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Look Who's Lying NOW

post #1 of 169
Thread Starter 
U.S. Claims Syria has WMD stockpiles

Hmmm. And from the looney left? Silence.

Oh yes...of course it will be this: See, we KNOW Syria has weapons. We're really, really, really sure this time. We've got pictures and shit! Plus, Obama would never start a war over something like that.

So tell me, where are the "Our President is lying to us..." threads on Syria? On Iran? They don't exist. Because Obama's your guy.
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post #2 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

U.S. Claims Syria has WMD stockpiles

Hmmm. And from the looney left? Silence.

Oh yes...of course it will be this: See, we KNOW Syria has weapons. We're really, really, really sure this time. We've got pictures and shit! Plus, Obama would never start a war over something like that.

So tell me, where are the "Our President is lying to us..." threads on Syria? On Iran? They don't exist. Because Obama's your guy.

Our president lied to us about Libya and he is lying to us about Syria. Lots of us on the "looney left" have called him out on this. It's even on the fucking Huffington Post that Obama is wrong on this.
post #3 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Our president lied to us about Libya and he is lying to us about Syria. Lots of us on the "looney left" have called him out on this. It's even on the fucking Huffington Post that Obama is wrong on this.

No. Not "wrong." That's not what was said about Bush. And while we're at it, by your standards, shouldn't Obama be tried as a war criminal?
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post #4 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No. Not "wrong." That's not what was said about Bush. And while we're at it, by your standards, shouldn't Obama be tried as a war criminal?

I'm with that. Obama is pursuing exactly the same neocon path as BushCorp anyway. Try the lot of them for war crimes, lying to Congress, treason, mass murder, whatever.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #5 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

I'm with that. Obama is pursuing exactly the same neocon path as BushCorp anyway. Try the lot of them for war crimes, lying to Congress, treason, mass murder, whatever.

I could go for that. SDW?
post #6 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

U.S. Claims Syria has WMD stockpiles

Hmmm. And from the looney left? Silence.

Oh yes...of course it will be this: See, we KNOW Syria has weapons. We're really, really, really sure this time. We've got pictures and shit! Plus, Obama would never start a war over something like that.

So tell me, where are the "Our President is lying to us..." threads on Syria? On Iran? They don't exist. Because Obama's your guy.

You are making an analogy. To avoid an analogy flaw, one must demonstrate that the two things you are comparing are relevantly similar. Please provide that evidence of relevant similarity and I will happily participate in your thread and judge your argument on its merits. As it stands, it has no merits.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #7 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

U.S. Claims Syria has WMD stockpiles

Hmmm. And from the looney left? Silence.

Oh yes...of course it will be this: See, we KNOW Syria has weapons. We're really, really, really sure this time. We've got pictures and shit! Plus, Obama would never start a war over something like that.

So tell me, where are the "Our President is lying to us..." threads on Syria? On Iran? They don't exist. Because Obama's your guy.

Iran has weapons not Syria and your lousy republicans want us to get involved in another war with them as you are HAWKS and Love War.You make me SICK!
post #8 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I could go for that. SDW?

Want don't they put both Cheney and Bush on trial for the crimes they committed in declaring WMD for nothing in Iraq and getting us into a war for no dam reason.Their reason Money of course and power.
post #9 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I could go for that. SDW?

Of course you could.
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post #10 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I could go for that. SDW?

You'll try and vote for the same man come next November.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #11 of 169
Any chance Olbermann will go into a full throated rant about Obama's fascism?
post #12 of 169
When can we expect the Michael Moore movie to come out?
post #13 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

When can we expect the Michael Moore movie to come out?

I'm waiting for the MoveOn video contest where someone compares Obama to Hitler.
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post #14 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You are making an analogy. To avoid an analogy flaw, one must demonstrate that the two things you are comparing are relevantly similar. Please provide that evidence of relevant similarity and I will happily participate in your thread and judge your argument on its merits. As it stands, it has no merits.

