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Samsung Securities says 7" 'iPad mini' coming in Q3 2012, Apple investigating flexible panels - Page 4

post #121 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Note that Addabox stated "appears to be". He didn't state that a successful 7" device wasn't possible from Apple or anyone else. He even backed up his comment with evidence to support the current trend. The iPad is the most successful tablet on the market. There are plenty of other non-cheap 7" tablets that simply aren't making a dent.

The only tablet that is making any headway is the loss-leader Kindle Fire which is really a glorified eReader at this point.. Despite it's gain in the "tablet" market and it's retail price that is only 24 to 40% of an iPad it still sold well below the nearly year old iPad this past holiday quarter. I don't know of any supply issues that kept the sales of the Kindle Fire down.

Bottom line: So far there is no relevant tablet market, there is only an iPad market.


Nokia is a great example of thinking that creating an ostensibly complete product line that overs all HW needs is the way to ensure success.


PS: Also note the netbook market. Remember analysts saying that Apple needs to enter this market or risk losing what little market share they do have. They never touched it. They could have offered the best netbook on the planet but the didn't touch it. Where they smart to do so? I think so.

I like your bottom line (Bottom line: So far there is no relevant tablet market, there is only an iPad market.) Still I believe that the reason for not having a 7" market is that there is no iPad there.
I dont't understand what you mean with your statement about Nokia, to me they are an example of where you end when you ask the consumer market what to do, instead of presenting the solution and being ahead.
About the netbook market, i totally agree, a quality supplier should never pursue a race to the bottom.
post #122 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Not a good argument. It could have been used in the late 1960's to describe GM. Or the mid '70's to describe IBM. Or the late '90's to describe Cisco, or any number of other tech stocks. Pets.com, anyone?

..and it was when these companies started grasping at straws by doing nitche variations that they fell from the top. Apple of the late 80 and early 90s included

I think iPhone and iPad still has legs to revolutionalize in the mainstream like Siri before they chase nitches. Once they stop focus on the core and start offering 10 colors and 5 sizes and special edition versions like they did with the iPod line then I will worry.
Note iPod went on the decline around that time and the focus shifted to iPhone and iPod touch.
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post #123 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

I like your bottom line (Bottom line: So far there is no relevant tablet market, there is only an iPad market.) Still I believe that the reason for not having a 7" market is that there is no iPad there.

Let's reexamine what you disagreed with in Addabox's statement...
Quote:
They've never been about chasing after market share via product proliferation. If Apple thinks there's a good user experience to be had at 7", they'll do something about it. But they won't be remotely swayed by bogus claims of "what they must do",

That difference between his and your statements is that you believe that there is a market for a 7" device from Apple. He never stated his opinion on if there is a market for non-10" iPads.

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post #124 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So is this a real concern for Samsung Securities or a weak attempt to get people's not to buy the 10" iPad in hopes of a 7" model coming soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
My first reaction is that this is a planned leak by Samsung as an attempt to dampen sales of the iPad 3 -- some people will delay buying, thinking a new model is coming in 6-7 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune View Post

LMAO !!!!!!!

Do you really think this news will make it out of sites like AI?

You're either jealous, delusional or both.

Ahh.... but we're both adults who have some knowledge and experience in the real world!
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post #125 of 293
Apple is lagging behind in terms of display technology. Apple now depends on Samsung and others for these news flexible displays. Apple needs to develop its own technology in display, flash memory, batteries etc, rather than repackaging what's available on the market.
post #126 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple is lagging behind in terms of display technology. Apple now depends on Samsung and others for these news flexible displays. Apple needs to develop its own technology in display, flash memory, batteries etc, rather than repackaging what's available on the market.

960x640 3.5" IPS display in 2010.
2048x1536 9.7" IPS display in 2012.

Yep, really lagging¡

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post #127 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So is this a real concern for Samsung Securities or a weak attempt to get people's not to buy the 10" iPad in hopes of a 7" model coming soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

My first reaction is that this is a planned leak by Samsung as an attempt to dampen sales of the iPad 3 -- some people will delay buying, thinking a new model is coming in 6-7 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Ahh.... but we're both adults who have some knowledge and experience in the real world!


Dear venerable AI member

Keep your delusional insights to yourselves.

It makes you, a seemingly intelligent person, and everyone else look bad.
post #128 of 293
I'd like to see Solipsm's face when Apple switches over to the OLED.

