AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Afghanistan is on fire and it's raining gasoline
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Afghanistan is on fire and it's raining gasoline

post #1 of 50
2/26/12 at 9:09am
Thread Starter 
Heads up, everyone...Obama's next disaster (for which he will claim no responsibility) is here.

Afghan protests spread, Nato pulls advisors


Afghanistan's security situation is deteriorating. Obama's politically motivated troop level decisions have now put the entire effort in jeopardy. And from the President? Silence...unless he's talking about "drawing down." With Obama's leadership (or lack thereof), the U.S. will end up looking like the Soviet Union. We'll go home with our tail between our legs. Our efforts will be remembered not for driving the Taliban from power, securing the nation, building infrastructure and attacking terrorists, but as another foreign invader who was driven out.

It could have been different. Had Obama given the military what it needed and not been committed to his Timetable for Defeat, the clear and hold strategy would have worked. Instead, he's continuing his Apology Tour® (now playing in Washington, D.C.!) and provoking more, not less violence.
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
post #2 of 50
2/26/12 at 11:38am
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Compared to Bush, Obama is even more warlike and has had a much more successful war record. Stuff like this happened every day with Bush.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #3 of 50
2/26/12 at 2:16pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Don't put good money after bad. We could completely fund NASA with under a week of spending in Afghanistan. We could fix our own crumbling infrastructure, and still lower taxes, with another year of spending in Afghanistan.

We also could stop shipping coffins home. That's even more important. We should not be letting our service men and women die abroad like this. This is my generation's Vietnam.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #4 of 50
2/27/12 at 5:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Don't put good money after bad. We could completely fund NASA with under a week of spending in Afghanistan. We could fix our own crumbling infrastructure, and still lower taxes, with another year of spending in Afghanistan.

And we could everyone free cars if we reduced non-defense spending by 25%. Neither will happen.

Quote:

We also could stop shipping coffins home. That's even more important. We should not be letting our service men and women die abroad like this.

Dude, it's the military. Service men and women are going to die abroad. It's tragic, but risk is part of the mission. Running away now would just mean a waste of blood and treasure.

Quote:

This is my generation's Vietnam.

Oh, stop. It's not even close to Vietnam. It's an entirely different situation. We had 500,000 troops in Vietnam. We carpet bombed. We lost 500-700 men a month in Vietnam. Ironically, one area of similarity is that the military likely could have won in Vietnam if it was allowed to. Instead, political interference and poor strategy caused the disaster. So keep at it...maybe you'll get your wish.
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
post #5 of 50
2/27/12 at 11:02am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Are you willing to go to Afghanistan and fight?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #6 of 50
3/6/12 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Are you willing to go to Afghanistan and fight?

Are you saying that anyone who takes a position on a military issue has to be willing (and able) to personally enlist?
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
post #7 of 50
3/6/12 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Are you saying that anyone who takes a position on a military issue has to be willing (and able) to personally enlist?

Actually, I don't think that would be unfair or unreasonable standard to hold people to who hold the view that we should go to war and send others to war.

Similarly, I think those calling for higher taxes should make sure they are not taking any deductions and even paying more voluntarily. And those demanding "free" healthcare for everyone, should demonstrate their devotion to this cause by first voluntarily give their time and money to pay for healthcare of those around them.

And so on.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #8 of 50
3/6/12 at 1:36pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
It's easy to send others to fight and die for causes you believe in. Yes, you should very much be willing to fight in a war you support.

Of course, MJ then has to take this and attempt to extend it to taxes again, ignoring the entire idea behind a social safety net. Let's just agree on the war part and not insert this other nonsense into the current argument.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #9 of 50
3/6/12 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Of course, MJ then has to take this and attempt to extend it to taxes again

Of course. I feel if we want to apply these principles consistently then the examples I gave are perfectly appropriate. You may not, but then this only reveals your hypocrisy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

ignoring the entire idea behind a social safety net.

Don't be silly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Let's just agree on the war part and not insert this other nonsense into the current argument.

Because it's inconvenient for you?

