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Apple wants to reinvent keyboards, making them even thinner - Page 2

post #41 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

the QWERTY keyboard is [and was intentionally designed to be] a square wheel.
We should move to the DVORAK keyboard. the only reason we use QWERTY is because typewriters used to jam because people were typing too fast w/ early DVORAK versions. QWERTY slowed us all down, and has led to millions of repetitive use injuries.

I would like to try it but since you can't realistically tear apart your MBP keyboard and rearrange the keys, it is not practical to have one layout on your desktop machine and another on your notebook.

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post #42 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's what the Optimus Tactus intends to bring to the table

Looks fantastic but is this thing actually on the market yet? They've been floating these concept designs around for a few years now.
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post #43 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Looks fantastic but is this thing actually on the market yet? They've been floating these concept designs around for a few years now.

Yeah, the old giant one with the huge keys has been available for years and the one I linked second is available for preorder now. It's just over $1,000.

The one I wanted, the fully touchscreen one, is just a concept still.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #44 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaag View Post

There needs to be a "full stop" feel when you press your finger on a key and it hits bottom.

For you. But yours is not a universal opinion or a fact. There are many folks that are just fine with rubber keys and even touchscreen 'no feel' keyboards.
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post #45 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Apple is patenting everything they can think of, even though they have no plans to ever manufacture it.

Their strategy seems to be to prevent these technologies from ever seeing the light of day.

Hey - if the patent trolls do it, why not Apple?

Actually no. Apple is NOT a patent troll simply because they patent their ideas that they don't intend to use. How is that, because they will license them if someone asks. And if someone uses it and didn't ask then they deserve to be sued. That isn't patent trolling at all.

Patent trolls don't use their patents and don't license them but rather wait for someone to use it, gain heavy profit from it and then go 'oh we own that so all your base are ours, pay up'
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post #46 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I would like to try it but since you can't realistically tear apart your MBP keyboard and rearrange the keys, it is not practical to have one layout on your desktop machine and another on your notebook.

Interesting point. Once upon a time someone was floating around the idea of a touchscreen keyboard that would have the letters etc on a display. And would change for the needs of the moment. Much like iOS devices do. So why not that for a keyboard and it could change for languages or even perhaps in advanced apps like Final Cut it would show the shortcuts (so you wouldn't need to buy a skin for it).
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post #47 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary View Post

FlexiKeys ....

Yum!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaggs

I knew that one day I would see the ZX-81 and ZX Spectrum keyboards again...

Jokes aside, I personally dislike rubber keyboards.

Not quite:



The image used in the article is a bit misleading as it's just an enlarged drawing of the contact membrane. The key itself is just your usual key stuck to a different lever.

Right now, Apple uses the scissor switch keys, which give the right feel but wobble a bit and still click when typing.

I quite like the idea of using optical technology where the LED to illuminate the key shines onto a sensor and a key press simply hides the LED from the sensor. This way, no matter how hard you press a key, it responds the same way and reduces the urge some people have of pressing keys harder to make them respond.

I do think they will need to make the key travel vertically but I guess with such low travel distances, you might not notice the key rotation, especially if the fulcrum is far enough away from the key.
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post #48 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:54am
Apple already makes the worst keyboards on the market. Now they're doubling-down on bad. Sad.
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post #49 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:54am
This invention looks so obvious, now; as do most things Apple.
Know History; Not just your Folklore
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post #50 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:56am
NO. THANK. YOU.

I love keyboards with a lot of travel. I use old IBM clicky keyboards for this reason at my desk.

Laptop keyboards are bad enough already. Let's not make them even worse.

Apple should stop trying to make things so thin. They're thin enough already. Work on making it lighter instead.
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post #51 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Interesting point. Once upon a time someone was floating around the idea of a touchscreen keyboard that would have the letters etc on a display. And would change for the needs of the moment. Much like iOS devices do. So why not that for a keyboard and it could change for languages or even perhaps in advanced apps like Final Cut it would show the shortcuts (so you wouldn't need to buy a skin for it).

My gosh, I want this so much. I can't tell you how much I want this. I'm fine with it being a single touchscreen instead of a bunch of keys with a bunch of screens behind them.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #52 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:58am
Anything to reduce the keyboard imprint on the glossy MBP screens is a good thing. The Anti-glare screens being slightly recessed, don't seem to suffer from the same problem.
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post #53 of 73
2/23/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyR View Post

Anything to reduce the keyboard imprint on the glossy MBP screens is a good thing. The Anti-glare screens being slightly recessed, don't seem to suffer from the same problem.