Still waiting for the Republican circlejerk to end and for SDW to support his argument.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #15 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Still waiting for the Republican circlejerk to end and for SDW to support his argument.

Go play with yourself. Obviously no one here desires to cowtow to your weird little demands just to get you to stop threatening to take your ball and go home.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm waiting for the MoveOn video contest where someone compares Obama to Hitler.

Will that have funny subtitles?
post #17 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm waiting for the MoveOn video contest where someone compares Obama to Hitler.

You sound like a real dummy with this remark of yours.
post #18 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You sound like a real dummy with this remark of yours.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/bst...bush-to-hitler

Here's the direct link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpxmY...layer_embedded
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post #19 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Iran has weapons not Syria and your lousy republicans want us to get involved in another war with them as you are HAWKS and Love War.You make me SICK!

So Obama is lying, then?
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post #20 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You are making an analogy. To avoid an analogy flaw, one must demonstrate that the two things you are comparing are relevantly similar. Please provide that evidence of relevant similarity and I will happily participate in your thread and judge your argument on its merits. As it stands, it has no merits.

"Iraq has WMD"=Left goes bananas. Bushcorp is lying to start a war for oil. Bush is Hitler.

"Syria has WMD"=Left yawns.


How's that for a start?
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post #21 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

"Iraq has WMD"=Left goes bananas. Bushcorp is lying to start a war for oil. Bush is Hitler.

"Syria has WMD"=Left yawns.


How's that for a start?

Call me when he decides to invade a country without going through the usual channels and against the protest of many ( and the advice of the UN ). Obama isn't perfect and he's done plenty of things I don't agree with however he pales in comparison to the drunken coke sniffing frat boy. Also by the title of this thread I guess you're finally saying that Bush was lying!

All I can say is with your flurry of rediculous posts you must be really worried about the election. Well you should be.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #22 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Call me when he decides to invade a country without going through the usual channels and against the protest of many ( and the advice of the UN ).

Libya. Pakistan. Coming soon: Iran.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #23 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

"Iraq has WMD"=Left goes bananas. Bushcorp is lying to start a war for oil. Bush is Hitler.

"Syria has WMD"=Left yawns.


How's that for a start?

It's a pretty shitty start. Yes, that is the most superficial of relationships. Go deeper. Please explain how the two are RELEVANTLY similar.

Think of it this way. If you needed a blood transfusion and I were the doctor giving it to you, would you be OK with me giving you lobster blood? You have blood. A lobster has blood. How's that for a start? Unfortunately, that would be much too superficial of a relationship and your body wouldn't accept it as a match. At the surface, both do the same thing--transfer oxygen throughout the body. Except, lobsters have blue/green blood because they use copper to transport oxygen while our blood is red because we use iron. Our hemoglobin is bound within our blood cells. Lobster hemocyanin is suspended not in the cells but in the fluid of the blood itself.

See, two things can at the surface seem similar but it isn't enough to just jump from there and immediately claim they are relevantly similar for the purposes of your argument.

What was the situation like in Iraq during the lead up to war there? What's the situation in Syria now? Are they politically the same?

What was the situation like at home during the lead up to war there? What's the situation now? Are they politically, economically, and socially the same?

What was the history of WMD inspections like in Iraq during the lead up to war there? What's the recent history of WMD inspections in Syria? Are they the same?



Until you go deeper, you have nothing but a child's argument. Enjoy your lobster blood transfusion.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #24 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Libya. Pakistan. Coming soon: Iran.

He sent troops in to some small African country too. Drone strike in Yemen on US citizen.

Where's Code Pink with the Die In?


Oh wait it was about politics all along!
post #25 of 169
Yeah, because these things are exactly like Iraq and Afghanistan. Identical even.
post #26 of 169

Don't believe everything you see and hear on You Tube.
post #27 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Call me when he decides to invade a country without going through the usual channels

He did go through the usual channels.