Nonsense? Begging the question again I see.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #10 of 50
3/6/12 at 1:46pm
Stop being so consistent, MJ1970.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #11 of 50
3/6/12 at 1:59pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
No, it's MJ making a false analogy and then being super arrogant and self-congratulatory about it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #12 of 50
3/6/12 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, it's MJ making a false analogy and then being super arrogant and self-congratulatory about it.

What's false about the comparison?

War proponent: Ought to be willing to go to war themselves before* willing to send others to war.

Free healthcare proponent: Ought to be willing to pay for someone else's healthcare before demanding that others do the same.

Higher tax proponent: Ought to be willing to give more of their own money to the government before demanding that more be taken from others.

And so on.

This is simply a consistent application of the base principle that if you advocate for something, you ought to be willing to do it yourself first.

I can't help it that you statists are such inconsistent hypocrites.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #13 of 50
3/6/12 at 3:18pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Again, suddenly I see the word "before" showing up in the second two examples when it's not in the first. That changes the meaning. False analogy. Unless you are saying that before we go to war with Iran, SDW must go to Iran, fight, and possibly die.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #14 of 50
3/6/12 at 4:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Actually, I don't think that would be unfair or unreasonable standard to hold people to who hold the view that we should go to war and send others to war.

Similarly, I think those calling for higher taxes should make sure they are not taking any deductions and even paying more voluntarily. And those demanding "free" healthcare for everyone, should demonstrate their devotion to this cause by first voluntarily give their time and money to pay for healthcare of those around them.

And so on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It's easy to send others to fight and die for causes you believe in. Yes, you should very much be willing to fight in a war you support.

Of course, MJ then has to take this and attempt to extend it to taxes again, ignoring the entire idea behind a social safety net. Let's just agree on the war part and not insert this other nonsense into the current argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Again, suddenly I see the word "before" showing up in the second two examples when it's not in the first. That changes the meaning. False analogy. Unless you are saying that before we go to war with Iran, SDW must go to Iran, fight, and possibly die.


I'm not sure I completely agree with MJ on the tax issue. I do disagree with both of you on the war issue. First, it's clear that you're just using it as a cheap debate tactic. Secondly, your position is unrealistic. Our own President did not serve, and he's the one making the actual decisions on putting troops in harm's way. Third, your position is predicated on oversimplification. Is every person cutout to be a soldier? Is that the best use of every person's talents? If there was a draft, would everyone be handed a M-16 and a ration pack and told to go kick ass? Is every person medically qualified to enlist? Of course not.
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
post #15 of 50
3/6/12 at 4:16pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm not sure I completely agree with MJ on the tax issue. I do disagree with both of you on the war issue. First, it's clear that you're just using it as a cheap debate tactic.

I do not concede that any such thing is clear. You are making an assertion. Support it with evidence.

Quote:
Secondly, your position is unrealistic.

Mandatory service. Many countries have it.

Quote:
Our own President did not serve, and he's the one making the actual decisions on putting troops in harm's way.

I would pose to him the same question, though. Would he be willing to go there himself? Would he be willing to send his children there? If you wouldn't do either of those, then you have no business sending others to die.

Quote:
Third, your position is predicated on oversimplification. Is every person cutout to be a soldier? Is that the best use of every person's talents? If there was a draft, would everyone be handed a M-16 and a ration pack and told to go kick ass? Is every person medically qualified to enlist? Of course not.

If you were qualified, would you personally go?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #16 of 50
3/6/12 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm not sure I completely agree with MJ on the tax issue. I do disagree with both of you on the war issue.

So you think it's okay to ask or even compel others do things that you can or would not?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

First, it's clear that you're just using it as a cheap debate tactic.

Wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Our own President did not serve, and he's the one making the actual decisions on putting troops in harm's way.

Yes. Maybe that's part of the problem. We've now had three presidents in a row that have not even served in the military, let alone war, casually deploying troops and lobbing bombs whenever and wherever they want to. Just like we have politicians spending money that isn't theirs and borrowing money they'll never live to repay.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #17 of 50
3/6/12 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Maybe that's part of the problem.

