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Motorola forces Apple to halt iCloud push services in Germany - Page 2

post #41 of 69
2/24/12 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple announced on Friday that it had shut down iCloud push services in Germany, explaining that the move was the direct result of a successful Motorola bid for an injunction against the cloud syncing service over data pushing technology.
...

I wonder if this had anything to do with the two hour iCloud, Siri, apple.com, and Apple forum outage we had yesterday.

Kind of funny how if things like this don't affect the US press, they are rarely mentioned.
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post #42 of 69
2/24/12 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

No cloud syncing for der Germans ... physically plug your iDevices in to your PC/Mac for the same effect.

As I understand it, it's not cloud syncing that is being banned but merely the use of push to do so. Change the settings to fetch and you are back in business.

As for the case, it is far from fully decided. There will be appeals etc and in the end the courts could find for Apple
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post #43 of 69
2/24/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

As I understand it, it's not cloud syncing that is being banned but merely the use of push to do so. Change the settings to fetch and you are back in business.

As for the case, it is far from fully decided. There will be appeals etc and in the end the courts could find for Apple

And that's certainly a possibility. Just like the injunction(s) that Apple has won, the patents themselves haven't been vetted yet. Are they even valid? Who knows. The German courts are less concerned with patent validity, at least in these injunction proceedings. That's why guys like Apple, Samsung, Moto, etc go to Germany to start stuff.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #44 of 69
2/24/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

Apple should have learned from Microsoft that licensing is the way to go. Nobody but the lawyers win in these situations.

We lack all the facts in the case. It is possible that Apple isn't actually using the same methods to achieve the goal and thus in appeal Motorola's case will be overturned. Or Apple could claim prior art or even simply have it invalidated on the grounds that Motorola's patent has no tech and thus Apple created something new by adding such a necessary feature as actual tech to fuel the mere idea.
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post #45 of 69
2/24/12 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

This stuff is getting so old. Everyone borrows, it is evident. Slide to unlock, yep Android "borrowed" it but what about iOS 5 "borrowing" Androids notification drop down? Who cares? These are all great features. Apple is not selling phones based on these small nuances, they sell because they have the best eco system on the planet. Android is not selling well because of these nuances, they sell because they are relatively inexpensive and highly customizable. Why can the consumer not win for a change?

Well said and I concur.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #46 of 69
2/24/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post

Meine iCloud ist Kaput!

Sorry that was lame....

Quick, somebody post a YouTube video of Hitler ranting about iCloud being turned off using that scene from The Downfall. (which is a terrific film if you've never seen it)
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #47 of 69
2/24/12 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quick, somebody post a YouTube video of Hitler ranting about iCloud being turned off using that scene from The Downfall. (which is a terrific film if you've never seen it)

I thought that was a scene from Valkyrie
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post #48 of 69
2/24/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

This stuff is getting so old. Everyone borrows, it is evident. Slide to unlock, yep Android "borrowed" it but what about iOS 5 "borrowing" Androids notification drop down? Who cares? These are all great features. Apple is not selling phones based on these small nuances, they sell because they have the best eco system on the planet. Android is not selling well because of these nuances, they sell because they are relatively inexpensive and highly customizable. Why can the consumer not win for a change?



Apple does not exist for you to win.

Apple exists to make money.
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post #49 of 69
2/24/12 at 12:26pm
Well, this is EXACTLY the same as Apple getting devices banned that use slide to unlock even though the new 4.0 devices actually use drag to unlock which operates quite different from slide to unlock.

Hopfully if Apple loses a few and wins a few, this will all get settled and all companies will have to go back to innovating rather than litigating to keep/grow market share....
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post #50 of 69
2/24/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Would the unimaginative please stop bringing up how the Neonode was not exactly the same as the iPhone. Neonode's slide-to-unlock achieves the exact same effect as iPhone's with exactly the same gesture, on-screen animation notwithstanding. If Apple's implementation would not work without the guiding image addition (like, if you couldn't unlock an iPhone without looking at it), then I'd accept that the addition is essential.

