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Proview says no settlement negotiations yet with Apple over iPad trademark

post #1 of 54
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Proview's lawyer has revealed that the company is still hoping Apple will get in contact to begin out-of-court negotiations for a settlement in the ongoing legal disagreement over ownership of the Chinese iPad trademark.

The three-judge panel for the Higher People's Court of Guangdong asked Proview and Apple whether they wished to settle during a hearing on Thursday, but, according to Roger Xie, Proview's lawyer, Apple has yet to come to the table.

“Up to now, we didn’t have any formal negotiations with Apple,” Xie said in an interview. “I hope they will positively contact us and make an appointment with us about formal negotiations out of court. It would be useful.”

Earlier this week, representatives for Apple and Proview exchanged arguments in court. Apple maintains that it did in fact purchase the rights to the Chinese "iPad" trademark and that Proview refuses to uphold its end of the bargain. Proview claims that the deal was never properly made, as it argues that representatives from its Shenzhen subsidiary, which controls the mark, were not present when the agreement was signed.

Proview has set its hopes on a win against Apple to help keep it afloat. The company was at one point a prominent monitor maker, but it has struggled in recent years and is in danger of being delisted from the Hong Kong stock exchange. Various reports suggest Proview is looking for as much as $2 billion in damages from Apple.




A Shanghai court sided in favor of Apple last week. However, a lower court ruling from last November came down on Proview's side.

Apple has threatened Proview with a defamation countersuit, alleging that the company's founder has been making inaccurate statements to the press. For its part, Proview has filed a U.S. complaint against Apple accusing the company of fraud and unfair competition. The company alleges that Apple tricked Proview by using a front company to purchase the mark under "false pretext."

Some officials in China have already begun acting on earlier rulings in favor of Proview. A small number of iPad units have been seized by local officials, though the confiscations do not appear to be widespread.


Chinese officials inspect iPad 2 units after confiscating them. | Credit: Hebei Youth Daily


The lawsuit has high stakes for Apple, as iPad sales are growing rapidly in China. The Cupertino, Calif., company is also gearing up to unveil a third-generation iPad at a media event next week. Depending on how Apple fares in court against Proview, the next-gen iPad could potentially be blocked from sale in the country.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picture Caption

"Ah, see this, where it says 'Display Model'? We can't resell them now. People won't buy display models because they'll automatically think they were stolen."

"But… we did steal them."

"Yes, but Americans are more hesitant to buy stolen products than you'd think."

Also, see how the security thing is still on it and the cable dangles down and abruptly cuts off? They just tore it right off the table, didn't they?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #3 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

P“Up to now, we didn’t have any formal negotiations with Apple,” Xie said in an interview. “I hope they will positively contact us and make an appointment with us about formal negotiations out of court. It would be useful."

Except for the formal negotiations where you sold the iPad trademark to Apple.

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post #4 of 54
This is getting ridiculous and AI, please stop saying that iPad sales might be halted altogether, that is never going to happen. Apple will change the name of their product if that was ever a possibility.
post #5 of 54
I wouldn't negotiate a thing, I would take it to court and if I lost I would tell Proview that I hope they choke on the name and they can keep it. I'd then utilize a secondary name that I had cleverly gotten ready.
post #6 of 54
Proview clearly doesn't know Apple. Or think rationally.
post #7 of 54
Apple should do what Prince did during his legal battles and call the thing The Tablet formally known as the iPad.
post #8 of 54
If Chinese courts aren't a complete joke, this will be dismissed and Proview will get nothing.

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GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzz View Post

Apple should do what Prince did during his legal battles and call the thing The Tablet formally known as the iPad.

How about 'iPad' in Chinese? I seriously wonder if Proview thought to patent that.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #10 of 54
Man these guys are desperate!
post #11 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

This is getting ridiculous and AI, please stop saying that iPad sales might be halted altogether, that is never going to happen. Apple will change the name of their product if that was ever a possibility.

I guess one could change it to ePad.
An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #12 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzz View Post

Apple should do what Prince did during his legal battles and call the thing The Tablet formally known as the iPad.

