Samsung Securities says 7" 'iPad mini' coming in Q3 2012, Apple investigating flexible panels - Page 3

Wow. It's Fred Willard!

And the guy with the neck strap is saying "Break! Break! Shatter! Oh dang. I wanted that screen to break..."

More likely a leak designed to drum up free publicity for their display tech by claiming that Apple's interested in it (whether or not it is true). If it was leaked by an independent investment bank, that would be one thing, but this was leaked by Samsung Securities. The fact that we're talking about this means the purpose of the leak (gain in mindshare for Samsung's display business) has been achieved.

You still need an adapted UI and SDK for this new size. Remember the area is 1/2 the 9.7" iPad every onscreen item will take up 1/2 the space.

For example, The iPad icons are larger in both size and pixels and have more space between them. I'd say the icons would be too small if everything was simply adjusted down without concern for usability as we've seen with vendors using Android. They might even be smaller than on the iPhone but with more space between them (I'll have to run the numbers). This means that they would need to adjust the spacing to idealize the contents for the primary I/O and form factor.


edit: iPhone app icons are 57x57 px and 114x114 px. iPad apps icons are 72x72 px. That means iPhone icons are 0.34"x0.34" and iPad icons are 0.55"x0.55" in size. To shrink the iPad down to 7" with the 1024x768 display you get 0.39"x0.39" icons. That's actually doable being that close to the iPhone icon sizes yet being 4x the display area and having all that extra space between icons is not how Apple would release a UI. It will be idealized or I'll short the company.

edit2: Taking the 960x640 resolution of the iPod Touch and making that 7" reduces the PPI back to what it was on the original iPod at 480x320 which really isn't a bad thing in a tablet because you do hold it farther from your face, especially when you consider that such a move would be to capture the lower-end of the market. It would be 165 PPI which would make the icons 0.44"x0.44" which is right between what they are on the iPod Touch and iPad. That actually make this sounds reasonable as many aspects of the UI would fall in-line unlike doing a shrink of the iPad UI making it easier for Apple and devs. BTW, the Kindle Fire and Nook Color displays are 169 PPI.

In my opinion, Tim would be best off if he never asks himself "What would Steve have done?"

Very much agree on this valid post , why the heck would you come up with an idea and ask your most fierce competitor to make those parts for a device that they can copy off. Maybe apple buy samsung LCD and run it themselves ? or invest in setting up the tech from another source. These rumors are great for foaming at the mouth techies but are really bad from apples point of view when trying to keep ahead of the copy brigade.

Along with pre-empting competition, your last paragraph is the best rational (I've heard) for offering a smaller iPad device -- i believe that the iPod is what it is and should not be expanded into a larger model.

I don't see Apple using LCD's in their iPhone or iPad lines beyond this year. If that part turns out to be correct they don't appear to have any option other than dealing with Samsung in some way for the next few years IMO, even if indirectly.

The 7" flexible iPad is the perfect size for smuggling the device across the border in a human mule to avoid Proview trademark issues.

Why do you think LCD will be dropped? I see nothing that suggests this in any way. Better colour recreation. Longer lasting panels. Better battery life for pages that aren't significantly black in colour. Heavy investments into IPS tech.

The only way I see Apple using AMOLED is if they create a trackpad that has some visual output because it can show a deep, attractive, and power-free black more of the time. Examples: Calculator app on the primary display with virtual number pad on the trackpad because using the mouse pointer or the top rows is slow and cumbersome). Having Mission Control images at top of trackpad at all times so you can tap the fullscreen app/desktop once to switch apps is faster than doing a three-finger sweep up and then using the mouse+click to switch apps.

Maybe it's the screen for the next iPhone as that enormous Galaxy phone was so good and well received that Apple decided to copy and make it a bit bigger.

Or Apple could have suckered them into revealing a source of leaks. Some Apple employee and/or Samsung employee might be leaking component pipeline info to the press and blogs. Apple doesn't like leakers. They've fired leakers in the past, and probably will continue to do so. Seeding different false information to different untrustworthy employees is an easy way to find the leaker.