The glossy screens are covered with glass Just wipe them clean. How can there be an imprint?
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #54 of 73
2/23/12 at 11:04am
I m really liking my Magic Track Pad. I think that with some work, it could easily become a keyboard.
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post #55 of 73
2/23/12 at 11:19am
This isn't reinventing the keyboard. It's just a different type of membrane.

++ to the person who mocked the older Apple crumb catcher keyboards. Those were terrible.

The new aluminium ones are brilliant however. Replaced all my old ones with them. Solid feel to the keys and thanks to the very narrow gap between the keys and the aluminium grid they are largely immune to liquid spills.
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post #56 of 73
2/23/12 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's what the Optimus Tactus intends to bring to the table:


Removing tactility from the desktop keyboard is no solution at all.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #57 of 73
2/23/12 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's what the Optimus Tactus intends to bring to the table

.....ok. What did it take the geniuses at Lebedev to bring the Maximus to reality? 8 Years? And what did they give us when they finally got their act together and actually built something? A Two Thousand dollar input device with one primary function. I could buy a screaming fast MBP or two 64GB 3G iPads for that kind of cash.

I would not bet your money on Lebedev's clowns to bring anything to reality except another ridiculous concept drawing.

And really, what is this "Tactus" you've pictured except an iPad with a different form-factor?
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post #58 of 73
2/23/12 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by echosonic View Post

.....ok. What did it take the geniuses at Lebedev to bring the Maximus to reality? 8 Years? And what did they give us when they finally got their act together and actually built something? A Two Thousand dollar input device with one primary function. I could buy a screaming fast MBP or two 64GB 3G iPads for that kind of cash.

I would not bet your money on Lebedev's clowns to bring anything to reality except another ridiculous concept drawing.

And really, what is this "Tactus" you've pictured except an iPad with a different form-factor?

Oh, and don't forget to pick up a wall-wart and USB cable with your cutting-edge Tactus folks....it'll look great next to your brick-phone.
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post #59 of 73
2/23/12 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by echosonic View Post

I would not bet your money on Lebedev's clowns to bring anything to reality except another ridiculous concept drawing.

Neither would I, but they're the only ones doing anything new in the keyboard department.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #60 of 73
2/23/12 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Apple already makes the worst keyboards on the market. Now they're doubling-down on bad. Sad.

Funny I recently bought one of the Apple wired keyboards to replace my old keyboard that still had a Windows key. I find I'm typing faster than I was before and I'm putting it down to the fact that there is minimal travel when typing on it. I quite like it. Plus it's so small on my desk. I hate dealing w/wireless batteries and wanted the keypad tho, so I got the wired one.
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post #61 of 73
2/23/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I would like to try it but since you can't realistically tear apart your MBP keyboard and rearrange the keys, it is not practical to have one layout on your desktop machine and another on your notebook.

Back in the MS-DOS days there were software packages that would reconfigure a standard keyboard to Dvorak. A simple TSR program would intercept the keystroke and resign it with a different code. You could either tape overlays to the keys to change the character or pop off the keys and move them around.
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post #62 of 73
2/23/12 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

Back in the MS-DOS days there were software packages that would reconfigure a standard keyboard to Dvorak. A simple TSR program would intercept the keystroke and resign it with a different code. You could either tape overlays to the keys to change the character or pop off the keys and move them around.

That is what OS X does for you. You can choose any language or DVORAK form the system preference. Problem is that you will probably ruin your keyboard popping off the keys since modern keyboards are much more complicated engineering than the old days, and sticking tape over the keys is, well, tacky.

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post #63 of 73
2/23/12 at 1:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Actually no. Apple is NOT a patent troll simply because they patent their ideas that they don't intend to use. How is that, because they will license them if someone asks. And if someone uses it and didn't ask then they deserve to be sued. That isn't patent trolling at all.

Patent trolls don't use their patents and don't license them but rather wait for someone to use it, gain heavy profit from it and then go 'oh we own that so all your base are ours, pay up'

No matter how much patent research you do, it's possible to find someone who says they own it. Typically they would be notified first before something actually makes its way to court. Patents in general really need some kind of technology so that you can't just patent every idea that comes to mind that hasn't been claimed by someone else. Anyway you should really be less hateful toward them unless they're deliberately copying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyR View Post

Anything to reduce the keyboard imprint on the glossy MBP screens is a good thing. The Anti-glare screens being slightly recessed, don't seem to suffer from the same problem.

