or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Cheap Android phones 'crushing' Apple's iPhone in countries without subsidies
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cheap Android phones 'crushing' Apple's iPhone in countries without subsidies - Page 2

post #41 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Southern European countries are not poor, they are all in the top 10% in the world.

You're thinking of Spain and Italy, don't forget all the countries to the South East of Europe.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #42 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There is no way for anyone outside Apple to know the "true cost".

Yes, it helps to keep things mysterious, but the profit margins say a lot.
post #43 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

OK. Now, all you have to do is show us your resume and point out where you have experience that indicates that you know how to run Apple better than the existing Board and management team.

Typical fanboy sneering nonsense. I always hear you as sounding a bit like comic book guy.

I am not saying I could run Apple better than the existing incumbents ( although I have worked in Cupertino and have demoed on campus there to Employees, and know about 20-30 people who work there). What I am saying that the existing incumbents are interested in market share, and they keep saying they are ( like for instance Cook's mention of the 95% yet to be decided in the smart phone war) .

Here is what the actual CEO, not some muppet on the internet had to say

A: 37 million is a big number. It was a decent quarter. It was 37 million — more than we’d ever done before. We were pretty happy with that, but let me give you the way I look at the numbers. As I see it, that 37 million for last quarter represented 24% of the smartphone market. There’s 3 out of 4 people buying something else. 9 out of 10 phone buyers are buying something else.

Handset market is projected to go from 1.5 to 2 billion units. Take it in the context of these numbers, the truth is that this is a jaw-dropping industry with enormous opportunity. Up against those numbers, the numbers don’t seem so large anymore. What seems so large to me is the opportunity.


So if you think you can run the place better than Cook, jump up on stage and tell him to go fuck himself with his market share concerns, you want Margins.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #44 of 109
Need be Apple could just go and buy some countries. Put all that cash in the bank to good use!:

lol:
post #45 of 109
Steve jobs has spoken about this before.

This video is talking about computers... but you can easily translate this philosophy to all of their products:

"Our goal is the make the best personal computers in the world, and to make products we are proud to recommend to our family and friends. But there is some stuff in our industry that we wouldn't be proud to ship. We can't do it... we just can't ship junk" - Steve Jobs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...8gnUCWzE#t=32s
post #46 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Steve jobs has spoken about this before.

This video is talking about computers... but you can easily translate this philosophy to all of their products:

"Our goal is the make the best personal computers in the world, and to make products we are proud to recommend to our family and friends. But there is some stuff in our industry that we wouldn't be proud to ship. We can't do it... we just can't ship junk" - Steve Jobs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...8gnUCWzE#t=32s

This is a strawman argument, the iPod touch is not junk. For its price it is a fantastic machine.

the 3GS is pretty great too.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #47 of 109
Quote:
Greece's top-selling smartphone last year was the Samsung Galaxy Mini, which sells for just $188 without a contract. For comparison, an older model 8-gigabyte iPhone 4 sells new for $680 without a subsidy in Portugal.

Come on. If you're going to make comparisons, make comparisons using the same criteria, otherwise you're not making much of a comparison. Use Greece for both or use Portugal for both. I'm not questioning the fact that Android is crushing the iPhone in countries without subsidies. I'm saying the comparison used above is poor.
post #48 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

This is a strawman argument, the iPod touch is not junk. For its price it is a fantastic machine.

Indeed. In a perfect world, Apple would make an iPod Touch with a mic, 8 megapixel camera and at least 3G. I'd buy that instead of an iPhone (assuming I could get a data plan for it, which is of course doubtful).

With services like Google Voice, how much longer are we going to need "phones"?
post #49 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhromeror View Post

Need be Apple could just go and buy some countries. Put all that cash in the bank to good use!:

lol:

Would you believe - the Egyptians have so badly screwed up their only significant source of foreign money inflow - tourism - that the government's cash reserve is down to its last $12 billion? But who would want to buy 'em?