IGZO LCD panels could be used in any Apple product that has a screen. iPod nano to iPhone to iMac Retina displays to Apple television set. And don't forget that Sharp and Apple are also working together on an advanced OLED manufacturing process. Lower cost, higher yield, higher quality:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...hone_ipad.html


Why, exactly, would we need a flexible screen in an iPad? Let me count the reasons why we don't:

1. iPad is mostly battery. Without flexible (or micro-sized) batteries, a flexible screen is useless.
2. A flexible screen would need to be plastic. Plastic scratches easily. Hence glass iPad screens.
3. A rigid screen is easier to tap on and to perform multi-touch gestures on. A non-moving target.

Looking a decade or more into the future, flexible screens might be more practical, as batteries become smaller. Batteries might nearly disappear if solar cells become more efficient and cheaper, and if electronics become more efficient. But ten years from now, Siri and possible imitators might eliminate the need for displaying data in many apps. Apps that give a quick answer like "what temperature it it at AppleInsider headquarters?" Or "How do I get to the nearest Apple store?" Many other apps on small-screen devices might be replaced by voice-output apps.

And big-screen devices won't really need flexible screens either. Will you need to be able to bend the 100" TV hanging on your wall? Nope. How about bending that 30" iMac screen on your desk? Why would you want to do that? Bend your 5mm-thin 13" MacBook Air's screen? Not necessary.

Flexibility would give a huge advantage over glass in shatter-resistance. But bending screens is only interesting in demos at trade shows.

I totally agree. Limitation is essential. Apple's combination of limiting product range, obviously finding the few right products, and of course user experience is absolutely essential. But, arguably, it may be just as important that they are possibly the best company in the world on logistics, and I believe that now is the time to go for a choice in the 7 inch segment as there may be issues related to supply hi res 10 inch displays in the volumes demanded by the marked.

They may know how to make flexible screens but judging from the horrible yellow cast on the original photo, they certainly don't understand white balance on their camera. Mixed light sources is a bitch but it only takes a couple minutes to fix in Photoshop. Feel free to use this one if you like.

Lower power requirements (yes, IGZO displays can be OLED too), thinner profile for thinner devices, more vibrant color rendition and noticeably improved blacks, better contrast on high-def devices which means easier on the eyes, less prone to breakage than LCD, lower projected display costs than LCD going forward. . .
and flexibility

1) I don't care about "infinitely" better blacks when the LCDs Apple uses have great blacks. Could they be better, sure, but we're at a point when we're measuring a technical superiority to a real world difference. AMOLED blacks are the Monster Cables of the display world. This represents the difference between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 for black. You can't beat AMOLED but it's more than good enough with all things considered.

2) Better contrast is great but not at the expense of better color reproduction and other image quality factors.

3) I'm not aware of LCD breakage but I am aware longevity issues with AMOLED. iPhones have a long life which helps their resale value which lowers TCO and allows many to get a new model every year. If they move to AMOLED and the blue is shot when they try to sell it that isn't a good thing.

4) Thinness is certainly an issue for Apple but I don't think this one pro is worth the other cons.

5) I don't see lower costs. You're talking about switching all their investments to a new display tech. Where are the tablets with AMOLED?

6) Another issue for Apple is power management. They would have to revamp the entire UI yet they are trying to make iDevices and now Macs as simple as possible for people to cross from one to the other. It's in their DNA.

7) There are plenty of non-Apple smartphones using LCDs. Typically in the larger devices unless it's a PenTile display which isn't a good thing except for power usage.

It still might be glass. Corning started development of flexible glass awhile back, with one of the specified uses being flexible displays in mobile devices.
http://www.corning.com/displaytechno.../flexible.aspx

Then I suppose we'll just have to wait until 2013 to see who is right. Bookmark this one so we can be reminded.

BTW, there is a "real world difference" in the blacks. As for color accuracy, that's in the eyes of the (be)holder and more of a proper Monster Cable example. Working with color and customers every day, most don't care if the color they're seeing is technically accurate". If it doesn't look like it to them, then it isn't no matter what the profile says.

It's not quite properly fixed like that, but I like it better than if it had actually been taken well. It's reminiscent of photos from the 70s, and that's sort of neat.

It sort of makes me want to purposely take pictures of modern tech that look like they're from the 70s. Even get people to dress appropriately and just be causally using said anachronistic tech…

High contrast AMOLED displays on Android phones are the new Pepsi Challenge. Just as people preferred the sweetness of Pepsi in taste tests when only drinking a small amount people will say they prefer high contrast images when only given a small amount.