And why would you call the Neonode a POS? I'd say it was a pioneering device that, for the first time, combined a touchscreen phone, a music player, an Internet communication device, a camera, and a PIM. Mind you, this was several years before the iPhone, when technology simply did not allow for many of the features that we saw later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...8Crxf2s#t=130s

Would you read Apple's patent.

It specifically describes using an unlock image.

The Neonode did not have an unlock image.

Android manufacturers can make slide to unlock based on the neonode provided they don't use an unlock image.

The end.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #51 of 69
2/24/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netimoon View Post

For God's sake.......

If push is unavailable, does calendar & address book auto syncing not work?

Offhand, I don't think so. AFAIK, everything iCloud will still sync via fetch vs. push. You'd just have to make sure that your respective devices are set up to automatically sync otherwise your device will only be current after a manual sync. I'm not an IP expert or knowledgeable about the Moto patents but it makes me wonder if a workaround is to simply have the iCloud server "fetch" or scan for any changes on a Mac or wifi iPad/touch. Then, the auto sync on a cellular device (iPhone/iPad 3G) catches the changes and downloaded the updates.

Offhand, however, for anyone who was using the automatic email/exchange checks before iCloud and knows how to adjust the settings, functionally speaking, this may be a distinction without a difference. Yes, your updates will come "only" every 15 minutes but all the data and features are basically the same, even more so when you consider that many high bandwidth iCloud services only function via wifi (e.g., iOS backup).
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post #52 of 69
2/24/12 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Would you read Apple's patent.

It specifically describes using an unlock image.

The Neonode did not have an unlock image.

Android manufacturers can make slide to unlock based on the neonode provided they don't use an unlock image.

The end.

Well there you have it. The educated Dutch judge is incorrect. The experienced patent blogger Florian Mueller is incorrect. No further consideration is needed and patent reexamination by US or EU patent authorities would be of no value.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #53 of 69
2/24/12 at 2:52pm
(Expletive) Motorola.
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post #54 of 69
2/24/12 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Well there you have it. The educated Dutch judge is incorrect. The experienced patent blogger Florian Mueller is incorrect. No further consideration is needed and patent reexamination by US or EU patent authorities would be of no value.

Whether the Netherlands Judge's opinion is correct or incorrect is a matter of appeal.

He gave an OPINION as to whether a patent may be found to be invalid, he made no decision as to whether that patent actually IS invalid.

The End.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #55 of 69
2/24/12 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Whether the Netherlands Judge's opinion is correct or incorrect is a matter of appeal.

He gave an OPINION as to whether a patent may be found to be invalid, he made no decision as to whether that patent actually IS invalid.

The End.

Neither did Florian Mueller say the patent was invalid, but in his opinion it should be.
"The slide-to-unlock patent appears to be coming out on the losing end. . .
and for good reasons in my opinion."

Yet you made your statement as tho it was fact and not opinion.

It's not really that big a deal. I just think we should all be more careful about stating opinions so vehemently that they are taken as fact by some of the infrequent visitors. It happens fairly often that some poster will claim something to be true, yet when challenged has no evidence that it's true at all. Yet that claim might be repeated somewhere else based on the original mention implying it's factual.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #56 of 69
2/24/12 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Wouldn't it be awesome to have a phone that had all the best features of both major mobile phone OSes?

Possibly could have happened if Google had decided to collaborate instead of compete. Would have been an awesome combination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quick, somebody post a YouTube video of Hitler ranting about iCloud being turned off using that scene from The Downfall. (which is a terrific film if you've never seen it)

It was a great film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I thought that was a scene from Valkyrie

Suddenly Newton is correct. The original German title was 'Der Untergang'.

Bring us the girl, and wipe away the debt.

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Bring us the girl, and wipe away the debt.

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post #57 of 69
2/24/12 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Neither did Florian Mueller say the patent was invalid, but in his opinion it should be.
"The slide-to-unlock patent appears to be coming out on the losing end. . .
and for good reasons in my opinion."

Yet you made your statement as tho it was fact and not opinion.

It's not really that big a deal. I just think we should all be more careful about stating opinions so vehemently that they are taken as fact by some of the infrequent visitors. It happens fairly often that some poster will claim something to be true, yet when challenged has no evidence that it's true at all. Yet that claim might be repeated somewhere else based on the original mention implying it's factual.