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

Reply

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

Reply
post #50 of 109
Android will be the smartphone OS of choice in the 3rd World. And if you checked recently, nowadays that includes Greece.
post #51 of 109
There is a huge revenue potential for selling PAYG (non-contract) phones in the emerging markets like China, India, Brazil and Russia. Together they account for almost half the world's population. I don't think Apple will want to walk away from that. They don't have to build a "crap" product - just keep the iPhone 3GS and lower the price to an acceptable level for the PAYG smartphone market. Even if they just target the emerging middle class in those countries thats still a lot of money to be made.
post #52 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

This is a strawman argument, the iPod touch is not junk. For its price it is a fantastic machine.

the 3GS is pretty great too.

You're right... because Apple doesn't ship junk. I thought that was pretty clear.

The iPod Touch is the best MP3 player out there. And I'd choose the iPhone 3GS over any other cheap phone out there.

My point was... and that lots of other people in this thread have pointed out... is that there are lots of people buying cheap unsubsidized phones in some of the poorer countries in the world.

Apple doesn't want to... or need to... compete in that segment of the market.
post #53 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The Touch has a lower margin than the iPhone but the Touch also has fewer and less expensive components.

For instance, people think the Touch and iPhone have the same display because they both have 960x480 3.5" "Retina Displays" but we know that the iPhone uses an IPS panel and the Touch a TN panel. Then there is quality of the backlight, the speed of the NAND flash, the A4 CPU, RAM, speaker, mic, vibrator, battery, GPS, cellular HW, and on and on and on...

No comparison with sound and picture quality between iPhone 4S and iPod Touch. iPod Touch is great for the price, but not surprised iPhone is more expensive.
post #54 of 109
Apple could do a very mild tweak to the 3GS (upgrade the camera some, increase speed slightly, etc... but keep the same exact form factor), price it at $275 for the pre-paid market, and still make 35% margin

Next issue please

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

Reply

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

Reply
post #55 of 109
As people have said – Steve: "We won't ship junk."

IE apple does not care about the low end markets. Let Android have them, no big deal. It will just re-enforce the perspective that Android is generic and iOS is premium. (I'm not saying that's a fact, but over time, this works out worse for Android in terms of quality of brand then it does for apple)
post #56 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Typical fanboy sneering nonsense. I always hear you as sounding a bit like comic book guy.

I am not saying I could run Apple better than the existing incumbents ( although I have worked in Cupertino and have demoed on campus there to Employees, and know about 20-30 people who work there). What I am saying that the existing incumbents are interested in market share, and they keep saying they are ( like for instance Cook's mention of the 95% yet to be decided in the smart phone war) .

Here is what the actual CEO, not some muppet on the internet had to say

A: 37 million is a big number. It was a decent quarter. It was 37 million more than wed ever done before. We were pretty happy with that, but let me give you the way I look at the numbers. As I see it, that 37 million for last quarter represented 24% of the smartphone market. Theres 3 out of 4 people buying something else. 9 out of 10 phone buyers are buying something else.

Handset market is projected to go from 1.5 to 2 billion units. Take it in the context of these numbers, the truth is that this is a jaw-dropping industry with enormous opportunity. Up against those numbers, the numbers dont seem so large anymore. What seems so large to me is the opportunity.


So if you think you can run the place better than Cook, jump up on stage and tell him to go fuck himself with his market share concerns, you want Margins.

Let's see if we can make sense of your twisted logic:

You say that you aren't claiming to know more about running Apple than the management team - yet you keep saying that they're doing it wrong and should do something different.

OTOH, I say that the management team should be left alone to make the decisions that they clearly know how to make - and you accuse me of thinking I can run the place better than Apple.

Nope. There's no way that I can make sense of your twisted logic.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #57 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

There is a huge revenue potential for selling PAYG (non-contract) phones in the emerging markets like China, India, Brazil and Russia. Together they account for almost half the world's population. I don't think Apple will want to walk away from that. They don't have to build a "crap" product - just keep the iPhone 3GS and lower the price to an acceptable level for the PAYG smartphone market. Even if they just target the emerging middle class in those countries thats still a lot of money to be made.

