Factory workers claim Foxconn hid underage employees before FLA inspection - Page 2

Nightline's conclusions were the main two issue were worker boredom and low wages. Honestly you should open your ears before telling me to read up.

That can't do that Shaun, because that would work and people on this forum don't want to solve problems, they just want to defend Apple no matter what. If anything threatens their little Apple they put on their cult hats and start kicking, screaming and generally belittling.

I'm not mocking you when I say, Apple should just buy a country and make that their new manufacturing/ everything HQ. That way they don't have to deal with all this nonsense. While it sounds disturbing, who wouldn't want to live in Applezistan?

Apple has responsibilities, but short of Apple taking over government of one or two companies (Freudian slip, I meant "countries"), we gotta just keep pushing Apple to do better. Isn't it Tim Cook that said they have higher expectations of themselves than anyone else?

This is absurd:


Bitch to FOXCONN the corporation Apple, DELL, ASUS, HP, etc., contract to for assembly.

They don't own FOXCONN.

That would make sense. Apple should have some sort of presence at the factory. I am not sure about Foxconn employees calling Apple to complain about Foxconn though. Maybe an internal hotline but that would be up to Foxconn to monitor the calls.

That's per month, Ralph.

You hate that very often simplest explanation is the right one? and it looks like the right one in this case to me too.

Very cool, ive never been there, ive been to Tai pei & japan 3 times.
bogans piss me off, apparently the southern cross is like our version of the confederate flag or something, so the racism isnt so secretive now.

Agreed, lots of stuff in all the 3rd world countries need some looking at, i wont be blaming apple for not fixing the world tho, thats crazy talk, i get that everyone should do their part but people are piping up alittle too much about it.
if people care they should get on a plane & help the people themselves, sorry i got on a soap box for a sec :O

PS never been to perth, ill have to at some point, ive seen alot of australia already.

.....that said enough but i think ill need to spell it out of you, boredom...Are you kidding me? that is plain or chocolate covered silly talk, work is work not fun, people getting bored everywhere is life.
that precious princess talk, some people need to drink a tall glass of harded the f*^% up.
only on the internet do i read such silly things, ill need to make a meme that reflects this.
& im sure id giggle my ass off thinking about it because its so silly
Im not a mean person i honestly say what i feel & help people out everywhere i can, but seriously all the 1st world problems we face doesn't qualify us to talk about alot of this stuff & boredom...its just..... filthy drinking water & having no job & no home, thats something horrible, repressing beige paint at work that makes me bored... or repetitive tasks thats alot of people work.
Have a coke & a smile.

Wow. Now we think Apple should subsidize Foxconn.

Better yet, why not Apple subsidize my iPad purchase, and give it to me for free? After they spend just $800, they'll still have $99,999,999,200 left.

Thanks for bringing some sanity to this.

Most Europeans -- even Canadians -- think that our labor conditions in the US are primitive compared to theirs. And they are right. (Yet, sadly, we laugh at them.)

So Foxconn moves these abused workers to "other departments" when Apple etc have their inspections.

Obviously these "other departments" are the facilities that manufacture other companies' products and Foxconn feels safe moving them there because there is no scrutiny.

If this well meaning but misguided student really wanted to help these poor exploited workers and bring about change then I suggest she calls for scrutiny of ALL Foxconn's factories and pressures the companies who are using un-inspected workplaces where Foxconn can hide underage and exploited workers i.e.

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
Gateway (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
Microsoft (United States)
Motorola Mobility (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sony (Japan)
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)

I have this picture in my head of one kid standing on another kid's shoulders under a long lab coat, with a fake moustache on, wobbling about.

"Hellooo Mr Inspector, how are you today? What nice weather we've been having lately."

How many times do you have to be beaten over the head with the fact at this is NOT an Apple factory? You do realise that this company makes electronic devices for many other companies, right?

Here's a question, if Foxconn gets thousands of applicants at a time and they're only able to hire a fraction of them, why would they need to hire anyone who is underage?

[QUOTE=Zozman;2052853].....that said enough but i think ill need to spell it out of you, boredom...Are you kidding me? that is plain or chocolate covered silly talk, work is work not fun, people getting bored everywhere is life.
that precious princess talk, some people need to drink a tall glass of harded the f*^% up.
only on the internet do i read such silly things, ill need to make a meme that reflects this.
& im sure id giggle my ass off thinking about it because its so silly
Im not a mean person i honestly say what i feel & help people out everywhere i can, but seriously all the 1st world problems we face doesn't qualify us to talk about alot of this stuff & boredom...its just..... filthy drinking water & having no job & no home, thats something horrible, repressing beige paint at work that makes me bored... or repetitive tasks thats alot of people work.
Have a coke & a smile.[/

Oh... So you draw the line at fithy water... Hmmmm. So, Be glad your not in the shitter and dont complain.... Or... While boredom seems mundane, if there is an easy low cost solution to help alleviate, why not? I admit it's a moving goal post...wants and needs never ending. But that's life... Continuously striving to make things better for yourself and hopefully your fellow human being... No?