The fact is Apple's patent specifies an unlock image.

The fact is Neonode's method did not use an unlock image.

The rest is opinion based.

The end.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #58 of 69
2/24/12 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The fact is Apple's patent specifies an unlock image.

The fact is Neonode's method did not use an unlock image.

In my opinion, that is not the deciding factor.

The end.
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post #59 of 69
2/24/12 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The fact is Apple's patent specifies an unlock image.

The fact is Neonode's method did not use an unlock image.

The rest is opinion based.

The end.

One of Samsung's other examples of prior art did. What is your opinion of Guitar Rig, who used an open/unlock image and also required the user to move his finger along a predetermined path and pre-dated Apple's version?.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #60 of 69
2/24/12 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Motorola is absolutely right to go after copycats.
Besides, iCloud absolutely sucks.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?
This has nothing to do with iCloud, it's totally unaffected by this action.
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post #61 of 69
2/24/12 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

We lack all the facts in the case. It is possible that Apple isn't actually using the same methods to achieve the goal and thus in appeal Motorola's case will be overturned. Or Apple could claim prior art or even simply have it invalidated on the grounds that Motorola's patent has no tech and thus Apple created something new by adding such a necessary feature as actual tech to fuel the mere idea.

And if any of those things happen, the money Motorola had to bond will be tapped and Apple's bank will bulge even more. A high stakes game for the loser, which smacks of being a desperate move.
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post #62 of 69
2/24/12 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Motorola is absolutely right to go after copycats.
Besides, iCloud absolutely sucks.

But for me it is magic.
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post #63 of 69
2/24/12 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

One of Samsung's other examples of prior art did. What is your opinion of Guitar Rig, who used an open/unlock image and also required the user to move his finger along a predetermined path and pre-dated Apple's version?.

Well perhaps you'd care to pass that on to the people who continually post the Neonode as an example.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #64 of 69
2/24/12 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Motorola has no choice but to enforce their IP!

Apple stole it.

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post #65 of 69
2/25/12 at 1:44am
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
Quick, somebody post a YouTube video of Hitler ranting about iCloud being turned off using that scene from The Downfall. (which is a terrific film if you've never seen it)

Not the same, but still funny: Angry German Kid Tries To Use MobileMe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ohaarB95IM
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post #66 of 69
2/25/12 at 1:41pm
Isn't this patent about those dang things we used to hang off our belts 30 years ago? You know, someone calls you, their number shows up on a tiny screen, then you scrambled to look for a phone, any phone (landline only) and called them back. What were they called? Beepers, bleepers, pagers? I thought pagers only existed in airports, those announcements "Will Mr So & So please... the rest is incoherent... "

Don't patents become obsolete?
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post #67 of 69
2/26/12 at 2:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

Isn't this patent about those dang things we used to hang off our belts 30 years ago? You know, someone calls you, their number shows up on a tiny screen, then you scrambled to look for a phone, any phone (landline only) and called them back. What were they called? Beepers, bleepers, pagers? I thought pagers only existed in airports, those announcements "Will Mr So & So please... the rest is incoherent... "

Don't patents become obsolete?

No those public announcements are useful for malls to... "Will the owner of the white Camry please move your car before I ram it up the back..."
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post #68 of 69
2/27/12 at 12:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

But for me it is magic.

It's definitely got potential, and since Eddie Cue has been more in charge at least on the iOS side of things, Apple's cloud offerings seem to be better.

I could be wrong, but I think Eddie Cue was previously "seconded" to focusing strongly on the iTunes Store, and I definitely did feel, of all Apple's online and cloud woes, iTunes Store has been going gangbusters for many years now. Hopefully now he'll bring all those skills to Apple's overall online and cloud stuff.
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post #69 of 69
2/27/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I thought Apple was using Exchange active sync, licensed from Microsoft who incidentally are suing Motorola over the same thing.

So what happens if you set your MobileMe/iCloud account as Exchange?

This is referring solely to the MobileMe push services, doesn't have anything to do with Exchange functionality or Google services functionality.
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