Wouldnt be surprised if Apple lowers the entry price for China Mobile by using the display in the iPod Touch. This is beauty of their size and home grown cellular tech.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #58 of 109
Would that be crushing in terms of units sold, or in terms of profits earned?
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #59 of 109
Cheap product = users get a poor device and the company gets little profit. Id rather be crushed!

(As for $250 Windows laptops... I recommended one to an out-of-work friend. Never again. Its Russian Roulette just how bag the experience will be... does it run slow and have a bad viewing angle, but at least last you a while? Or does it just die, one part after another, almost immediately so you spend your warranty period losing data and fighting to get service... until it dies again after the warranty ends? My friend has a doorstopcomplete with virusesand $250 down the drain. Shed rather use a rock as a doorstop and file the $250 away for a MacBook Air. And how many of those $250 units do you have to buy in 10 years, vs. how many $999+ MacBook Airs? And whats the resale value like on them vs. the Airs? And the support costs? Almost everyone I know who uses Windows pays $100 plus at least once a year to get their system working again or cleaned of malware. Theyre not tech-savvy like us, but were not the majority. They pay MORE in the end with their cheap PCs that need frequent replacement and cant be sold. And then they have a machine theyre afraid of and hate. But would they consider Apple? Many never would. Go figure.)
post #60 of 109
what a brilliant insight! cheap phones sell tops in the cheap phone markets!! and no one buys an iPhone as a "burner." wow, who woulda thought.
post #61 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Almost everyone I know who uses Windows pays $100 plus at least once a year to get their system working again or cleaned of malware. Theyre not tech-savvy like us, but were not the majority. They pay MORE in the end with their cheap PCs that need frequent replacement and cant be sold. And then they have a machine theyre afraid of and hate. But would they consider Apple? Many never would. Go figure.)

You need to hang out with a different sort of people.
post #62 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Let's see if we can make sense of your twisted logic:

You say that you aren't claiming to know more about running Apple than the management team - yet you keep saying that they're doing it wrong and should do something different.

No I didn't. I did suggest that they make the 3GS cheaper, which they already have done and will continue to do. This is the kind of wish list which gets said on Apple Insider, and which the site is here for. Stuff like "I wish the iPhone had NFC", or "I wish the iPhone had a larger screen". It isn't an ex cathedra instruction to management of Apple who probably aren't reading.

Quote:
OTOH, I say that the management team should be left alone to make the decisions that they clearly know how to make - and you accuse me of thinking I can run the place better than Apple.

Nope. There's no way that I can make sense of your twisted logic.

Saying the management should be "left alone to do what they want" is to curtail all discussion on Apple's market strategy. However if they say there are interested in market share it makes no sense to say they are not interested in market share.

The discussion here is on the fact that Apple is getting spanked in the pre-paid market. There are two responses to this.

1) The less popular response ( on AI): Apple needs a lower priced model.
3) The more popular response - Apple doesn't care, its got LOADSAMONEY!


You ( and others) say that Apple are not interested in market share. I post a link from the CEO saying he is very very interested in market share and thinks the 37M is just the beginning, that there is a 2B unit per year market out there. Thats not an instruction to management, it is a reference on what they themselves say, it is a clear refutal of the argument to profit matters above all else.

Apple does care about market share, ( and it also cares about margins), hence we can dicsuss what they have to do to get traction in the pre-paid market which is most of the 90% which Tim Cook is eying.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #63 of 109
Who cares about cheap android phones they are cheap. Poor people with cheap phones does not equal vertical sales.

These are people that buy the $5 fake cases on the street, download only free apps with malware, and play pirated media. Why should Apple care.
post #64 of 109
OMG. Sales of cubic zirconia are crushing diamond sales. It's time to panic.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #65 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision33r View Post

Who cares about cheap android phones they are cheap. Poor people with cheap phones does not equal vertical sales.

These are people that buy the $5 fake cases on the street, download only free apps with malware, and play pirated media. Why should Apple care.


It could be true that poor people don't buy apps, or are not much use to advertisers, or it could be that the market is commoditizing - and relatively middle class people don't want to pay contract rates to carriers. I was on pre-paid in my time.