Are you kidding me? Kerry might have had a better approach, but McCain would have been blowing shit (and people) up left and right. Having personally served in the military is of absolutely no benefit for the President of the United States. There's no way it indicates a saner military policy.
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 50
3/6/12 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Are you kidding me? Kerry might have had a better approach, but McCain would have been blowing shit (and people) up left and right. Having personally served in the military is of absolutely no benefit for the President of the United States. There's no way it indicates a saner military policy.

That's not really where I was going. Granted we have a lot of certifiable chicken hawks (elected, appointed and self-appointed) spouting off. But what I mean is that if our illustrious leaders had to actually fight in these wars they were starting rather than sitting back in the comfort of their offices (elliptical or otherwise), maybe we'd have fewer wars.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #19 of 50
3/7/12 at 3:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Heads up, everyone...Obama's next disaster (for which he will claim no responsibility) is here.

Afghan protests spread, Nato pulls advisors


Afghanistan's security situation is deteriorating. Obama's politically motivated troop level decisions have now put the entire effort in jeopardy. And from the President? Silence...unless he's talking about "drawing down." With Obama's leadership (or lack thereof), the U.S. will end up looking like the Soviet Union. We'll go home with our tail between our legs. Our efforts will be remembered not for driving the Taliban from power, securing the nation, building infrastructure and attacking terrorists, but as another foreign invader who was driven out.

It could have been different. Had Obama given the military what it needed and not been committed to his Timetable for Defeat, the clear and hold strategy would have worked. Instead, he's continuing his Apology Tour® (now playing in Washington, D.C.!) and provoking more, not less violence.

You lousy war monger! That is all you hawks know is WAR !
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 50
3/8/12 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Are you saying that anyone who takes a position on a military issue has to be willing (and able) to personally enlist?

What happened ?
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 50
3/11/12 at 12:06pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Can we please GET THE FUCK OUT OF THAT COUNTRY before we cause any more harm?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #22 of 50
3/12/12 at 4:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Don't put good money after bad. We could completely fund NASA with under a week of spending in Afghanistan. We could fix our own crumbling infrastructure, and still lower taxes, with another year of spending in Afghanistan.

We also could stop shipping coffins home. That's even more important. We should not be letting our service men and women die abroad like this. This is my generation's Vietnam.

It is time to get out!Our economy is shrinking with this dumb ass war we are in still.I agree with you about building up our roads and bridges also.
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 50
3/12/12 at 10:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I do not concede that any such thing is clear. You are making an assertion. Support it with evidence.

Evidence that you use such statements to obfuscate? Ha.

Quote:


Mandatory service. Many countries have it.

We don't.

Quote:

I would pose to him the same question, though. Would he be willing to go there himself? Would he be willing to send his children there? If you wouldn't do either of those, then you have no business sending others to die.

I disagree. Not everyone has to be a soldier. We have a civilian controlled military. Besides, what does "willing" mean? What do you mean "send his children?"

Quote:


If you were qualified, would you personally go?

I'm really not sure, because I'm not qualified (I'm 36, I've had two back surgeries and have spinal stenosis/ disc degeneration). I suppose if I were ten years younger and didn't have back problems, and if I felt that the best way I could serve would be to enlist, yes...I'd go. But that's the real rub...the evaluation of where I'd be the most help. I'm a college-educated musician and teacher (as I was when I was 24/25). Is it really productive and necessary for someone like that to enlist and pick up a rifle? In the all-volunteer armed forces we have today, it's not the best use of that person's abilities.

Now, if we're talking selective service, that's different. I really doubt I'd be eligible now, but if I was and I was called, I'd absolutely go. No question.
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
post #24 of 50
3/12/12 at 11:36am
What are we doing there anyway.. and why? Motivation, motivation, motivation.


Opium production in Afghanistan in 2001 was decimated to near zero by the Taliban's anti-drug measures... and was quickly restored after the coalition invasion of November 2001.

Then there was the issue of the projected Unocal pipeline from the Caspian to the Indian Ocean oil terminals.. and the Taliban was playing hardball... "which did not go down all that well".....