My guess would be that we're nearing a point where the costs of a touch screen keyboard implementation are nearing feasibility. Of course they could also go the route of just thinner physical buttons as displayed here. I'm wondering what is considered ideal in terms of range of motion there. Would pressure based keys without any range of motion cause any kind of cramping or alleviate it? It would be an interesting product study. If a company like Apple wanted to create such a study, they obviously wouldn't do it themselves.
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post #64 of 73
2/23/12 at 2:37pm
I want a keyboard with ground in bogies and splashes of tea all over it. Oh hang on... I've already got one.
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post #65 of 73
2/23/12 at 6:18pm
Thinner keyboard to make thinner laptops would be nice, but also need thinner adaptor to go with it too. I love how easy it is to carry around my 11" MBA in its sleeve, but I hate having that big bulge coming from that brick of an adaptor!
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post #66 of 73
2/23/12 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wonder if alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass would allow it to be thin and feel great to the touch. The letter could and allow light to shine through well. I only worry about the edge of the keys feeling right.



I don't see that happening since it reduces usability when there is plenty of space for a keyboard. However, making an AMOLED display that would be black most of the time (use no power) and then have options for stock ticker, system info, notifications, slider controls for audio and video apps, an on screen number pad, or calculator would be great. No need for anything high def like on a phone. Dell as worked on a prototype for their Adamo line but you need a company that can work with HW the OS and create APIs to make it useful. That's Apple. That only Apple.


Why complicate things? If you're going to turn the input device into a secondary screen only for widgets, why not just turn the primary screen into an input device and get rid of the trackpad all together? And while they're at it, get rid of the keyboard too...oh wait a minute, they've done that already...
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post #67 of 73
2/23/12 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeira4u View Post

Why complicate things? If you're going to turn the input device into a secondary screen only for widgets, why not just turn the primary screen into an input device and get rid of the trackpad all together? And while they're at it, get rid of the keyboard too...oh wait a minute, they've done that already...

1) Typing on a vertical screen with your arms outstretched is not making things easier.

2) Typing long messages on a tactile-less virtual keyboard is not making things easier.

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post #68 of 73
2/23/12 at 7:51pm
This looks absolutely awesome! Also, if they find a way to make this quite sturdy think of how much thinner laptops could be (in the sense that they could still upgrade the internals because they could massively reduce the current thick keyboards).
TalkAndroid anyone?
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TalkAndroid anyone?
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post #69 of 73
2/23/12 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yes, for all but writing I think a glass multi-touch surface is superior. Maybe there will be some kind of overlay to give a better touch experience? though the idea of an overlay seems wrong.

But I'm all for thinner. The travel on a new Apple keyboard almost seems excessive now that I also use the iPad a lot. Touch feed-back is nice but little is required to be enough. I'm favouring Kryptonite right now but my guess is that it would be a marketing own goal. People would just roll their eyes and put it down to ott marketing.

Well if you're in the market for a minimalistic multi-touch glass keyboard, then you could always check out this guy who has just had his project successfully funded on KickStarter!

ps. Sorry for the image size! Any pointers on how I resize it in vBulletin markup?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...oard-and-mouse


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post #70 of 73
2/23/12 at 10:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binex View Post

Well if you're in the market for a minimalistic multi-touch glass keyboard, then you could always check out this guy who has just had his project successfully funded on KickStarter!

It looks pretty cool. I read his description. He noted that it got a lot of interest in the medical community. I am guessing sanitary advantages over a more traditional keyboard design.
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post #71 of 73
2/24/12 at 11:30am
They make horrible keyboards and mice.

I can live with this though: http://netdna.webdesignerdepot.com/u...rokeyboard.jpg

I hate the new thin aluminum ones.

These feel right:

http://gbennett.whsites.net/zencart/...cts/M2452b.jpg

I hear this one is amazing (yet to try it):
http://matias.ca/tactilepro/

As for mice Microsoft makes great mice, followed by logitech. HATE all apple mice, this one was ok minus the mouse ball: http://7.mshcdn.com/wp-content/galle...575bddff_z.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Apple already makes the worst keyboards on the market. Now
they're doubling-down on bad. Sad.
http://www.savethexserve.com/
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post #72 of 73
2/24/12 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

I hear this one is amazing (yet to try it):

Amazing in that it's the first and only keyboard capable of containing an entire meal's worth of crumbs at once.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #73 of 73
2/24/12 at 3:39pm
Here's an idea: Don't eat on your desk or over your keyboard....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Amazing in that it's the first and only keyboard capable of containing an entire meal's worth of crumbs at once.
http://www.savethexserve.com/
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