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Inside OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion: a Preview of how Apple is improving file renaming

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
Along with integrated support for iCloud, this summer's release of OS X Mountain Lion rethinks the document title bar to enable changing file names, and also (finally!) adds file name editing to open and save dialogs.

Rename files everywhere!

Along with the new, graphical document selector for iCloud, Preview also shows off two features that resolve a long standing irritation with the complication of renaming files.

Mountain Lion's modernized save and open file dialogs now allow you to rename any files (and folders) in the standard file system directly, rather than having to make a trip to the Finder. Just click twice and the name becomes editable.




Even better, Apple has now extended the Versions pulldown of the document's title bar to add options to rename a file directly from its title bar, or alternatively move it, or undo all changes, in addition to Duplicate, Lock and Browse Saved Versions. The new title bar menu is below right, compared to Lion's below left. Below both is an example of a Preview document being renamed from the title bar.








The changes to Mountain Lion title bars also make it easier for non technical users to understand how to safely duplicate an existing document when they don't want to change the original, enhancing the experience of working with Version-enabled, Auto Save files.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Mountain Lion's modernized save and open file dialogs now allow you to rename any files (and folders) in the standard file system directly, rather than having to make a trip to the Finder. Just click twice and the name becomes editable.


Windows has allowed this for...forever.
post #3 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Windows has allowed this for...forever.

Whoop de frick. We don't use Windows here. If your comments were any more polarized, I'd've thought the Mayan 2012 nonsense had started early.

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post #4 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Windows has allowed this for...forever.

But we don't allow Windows. lol
post #5 of 66
Still there is not quick way to rename or save as file with shortcut key: shift+command+s in Apple's application shortcut key http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343
post #6 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Windows has allowed this for...forever.

Didnt you read Apple modernize it. They will patent it soon
post #7 of 66
Glad to see Apple is catching up here.
post #8 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by chudq View Post

Still there is not quick way to rename or save as file with shortcut key: shift+command+s in Apple's application shortcut key http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343

The Apple support is for Mac OS X, not OS X.
post #9 of 66
I'd sure love to be able to delete files in the open dialog box. Sometimes when I'm looking to open a file, I come across a file that I'd like to delete and I then have to get out of the open dialog box, remember it, find it, and delete it. Seems like a lot of unnecessary steps...
post #10 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Windows has allowed this for...forever.

Um, I suppose if you don't count the decades when you had to be VERY careful what you named your files in Windows and what you WEREN'T ALLOWED TO name them it might be a checkmark in the Windows column, unlike Mac systems, ah, always, but no.

Very nice that you WIndows users have always had so many third party file manager shells to make it less of a headache.
post #11 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Mountain Lion's modernized save and open file dialogs now allow you to rename any files (and folders) in the standard file system directly, rather than having to make a trip to the Finder.

HOORAY! About F*cking time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

We don't use Windows here.

Speak for yourself. I use Windows almost every day and recognise the [very, very small number of] ways in which it is superior to OS X.
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post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Windows has allowed this for...forever.

Windows ... oh you mean that OS that MS developed from the original Mac OS it ripped off? Having said that, I remember how file naming in Windblows was very, very horrible for a very long time.
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post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguy209 View Post

I'd sure love to be able to delete files in the open dialog box. Sometimes when I'm looking to open a file, I come across a file that I'd like to delete and I then have to get out of the open dialog box, remember it, find it, and delete it. Seems like a lot of unnecessary steps...

Neat idea! Although a potentially dangerous one maybe, having seen the level of understanding many have. Maybe as Mac OS X get's more iOS like Apple should consider an advanced mode that you can toggle on (with password and a signed acceptance lol) that gives back many things ... e.g. access to ~/Library without the need to use Go every time ...
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post #14 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

HOORAY! About F*cking time!



Speak for yourself. I use Windows almost every day and recognise the [very, very small number of] ways in which it is superior to OS X.

love your post. I too have to suffer Windows ... you must send me the list of the few things ... I've yet to find any!
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post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Whoop de frick. We don't use Windows here. If your comments were any more polarized, I'd've thought the Mayan 2012 nonsense had started early.

Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.

Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?
post #16 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.

Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?

Yes it was
post #17 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.

Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?

I think you may be misunderstanding, OS X has always been able to change file names easily, it is just a bit tricky if you don't know how so this I see as a simplification as more Mac users come on board.

Apple were using Cut and Paste when PC users didn't know what a mouse was. Come to think of it I was doing it on Apple ][s when there was no PC.
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post #18 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguy209 View Post

I'd sure love to be able to delete files in the open dialog box.

You can't do that on a Mac?
post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

love your post. I too have to suffer Windows ... you must send me the list of the few things ... I've yet to find any!

Well, with 10.8 now allowing you to rename files in open/save dialogues, the list of Windows superiorities has shrunk considerably

In Windows, open/save dialogues have full Windows Explorer functionality, enabling you to move, rename and delete files directly in said open/save dialogues rather than having to switch to Explorer "proper" and back again.
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post #20 of 66
I am slightly puzzled to how easily the most basic operations seem to qualify as feature-worthy.
post #21 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarman View Post

I am slightly puzzled to how easily the most basic operations seem to qualify as feature-worthy.

Quiet news day maybe? Apple only up $7 so far ...
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post #22 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarman View Post

I am slightly puzzled to how easily the most basic operations seem to qualify as feature-worthy.

All these little things add up you know. Is there any one "huge" thing that makes OS X better than anything else out there, or is it a whole load of "little" things that when added together make for a vastly superior whole?
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post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

You can't do that on a Mac?

No, thank goodness. The fact that in Windows you can delete stuff as the second step in the process of OPENING a file is a great example of the differences between Windows and Mac. On the Windows side if something is technically possible and someone, sometime might conceivably want to do it, they allow it. On the Mac side, they are (almost always) more discriminating about adding unnecessary stuff. Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).

Think what you want, this rename capability wasn't omitted until now because they didn't know how to do it or didn't realize it might come in handy sometimes; it was omitted because they judged its inclusion worse than its omission.

All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.
post #24 of 66
Does this change mean that the Finder is about to disappear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

...Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.

Same thing here
post #25 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

Personally, when I go to open a file I want there to be no chance that I'll delete a file while clicking around. (Select, backspace, oops).

You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.
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post #26 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.

You don't have small children. "It's so easy even your kid can do it.. and they will".

"Honey, where are my TPS reports?"
"Oh, they've been renamed $#@!@!.534elmo by your son."
post #27 of 66
Just when some of us thought Apple was gradually moving toward hiding the file system from OS X users, they reassure us that the file system (and all of its complexity) is alive and well. I love the "pervasive renaming" feature.

Haven't quite gotten used to "Keep Both Versions" though. Some day I'll try it...

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post #28 of 66
rename a file directly from its title bar"

Never thought of that... but now that I have, I need it!
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguy209 View Post

I'd sure love to be able to delete files in the open dialog box. Sometimes when I'm looking to open a file, I come across a file that I'd like to delete and I then have to get out of the open dialog box, remember it, find it, and delete it. Seems like a lot of unnecessary steps...

I see your point but I disagree with that action as it can be do more harm than good with less adpet users.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

HOORAY! About F*cking time!

Word!

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post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.

I think Apple could alleviate a lot of these frustrations with a "Duplicate + Revert to Last Manually Saved and Close Original" command.
post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.

Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?

You're confusing the relatively recent advent of mobile IOS with the Mac OS of OSX and before. The Mac system has never, ever had a challenge with cut and paste.
post #32 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

All in all, these changes look like good ones. Count me among the many who have been more than a little challenged by the loss of the old familiar Save and Save As... options.


Count me in as one who absolutely abhors the new Lion file saving. It's nothing but three steps back for me, and I've yet to find a single way that it would be to my advantage.

It is NOT better than Save and Save as for me. I can't wait to get back on my SL after being on Lion, mostly due to this.
post #33 of 66
Now there's loads of ways to rename a file, does this mean they're going to change the asinine Finder behaviour where Enter is rename and Cmd+O is open?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

We don't use Windows here.

Actually, some of us do. We use Microsoft and Apple products, and want to have meaningful discussions about the latter. Sometimes this involves comparisons between Apple products and other products, and it would be really good if that could happen without comments like yours reducing the conversation to narrow-minded tribalism.

