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Former factory workers urge public to sign Apple labor petition - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

What seems really unfair to apple is that Apple has become the face of everything that is wrong with overseas labor practices. It's not fair.....

Only to the shallow and ignorant.
post #42 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

I worked in a pit barbecue at 15 years for just over $3 an hour. The kitchen was 100F in the winter. Had a paper route before that. Worked sheet rocking, taping and floating over the summers which was an upgrade from roofing in the 100+ heat the summer before If I got a living wage for those jobs no one who earns a wage to live on could afford fajitas, new papers, roofs or walls.

I learned that I needed to learn a skill that permitted air conditioning.

I worked at the end of the "green chain" at a lumber mill in the middle of nowhere. We pulled 2X4 after 2X4 off that chain for days on end, lived 6-8 to a bunk shed, had nowhere to spend our money except at an improvised bar, were beaten by the big guy who went psycho each weekend because he worked too many overtime shifts and hadn't seen a female in 2 months.

I learned that I needed to learn a skill so that I wouldn't be treated like a complete asshole all my life. It still didn't work.
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post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

What seems really unfair to apple is that Apple has become the face of everything that is wrong with overseas labor practices. It's not fair.....

It's a Nike moment...
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post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

These deranged leftist activists are evil and stupid people. Their petition deserves to be pissed on.
What a bunch of losers and disgusting freaks. They can take their retarded and offensive political ideas and shove it where the sun don't shine

I agree, that the solution should not be solely an Apple problem, but good conditions for workers is a worthy goal.
Certainly worthy of a more intelligent response than the one you gave.
Yeah, you really make THEM sound, "evil and stupid"
Whose retarded political ideas are you supporting, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul's
post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1153 View Post

Yeah, you really make THEM sound, "evil and stupid"
Whose retarded political ideas are you supporting, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul's

The retard that sounds the most like this.
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1153 View Post

Yeah, you really make THEM sound, "evil and stupid"
Whose retarded political ideas are you supporting, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul's

Yeah, I believe that they are evil and stupid. That's my educated conclusion after looking at their website.

Since you took the time to sign up to this site and make your first post, perhaps you are one of them.

As for who I will be supporting, I have not yet determined that. I'll support Bozo the clown if he's running, instead of what we currently have.
post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1153 View Post

I agree, that the solution should not be solely an Apple problem, but good conditions for workers is a worthy goal.

I disagree that it's a worthy goal, as "good" is a word that can be interpreted differently according to who you ask. The activist's definition of "good" is not the same as my definition of "good".

They even mentioned how they wanted Unions in China. Well that's just great! That is not a worthy cause at all. As if there's not enough corruption and crap in China already and they want to bring even more corruption by inviting criminal Unions. I am anti-Union and I don't see any need for any such criminal enterprises. And I especially do not want a bunch of criminals in charge of the workers who assemble my Apple products.
post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Speaking of beef. Lets say I'm at McDonald's. I order a Big Mac. While my sandwich is being made the McDonald's employee slips and fails. They then sue me because it was my sandwich they were making when they fell. Is that pretty much what this petition is suggesting?

You eat those things?
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I disagree that it's a worthy goal, as "good" is a word that can be interpreted differently according to who you ask. The activist's definition of "good" is not the same as my definition of "good".

They even mentioned how they wanted Unions in China. Well that's just great! That is not a worthy cause at all. As if there's not enough corruption and crap in China already and they want to bring even more corruption by inviting criminal Unions. I am anti-Union and I don't see any need for any such criminal enterprises. And I especially do not want a bunch of criminals in charge of the workers who assemble my Apple products.

That's pretty broad reaching about Unions. They have a great place in US history in regions where there was no competition and persons were treated close indentured servants. A union partnering with a company for the success of that company is a good thing. A union running a protection racket across the whole industry and across sovereign states is another thing entirely. Let them organize and work with Foxconn. It would be a very un-China thing to do.
post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

My feeling is that it depends upon how involved Apple was in the setup of the production line. If they trusted Wintek to not expose workers to toxic chemicals that might have been naive but not a mistake that would warrant Apple having to pay damages. However, if Apple gave express permission or were otherwise closely involved in the decision to use n-hexane I think it becomes a different matter.

