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Switching to iPads saves Vancouver City Council 50K pages a year - Page 2

post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

About 15 minutes apart. I wonder if the IP addresses are the same.

They likely are, so report them and have the moderators kick them out for it. Meanwhile put them on your ignore list and we can all just let them sit in their corner until they are escorted out

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post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Where else can we have jerks that sign up just to troll the boards with their "everything Apple sucks and users are lame" comments.

I certainly don't see Apple users signing up to troll Android forums, that's for certain.

They're all seem to be different people, though (different IP addresses that don't report as proxy addresses), which is probably even more depressing.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewrite View Post

Otherwise you'll be sending assistants to search through paper files , make copies etc.
The cost savings (on time, labour etc) on that is HUGE.

Depending on how far you are talking someone would still have to do a search. But a search on the office computer is a lot faster and they can blast email the file to everyone within minutes.

So yeah, still a huge savings.

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post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

One extra cost is the cost of disposal of 50K sheets of paper(always interesting that disposal costs are never usually factored into the equation). Depending on the sensitivity of the paperwork, it may need to be disposed of in a secure manner which also adds cost. And storage eventually becomes a big deal. If you don't have to support an extra area to store the documents in an area where they are accessible, that is an additional cost savings.

Don't forget about retention issues. Legally they probably have to keep various reports and stuff for a good 1-2 years. So they are paying tons for that stuff. And then someone to sort out the stuff that can be disposed of and to do it properly. THat means either staff or they are paying a retention company.

With it electronic you are talking about a few hard drives, perhaps DVDs or thumb drives. You could put them in an envelope, seal it and mark the appropriate dates on the outside and at the right time, send it to a disposal company. Probably keep several years worth of stuff in a filing cabinet or two. Or even just on a server drive that is set to trash it on cue.

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post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I certainly don't see Apple users signing up to troll Android forums, that's for certain.

Apple folks don't need to troll forums for entertainment. They have their iPads.

Or as my roommate (unfortunately) just started singing "I've got 99 Apps and trolling ain't one"

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post #46 of 67
The documents are all digitized anyhow and archived on government servers.

It's not just about the raw materials (reams of paper).

There's money involved in running and staffing a copy center. The city of Mountain View (California) estimates that it takes about two full business days a month for the copy center to generate the necessary bundles for city council meetings.

There's also the courier service for the document delivery, plus secure disposal.

One might think, "well what's the big deal about making some copies for a half dozen council members?" It's more than that, there are also the city manager, assistant city manager, department heads, external agencies, etc. to think about. For broad topic agenda item, it might even be a couple dozen individuals.

The Mountain View city council's iPad program piloted a bit after the original iPad launch and included about a third of the council members, plus the director of IT. One council member used her own personal iPad. The initial assessment was a modest cost savings in the short term (just above break even), possibly more if they expanded the program.

From an environmental standpoint, there were some benefits as the copy center load was lighter and there were fewer fossil fuel emissions from fewer courier deliveries.
post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewan View Post

These sort of articles always make me laugh. As if doing this 10 years ago wasn't possible and now with the help of this "revolutionary product" we can go paperless! I mean they could have done this 10 years ago by providing them with laptops, or even desktops since all they do in city council is sit on a desk and shout at each other.

This is just a poor excuse for city council members to get a shiny new iPad for free at the expense of tax payers. I'm sure they could have opted for a $99 HP Touchpad and it would do the same job.

Except that they'd be throwing away the touchpad at the end of this year because it's obsolete, versus the iPad which to date Apple supports at least 3 years (based on iPhone updates)

This is the problem with businesses today, is that they're so short sighted that they see a 700$ Tablet computer as too expensive, when they spend 1000$ a meeting on paper, toner and copier maintenance plus the cost of disposing of the paper securely afterwards. Do you know how much paper "walks" out of the average business that is supposed to be destroyed? Too much.

We all went "paperless" around 1996, when internet access became available to everyone, however portable devices were not up to the task at the time. In the last 5 years we've had blackberries as the de-facto standard for business email, but those are a pain in the ass for having tiny screens. Replace "Vancouver, Washington" with "Capitol Hill" and everyone would be like "why are we NOT reducing waste?" In the last 2 years, the iPad "slate" format became a viable replacement for the blackberry AND the laptop.
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

Anyone else find it interesting and ironic that it is a Canadian city replacing a Canadian product with an Apple/American product? I would bet they thought long and hard before making this switch.