This meme is utterly false on multiple levels. The relocation of manufacturing jobs happens for a variety of reasons, and most surely has little to do with unions and regulations. European countries have significantly higher taxes, a much higher level of unionization (that isn't demonized but instead is promoted and part of the business management), and just as much regulation. Some of their manufacturing has moved abroad and some hasn't. Proximity to the supply chain, transportation costs to the final customer, quality, access to the required skilled labor, and many other things are factors.

Taxation may contribute, but not in the way you suggest. Instead it is used as a carrot to attract companies to manufacture in a market by lowering their costs. For the industrialized country, the only way to match this is to put an existing standard of living at risk.

You're right about one thing. Those jobs aren't coming back. But you could get rid of all the unions, regulations, and taxes yet the jobs still aren't coming back.

I'm a big city liberal activist.

I think the ignorant and oversimplified stance of the media and the slacktivist groups is pathetic.

In terms of wages, it sounds like the workers are making far better than a living wage. They are spending about 1/3 of their income on housing and food. That means that they can pocket about half of what they make. That's far more than I have been able to manage recently.

Let's not forget that Apple has been doing these audits and helping the workers for years.

It seems to me that slacktivists are attacking Apple even though they are the only ones actually doing anything to help the factory workers.

In fact, if it weren't for Apple's release of the full audits, most of this would never have come to light.

1) well... Its complicated, but probably not too young. But just curious because you tend to give the more reasoned responses in this forum...in your opinion, how young is enough to work in a factory 60 hours a week and why? IMO, it should be at the end of about 10 years of basic education. Enough to know if there is other oppurtunities. Now is 60 hours too much... Whole other discussion.

Wow, I remember when we had big factories with tons of manual labor. Sigh.

2) Is this a rhetorical question?

I will respond with an emotion, it can say with one look what i could say to you in a long reply.

<---- not directed at striving to make things better for people, it is directed at the high horse simple minded internet talk that dribbled out of the sphincter on your lower face.
i didnt draw the line anywhere, i asumed (foolish of me) that people might read & use their own mind, do i need to do a list of things that are far worse then being bored? not just filthy water, its called perspective, go to a place that has bad conditions then you might have some idea, in life & this subject, do i really need to do that? is a list needed?, I should be asleep, if i seem rude, its only because its very late here & im sleepy, however i have no issue setting the feeble minded straight, its like charity for me, doing a service to the online community here
here is a few suggestions, have a point, have a reason why apart from something you would see on a saturday morning cartoon, dont try & troll me, as you may have noticed, i have no issue decimating troll types, Sorry if i offended you, I only snapped you because of the arrogant tone & pointless reply you wrote, have a nice day.

These things came WAY before Apple went public with results. Apple does this out of there own good heart... Or the ACTIVISTs.... Why sure... It's Apples good heart, what was I thinking.... Geesh.

Those precise jobs might not come back, but enough jobs for everyone would.

Under pure capitalism, price adjusts until the market clears. That includes the labor market, so under pure capitalism there is never any unemployment. Unemployed people are an uncleared market caused by interference in price adjustment by regulations, taxes, unions etc.

The sad part of all of this is that it wouldn't take a dramatic increase in the price we all pay for our toys to dramatically improve the lives of the people who assemble them. It is unfortunate that for all the rhetoric we love to put out on issues like this I suspect that a disheartening percentage would rather pay $50 less for their next new iPad or iPhone than have working conditions elevated to reasonable levels.

As for unions causing our lives to be improved to the point where corporations have been, as it were, forced to look elsewhere for their labour, let's consider the big picture. The focus should be on making our lives better, not on helping a small number of entrepreneurs become obscenely wealthy. If most of us were to live like slaves, considering that there is potential for us to all live like kings, how incredibly idiotic as a species would we appear to be.

While unions have their flaws and sometimes impede progress, to suggest that unions are the root of all evil is exceedingly short-sighted. In the early stages of the industrial revolution we saw just how heartless the process can be. I recall reading about how at the plant where my father had worked, before his time, working conditions were beyond unacceptable. When ownership was generous enough to lower the working day from 16 hours to 12 hours, a break to eat something was eliminated. Instead, for a few minutes production was brought down to a reduced rate to allow workers to eat something while they worked. This is the sort of absurd nonsense that caused unions to flourish in the first place.

None of us working today in industrialized nations like the US and Canada have the slightest idea what it is like to be a member of a workforce that is brutally exploited. We take eight-hour days for granted, expect vacation time, think making enough money to maintain a high standard of living is a God-given right. Our predecessors didn't stand for having their lives ruined by corporate greed, which is why unions rose up, doing so with an initial helping of violence that accentuates just how bad it can get if we give corporations a free ride.