Wasn't Apostrophes a greek god??
post #51 of 71
Wintek is the company they should be signing a petition for, not Apple. Remember people, Wintek, Foxconn are all companies contracted to build or manufacture things for Apple. None of those people are employed by Apple and Apple really doesn't have to care about any of them to a certain point. But Apple does care. So explain that to the people that try an petition against Apple. To many people think that all of these people employed in China are employed by Apple. There NOT!!!
post #52 of 71
What happened to Nokia?
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post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

That's pretty broad reaching about Unions.

I don't deny that Unions have done some good in the past, many decades ago, but I do not see much evidence of that nowadays.
post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't deny that Unions have done some good in the past, many decades ago, but I do not see much evidence of that nowadays.

Yes but China isn't the same thing as US nowadays. They are China nowadays which is a few first world cities in a 3rd world country. The first world being funded on the backs of the 3rd world.
post #55 of 71
these articles leave a lot of blanks and questions.

For example I'm not saying these workers don't have a real greviance but even this article says the issue was settled with bonuses paid out and the chemical banned, so now what's happening?

are the workers just trying to get more money? after wintek paid out, now because of the Apple's billions it's apple's turn? From the article I can't tell if anybody checked the workers claims, i.e health records, payout agreements received etc (like did anybody do any real investigative reporting or just because it's apple bashing it's true?)

I have worked in Asia and even more so than here we have to be careful in checking things out, in many parts of Asia the $ is KING. Case in point the Proview iPad trademark case, they sold the trademark for about 50k (big Hong Kong court backs apple) but now realizing Apple's got money they want $2 billion.

"We have been pressuring Apple, and its new CEO Tim Cook, for years to compensate"
Why? shouldn't they be pressuring Wintek? Seriously I've worked in Asia for years , like cab drivers there, they probably think Apple a rich foreigner is an easy mark.

As for SumofUs, at first they described Foxconn as a hell hole with children working there, then when FLA investigates and initial findings say Foxconn is above the norm they have a FLA smear campaign. SumofUs base their EVIDENCE on (from their website) "reporters" and "news accounts", seriously? News accounts is evidence? Their earlier petition was based on the B.S New York times article (the infamous error filled article where 'sources' one day later wrote open letters to refute).

Groups like SumofUs are publicity whores who pick on apple and ignore the rest to get pubicity (hey PCs had 90% market share for YEARS built in the same or worse factories so where's their dozens of petitions for acer , asus, samsung, dell etc ?)

finally, I have to conclude I don't know whether the workers claims are true or not or how Apple (not being their employer ) is liable. Wintek already paid so what's this about? Until someone actually does some real INVESTIGATIVE reporting (show me the medical records, show me the documents of the Wintek payment, apple's liability in its purchase agreement etc) I'll reserve judgement.
post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

Yes but China isn't the same thing as US nowadays. They are China nowadays which is a few first world cities in a 3rd world country. The first world being funded on the backs of the 3rd world.

Yes, I do realize that China is definitely not the same thing as the US today in 2012. That is the point that I have made numerous times in these kind of threads. It is the activists who need to be educated on that fact, not an informed person such as myself.

And that's why I am perfectly ok with them making 3rd world wages, because that's how the majority of them live. A few silly people signing any petition is not going to change how the country of China operates. All countries in the world are not equally evolved, and that's just how things are.

I am certainly against economic equality for all, because that's just about the dumbest and most unrealistic idea that I have ever heard. Every country needs to get there at their own pace. I also don't have much concern for countries which are totalitarian run.
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

In many cases, people literally are dying while making Apple products.

Yeah right.

Actually, this claim is not as false as you may initially think.