Heres a fact, people on pre-paid - prior to the modern smartphone age - used to download £3 ringtones all the time.

We don't know what the market is here. It could be poor, or it could be cheap, or it could be bargin hunters. If smart phones commoditise it doesn't mean that software isn't bought.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #66 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

No. Consumers do not "pay much less than that". Consumers pay more than that if they go with a contract - they pay much less up front but essentially what they've done is taken out a high-interest loan from their carrier and used it to pay Apple for the phone.

Because Apple is the only smart phone vendor to have a 2 year contract.

/s
post #67 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

No I didn't. I did suggest that they make the 3GS cheaper, which they already have done and will continue to do. This is the kind of wish list which gets said on Apple Insider, and which the site is here for. Stuff like "I wish the iPhone had NFC", or "I wish the iPhone had a larger screen". It isn't an ex cathedra instruction to management of Apple who probably aren't reading.



Saying the management should be "left alone to do what they want" is to curtail all discussion on Apple's market strategy. However if they say there are interested in market share it makes no sense to say they are not interested in market share.

The discussion here is on the fact that Apple is getting spanked in the pre-paid market. There are two responses to this.

1) The less popular response ( on AI): Apple needs a lower priced model.
3) The more popular response - Apple doesn't care, its got LOADSAMONEY!


You ( and others) say that Apple are not interested in market share. I post a link from the CEO saying he is very very interested in market share and thinks the 37M is just the beginning, that there is a 2B unit per year market out there. Thats not an instruction to management, it is a reference on what they themselves say, it is a clear refutal of the argument to profit matters above all else.

Apple does care about market share, ( and it also cares about margins), hence we can dicsuss what they have to do to get traction in the pre-paid market which is most of the 90% which Tim Cook is eying.

And that nicely points out why your posts are useless. You make things up and then argue against your fantasies instead of what people actually said.

No one said that Apple is not interested in market share (or, if someone did, I missed it). I certainly never made such a claim.

What I have said agrees completely with what Apple's stated position is - that market share is nice, but not if you have to sacrifice profits or quality to get it. And selling a phone that would compete with a $190 unsubsidized phone would do both.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #68 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And that nicely points out why your posts are useless. You make things up and then argue against your fantasies instead of what people actually said.

No one said that Apple is not interested in market share (or, if someone did, I missed it). I certainly never made such a claim.

What I have said agrees completely with what Apple's stated position is - that market share is nice, but not if you have to sacrifice profits or quality to get it. And selling a phone that would compete with a $190 unsubsidized phone would do both.

To be fair, "Apple is not interested in marketshare" is a common post on many boards.
post #69 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple, force all carriers to drop the forced data plans. Simple.

I remember your irritation with this in the past. They should let you do this if they're not subsidizing the phone or it's out of contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


Apple needs to remain a premium brand, selling premium products to customers who appreciate it.

There's also a rumor going around today about the iPad 3 being priced at $579! Awesome! All that extra technology and the amazing screen comes at a price! Apple is not for cheapskates!

You are just so biased. It doesn't really matter what they cost. Phones in general are not what I'd consider a premium product. They're high volume items, and the iphone doesn't cost that much more than many of the others. As for the really cheap ones, those people wouldn't have purchased iphones if the other option didn't exist, so I'm not sure of the point of this article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Cheap product = users get a poor device and the company gets little profit. Id rather be crushed!

(As for $250 Windows laptops... I recommended one to an out-of-work friend. Never again. Its Russian Roulette just how bag the experience will be... does it run slow and have a bad viewing angle, but at least last you a while? Or does it just die, one part after another, almost immediately so you spend your warranty period losing data and fighting to get service... until it dies again after the warranty ends? My friend has a doorstopcomplete with virusesand $250 down the drain. Shed rather use a rock as a doorstop and file the $250 away for a MacBook Air. And how many of those $250 units do you have to buy in 10 years, vs. how many $999+ MacBook Airs? And whats the resale value like on them vs. the Airs? And the support costs? Almost everyone I know who uses Windows pays $100 plus at least once a year to get their system working again or cleaned of malware. Theyre not tech-savvy like us, but were not the majority. They pay MORE in the end with their cheap PCs that need frequent replacement and cant be sold. And then they have a machine theyre afraid of and hate. But would they consider Apple? Many never would. Go figure.)