Hey iTablet. Good one.
An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #13 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokoro View Post

I wouldn't negotiate a thing, I would take it to court and if I lost I would tell Proview that I hope they choke on the name and they can keep it. I'd then utilize a secondary name that I had cleverly gotten ready.

How about eYePad
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post #14 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

How about 'iPad' in Chinese? I seriously wonder if Proview thought to patent that.

I read that there are some 60 different versions of the name Facebook registered in China in both English and Chinese, so chances are very good that somebody already has. It just may not be Proview.
post #15 of 54
Seems at every step, Proview is throwing around that it is open to negotiations. You only mention it this many times if you have a losing hand. I hope that Apple chokes this little good for nothing, dead monitor company to death, and the return lawsuits go beyond that of the corporate protections.
post #16 of 54
Hole. Digging. Out.
post #17 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

Seems at every step, Proview is throwing around that it is open to negotiations. You only mention it this many times if you have a losing hand. I hope that Apple chokes this little good for nothing, dead monitor company to death, and the return lawsuits go beyond that of the corporate protections.

Interesting, "throwing around" is a good term, similar to monkeys and certain biological matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Also, see how the security thing is still on it and the cable dangles down and abruptly cuts off? They just tore it right off the table, didn't they?

Good find. Those are typical security cables, clearly they stormed the Apple resellers and ripped off the demo iPads as well as the iPad stock.
post #18 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzz View Post

Apple should do what Prince did during his legal battles and call the thing The Tablet formally known as the iPad.

hahahahah.

or something like


iPad
this use to be named
post #19 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post

Interesting, "throwing around" is a good term, similar to monkeys and certain biological matter.





What makes this so really, really funny is how it is stated so politely! I never heard anything so droll!

"Certain biological matter"! You sound like one of those wiseguys on a TV cop show!
post #20 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

Seems at every step, Proview is throwing around that it is open to negotiations. You only mention it this many times if you have a losing hand. I hope that Apple chokes this little good for nothing, dead monitor company to death, and the return lawsuits go beyond that of the corporate protections.

Apple has a mountain of cash, so high it can be seen from China. It's no surprise that it might attract some extortionists like Proview. For Proview, it's 2 Billion or nothing since the company goes broke with anything less. Apple will never pay that amount, and Proview's creditors are running out of patience. The clock is ticking and it's not Proview's friend.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #21 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

Apple will change the name of their product if that was ever a possibility.

Has never happened before, unlikely to happen now (or ever).
post #22 of 54
Please, Proview, hold your breath til Apple begins out-of-court settlement discussions...

Quote:
Some officials in China have already begun acting on earlier rulings in favor of Proview. A small number of iPad units have been seized by local officials, though the confiscations do not appear to be widespread.

Zero chance that these units will be back in shops when these earlier rulings are completely overturned.
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post #23 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Has never happened before, unlikely to happen now (or ever).

They've done it at least once. I-O Data owns the right to the trademark in Japan. I don't recall if there was a lawsuit.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #24 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They've done it at least once. I-O Data owns the right to the trademark in Japan. I don't recall if there was a lawsuit.

there was also the Mighty Mouse, that got renamed eventually.
post #25 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jglavin View Post

there was also the Mighty Mouse, that got renamed eventually.

Oh yeah!
Prior to launching the device, Apple received a license to the name "Mighty Mouse" from Viacom, and subsequently CBS Operations, as owner of the Mighty Mouse cartoon series, the title having been registered in the U.S. as a trademark with respect to various merchandise (such as T-shirts and multivitamins) associated with the character. However, the trademark did not cover computer peripherals, and CBS did not apply to trademark the term in the U.S. with respect to computer mice until mid-2007.

On May 21, 2008, it was announced that Man & Machine Inc., a supplier of keyboards and mice to laboratories and hospitals, had sued Apple Inc. for trademark infringement over its use of the name Mighty Mouse. Man & Machine Inc. had four registered or pending trademarks on various computer pointing related technologies, including "Cool Mouse", "Really Cool", and "Man and Machine and Design". The particular Mighty Mouse trademark in dispute was first filed by Man & Machine Inc., on December 18, 2007 with the description "Computer cursor control devices, namely, computer mice" after CBS's filing, but claiming first use in 2004, before the introduction of the Apple device.