When I purchased my own iPad I took it home, unlocked and opened the home screen, and a dead Foxconn worker fell out. My friend had a similar thing happen, but with a dolphin.

True story.

Something really needs to be done to help these poor workers that specifically applied to work at Foxconn and also have the ability to leave at any time they wish.
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post #58 of 71
When you are top company in the world you wield quite a bit of power. The only company that can actually make a change, if they choose too is Apple. If they wanted to truly make a change they can. That is why Apple is singled out. Public opinion is big for Apple. If they sit back and do nothing real, they condone what is going on. If they squeeze Foxconn they could make significant changes. The ball is in Apple's court here. A few "audits" mean nothing. Wielding their financial might does. If Foxconn actually thought they cold lose Apple's business, I suspect things would change.
post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post


Something really needs to be done to help these poor workers that specifically applied to work at Foxconn and also have the ability to leave at any time they wish.

Did you see the pictures of all those people lining up outside the factories dying to get in and looking for a job?

These people clearly must be idiots! What could they possibly be thinking, trying to get a job and make some money. That is outrageous!

The activists should line up outside the hiring offices and form a human chain, preventing anybody from working or being hired! The activists should use force if necessary and beat up anybody trying to get a job, since the workers are obviously dumb people and they don't even know what's best for themselves. The activists know what's best. Everybody should listen to them.
post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Your beef is with your employer, not with Apple. I'll sign no such petition.

Totally agree. The Nightline special made me think that conditions in China are much better than I was lead to believe by all the media reports.

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post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Depending on the injury perhaps Apple should offer them free "bumpers". (OK, that joke likely bombed)

Only if they had been gripping the burger tightly in the wrong place.
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post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Totally agree. The Nightline special made me think that conditions in China are much better than I was lead to believe by all the media reports.

And kind of hard to imagine young children slipping on those face masks and climbing up on those high stools under bright lights to screw on iPad covers without being obvious?
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'd sign a petition to improve workers' conditions in China as long as the petition didn't apply to Apple in any way whatsoever.

Same here. It's now up to the will of the Chinese people (factory workers) vs. their government. Guess who will win.

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post #64 of 71
Tomorrow Tim Cook needs to tell these union activists to STFU and take it up with the Chinese government. This issue has wasted far too much of Apple's time. Apple doesn't run China.

And to Mike Daisy... Quit being a weenie and take it up with the government in Beijing. I'm sure they'll be very sympathetic to your whining. LOL.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #65 of 71
After tomorrow's annual meeting Apple should again go silent on these issues publicly other than their audit reports that they make public as one of the effects of Tim Cook talking openly about this is that these morons are just grabbing more headlines and feel legitimized. As I have mentioned on another article on AI (sorry for repeating) this is all such BS. Here is my previous comment for those that missed it.

As an American living and teaching in China, the ignorance and arrogance of Americans is an embarrassment at best, and pathetic at its worst. I have worked in both an auto plant and steel mill in the US as a front line worker so I know something about harsh work environments - at a Ford engine plant I had to work MANDATORY 7 days a week and had only 2 days off an entire summer only because I called in sick one day and they gave us the 4th of July. I had to STAND ALL DAY at a conveyor line inspecting heavy cast iron parts for that job. At the steel mills I often worked double shifts to make extra money, and worked outdoors ON TOP OF THE OVENS. It was so hot I had to wear thermal underwear even in the summer to keep the heat off. I also had to wear wooden clogs on the bottoms of my work boots to keep from burning the bottoms of my feet. Add to that, wearing a screen in front of my face in case the gasses I worked around burst into flames as the screen would help keep the flames from burning my face although a couple times they snuck under and burned my neck. These idiot Americans complaining about worker conditions in China have no clue what they are talking about and should just shut the fuck up and work at solving our own problems back in the US. The problem is none of these morons have actually ever worked in a factory. Meanwhile, Foxconn workers are not only working in modern well lit and clean factories, but are also saving money for themselves, as well as sending money home to their poor rural families to help support them. They are making a living wage, and an above average factory wage for China. I applaud Apple for what they are accomplishing on this front.
post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

After tomorrow's annual meeting Apple should again go silent on these issues publicly other than their audit reports that they make public as one of the effects of Tim Cook talking openly about this is that these morons are just grabbing more headlines and feel legitimized. As I have mentioned on another article on AI (sorry for repeating) this is all such BS. Here is my previous comment for those that missed it.

