Google: Android has 450K apps, 850K devices activated daily - Page 2

Yeah, same as Apple.
And iPhone breaks. User buys a new one? New sale. Go to a different carrier? New sale. This is how it has been in electronics for years.

you have nailed it. apple is crying all the way to the bank about those activation numbers...

My cousin told me today he has had to take his android back to the store and get a new one each time is turns itself off. I guess they have to activate the new one each time.
I am sure they are counting all those activations too. I told him to buy an iphone and he won'thave that problem anymore. He said well the iphone was $100 the android was free.
He is on Verizon. He paid for extended warranty to keep getting the replacements. Add up the costs of the warranty, inconvience, and gas to and from the store 3 times and he paid more for the android than he would an iphone.

I don't trust a heck of a lot that I hear from Google. For starters, their history is one of deception. Furthermore, they have no way of knowing how many activations are due to resetting bricked phones, changing of carriers, or so on.

That said, the numbers aren't unreasonable.

Samsung announced that they sold about 97 M smartphones in 2011. Google's 850 K per day comes to about 310 M.

Let's do the math:

1. Apple has about 25% share of smart phones. That means 'everyone else' is 75%.

2. Samsung wasn't that different from Apple's share. So Samsung was also around 25%.

3. If Samsung sold 97 M phones and they were 25% of the market, the total non-Apple phones is around 300 M. The large majority (around 80% were probably Android).

So that puts a back of the envelope calculation at around 240 M Android phones per year - which given the uncertainty in the numbers I'm using is in the right ballpark.

Of course, that all begs the question: who cares? Apple is by far the most successful smartphone vendor in terms of profitability and mind share. They continue to grow at very fast rates. They continue to have the most satisfied customers. Unless you foolishly expect Apple to have 100% of the market, I don't think anyone at Apple is unhappy with where they are.

This is true. But it also points out that when considering market share, a better metric may be user base, at least for a developer, etc. For instance, I have owned three iPhones, but I am only one user.

From what I've seen, when analyzing user base metrics that consider web browsing, ads viewed, apps downloaded, Apple usually is in the leader's position.

Please excuse this interruption but I would like to side track just for a minute.

Like a lot of you I once dismissed Android as just a cheap knockoff of iOS, I did so however without really never playing with the OS. Well after the company I worked for replaced our Blackberry's with Samsung's Galaxy Note I no longer felt that way. Even more so after I received a Asus Slider for Christmas.

Android, especially the newest version 4.03 is a much better tablet OS then iOS. Android might have been copying Apple when Google first released it but now it resembles iOS very little. In fact I see a lot of Android in iOS now, like the notification system.

My Asus Slider can feasibly be used as a notebook replacement. I'm a programmer who predominantly works with Java, Python, Perl and PHP and I have no problems getting actual work done, something that I was never able to accomplish with my iPod.

....and my Galaxy Note, well it's just bitchin. I love it to death, that screen size and resolution, the pen, the OS, has everything I need and does it so well that I rarely pick up my iPhone anymore.

There are a lot of crap Android products on the market, a lot but there are also a few that are very, very cool and are worthy of praise from the harshest critic.

I'm not a Apple or Android Zeolot, I'm just a computer geek who likes technology. I will never just stand by one company and nor should you. There are some really great products out there. Sorry for the interruption.

User base is an interesting point. I have an 2-3 old non-smart phones hanging around my house. The resale value is zero, I haven't got around to recycling.
My two iPhones are sold - the first gen and the 3GS, as is an iPad 1. all are in use, I suspect except the first gen. Cheap Android phones are not being sold on I imagine.

Probably explains some of the other stats re internet usage metrics.

So I just skimmed all of your posts on this forum, and not a single one of them had anything positive to say about Apple. They are 100 % negative. So, conclusion is that you're a fucking blatant troll, and I'm not interested in your response, since they will all be 100% predictable. Why does someone who hates a company so much and has absolutely nothing good to say about them or their products post constantly on the a fansite forum? Why don't you visit and post in forums based on companies you actually like? I'd challenge anyone here to view your post history and argue otherwise. Oh and nice troll name. How pathetic.