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post #129 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Samsung is just gaming their own stock. This type of sh$$ is said all the time.
And those flexible panels are no way ready for prime time use.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyols...eens-for-2012/

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post #130 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Let's reexamine what you disagreed with in Addabox's statement...
That difference between his and your statements is that you believe that there is a market for a 7" device from Apple. He never stated if he thinks there is only that he believes Apple will release one if there is a viable financial gain to having one.

Obviously that is right, Apple is not, and hopefully will not be so desperate that they pursue what they don't believe in. That is the terminal disease for a corporation. Still I think that a major objective of this forum should be to discuss what WE think makes sense for Apple, not just praising them for what they do. Apple may be the most successful company in corporate history, but the same history keeps changing, and the loser now will be later to win, to quote Steve J, who obviously himself quoted.
post #131 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


Edit: Why do the four people in the background look like they are fixing to assault the photographer? The Korean woman on the left is looking at the Korean guy like "So you gonna do something about this?" and the guy looks VERY uncomfortable. The gray haired gent on the right looks like a 1960's secret agent who might pull a silenced semi-auto pistol from his shoulder holster.

Lol
post #132 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

Obviously that is right, Apple is not, and hopefully will not be so desperate that they pursue what they don't believe. That is the terminal disease of a corporation. Still I think that a major objective of this forum should be to discuss what WE think makes sense for Apple, not just praising them for what they do. Apple may be the most successful company in corporate history, but the same history keep changing, and the loser now will be later to win, to quote Steve J, who obviously himself quoted.

This forum and many like it are ripe with people stating what they think is right for Apple. The problem I see is that too many state their opinions as unquestionable fact and are too often not looking at Apple's best interest but designing what they think is the ideal product for them.

I don't see Apple using a lot of different sizes just to saturate a market. If there is any market they have the greatest challenge in unit share it's with the iPhone yet that has stayed at 3.5" even when other vendors have moved to larger devices which is much easier for them to market as being better than the iPhone.

Some will say that Apple has plenty of Mac display iPod display sizes but those OSes are different. To use a different size touch-baed display changes the usability of the device so you need to change the UI to accommodate.

Personally I don't see financial gain for a 7" iPad but I do see one for a 5-8" iPod Touch. I think this would allow Apple to compete more closely with the cheaper quality of the Kindle Touch and other such tablets while still turning a profit and without hurting the iPad brand, there 2nd more profitable arm and one that could be their most profitable in a couple years.

I also see an opportunity for a 4" iPhone if they can reduce the bezel and thickness so that you can still do a thumb sweep in one hand. You can't feasibly go any larger and still have the 3:2 aspect ratio. To wit, Android phones with large display using aspect ratios that make them thinner. One could argue that Apple could alter the size and aspect ratio as it made sense for the iPad but I would expect Apple to keep the aspect ratio inline for their handsets.

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post #133 of 293
This means my fat ass wife can sit on the iPad and it wont break. Wow got to get one when it comes out.
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post #134 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple is lagging behind in terms of display technology. Apple now depends on Samsung and others for these news flexible displays. Apple needs to develop its own technology in display, flash memory, batteries etc, rather than repackaging what's available on the market.

Just like that, eh? All of a sudden out of thin friggin air?

Yeah, no problem.

In the meantime, on planet Earth, there is still nothing as good as Retina, whether it comes from Samsung or whoever else.
post #135 of 293
Giant Rollup tv? ummm... it's called a projector.
post #136 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This forum and many like it are ripe with people stating what they think is right for Apple. The problem I see is that too many state their opinions as unquestionable fact and are too often not looking at Apple's best interest but designing what they think is the ideal product for them.

I don't see Apple using a lot of different sizes just to saturate a market. If there is any market they have the greatest challenge in unit share it's with the iPhone yet that has stayed at 3.5" even when other vendors have moved to larger devices which is much easier for them to market as being better than the iPhone.

Some will say that Apple has plenty of Mac display iPod display sizes but those OSes are different. To use a different size touch-baed display changes the usability of the device so you need to change the UI to accommodate.

Personally I don't see financial gain for a 7" iPad but I do see one for a 5-8" iPod Touch. I think this would allow Apple to compete more closely with the cheaper quality of the Kindle Touch and other such tablets while still turning a profit and without hurting the iPad brand, there 2nd more profitable arm and one that could be their most profitable in a couple years.

I also see an opportunity for a 4" iPhone if they can reduce the bezel and thickness so that you can still do a thumb sweep in one hand. You can't feasibly go any larger and still have the 3:2 aspect ratio. To wit, Android phones with large display using aspect ratios that make them thinner. One could argue that Apple could alter the size and aspect ratio as it made sense for the iPad but I would expect Apple to keep the aspect ratio inline for their handsets.