That's a good point, and which is why mot companies either remain dead silent or offer curt PR statements to deal with stuff like this. They know that doing the right thing, ie. responding openly and transparently if often akin to shooting themselves in the face- as it enlarges the media attention, validates and empowers the attackers, and makes the media cycle on the issue continue far longer than it would have if they had done nothing in response. It's the paradox of doing the right thing- you more often than not get punished for it, because you're not dealing with fully rational people who are honest in their motivations. Whatever you say and do will lead to more ammo for attack.

Apple's final response at this point should be going on the offensive, and challenging other industry players to follow their lead and start announcing their own audits, transparency, etc and opening up their own suppliers scrutiny. One of two things will happen. Either everyone will remain silent (which will probably be the case, because they're loving out the fact that Apple is being singled out and don't want to bring attention to themselves) or, they WILL make their own announcements, which will take attention away from Apple and erase the misconception in people's mind that this is an Apple issue. At that point, everyone will get bored and move on to the next story of the day.
post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

That's a good point, and which is why mot companies either remain dead silent or offer curt PR statements to deal with stuff like this. They know that doing the right thing, ie. responding openly and transparently if often akin to shooting themselves in the face- as it enlarges the media attention, validates and empowers the attackers, and makes the media cycle on the issue continue far longer than it would have if they had done nothing in response. It's the paradox of doing the right thing- you more often than not get punished for it, because you're not dealing with fully rational people who are honest in their motivations. Whatever you say and do will lead to more ammo for attack.

Apple's final response at this point should be going on the offensive, and challenging other industry players to follow their lead and start announcing their own audits, transparency, etc and opening up their own suppliers scrutiny. One of two things will happen. Either everyone will remain silent (which will probably be the case, because they're loving out the fact that Apple is being singled out and don't want to bring attention to themselves) or, they WILL make their own announcements, which will take attention away from Apple and erase the misconception in people's mind that this is an Apple issue. At that point, everyone will get bored and move on to the next story of the day.

Tim's problem now is that he has been too accommodating to people who probably don't even own Apple stock or products. Tim, I gotta tell you... Apple comes first.

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post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Tomorrow Tim Cook needs to tell these union activists to STFU and take it up with the Chinese government. This issue has wasted far too much of Apple's time. Apple doesn't run China.

And to Mike Daisy... Quit being a weenie and take it up with the government in Beijing. I'm sure they'll be very sympathetic to your whining. LOL.

Exactly
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post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Tomorrow Tim Cook needs to tell these union activists to STFU and take it up with the Chinese government. This issue has wasted far too much of Apple's time. Apple doesn't run China.

And to Mike Daisy... Quit being a weenie and take it up with the government in Beijing. I'm sure they'll be very sympathetic to your whining. LOL.

Mike Daisey is an opportunist, a hack "journalist", and worst of all regarding this subject, a profiteer. The press never mentions that this a-hole spoke to only a handful of workers (out of 400,000 at this facility) and THAT HE CHARGES $75 - $85 FOR TICKETS TO HIS ONE MAN SHOW!!!! Hey Mike! Why don't you donate all that money to the workers' families back in their rural hometowns so they can quit the highest paying jobs anyone in their family has ever had and return home?
post #70 of 71
I don't think these people work for Apple. If they read their paycheck they will see the name Foxconn. Oh, right, they don't work for them anymore either. Get a job and leave the politics to the bosses.
post #71 of 71
Oh, no not a dolphin! now I am really mad. or not!
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