And if it was just switching to a tablet, they could have gone with a RIMM tablet. The fact they went with an Apple tablet may mean that the ecosystem, as well as ease and cost of use, is important as well to the purchasing decisions made. Also, the data cost savings will be a recurring savings for the life of the tablet

DUDE, in the first line of the article, it states it is in good ole U S of A.

(lol, i reserve the right to point out geography mistakes...)

...later i read that he noticed his mistake... yet, he shouldn't be "shooting 1st, asking questions later..."
post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

With the arrival of the flexible roll-up monitor screen, we shall be returning to the era of the scroll.

Cheers

Haha good one. I hope they are not too far off. A pull down 108 " screen would be cool
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Haha good one. I hope they are not too far off. A pull down 108 " screen would be cool

You can do that now. Hook up a projector to your computer and a 108" screen.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I certainly don't see Apple users signing up to troll Android forums, that's for certain.

They're all seem to be different people, though (different IP addresses that don't report as proxy addresses), which is probably even more depressing.

sigh... "they all seem to be from different people, (upon checking the addresses, they did not report as proxy addresses), which is probably even more depressing"

post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar View Post


I'm confused at your confusion.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #53 of 67
I think Adobe deserves a lot of credit for reduction in printing too, since it's PDF that allows you to get something that looks as good as a printed page on your screen (compare the typography and layout of your typical PDF with your typical webpage). When Retina iPads combine with PDF it will be a winning combination.
post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

With the arrival of the flexible roll-up monitor screen, we shall be returning to the era of the scroll.

I always keep a scroll of paper handy in the little room where I do most of my best thinking.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Meanwhile put them on your ignore list and we can all just let them sit in their corner until they are escorted out

Great idea!!
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Depending on how far you are talking someone would still have to do a search. But a search on the office computer is a lot faster and they can blast email the file to everyone within minutes.

So yeah, still a huge savings.


you guys are clueless.

Did you read they are saying they are saving over PAPER files "After two months, the transition to iPads has brought about a 40 percent reduction in the amount of pages printed for meetings."

so a COMPUTER setup like you are saying with laptops maybe and servers is CHEAPER than servers with iPads (which can be carried everywhere?) How many good laptops undercut iPads significantly?

Also can you WALK around with a laptop and use it? -- say the council was meeting the press or citizens at a rally or something. With an iPad if asked a question which they can't remember the details they can whip it up and answer e.g "In 2009 we actually allocated 1.25 million to the issue... ". That's why so many businessmen, lawyers, doctors etc carry iPads around now (like I said it saves HUGE amounts of effort and money). You think SAP etc buying tens of thousands of iPads for their execs are stupid?

factoring cost savings in 'paper and ink' etc leaves out the huge savings in TIME which in todays world is the most expensive product. Think about it: council not being able to solve an issue due to lack of information on a query not planned for and then reconvening at a later date so that an assistant can dig up paper files and photocopy: how much does that cost? (council and staff salaries, perhaps outside advisors like lawyeers, engineers who have to attend again)

you guys criticize but don't read the post or my comment properly.
I'm saying ipads with files in hand is just more cost effective than paper files and more convenient than desktops or laptops.
post #57 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I think Adobe deserves a lot of credit for reduction in printing too, since it's PDF that allows you to get something that looks as good as a printed page on your screen (compare the typography and layout of your typical PDF with your typical webpage). When Retina iPads combine with PDF it will be a winning combination.

PDF is getting a bit long in the tooth. It's good as a replacement for paper, but has too severe a limit regarding file sizes, annotating, highlighting -- those tasks we would normally want to do with it if it were a paper document. Epub isn't there yet either. And, worse, PDF is controlled by Adobe, and I'm not at all fond of Acrobat.
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

PDF is getting a bit long in the tooth. It's good as a replacement for paper, but has too severe a limit regarding file sizes, annotating, highlighting -- those tasks we would normally want to do with it if it were a paper document. Epub isn't there yet either. And, worse, PDF is controlled by Adobe, and I'm not at all fond of Acrobat.