Quote:
and against the protest of many ( and the advice of the UN ).

The UN doesn't give "advice."

Quote:
Obama isn't perfect and he's done plenty of things I don't agree with however he pales in comparison to the drunken coke sniffing frat boy. Also by the title of this thread I guess you're finally saying that Bush was lying!

Oh look! More double standards: Obama has admitted using cocaine. It's fine though, because he's Obama. Much better thana man who found God and stopped drinking completely. Yes, indeed.

Quote:

All I can say is with your flurry of rediculous posts you must be really worried about the election. Well you should be.

Ridiculous. With an "i." Good lord.
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post #28 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, because these things are exactly like Iraq and Afghanistan. Identical even.

That wasn't the question.

But you may be too busy being an apologist for the police state and war monger president to see this.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #29 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It's a pretty shitty start. Yes, that is the most superficial of relationships. Go deeper. Please explain how the two are RELEVANTLY similar.

Think of it this way. If you needed a blood transfusion and I were the doctor giving it to you, would you be OK with me giving you lobster blood? You have blood. A lobster has blood. How's that for a start? Unfortunately, that would be much too superficial of a relationship and your body wouldn't accept it as a match. At the surface, both do the same thing--transfer oxygen throughout the body. Except, lobsters have blue/green blood because they use copper to transport oxygen while our blood is red because we use iron. Our hemoglobin is bound within our blood cells. Lobster hemocyanin is suspended not in the cells but in the fluid of the blood itself.

Oh boy. That must have taken some effort. Well done.

Quote:

See, two things can at the surface seem similar but it isn't enough to just jump from there and immediately claim they are relevantly similar for the purposes of your argument.

What was the situation like in Iraq during the lead up to war there? What's the situation in Syria now? Are they politically the same?

No.

Quote:

What was the situation like at home during the lead up to war there? What's the situation now? Are they politically, economically, and socially the same?

Irrelevant.

Quote:

What was the history of WMD inspections like in Iraq during the lead up to war there? What's the recent history of WMD inspections in Syria? Are they the same?

You mean Iraq as in "the Iraq that used chemical weapons on its people and then failed to verifiably dispose of its remaining program?" That Iraq? And, you mean Syria as in "Syria, where the administration has presented no evidence of its WMD materials?" That Syria? Got it.

Quote:

Until you go deeper, you have nothing but a child's argument. Enjoy your lobster blood transfusion.

It's not complicated, BR. I realize you wish to make it complicated so that you can attempt to pick apart the comparison, but I'm not going to let that happen. You have an administration that claims Syria has WMD. True, they are not advocating military action as a result, but they make the claim either way. The same claim was made with Iraq, only there was much more evidence of its accuracy. The lefties went bananas with the Iraq claim, and now the lefties are silent. Bush responds to 9/11 by invading Afghanistan with congressional approval...left goes bananas. Obama attacks Libya without congressional consent, and the left is silent. Bush says "all options are on the table with Iran," the left goes bananas. Obama says the same, and the left is silent.

GO TEAM BLUE!
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post #30 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Libya. Pakistan. Coming soon: Iran.

Quote:
without going through the usual channels and against the protest of many

Not that I support any of this but not the same thing.

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post #31 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh boy. That must have taken some effort. Well done.



No.



Irrelevant.



You mean Iraq as in "the Iraq that used chemical weapons on its people and then failed to verifiably dispose of its remaining program?" That Iraq? And, you mean Syria as in "Syria, where the administration has presented no evidence of its WMD materials?" That Syria? Got it.



It's not complicated, BR. I realize you wish to make it complicated so that you can attempt to pick apart the comparison, but I'm not going to let that happen. You have an administration that claims Syria has WMD. True, they are not advocating military action as a result, but they make the claim either way. The same claim was made with Iraq, only there was much more evidence of its accuracy. The lefties went bananas with the Iraq claim, and now the lefties are silent. Bush responds to 9/11 by invading Afghanistan with congressional approval...left goes bananas. Obama attacks Libya without congressional consent, and the left is silent. Bush says "all options are on the table with Iran," the left goes bananas. Obama says the same, and the left is silent.