I disagree about the 7 inch market potential, and I don't quite see the difference between iPad and iPod, Apple have to maintain the quality. Given the current iPad resolution, a 7 inch should not be a major undertaking as development is concerned, there is in my opinion much unused real estate on the current iPad screen.
Regarding the iPhone, the only reservation I had when I got my first one was the size. I sincerely hope that Apple will not increase the physical size, but within those limits there is still room for improvement, a larger active screen should be feasible, but if the music app could have some more distance between the new/previous buttons and the play/stop it would be an improvement. To many times in the middle of a chapter of an audiobook I have hit the wrong button.
post #137 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

There are researchers (both academic and corporate R&D labs) working on flexible batteries, and a number of working prototypes have been shown to work.

I reckon they will have a bit more trouble with flexible processors that actually work reliably after being rolled up a few times unless they completely abandon the idea of putting all processing components on a single piece of silicon.
post #138 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

I don't quite see the difference between iPad and iPod, Apple have to maintain the quality.

Think about it from a business perspective. You should be able to create a case for a 7" device being marketed as either an iPod Touch or iPad and have rational reasons to back your case up.

PS: You say "maintain quality' but not that even in the iPod Touch Apple uses a low quality display to keep the price down.

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post #139 of 293
I really don't understand people need to dismiss all reason when it comes to hardware sizes. Further I can't understand why people can't recognize that one of Steve's great strengths was marketing. A key consideration with marketing is that you can only sell what you have available at the time. You can take that to mean you can flush anything Steve had to say about screen size and aspect ratios down the toilet.

I don't mean that in a bad way just that all these quotes about what Steve said are total nonsense. Aple has proven iOS to be a successful strategy for tablets, they will eventually grow from the iPad base they have created.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

It's not simply about what Steve felt. It's about what actually works in practice. Apple likes things to be smaller, if 7" worked they'd be more likely to make it 7" then 10". They made it 10" because it works better. Own an iPad for 6 months and you'll understand. 9.7" at a 4:3 ratio is smaller than you'd think. A DVD is 9" for example. You can only truly understand this having owned and used one for a few months. So I'm not trying to convince you because you don't know you're just going to have to trust me.

Imagine you make your living on your feet, be it doctor, field engineer, construction manager or whatever and you need an iPad like device you can carry in your pocket. The current iPad won't cut it. I've actually seen many an iPod Touch adopted by such people. Almost everyone of those people using a Touch would jump at a chance to have a sub seven inch device.
Quote:


That's fixable. It'll be fixed.
post #140 of 293
Yay finally a 7 inch, Christmas stocking stuffers. I love the 7 inch size, I had a B&N Nook Color in which I rooted and installed MIUI on to it. I used it all the time on the train until I got my Samsung Note. Now it belongs to my daughter, we bought her an iPad for her birthday last November but I always see her with Nook. When I asked her why she wasn't using her iPad she said because it can't do this and throws the thing into her purse. She does use the iPad to but she keeps it at home and uses the Nook as her little traveling buddy. Well until her hand mobile contract is up in April then she wants a Note like me so the Nook will go to my son.

I think there is a large market for people who just want a small tablet for traveling. Have you seen the new Galaxy Tab 7.7 wow that is a nice tablet.
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post #141 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

I disagree about the 7 inch market potential, and I don't quite see the difference between iPad and iPod, Apple have to maintain the quality.

you don't see the difference because you don't have solipsismx's rationalising prowess. It's his way of saying that if apple do release a 7" tablet they won't be flip flopping on their previous stance (which at the point they chose it it was 100% justified strategically I am with him too in that, and I said so then) but they would be just releasing a large iPod instead. No matter what apple decides to call it -and I will wager it will be an iPad mini, and we are also going to see slightly enlarged iPod touches to match me iPhones- it will still be a 7-8" tablet. To claim as he does that if they make a third screen size segment (assuming they marginally enlarge iPhone-pods which they will) with the same iOS interface these are not going to be iPad minis but larger iPod touches while iOS will be pretty much be the same interface with size adjustments, is such a ludicrous hair splitting argument, but a token one for my desicion to never engage in a disagreement with him here, as I find it utterly pointless.
post #142 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

..and it was when these companies started grasping at straws by doing nitche variations that they fell from the top. Apple of the late 80 and early 90s included

First a sub seven inch device is not a niche product. If you take time to screw up the courage to actually talk to people that own and use Kindles you will find out that size is an issue.
Quote:
I think iPhone and iPad still has legs to revolutionalize in the mainstream like Siri before they chase nitches.

and give up a significant share of the market to others? I think not. Your. Characterization of sub seven inch devices as niche devices is so I'll informed as to crush your credibility.
Quote:
Once they stop focus on the core and start offering 10 colors and 5 sizes and special edition versions like they did with the iPod line then I will worry.