Is this satire? I mean, I hope you aren't trying to convince anyone that this is typical of Android devices and that in general, the activation numbers are inflated because "all android devices break regularly and generate perpetual activation counts". I've had several different android-running-things and only once did I have one replaced. Aside from your little story here, there's a lot of members on AI that will try to twist the activation number in one way or another to make Google's numbers appear "inaccurate." Maybe the real problem is google is not tracking ENOUGH information, while privacy advocates continually yell about them tracking too much.

The numbers seem a little off.

This from AT&T Q4 stated last month


I'm not sure how many iPhones were sold last year but lets say 100 million for sake of argument. Between AT&T and Verizon they sold around 25% of all iPhones sold (from above article).

Averaging that AT&T and Verizon each sold 8 million Androids in the same time period, extrapolating from AT&T stated sales = 16 million multiplied by the same ratio (25%) = 64 million Androids sold worldwide (average)

Divide that by 365 and you get = 175,000 per day +/-

My conclusion is that either Android SMARTPHONES (meaning something that closely resembles an iPhone) are selling 1000% better in other countries than in the US or they are padding the numbers in some way to include either dumb Androids or reactivations of some sort.

That is a good point. All of my former iOS devices are being used by family members, friends, or others via Craigslist.

Considering Google is after "eyeballs", it's a tad ironic that it's iOS devices that continue to have "eyeballs" even past their initial sale.

Would the term "churn" be apt? Like with a carrier? A measure of how many net users (or "eyeballs") were added, based on the difference between new devices sold and devices that have fallen into disuse? Depending on the level of churn, it'd be like filling a bathtub with the drain open.

I wasn't aware that one had to have a predetermined view of everything that Apple or another company does before posting on this forum. I happen to own Apple stock, btw.

Again with the cursing. You really need to calm down.

I don't find 850K a day hard to believe. You know Apple did 654K iOS devices per day during the last quarter.

The answer is just a couple articles below on the front page: "Cheap Android phones 'crushing' Apple's iPhone in countries without subsidies" with the emphasis on "cheap".

I doubt Apple cares about the total number of Android activations - they're only interested in the number of high-end activations that compete with their products. Apple doesn't sell $200 tablets nor do they sell $100 phones, so why should they be concerned with how many someone else sells?

Someone also made a comment about developers being the only ones interested in these kinds of numbers. And they're right. Developers aren't going to waste time developing for junk phones that aren't even capable of running a decent App.

Sould we bring back the old argument from the mid 1990s that Apple should license their OS or lose market share?

No they should, however, reduce their margins.

Frankly the company sounds embarrassed in calls about the cash mountain, its going to get to £200B this year, just hanging around, not adding much value.

Except that Apple can use that cash as needed to make sure their supply chain isn't constricted if something unforeseen happens (Japanese earthquake or Taiwanese typhoon), if a good deal in an emerging tech arises (Anobit or Chomp), or if they use it to help their production contractors purchase equipment or retrofit production lines.

The money isn't burning an hole in anyone in Cupertino's pocket, and it shouldn't.

You know what they say about value of something. It is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Unlike gasoline which people need to get to work, nobody really needs a Mac, iPhone or iPad. They are luxury items. The only reason to lower the price would be if sales were slowing, which they are not. Do the shareholders want the prices reduced? I don't think so. They may want a dividend but not less revenue or share value.

Predetermined? When it's clear you despise the company, and every single one of your posts here is negative, I'm asking you to explain to me why you post on a forum about a company you hate. Their products don't excite you. You believe every single move they make is wrong. You get giddy when anything comes out against them or might put them in a bad light. You downplay any positive aspect someone might mention. Please, explain that to me in a logical fashion. When some of your posts are criticism, thats understandable. When 100% of them are, that's usually indicative of a troll. Please, enlighten me. Why do you spend time posting here, about a company you dislike, if not trolling?

Apple sold approximately 70 million iOS devices last quarter. If my math is correct, that is approximately 782K activations per day. Not a far cry from the quoted 850k for Android. Also I suspect that many of that 850k are cheap poor performing phones that can only run a subset of the Android Marketplace Apps. All Apple devices run the full compliment of apps.