As much as Adobe bugs me at times I still have to say that pdf format is great imo.

File sizes are never a problem, I can adjust it so that a 600 mb document comes in at under 1 mb and as far as highlighting, strikethroughs, underlining, annotating, attaching documents, adding pages... all real easy to do.
na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #59 of 67
Wow... so they saved what?? $1000 dollars per year? We are a SMALL user here and with what Xerox charges us for printing and paper we are around .02/copy.
post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewrite View Post

you guys are clueless.

..
Also can you WALK around with a laptop and use it?-- say the council was meeting the press or citizens at a rally or something. With an iPad if asked a question which they can't remember the details they can whip it up and answer e.g "In 2009 we actually allocated 1.25 million to the issue... ". That's why so many businessmen, lawyers, doctors etc carry iPads around now (like I said it saves HUGE amounts of effort and money). You think SAP etc buying tens of thousands of iPads for their execs are stupid?

I don't know.. that's what laptops are for, aren't they? (unless we're talking about one of those 10lb gaming laptops).

not sure what the council would do, but I guarantee most reporters would show up with either voice recorders or laptops; iPad? Unlikely. I personally haven't met anyone who could type 40+ word/min on iPad's virtual keyboard
(I'm not saying it's impossible, personally, I do around 70-80 wpm on desktop/laptop, 25-35 wpm ipad).
post #61 of 67
Meanwhile, the Air Force reached the same conclusion as Vancouver - up to 18,000 iPads' worth:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...00-ipad2s.html
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post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Meanwhile, the Air Force reached the same conclusion as Vancouver - up to 18,000 iPads' worth:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...00-ipad2s.html

I heard that the plan was cancelled last week..

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...rity_concerns/

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blog...ssian-software


but your bloomberg article seems more recent..

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...00-ipad2s.html

iPad3 is coming out soon though..
post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

"Also can you WALK around with a laptop and use it? "

I don't know.. that's what laptops are for, aren't they? (unless we're talking about one of those 10lb gaming laptops).

"say the council was meeting the press or citizens at a rally or something."

not sure what the council would do, but I guarantee most reporters would show up with either voice recorders or laptops; iPad? Unlikely. I personally haven't met anyone who could type 40+ word/min on iPad's virtual keyboard
(I'm not saying it's impossible, personally, I do around 70-80 wpm on desktop/laptop, 25-35 wpm ipad).


[insult removed]

Read my post I'm saying WALK around and USE it (in my example I said like in a rally), not just carry it around. really I've never seen anybody STAND around and try using a laptops except maybe clueless apple haters? hold it with one palm and type with the other? shoot I thought they were STORKS standing like fools like that.. now I know they are actually apple haters trying to type on a laptop standing up.

(that's why military forces around the world are using iPads as they can be used standing or in other positions more than laptops)

"not sure what the council would do, but I guarantee most reporters would show up with either voice recorders or laptops; iPad"

[insult removed]

you're blinded with apple hate that you can't even understand the simple point I'm putting across. It's not the reporters I'm saying is using the iPads you moron, it's the council members. I'm saying if the reporter in a rally or something asks them a question like "didn't you guys spend 2 million on this in 2009?" the council guy can immediately get his iPad and refer to documents if he can't remember the info offhand "no it was 1.25m and supported by referendum 14-C" etc. Hell a lot better than " can't remember off hand but I don't think thats true. I can get my assistant check the paper files make a photocopy for you, ok?" as the reporter keeps hammering at him for wasting 2 million on camera and council guy looks like a fool for not remembering.

like I said that's why corporations are buying thousands of iPads for their execs, lawyers , doctors etc are using them.

(I give EXAMPLES (like the above) in my posts -- that's why they are so long as I know I'm often trying to communicate with brain dead apple haters - and YET your guys continue to ASTONISH me with your obtuseness... )
post #64 of 67
This is good good!
post #65 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

I heard that the plan was cancelled last week..

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...rity_concerns/

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blog...ssian-software


but your bloomberg article seems more recent..

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...00-ipad2s.html

iPad3 is coming out soon though..