Personalization in the cell phone market comes via the market in cases. Apples colored iPods actually where very successful.

Quote:
Note iPod went on the decline around that time and the focus shifted to iPhone and iPod touch.

Both of which are iPods. Which means Appple is actually selling more IPods than ever.
post #143 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Apple will make the products that deliver the best user experience as they see it. They've never been about chasing after market share via product proliferation. If Apple thinks there's a good user experience to be had at 7", they'll do something about it. But they won't be remotely swayed by bogus claims of "what they must do", any more than they felt they needed to make a netbook or an xMac-- despite the many and fervent claims that Apple would be obliged to respond to competition in those markets or risk being left behind. Seems to have worked out pretty well for them.

Sorry, but this doesn't stack up.

Yes, Apple have looked to deliver the best user experience.

But they have not shunned product proliferation to suit the needs of different consumers.

Their most successful product line in terms of market domination has been the iPod, where they offered a large range of products of different physical sizes and different price points.

They have a range of macbooks, at various prices, with screen sizes from 11.6" to 17"

They have a range of iMacs with screen sizes from 21.5" to 27".


Apple don't say 15" is the optimal size for user experience for a laptop, that's all we'll make. They credit their customers with having different needs, preferences, and disposable income. They recognise that some may prioritise portability and go for their smallest form factor, while others won't mind a bulkier device to get the benefits of a bigger screen and more power.

Why shouldn't Apple adopt this approach with tablets? It is not un-Apple.

I suspect we will see an 8" iPad later this year, (30% greater area than a 7"). And I'll be up for one.
post #144 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

.

I do not care what was Steve Jobs opinions about an ideal size; I want a 7 inch unit, and I am not going to buy a larger one,

then don't buy one. But don't assume Apple will ever make a smaller one to make you happy or to 'compete' with anyone. Because it is highly highly unlikely to happen.

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post #145 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You can file it for claim chowder but I see absolutely no reason why there should't be a 7.85" iPad. One size does NOT fit all and there are always scenarios where a smaller iPad could excel (Point of Sale, Inventory tracking etc)

People are doing just fine with the current equipment. Why fill a need that is already being filled with current models

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post #146 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

Sorry, but this doesn't stack up.

Yes, Apple have looked to deliver the best user experience.

But they have not shunned product proliferation to suit the needs of different consumers.

Their most successful product line in terms of market domination has been the iPod, where they offered a large range of products of different physical sizes and different price points.

They have a range of macbooks, at various prices, with screen sizes from 11.6" to 17"

They have a range of iMacs with screen sizes from 21.5" to 27".


Apple don't say 15" is the optimal size for user experience for a laptop, that's all we'll make. They credit their customers with having different needs, preferences, and disposable income. They recognise that some may prioritise portability and go for their smallest form factor, while others won't mind a bulkier device to get the benefits of a bigger screen and more power.

Why shouldn't Apple adopt this approach with tablets? It is not un-Apple.

I suspect we will see an 8" iPad later this year, (30% greater area than a 7"). And I'll be up for one.

Ugh! Look at the primary I/O of iOS. You can't expand and shrink the display size and aspect ratio without considering how this effects the UX. This is very much different for a windowed OS that uses a mouse pointer and keyboard for its primary input.

The iPod is an even more ridiculous concept as there is no development platform so they could alter the display size, resolution and aspect ratio as they saw fit because adjusting the UI was comparatively simple but that is also like the Mac in that the display was not how your input actions into the system.

Surely you have to realize that we are in the 5th generation of the iPhone and iPod Touch and yet the display size and aspect ratio hasn't' altered, and the resolution has only altered when they scale by a factor of two so that 3rd-party apps will still render correctly even if they haven't used the then newly released SDK to compile for the Retina Display. How many times did the other iPod displays alter size, resolution and aspect ratio? I seem to recall 1 or more of these changes changing every year for the iPod Nano on several occasions.

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post #147 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Speaking of 7" tablets, has there been any news lately about Kindle Fire sales?

<crickets chirping>

Not really. We never got a number for just the Fire and of course they dont adjust for returns.