I don't hate Apple. Nothing more to it.

True, but you can't iPad, iPod Touches, or AppleTVs because Google doesn't count Android activations on tablets, PMPs, HEC appliances or other devices... oh wait.

No way.

Apple is the #1 computer maker of $1000+ machines. And they're doing exactly what they want to do.

Meanwhile... HP flirted with a complete overhaul of their consumer PC division... and Dell actually came out today and said "we are no longer a PC company"

Hmmm... Apple's tiny marketshare of seemingly-expensive machines may be a blessing after all.

Marketshare is in no way a barometer for success.

Really impressive because when you look at the actually units being sold. The numbers don't add up. So they are selling double what Apple is selling but not double the market share? ODD

Of course it's not. And a lot of those activations are for bottom of the barrel Android phones in "developing" countries, which is a PC word for third world, poor as dirt countries. So who cares about their activation numbers, when the metric that matters the most, the almighty dollar, is where Apple is kicking Android's ass, every single day.

And when you consider "Android" is actually made up of many devices from Motorola, HTC, Samsung, LG, ZTE, Sony, Acer and others.... Apple is doing amazingly well for a single company.

Seriously. This is what the Droidtards want. Choices, choices and more choices. Just browsing through all those new Android handsets on Engadget that are going to be released on the public makes my head spin. As it is, when you walk into a carrier store or a Best Buy, the array of a gazillion Android smartphones is enough to make any normal consumer turn and run away. I see no way that Android vendors can keep this sort of production up and running profitably. Just way too many models to deal with. The Android platform is being sliced into 800 tiny pieces which means most vendors only get crumbs of profit or none at all. It's insane.

I have just two questions.

Are any of the Android handset makers or Android developers making any real money?

How many of these Android handset manufacturers will be onboard once Google ties up tightly to Motorola. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that anyone but Motorola will get first shot at any new OS in a couple of years. These OEMs are all going to be giving Windows a very serious look.

Agreed!

Monetizing Android really is a challenge.

Google might be getting high activation numbers but what is the use of that without users turning that into cold hard cash?

Most android manufacturers are barely profitable, and have Lost marketshare - bar Samsung

Apple turns more profit than all the Android eco-system combined, with iOS devices.

The Android Market really is a wild west - there might be 450,000 unique 'apps' to download, but there are categories that would never appear on iphone - utilities for rooting, wallpapers, skinning utilities, file browsers, MP3 players to replace the dreadful built in Android one. Then there's the derth of quality. Yes, there are a selection of high quality developed apps that are made by professional studios, but as has often been repeated, the android market is a very difficult place to turn a profit with. 300 million devices and a billion downloads a day there might be, but where's the money?

It doesn't seem to make any difference weather there are 10,000 or 1000,000,000,000 Androids- if siad apps dont generate revenue, who's going to bother putting quality first?

So Google can keep pumping their stats, but that's all they ahve to talk about - money is but the stuff of dreams with Android.

Any profit Google made from Android thusfar will be wiped out by the 13 billion they are spending on Motorola Mobility...

Samsung appears to be quite profitable. A couple other vendors seem to be just above the red but not much.

In fact, the profits from vendors using Android is so weighted in Samsungs favour that if Samsung forked Android to make it their own and/or created the Samsung Android Market (SAM) so that validated and tested apps, much like Apple's App Store, could be sold I think Samsung could essentially close out everyone else who tried to compete with an Android-based device.

Samsung is by far the largest Android OEM. I'm sure they're making money.

Motorola has had a couple rocky years... and LG finally had a profitable quarter after a series of money-losing quarters.

But here's the thing... when a manufacturer has 8 new models coming out every year... that's 8 times the R&D, testing, manufacturing and other stuff they have to do. And they sell relatively few units of each. Basically... they spend a lot of money and get little return.

Apple, on the other hand, comes out with very few models, and sells a ton of them. That's business efficiency.