Malware is typically quite avoidable on either side. As for things breaking, Apple things break too. The mistake isn't buying something that isn't Apple. The mistake is buying junk. I'd at least check on reviews before making a purchase.

I'm still not sure why this is an article if it talks about sales to people who would not be likely to purchase an iphone even if the other options were removed. I guess they could purchase an early model iphone, but is anything prior to the 3GS even still supported (asking as I can't find any indication)?
post #70 of 109
News flash: Cheap Honda cars 'crushing' Ferraris and BMW's combined.

News at 11:00 </yawn>
post #71 of 109
If US no contract carriers would carry the any of the iPhones I would have bought one. I settled regrettably on a Android powered LG till I can get an iPhone on a no contract carrier.
post #72 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyandlofty1 View Post

If US no contract carriers would carry the any of the iPhones I would have bought one. I settled regrettably on a Android powered LG till I can get an iPhone on a no contract carrier.

So all you need to do is get 50,000,000 of your closest friends to tell Apple the same thing.

The number of people who refuse to buy a contract phone is insignificant - in the U.S., at least. AFAIK, Apple does sell phones in other countries that are not locked to a carrier.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #73 of 109
Who cares?

If Apple doesn't care, I don't care.
post #74 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

If heading toward half a trillion dollars in market capitalization and gobbling up the majority of profits in the mobile market, Mac sales soaring, iPads becoming ubiquitous is being "crushed" then let's have some more "crushing" please. You trolls have never accepted the fact that Apple doesn't seem to notice or care that it is doomed.

The WSJ is the troll in question.

But, as a consumer, do I want to be providing more profit for each product I purchase?
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
post #75 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Because Apple is the only smart phone vendor to have a 2 year contract.

/s

No need for sarcasm. In many markets, Apple's monthly contract is a few dollars/euros/quids higher. Even if it is €5/mo, that is €180 extra on a three year contract (without allowing for time value of money, of course).
post #76 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

When I first bought my iPhone 3GS three years ago, my brother-in-law chastised me for buying such an expensive phone. I spent $300, and that was the last phone I bought.

Three years later that same brother-in-law has gone through 6, count'em SIX Android phones, totaling about $1,000.

So with Apple, you may be spending more in the short term, but you're paying for life-span and quality.

let's see

1. Your bil purchases lots of cheap phones (nothing to do with Android, your bil is just cheap)
2. Your bil likes to update his phone a lot
3. Your bil is careless with his phones

No of this has anything to do with Android and its quality, it is purely your bil
post #77 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I remember your irritation with this in the past. They should let you do this if they're not subsidizing the phone or it's out of contract.

Exactly. I don't have a problem paying $600 ONCE for my phone. I have a problem paying thousands of dollars over two years for crap that I'll never use and which they don't even WANT me to use at all.

THAT is the argument here. NOT the cost of the phone. NOT the subsidized price. NOT the fact that there are cheaper, older models.
post #78 of 109
Who cares, there's no money in it, just ask Nokia the world's number one handset maker.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #79 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

No need for sarcasm. In many markets, Apple's monthly contract is a few dollars/euros/quids higher. Even if it is 5/mo, that is 180 extra on a three year contract (without allowing for time value of money, of course).

Here in Australia an iPhone 4S cost less than a Galaxy Nexus, well it used to before the mandatory Android phone price slump.

You'd be crazy to get an Android handset when it's released they always drop in price.

Huawei and ZTE are coming into dominance.

I wonder what conditions are like for workers churning out cheap phones.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #80 of 109
A person who cannot afford an iPhone (or even if they simply dislike Apple) was not going to be an iPhone customer anyway. There is no lost revenue. There is no competition "crushing" the iPhone.

The title of this story is link baiting.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Cheap Android phones 'crushing' Apple's iPhone in countries without subsidies
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Cheap Android phones 'crushing' Apple's iPhone in countries without subsidies