Following opposition proceedings on both sides against the other, CBS subsequently withdrew its application, allowing Man & Machine to register the U.S. trademark for computer mice. As a result, Apple stopped selling mice under the "Mighty Mouse" name on October 20, 2009, when it introduced the wireless Magic Mouse and renamed the existing wired mouse the "Apple Mouse".
Incidentally, CBS was successful in registering "Mighty Mouse" as a trademark for computer mice in some other countries, including Canada, although Apple nevertheless chose to change its product name internationally.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They've done it at least once. I-O Data owns the right to the trademark in Japan. I don't recall if there was a lawsuit.

Good example. There's a few of these in Japan.

Anyways, even if this ruling is against Apple, they can still appeal further up the court chain. It's not likely Proview is in a situation to hold out that long. These negotiations are basically being run by the banks. They may count every penny but Apple has a nuclear option up its sleeve - just tell its suppliers not to use those banks.

Corporate capital & finance is a huge business. And even at $2B it tiny compared to just the payroll of Apple's suppliers without considering land, rent and other financial investments and instruments that go along with hundreds (thousands?) of businesses & factories in China.
post #27 of 54
i'm sure that i'm not first:

eyePad
post #28 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

This is getting ridiculous and AI, please stop saying that iPad sales might be halted altogether, that is never going to happen. Apple will change the name of their product if that was ever a possibility.

Or Apple will just stop selling in China and move production elsewhere.

As for a settlement, the only one Apple will go to is the one where Proview admits they sold the rights, hands out proof they did proper transfers and apologizes. They are hoping that Apple will just give up and pay them more money but Apple contends they are in the right and those in the right don't just give up.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #29 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Has never happened before, unlikely to happen now (or ever).

That's not entirely true. Apple has changed the name of products for certain areas when the trademark owners didn't want to sell. I believe it was Airport that was owned by someone in Japan that refused to sell so in Japan it is called the AirMac, MacPort or something like that.

But in the case of something Apple says they bought, well that has never happened so we have no precedent but I would agree that Apple won't simply change the name. To do so would be seen as admitting they have no right to it.

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #30 of 54
Apple should do what Prince did during his legal battles and call the thing The Tablet formally known as the iPad.


That was awesome
post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Except for the formal negotiations where you sold the iPad trademark to Apple.

Heh...if the court were to "void" that transaction, I wonder if Proview could come up with the $55,000 to refund to Apple.
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

That's not entirely true. Apple has changed the name of products for certain areas when the trademark owners didn't want to sell. I believe it was Airport that was owned by someone in Japan that refused to sell so in Japan it is called the AirMac, MacPort or something like that.

But in the case of something Apple says they bought, well that has never happened so we have no precedent but I would agree that Apple won't simply change the name. To do so would be seen as admitting they have no right to it.

Apple's 'Rendezvous' was renamed 'Bonjour' due to patent litigation. While it may not be a physical product, it is an Apple brand. However, iPad is arguably Apple's most high profile brand, you will pick up the telephone and get a direct line to your deity before they change the name.
post #33 of 54
Wow didn't I read this same article once, twice, three times??? Must be a spacial time lapse or something.
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Hey iTablet. Good one.

Or just iPud so the Basic appearance of the logo remains the same. And as far as I searched it is not being used exept in abbreviations like polyurethan dispersion or Public Utility district and an ancient russian unit to measure mass. My guess is, that in China the meaning won't really matter, but the looks always matter.

But first Apple will hopefully crush them by legal means. They will have a hard time to pay back all the lawers.I don't know about China, but in Japan Mr. Yang would definitely loose some joints of his fingers.
post #35 of 54
Hey Proview...

Could you just hold your breath till Apple comes to the negotiating table?

We could use a few less of scumbags like you in this world!
post #36 of 54
Russian roulette for Apple:

Negotiate through gritted teeth now and buy the naming rights for say $1bn.