GO TEAM BLUE!

Quote:
You mean Iraq as in "the Iraq that used chemical weapons on its people and then failed to verifiably dispose of its remaining program?"

No I think he's talking about the Iraq that didn't have any WMD to invade over in 2003. And I'll give you this you weren't silent when Bush invaded. You were still claiming we'd still find WMD after we invaded but then guess what happened?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #32 of 169
By the way, you know who's lying now? Either that, or just plain blind (most likely willfully ignorant)? Any one of you who still claim that Obama is the 'most Liberal President ever'. Jeez... get a clue. Just get a clue.
post #33 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

By the way, you know who's lying now? Either that, or just plain blind (most likely willfully ignorant)? Any one of you who still claim that Obama is the 'most Liberal President ever'. Jeez... get a clue. Just get a clue.

I had a revelation recently, which may not be new to y'all. The centre-left in some ways dictates the actions of the right. Whenever a left government moves to the centre, the right has to either move quite strongly further right, or hold strong on centre-right, leading to the rise of extreme-right elements.

When the centre-left moves left and stays left, it's easy for the right to move to the centre-right and stay there.

Just an idea, proably a naive one.
post #34 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So Obama is lying, then?

Truthfully speaking I do not trust one politician. All of them lie and exaggerate the truth.Including Obama sometimes not always.
post #35 of 169
Please remember that when challenged about whether he can be sure that Iraq has WMD, SDW replied thus:

"Yes, I can be sure [there are WMD]. Anyone who is not an idiot can."

And now he's saying:

"Yes, I can be sure [Iran is trying to get nukes]. Anyone who is not an idiot can."

Yeah. Right. We'll trust you on this.

And nice use of the elitist tack there, SDW.
post #36 of 169
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No I think he's talking about the Iraq that didn't have any WMD to invade over in 2003. And I'll give you this you weren't silent when Bush invaded. You were still claiming we'd still find WMD after we invaded but then guess what happened?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Please remember that when challenged about whether he can be sure that Iraq has WMD, SDW replied thus:

"Yes, I can be sure [there are WMD]. Anyone who is not an idiot can."

And now he's saying:

"Yes, I can be sure [Iran is trying to get nukes]. Anyone who is not an idiot can."

Yeah. Right. We'll trust you on this.

And nice use of the elitist tack there, SDW.

Nice obfuscation...both of you. The issue is not whether Iraq actually ended up having WMD, nor if Syria ends up having the same. It's about reaction to being told that WMD exist. You're both exhibiting the very kind of double standard I'm referencing.
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post #37 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Nice obfuscation...both of you. The issue is not whether Iraq actually ended up having WMD, nor if Syria ends up having the same. It's about reaction to being told that WMD exist. You're both exhibiting the very kind of double standard I'm referencing.

So you're saying we're stupid for not trusting the respective administrations on these things? Seriously?
post #38 of 169
My tolerance for the incessant, pointless bickering between supporters of the establishment parties (Republicans and Democrats) has been decreasing as I continue to learn more about and embrace libertarian and voluntaryist philosophies.

From my perspective, it’s like 2 riders of a tandem bike - who occasionally trade seats on the bike - fighting with each other over who is responsible for leading them at full speed towards the edge of a cliff, all the while continuing to pedal and not braking or changing direction.

The truly frustrating and perplexing thing is that whenever someone manages to get their attention and suggests they use the breaks and change direction, they suddenly unite in condemning him, calling him a lunatic for even thinking such a thing. And all the while, the edge of the cliff draws nearer.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #39 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Nice obfuscation...both of you. The issue is not whether Iraq actually ended up having WMD, nor if Syria ends up having the same. It's about reaction to being told that WMD exist. You're both exhibiting the very kind of double standard I'm referencing.