It is deeply disappointing that long ago a generation rose up to end the tyranny of corporate excess, some even paying with their lives, and yet now we have some who would rather somebody's else's life is not improved in order to get a deal on a luxury item.

Look, I do understand that part of the problem is that most of us have zero faith in corporate types. If a $50 additional charge on a device could undeniably go 100 per cent into the pockets of underpaid employees, I would hope most of us would be generous enough to be happy to pay that additional fee. I suspect, though, that the perception would be that a lot of that money would wind up in the pockets of the few and not go to the people that should get it.

What a sad, miserable mess and an indictment of humanity all around.

Reviewing your prior posts and this one says it all. Get some sleep.

Obviously, there's no reason. If there are underage workers there (which hasn't been established, btw), it is clearly an oversight or the employee lied. That's one of the things that Apple audits for.

I think it's interesting that people are up in arms about a few alleged underaged workers in a Chinese factory, but no one is picketing McDonald's or Sears for 16 and 17 year old workers in the U.S.


I think that's backwards. It doesn't take ANY increase in pay to improve the lives of the people who work there. They're already benefiting from the fact that they have a job which pays well above local standards.

If you're old enough to remember the situation in Japan 50 years ago, it wasn't all that different. People working for what we would consider to be horrible wages, long hours, rigid work rules, etc. Over time, the workers became more 'western' and started taking vacations while salaries increased to much closer to U.S. levels. Standard of living improved dramatically.

The same thing is already happening in China. Hours are being reduced, wages are up, and working conditions are improving as they find that the demand for workers exceeds the supply in some areas. It's simply a matter of time.


Apple already has a presence in Foxconn. You can be sure that there are Apple employees in the plant almost all the time.


They're already paying considerably more than other companies in the area - which is why people are lining up looking for jobs.

17 year olds not allowed to work in China? where did you get that?



"Locked away"? You made that up out of whole cloth.

Nope, I'm not. They are bored and their employer needs to help alleviate it. It's simple really. If you had half of a brain you could work it out.

Bla bla bla. That's because they are making 10X what the other factories are making.

According to the article:

Brian who?

I'm not sure I buy that.

"APPLE/ANY AMERICAN COMPANY EVER USES SLAVE LABOR" is a much more enticing title than crap about workers' conditions. If they had ANY sort of evidence for it (heck, even if they didn't but thought they could get some), that would have been headlines, not crap about conditions.

Apple is likely saving up its $100,000,000,000.00 to do just that.

Apple needs Sovereignty. Then nothing it does will be illegal. And if some pissant little market doesn't like what Apple does, they could call out the Marines.

I hope you are right that there will be improvements simply because that's how it goes but on the other hand if attention on the way these people are treated speeds up the process, this is a good thing. I think the key to stability is making sure the most people possible have enough to lose that they will prefer the status quo.

I have personally profited from Apple's success but I am pleased that Apple is now under pressure to step up on this matter. Thinking that we should just not care because commerce makes life better with no input from us whatsoever is a mistaken notion. Corporations do not upgrade their compensation to employees on a whim. They need to be pressured into doing it and that pressure includes the public getting behind making improvements. If there is no public concern expressed over this matter, it will slow down the rate of improvement. If this speeding up of the process means we end up paying a little more, I'll pay more gladly.

Classic strawman argument. Clearly Apple can't afford to give away iPads and making profit isn't evil. But spending money on improving accommodation would be a one-off cost that Apple would in effect not even notice.

It is a fact that relative to subsistence costs in China, the Foxconn wage is a good one. The hours are (very) long but not unheard of in developed nations. This is far from slave labour but would you do it? Would you be happy for your son or daughter to do it? Would you be happy to live in accommodation where you share washing facilities and don't even have your own bedroom? I think that just because conditions in the rest of China are worse doesn't mean that you should be able to so easily brush this under the carpet.

It is also a fact that Apple have accumulated $100 billion due to their very high margins, a significant element of which is the low manufacturing costs. I really do not think that asking them to put 0.5% of that back into the system is too much to ask.

Under unregulated capitalism, employers gang together to ensure that there will be an army of unemployed, willing to work for slave wages.

If I was living in China I'd probably be more than happy to do it.

Another straw man argument actually.

Let's ask another question. Would anyone here be willing to go live in one of the Hell On Wheels camps in the USA when the railroads were built? Much worse conditions than Foxconn. Child labor as well. Taking a US citizen from today and plunking them into one of these camps would be the equivalent to hell on earth yet men from all over the country travelled far and wide just to be employed during that time.

Here's the evidence:

If the letter behind Apple's market value was an M instead of a B, no one would be hearing about Foxconn, Proview, etc. When you're at the top, every tool (including tools on this board) take shots at you.