Or risk losing the case and see the price rocket and the name become available to the highest bidder.
post #37 of 54
On a different note, the bridge that is pictured on ProView's site is located in Charleston, S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ravenel_Jr._Bridge). Kinda weird that a company all around the world would post a picture of a bridge right down the street, lol.

Also, I would guess that this will work out either way for apple: either through court with some lawyer fees, or through a settlement with some much higher costs.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeFowler View Post

Russian roulette for Apple:

Negotiate through gritted teeth now and buy the naming rights for say $1bn.

Or risk losing the case and see the price rocket and the name become available to the highest bidder.

If you're going to post two scenarios, why choose the two that are the most far fetched?
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeFowler View Post

Russian roulette for Apple:

Negotiate through gritted teeth now and buy the naming rights for say $1bn.

Or risk losing the case and see the price rocket and the name become available to the highest bidder.

I don't see Apple paying them $1 B. Maybe another million or two to avoid legal costs. Apple would rather change the name in China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBillyGoatGruff View Post

Heh...if the court were to "void" that transaction, I wonder if Proview could come up with the $55,000 to refund to Apple.

Good point. Although if Proview does win, they could probably get their legal expenses covered - so Apple could just subtract $55 K from the legal expenses they'd have to pay. Now, if Apple could prove that the banks are funding the litigation, they might be able to recover it, but it's unlikely that the banks are so obviously involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

That's not entirely true. Apple has changed the name of products for certain areas when the trademark owners didn't want to sell. I believe it was Airport that was owned by someone in Japan that refused to sell so in Japan it is called the AirMac, MacPort or something like that.

But in the case of something Apple says they bought, well that has never happened so we have no precedent but I would agree that Apple won't simply change the name. To do so would be seen as admitting they have no right to it.

Apple will probably appeal to the extent of their ability, but they're not going to pay an unreasonable amount of money for a name that they already bought. If they lose all the appeals, they'll change the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Or Apple will just stop selling in China and move production elsewhere.

Not a chance. Please stop suggesting silly things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superdx View Post

Good example. There's a few of these in Japan.

Anyways, even if this ruling is against Apple, they can still appeal further up the court chain. It's not likely Proview is in a situation to hold out that long. These negotiations are basically being run by the banks. They may count every penny but Apple has a nuclear option up its sleeve - just tell its suppliers not to use those banks.

Corporate capital & finance is a huge business. And even at $2B it tiny compared to just the payroll of Apple's suppliers without considering land, rent and other financial investments and instruments that go along with hundreds (thousands?) of businesses & factories in China.

It doesn't matter if Proview can hold out that long. The company has already been shut down and is no longer burning cash except for their legal fees. The banks are undoubtedly the ones paying the legal fees - and they will be around long enough to see this through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

Zero chance that these units will be back in shops when these earlier rulings are completely overturned.

True. Apple could sue Proview to recover the stolen units, but that wouldn't go anywhere. Apple could also sue the police departments who took the units for not keeping them in a secure location, but, again, that's not likely to go anywhere. In any event, the cost of those units is undoubtedly tiny compared to the cost of the litigation.

The biggest cost is that Apple may decide to slow down shipments into China until the matter is resolved. If they happen to have 1 million iPads in retailers' hands in China when a final decision goes against them, all of those units could be confiscated. So it is to Apple's advantage to have fewer units in retailers' hands at any one time. That needs to be balanced against the fact that they can't sell them if they're not in retailers' hands. I wouldn't be surprised to see retailers start waiting lists so that they're sold as soon as they're received, minimizing the stock levels.
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post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeFowler View Post

Russian roulette for Apple:

Negotiate through gritted teeth now and buy the naming rights for say $1bn.

Or risk losing the case and see the price rocket and the name become available to the highest bidder.

Who out there, Samsung included, would be willing to pay $2B for the trademark to the name iPad in just one country? Let's not forget that the trademark is not being challenged for any other country. And, if it were to go up for grabs and Samsung were to buy it, it would make for one hell of an unusual situation where the iPad throughout the world except China would be Apple's product and in China it would be Samsung's. Never gonna happen.
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