The first one was 2800 units for Air Force Special Operations. It was, indeed canceled. At the time of the cancellation, there were questions of what it meant to the larger (18,000 unit) order.

The 18,000 unit order is apparently going forward. While I don't have any evidence to support it, one plausible scenario is that they got a better price for 18,000 units than for 2,800, so Special Ops may simply by through the larger order.
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post #66 of 67
[insult removed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewrite View Post

Read my post I'm saying WALK around and USE it (in my example I said like in a rally), not just carry it around. really I've never seen anybody STAND around and try using a laptops except maybe clueless apple haters? hold it with one palm and type with the other? shoot I thought they were STORKS standing like fools like that.. now I know they are actually apple haters trying to type on a laptop standing up.

Just go back read what you just wrote here. Do you seriously think it makes any sense?
Your average politicians or councilmen don't go to rallies to read the Bibles from cover to cover. Their smart phones (or notes on their hands) are sufficient enough for pep rally speeches. They bring their advisors, secretaries, laptops for fielding questions from the press - who in turn also bring their laptops to write & take notes.

Furthermore, Apple also makes laptops like MacBook Pro and MacBook Air - there's nothing stopping the council from using Apple laptops, nor is it what I'm opposing here.

Quote:
(that's why military forces around the world are using iPads as they can be used standing or in other positions more than laptops)

They are replacing reference materials with smaller portable devices/tablet like iPads - and this is where iPad shines. iPad isn't not replacing any note-taking devices like laptops.

Quote:
[insult removed]

(I give EXAMPLES (like the above) in my posts -- that's why they are so long as I know I'm often trying to communicate with brain dead apple haters - and YET your guys continue to ASTONISH me with your obtuseness... )

[insult removed]
post #67 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

[insult removed]



Just go back read what you just wrote here. Do you seriously think it makes any sense?
Your average politicians or councilmen don't go to rallies to read the Bibles from cover to cover. Their smart phones (or notes on their hands) are sufficient enough for pep rally speeches. They bring their advisors, secretaries, laptops for fielding questions from the press - who in turn also bring their laptops to write & take notes.

Furthermore, Apple also makes laptops like MacBook Pro and MacBook Air - there's nothing stopping the council from using Apple laptops, nor is it what I'm opposing here.



They are replacing reference materials with smaller portable devices/tablet like iPads - and this is where iPad shines. iPad isn't not replacing any note-taking devices like laptops.


[insult removed]

man like I said you guys are [insult removed] and self defeating with your arguments:

first you all say iPads are EXPENSIVE then you argue : "They bring their advisors, secretaries, laptops for fielding questions from the press - who in turn also bring their laptops to write & take notes." So bringing all THAT e.g secretaries etc INSTEAD of an iPad is CHEAPER? Using a whole bunch of staff instead of having the notes on hand on an iPad is more cost effective?
and you guys call ME deranged!!!

(dudes as I've given real life examples: that's why many execs, top politicians, lawyers, doctors are carrying iPads around. I see people in debates carrying them around now so that they can quickly refer to a point. )

"They are replacing reference materials with smaller portable devices/tablet like iPads - and this is where iPad shines. iPad isn't not replacing any note-taking devices like laptops."
sure will replace SOME laptops but I never said it replace all (I'm typing this on my desktop and not my iPad) and in my post i wasn't even discussing that issue of iPad relacing all notebooks - I said in my in CERTAIN situations like standing around it's more convenient. I said using a iPad was easier than a laptop in certain situations , you DISAGREED implying that laptops were just as usable and I pointed out how stupid it was to try use a laptop while holding it up in one hand whilst STANDING so stop trying to weasel out of it by changing my point...

and the idea of 'iPad replacing reference material is where iPad shines' was what I was getting at in my FIRST post in the thread so after bashing me you guys are going back to the point I made . i argued that cost savings is not just in replacing paper printing for just the agenda at hand but that time is saved as council members can have huge amounts of data (even previous minutes, historical data etc) always on hand on their iPads and they can answer unexpected queries without running back and printing more stuff.

I'm kind , I don't think you're "irrational and fanatic." like you call me, I think you [insult removed] shoot yourself over and over again with your poorly thought out arguments.

[insult removed]
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