100 billion due to their very high margins, a significant element of which is the low manufacturing costs. I really do not think that asking them to put 0.5% of that back into the system is too much to ask.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #77 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Under pure capitalism, price adjusts until the market clears. That includes the labor market, so under pure capitalism there is never any unemployment. Unemployed people are an uncleared market caused by interference in price adjustment by regulations, taxes, unions etc.

Under unregulated capitalism, employers gang together to ensure that there will be an army of unemployed, willing to work for slave wages.
post #78 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

It is a fact that relative to subsistence costs in China, the Foxconn wage is a good one. The hours are (very) long but not unheard of in developed nations. This is far from slave labour but would you do it? Would you be happy for your son or daughter to do it? Would you be happy to live in accommodation where you share washing facilities and don't even have your own bedroom? I think that just because conditions in the rest of China are worse doesn't mean that you should be able to so easily brush this under the carpet.

If I was living in China I'd probably be more than happy to do it.

Another straw man argument actually.

Let's ask another question. Would anyone here be willing to go live in one of the Hell On Wheels camps in the USA when the railroads were built? Much worse conditions than Foxconn. Child labor as well. Taking a US citizen from today and plunking them into one of these camps would be the equivalent to hell on earth yet men from all over the country travelled far and wide just to be employed during that time.
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post #79 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm not sure I buy that.

"APPLE/ANY AMERICAN COMPANY EVER USES SLAVE LABOR" is a much more enticing title than crap about workers' conditions. If they had ANY sort of evidence for it (heck, even if they didn't but thought they could get some), that would have been headlines, not crap about conditions.

Here's the evidence:

Quote:
According to her, local Chinese government departments provide recruitment assistance for Foxconn and sometimes require that schools send their students to the manufacturer for internships even if their studies are in unrelated disciplines.
post #80 of 181
If the letter behind Apple's market value was an M instead of a B, no one would be hearing about Foxconn, Proview, etc. When you're at the top, every tool (including tools on this board) take shots at you.
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