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post #148 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by netrox View Post

Here's the problem: Steve Jobs is dead. He's no longer with us. Tim Cook is the CEO and he makes decisions which may not be what Steve Jobs wanted.

Steve Jobs simply told Tim Cook that Tim Cook can do whatever works best for Apple.

I trust Tim Cook to do his job and so far, he has done extremely well.

While perhaps this is true, don't assume that Tim Cook is going to toss out everything Apple has already started, has planned etc simply because Steve is dead and can't stop him.

You can bet that Tim understands why Steve made the choices he made and could come to the same conclusions

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post #149 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

First a sub seven inch device is not a niche product. If you take time to screw up the courage to actually talk to people that own and use Kindles you will find out that size is an issue.

So, just to clarify:

Kindles are selling because of their size, and not just their cheap price.

Is that your reasoning?

Then why aren't these people buying iPhones and Galaxy S's, which are a hell of a lot smaller and just as functional?
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post #150 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

.

Price? $299 Wifi only and $399 Wifi and 3G. Smaller iPad for the kids, larger one for the 'rents. That would kill the Fire.

the iPad is already killing the Fire.

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post #151 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

There are researchers (both academic and corporate R&D labs) working on flexible batteries, and a number of working prototypes have been shown to work.

Apple would never incorporate a prototype item into a product because they could never get the prototype item in the volume they would require. A flexible battery prototype would be 2-3 years from becoming a possible mass producible item.

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post #152 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

then don't buy one. But don't assume Apple will ever make a smaller one to make you happy or to 'compete' with anyone. Because it is highly highly unlikely to happen.

Get off your hi horse for a moment there and understand that apple are in the market to both compete with other tech companies and make their customers happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

People are doing just fine with the current equipment. Why fill a need that is already being filled with current models

I wonder what you ll be saying in a few months when that 7-8" hits the market...
post #153 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

High contrast AMOLED displays on Android phones are the new Pepsi Challenge. Just as people preferred the sweetness of Pepsi in taste tests when only drinking a small amount people will say they prefer high contrast images when only given a small amount.

Full disclosure: I just made all that up but it sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I like the analogy. And yes, Pepsi is too sweet.

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post #154 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I wonder what you ll be saying in a few months when that 7-8" hits the market...

Is what they said last year at this time, just for reference.

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post #155 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

but the same history keeps changing, and the loser now will be later to win, to quote Steve J, who obviously himself quoted.

Who? I think you might be referring to some other old guy with a scraggly gray beard, What's his name, Robert Zimmerman. It's the "Times they are a' changin'".

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post #156 of 293
If there is a new product, it will be a larger iPod touch, with a 6" screen. It will also have a Wacom-tech stylus, HWR, and be known unofficially as the iNewt.

The only reason for the 7" screen is that's what the factories can produce after Apple buys all the normal size screens.

Cheers
post #157 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Is what they said last year at this time, just for reference.

For sure, but I didn't say it back then because I didnt see any strategic reason of apple coming up with one. This year I firmly believe that the iPad has matured enough for apple to opt for a smaller screen too, as well as a tangible market for smaller devices has also arisen.
post #158 of 293
Apple needs to put its vast array of multi-touch patents to use and sue the sh** of Andriod and Samsung. This would have been Jobs' next step. More important, it is the right thing to do. It is time for Apple to throw the hammer down

In parallel, Apple needs to completely terminate Samsung as a parts vendor. Completely and quickly. I have no doubt Samsung is sharing Apple secrets internally across off it's key divisions

Like this crap (if true)

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

Reply
post #159 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

For sure, but I didn't say it back then because I didnt see any strategic reason of apple coming up with one. This year I firmly believe that the iPad has matured enough for apple to opt for a smaller screen too, as well as a tangible market for smaller devices has also arisen.

But when I say the same thing you get your panties in a bunch.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #160 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Apple needs to put its vast array of multi-touch patents to use and sue the sh** of Andriod and Samsung. This would have been Jobs' next step. More important, it is the right thing to do. It is time for Apple to throw the hammer down

In parallel, Apple needs to completely terminate Samsung as a parts vendor. Completely and quickly. I have no doubt Samsung is sharing Apple secrets internally across off it's key divisions

Like this crap (if true)

Apple dropping Samsung as a supplier and foundry would cost Apple a lot of money just as Samsung dropping Apple as a customer would cost Samsung a lot of money.

It looks like Apple is working on reducing Samung's need but the need is still there and will likely be there for a long time.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
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  • Samsung Securities says 7" 'iPad mini' coming in Q3 2012, Apple investigating flexible panels
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