Then, we got the issue of Afghanistan's huge and largely unexploited mineral wealth. Did the Taliban have the means, and the motivation to exploit these resources on their own? No way.... huge foreign investment was essential.. and that required a western friendly government.

Just prior to the invasion, the Taliban dynamited the Bamiyan Buddha statues. For some reason that eludes logic, the US (and European) corporate media jumped onto this story with the same degree of fervor that characterizes coverage of a royal wedding or the Academy Awards... except this Bamiyan Buddha issue was all over the headlines for weeks. This was out of pattern: since when did the desecration of a group of obscure archeological artifacts in the mountains of a remote part of a country, 10,000 miles away, that 80% of Americans were unable to locate on a global map .. suddenly become a hugely newsworthy item... and since when did the US powers that be give two shits about Buddhist relics? Gimme a break already.

This story was all about the relentless demonizing of the Taliban, and the effect on the national psyche. Before the Bamiyan incident the Taliban was an obscure group of religious extremists... mention the Taliban to Joe Public and the chances were that a 'glassy eyed stare' would be forthcoming. After the Bamiyan media blitz, the Taliban were Public Enemy Number One. This just one more factor to prime and soften the US (and world) public, in the support for the already planned invasion of Afghanistan. Saving Buddhist statues? Yeah, right. Puhlease....

Then there was that issue of planes hitting buildings in NYC and DC, and the instant linking of such with Afghanistan .... timing.

Follow the money. OIL, DRUGS, MINERALS, WAR.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #25 of 50
3/12/12 at 12:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

What are we doing there anyway.. and why? Motivation, motivation, motivation.


Opium production in Afghanistan in 2001 was decimated to near zero by the Taliban's anti-drug measures... and was quickly restored after the coalition invasion of November 2001.

Then there was the issue of the projected Unocal pipeline from the Caspian to the Indian Ocean oil terminals.. and the Taliban was playing hardball... "which did not go down all that well".....

Then, we got the issue of Afghanistan's huge and largely unexploited mineral wealth. Did the Taliban have the means, and the motivation to exploit these resources on their own? No way.... huge foreign investment was essential.. and that required a western friendly government.

Just prior to the invasion, the Taliban dynamited the Bamiyan Buddha statues. For some reason that eludes logic, the US (and European) corporate media jumped onto this story with the same degree of fervor that characterizes coverage of a royal wedding or the Academy Awards... except this Bamiyan Buddha issue was all over the headlines for weeks. This was out of pattern: since when did the desecration of a group of obscure archeological artifacts in the mountains of a remote part of a country, 10,000 miles away, that 80% of Americans were unable to locate on a global map .. suddenly become a hugely newsworthy item... and since when did the US powers that be give two shits about Buddhist relics? Gimme a break already.

This story was all about the relentless demonizing of the Taliban, and the effect on the national psyche. Before the Bamiyan incident the Taliban was an obscure group of religious extremists... mention the Taliban to Joe Public and the chances were that a 'glassy eyed stare' would be forthcoming. After the Bamiyan media blitz, the Taliban were Public Enemy Number One. This just one more factor to prime and soften the US (and world) public, in the support for the already planned invasion of Afghanistan. Saving Buddhist statues? Yeah, right. Puhlease....

Then there was that issue of planes hitting buildings in NYC and DC, and the instant linking of such with Afghanistan .... timing.

Follow the money. OIL, DRUGS, MINERALS, WAR.

There's no question that protecting oil resources and perhaps mineral resources is part of "stabilization" so to speak. But where you go too far is in implying that the U.S. somehow wants opium production up and that it is a major reason for our troops to be there. Come on.

The other part where you've gone off the deep end is this:
Quote:
This story was all about the relentless demonizing of the Taliban, and the effect on the national psyche.

They don't require much demonization. They were an oppressive regime who harbored Al Qaeda...and still are.
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
post #26 of 50
3/12/12 at 1:26pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
What's also oppressive? Passing a law that requires women to be raped by their doctors if they want abortions. Thanks, Virginia Taliban.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #27 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What's also oppressive? Passing a law that requires women to be raped by their doctors if they want abortions. Thanks, Virginia Taliban.