Both OS X 10.7 and Windows 7 are very good OSes.
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

All these little things add up you know. Is there any one "huge" thing that makes OS X better than anything else out there, or is it a whole load of "little" things that when added together make for a vastly superior whole?

Mountain Lion is basically Apple integrating more of the functions into Apple services, but also to further differentiate itself from other OS's (Yes, I know this file renaming isn't one of them), some of it needlessly IMHO, some looking toward the future of fitting in to developing technology and services. Nowadays you really can use any flavor of any system and get your work done. At the dawn of Macs you could do a bunch of file management tasks in five minutes that literally would have taken a half hour in the Windows of the time, and OSX continued to be favored by those who preferred a Finder style approach to file management. That was a legit scenario that has slowly disappeared though, but we all know how old habits die hard. I'm certainly that way. : )

Mac users have historically liked the fact that they didn't need drivers (often poorly written and needing of constant updates) for many things as this would be system level stuff. You couldn't write a Mac program without adhering strictly to the Apple toolbox, and when you did the program would work. Windows users would scoff at this being handed to them as inferior and needlessly controlling and happily dealt with the drivers and lack of uniformity of the programs and programming as not a dealbreaker. This set the tone for the current scene (controlled vs less controlled) but what pretty much remains from those days is the tone of the argument rather than the reality of what either OS gets you.


These days you can put any kind of shell or interface on pretty much anything, so both Apple and Microsoft do a bit of grabbing at straws, IMHO, to stand out. Does anyone remember those Windows ads of a year or two ago which screamed how amazing it was that you could finally drag a window and bang it up against another one and have two full sized windows? (Or whatever it was). Mac users were rolling their eyes at that one, so it's obvious neither has a lock on this kind of thing. It's two behemoths, each with their niches, both blowing smoke when they feel the need.
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You are unnecessarily concerned. I have never accidentally deleted something as you fear could happen. The delete feature is implemented in Windows with a warning dialogue - if you select a file and press delete, or right click and select delete, you are presented with a dialogue asking if you're sure you want to move the item to the recycle bin.

Unless of course you turned those features off earlier.
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post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Windows ... oh you mean that OS that MS developed from the original Mac OS it ripped off? Having said that, I remember how file naming in Windblows was very, very horrible for a very long time.

Actually it still is. It's amazing how clingy Windows is to the old ways.

For example the system will generate filenames with massive names, e.g. filenames in the Temporary Internet Files folder, but when you want to do anything with those files, like say copy a profile out of the profile directory in order to eliminate profile problems it will tell you that it can't copy/move some files because the name is incorrect.

I have yet to see something like this in OS X.
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Excuse my surprise. It just seems like a minor and necessary ability to me. I was honestly unaware that OS X wasn't able to do it.

Was this as big a challenge for Apple as cut and paste?

It was tricky for Apple to do cut and paste? If I remember correctly the Mac has had it for 27 years now and it still pretty much works the same as it always has, so I'm going out on a limb and say that THEY did right the first time. But if you're talking about the iPhone, yes it was tricky to accomplish because of multi-touch. And incase you hadn't noticed, it's taken Google up until ICS to get system-wide cut&paste that is almost as flexible and extensive as Apple's implementation.

As far as adding the ability to do file management from an "Open" or "Save" dialog; it is counterintuitive and probably the biggest reason Apple has not implemented it until now. The original HUG called for actions and dialogs to stick with single minded tasks to remove confusion. This is the exact reason Windows was so damned clunky and the Mac OS has always been regarded as being much more intuitive. The point being if I choose "Open" from the File menu, I don't want to be presented with anything other than the ability to look for the file I would like to open; it's easier for more experienced users to discern the difference between these new Open dialog and a regular Finder window. Inexperienced users will just up getting confused and side-tracked.
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post #38 of 66
Mountain Lion can't be worse than OS X 10.7 Vista.
post #39 of 66
Don't forget Windows Mobile 7 didn't have cut & paste when it released. Funny the same press who slammed Apple when they didn't have it excused MS for the same omission even though they had a much more extensive history with mobile OS'.
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post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualie View Post

Mountain Lion can't be worse than OS X 10.7 Vista.

huh?.
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