One prime example: Instead of creating a new budget phone... Apple just keeps selling an older model. All the hard work was done for the iPhone 3GS years ago. Same for the iPhone 4. Why throw away all that and start from scratch?

But the other manufacturers are starting to see the light. Wasn't it HTC who said they want to reduce the number of models they make each year? They would be wise to.

My buddy went to school for 550,000 years and he's still stupid.

I run Flipboard on my iPhone.

Quantity or quality?

850K/day?.....prove it

I'm sorry but who cares if every other word out of this individuals mouth was negative or even down right nasty. I understand that your a fan of this company but that's all it is, a company. You had to pay for every toy you've gotten from them. They are not a charity or a religious group as many would have you believe. Apple is here to make business and money and doesn't care about you as an individual and would gladly kill your mother if it would mean a 1% increase in profit for the next quarter.

So please stop with the empty act of chivalry or mega fanboyism that you are displaying. We are all here to make conversation about something we enjoy or we wouldn't be here. Bad or good comments it all makes for good theater anyway so please sit back and enjoy.

Thanks Mr. Omniscience.

Anyone who thinks 800 different devices running a wide variety of OS versions is impressive doesn't get business nor understand that most of those 800 items will have no long term future as these device makers will either be bankrupt or rolling back product plans in order to salvage the business from going into bankruptcy.

I won't even bother mentioning that 800 android derived devices range from a complete pile of crap to a modern, shiny device that still cannot get out of it's own platform rot and splintered distribution of applications.

Google's not actually winning and the extended debt this corporation is amassing just to keep from it's inertia overtaking it's aspirations for the digital world and leaving it to become nothing but a mature leader in search and ad placements doesn't impress anyone interested in determining where new markets will blossom and who will likely lead them.

By the way, over the past 12 months Google's stock is off $.73. You have to go back to late 2005 to see where there is any price points above today's close for more than a month in span.

It's debt is going to go up drastically over the next few years and Apple's bottom line will continue to explode upward.

Google overreached trying to be the next Microsoft and it shows.

I know Google and Android exist, but I can only name three phones using that OS and two are from Samesung. That pretty much sums up how fvcked up the Android market is. No one can remember the damn names of all those phones, much less who makes them and what OS is on it or when it will get the latest one, if ever.

Wow, such a pointless post. Apple isn't a charity or religion? Thanks for clearing that up, I don't need the 'Apple shouldn't be worshipped' talk. I'm displaying no fanboyism. I'm simply questioning why someone who does not care for Apple or any of its products in any way, shape, or form would choose to post incessantly on such a forum. It's a rational and logical question. I wasn't asking why he said something negative. I was asking why he's here considering 100% of his posts are negative. He dislikes Apple, yet posts on an Apple fansite. My explanation is that he's a troll, which is the most logical one. I'm open to other alternative explanations, but haven't been offered any.

But how many fart apps does one need on Android?

Lol you hit it right on the head. The android vendors are not making money with the exception of samsung. Motorola has been bleeding for 2+ years, Sony dumped ericson and absorbed there phones back into the sony name, HTC is loosing money this quarter, they can not keep producing these phones at this rate and make money. There are SO many droid phones on the market and in channel inventory they have to do twofers and free give aways. Lol HTC had something like 12 different model phones that came out last year that is ridiculous.

Prove any of the statistics that come from of any company, Apple included. Seriously though who cares. Apple makes products that have no business being anywhere near these market statistics. Nokia is the largest producer of cell phones in the world, fact. They've held that crown fora very long time but they are in financial disarray. Why, their margins on these crap phones are just to small. Apple is doing it right.

Oh I'm sorry boo hooh Apple isn't the leader of every god foreseeable mobile market out there. What the heck is wrong with you people. Who cares if Google's Android just so happens to be the OS of choice of sub 50 dollar third world piece of crap phones that no self respecting Apple user should care about.

In 1999 Apple was in real bad shape, today they are one of the largest companies in the world. Yet you still want more, you want Apple to be so large that there is no longer any competition left.

Uh guys, please calm down a little. Competition is a good thing, I don't want to live in a world that only has Apple products. Sorry, just me.