I'm afraid you've ceded any moral high ground you might have had and any right to righteous indignation on the subject of what women can and can't do with their own bodies in the face of government force when you started advocating mandatory vaccinations.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #28 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:11pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Non sequitur! Unnecessary medical procedure, that by the letter of the law is rape by instrument, aimed to shame women into not having an abortion is not the same as promoting herd immunity to diseases that can kill through vaccinations.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #29 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Non sequitur! Unnecessary medical procedure, that by the letter of the law is rape by instrument, aimed to shame women into not having an abortion is not the same as promoting herd immunity to diseases that can kill through vaccinations.

Your counter argument might carry some weight if a) we weren't discussing vaccinations for non-casually communicable diseases (HPV) that are very effectively dealt with by other means with much lower risk and only affected a very small number of people, and b) on any other vaccine we were even close to diving below the theoretical (and possibly mythical) herd-immunity levels.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #30 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:37pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Mythical? Really? Says you? The evolution denier? You're a waste of time. Even if I were to concede your ridiculous point, which I DON'T, being wrong in one area does not make you wrong in all areas. State-instituted rape by instrument is a completely different issue. You are just playing dirty politics to conflate them.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #31 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Mythical? Really? Says you?

Nope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You're a waste of time.

Apparently not...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

State-instituted rape by instrument is a completely different issue. You are just playing dirty politics to conflate them.

Really? Says you?

The both go to the fundamental issue of what and who can force someone to do something with their own body. That you are unwilling to see the connective tissue between these issues speaks volumes.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #32 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:51pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Putting a needle in an arm for clear medical benefit.

Putting a 10" rod in a vagina for no medical benefit.

Oh, you're right. They are totally connected. Backwards anti-science folks will be unable to discern the differences between them.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #33 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Putting a needle in an arm for clear medical benefit and possibly great risks.

tftfy


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Putting a needle in an arm for clear medical benefit.

Putting a 10" rod in a vagina for no medical benefit.

Oh, you're right. They are totally connected.

As I said, if you're unwilling to see how these issues are connected, it speaks volumes about your hypocrisy on the subject of people having a right to chose what to do or not do with their own bodies.

But then I forgot...with you the government is paramount...the ultimate authority...essentially the secular god.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #34 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:55pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
What speaks volumes is you commenting on science issues at all when you deny science in the first place. Keep your superstition out of my government.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #35 of 50
3/12/12 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What speaks volumes is you commenting on science issues at all when you deny science in the first place.

I don't deny science at all. That's your first error.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Keep your superstition out of my government.

Thanks for revealing your true colors here.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #36 of 50
3/12/12 at 3:00pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Oh, so you acknowledge that evolution is the legitimate backbone of biology? That no biology makes sense without it? That it has been tried, tested, and confirmed with a plethora of experiments and mountains of evidence?

You don't believe in the social contract, either. I'm simply using the appropriate terms as not to include you in something you don't want to be a part of.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #37 of 50
3/12/12 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Oh, so you acknowledge that the evolution is the legitimate backbone of biology? That no biology makes sense without it? That it has been tried, tested, and confirmed without a plethora of experiments and mountains of evidence?

No. I said I don't deny science. I can't help it if you continue to conflate all of evolution's claims with science.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #38 of 50
3/12/12 at 3:03pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
See, not worth talking to you. Stay out of science issues. You are literally useless to society in that regard.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #39 of 50
3/12/12 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You don't believe in the social contract, either.

True. This is an invention of big government advocates, like yourself, to rationalize their authoritarians tendencies.

But it is amusing that an anti-religious bigot, like you, who condemns people for believing in a God whose existence you claim cannot be proven is such a strong believer in something as abstract, ambiguous and amorphous as the so-called "social-contract." Not to mention a denouncer of those who don't share your belief.

Ironic.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #40 of 50
3/12/12 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

See, not worth talking to you.

All the evidence you're providing appears to be disproving this claim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Stay out of science issues.

I won't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You are literally useless to society in that regard.

Thanks for sharing your opinion about me.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Afghanistan is on fire and it's raining gasoline