Yes, the most superficial and flimsy of analogies. You have not established the situations as relevantly similar at all. Please, enjoy your lobster blood.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #40 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You are making an analogy. To avoid an analogy flaw, one must demonstrate that the two things you are comparing are relevantly similar. Please provide that evidence of relevant similarity and I will happily participate in your thread and judge your argument on its merits. As it stands, it has no merits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Iran has weapons not Syria and your lousy republicans want us to get involved in another war with them as you are HAWKS and Love War.You make me SICK!

So Sammy and Tonton condemn it. BR and marv go on about bad analogies and Republicans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It's a pretty shitty start. Yes, that is the most superficial of relationships. Go deeper. Please explain how the two are RELEVANTLY similar.

Think of it this way. If you needed a blood transfusion and I were the doctor giving it to you, would you be OK with me giving you lobster blood? You have blood. A lobster has blood. How's that for a start? Unfortunately, that would be much too superficial of a relationship and your body wouldn't accept it as a match. At the surface, both do the same thing--transfer oxygen throughout the body. Except, lobsters have blue/green blood because they use copper to transport oxygen while our blood is red because we use iron. Our hemoglobin is bound within our blood cells. Lobster hemocyanin is suspended not in the cells but in the fluid of the blood itself.

See, two things can at the surface seem similar but it isn't enough to just jump from there and immediately claim they are relevantly similar for the purposes of your argument.

What was the situation like in Iraq during the lead up to war there? What's the situation in Syria now? Are they politically the same?

What was the situation like at home during the lead up to war there? What's the situation now? Are they politically, economically, and socially the same?

What was the history of WMD inspections like in Iraq during the lead up to war there? What's the recent history of WMD inspections in Syria? Are they the same?

Until you go deeper, you have nothing but a child's argument. Enjoy your lobster blood transfusion.

No one can claim Syria has weapons because it is a bad analogy and is like lobster blood. Nice move there Charlie Sheen!!! Instead of arguing about bad analogies, can you address Syria? SDW addressed the fact that we sent troops to help in Libya. The rationale for Libya was much weaker than even possession of WMD's. It was merely claimed that their leader was a threat to his people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

He sent troops in to some small African country too. Drone strike in Yemen on US citizen.

Where's Code Pink with the Die In?

Oh wait it was about politics all along!

Indeed it was and will be about politics with the left. No more body counts, no allegations of creating worldwide hostility with our mere presence. It is pure hypocritical bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

By the way, you know who's lying now? Either that, or just plain blind (most likely willfully ignorant)? Any one of you who still claim that Obama is the 'most Liberal President ever'. Jeez... get a clue. Just get a clue.

Obama is acting exactly as a liberal president would act. He now clearly believes that a central world government coaltion ought to stick it's nose anywhere and everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

My tolerance for the incessant, pointless bickering between supporters of the establishment parties (Republicans and Democrats) has been decreasing as I continue to learn more about and embrace libertarian and voluntaryist philosophies.

From my perspective, its like 2 riders of a tandem bike - who occasionally trade seats on the bike - fighting with each other over who is responsible for leading them at full speed towards the edge of a cliff, all the while continuing to pedal and not braking or changing direction.

The truly frustrating and perplexing thing is that whenever someone manages to get their attention and suggests they use the breaks and change direction, they suddenly unite in condemning him, calling him a lunatic for even thinking such a thing. And all the while, the edge of the cliff draws nearer.

Well as we have discussed, if you can't persuade, if you can't reach critical mass, then there's no point in being correct. Declaring everyone else is wrong and an idiot might make one feel morally superior but stinks as the basis of a governing coalition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Yes, the most superficial and flimsy of analogies. You have not established the situations as relevantly similar at all. Please, enjoy your lobster blood.

#winning!!!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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