Full disclosure: I just made all that up but it sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Is that actually true, though? There appears to be at least somewhat of a market for cheap tablets, and for that 7" is simply a means to an end to keep production costs down. As far as there being any real enthusiasm for 7" specifically regardless of cost, I don't see that. Even at cut rate prices the 7" tablets haven't sold very well compared to the iPad.


Well, that certainly isn't true. Samsung et al make all kinds of modestly selling stuff that remains on the market for a while before being supplanted by the next gimmick. It's a "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" philosophy that's completely different from what Apple does.


I hear a lot of people asking for iPads. Numbers bear me out. And the "trend" is more of that throwing stuff at the wall thing, with something like the Galaxy Note approaching absurdity. I doubt Samsung will sell many of those and there's no reason on earth for Apple to waste its time with this kind of nonsense.


Apple will make the products that deliver the best user experience as they see it. They've never been about chasing after market share via product proliferation. If Apple thinks there's a good user experience to be had at 7", they'll do something about it. But they won't be remotely swayed by bogus claims of "what they must do", any more than they felt they needed to make a netbook or an xMac-- despite the many and fervent claims that Apple would be obliged to respond to competition in those markets or risk being left behind. Seems to have worked out pretty well for them.

The word is the Note is actually selling quite well for all its absurdity.

• http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/02/sam...-by-years-end/

PS: Did you see the behind the scene video of The Hobbit I posted on the thread in which were discussing film production?

So to you, whatever Apple is doing right now, and anytime, is perfect? I hope you are not employed by Apple! This level of servility is appalling!

I think his last paragraph is the important one there.

Nothing in the text you quoted should have led you to that conclusion.

Absurd is an opinion. Sales numbers are a fact.

What should one do when one's opinion does not correspond to the facts?

Servility is irrelevant. The larger issue is not seeing what could be better. That may be due to a lack of imagination, which has no place at in an innovative company.

So far, they're damn-near perfect, and have been for several years. Apple has the "big picture" of tech advancement in the consumer sphere down to a science. And it looks like they'll maintain that record through 2012.

Whatever Apple is doing to make them the number #1 most valuable, profitable and watched company is perfect. You can debate it all you want, its hard to take criticism from the side lines from anyone who can only dream right now of being in Apple shoes. Who is the teacher and who is the pupil? Apple created the smart phone and tablet market. Competitors and critics can go shove it.

Once Apple is no longer are in this position, then we can speculate what "in-perfect" decision made them fall from #1. From what I can see, that has not happened yet and in fact the gap is widening even further from a profitability point of view.

Why should Apple go chase a small numbers nitche market when they already own the mainstream?

Steve gave the following advice to many companies before: "your product line has some good stuff but also is full of crap, you need to pare it down and just focus on the good stuff". This what Apple does internally as well.

How many different smart phones and tablets does Samsung, HTC, LG and Motorola make? I've lost track. Frankly, its all noise to me and admission of failure to gain any sustained long term following in the mainstream market. They have nothing to differentiate themselves from their other Android based competitors.. all they have is exploring nitches to try to stand apart. Desperate companies will do desperate things, like having 20 different phones and tablets. all never hitting the mainstream mark. Quite pathetic.

Not a good argument. It could have been used in the late 1960's to describe GM. Or the mid '70's to describe IBM. Or the late '90's to describe Cisco, or any number of other tech stocks. Pets.com, anyone?

I don't understand the assumption that a 7" should be made targeting a low price. And I do react to the perception of Steve Jobs statement, which I believe have to be seen in the context of that time; a stampede to get the only usable product out there, and of course the current level of achievement . Still the world moves on and I firmly believe there is a market for a quality 7" unit, and I also believe people are willing to pay the price quality demands. The lack of a 7" in my opinion, and based on my perceived needs, leaves a void in the market that someone will fill. Samsung makes quality products HW-vise, hampered by the Android system, but they are a very serious threat, and the consevatiism I believe I see at this site, which i do not believe is shared by Apple, will deliver the market to them. Nokia degenerated from being the largest phone maker to making cheap phones where the great innovation was the color and interchangability of the shell, I doubt Apple will fall int the same trap, but it is not easy to stay on top for a long period of time, and conservatism is not what keeps you on top.

Samsung is just gaming their own stock. This type of sh$$ is said all the time.
And those flexible panels are no way ready for prime time use.

Samsung is in a pretty good shape, unlike the others you refer to, and if Apple takes this as lightly as you do, and are as happy as you are about Apple being mainstream, they are in deep trouble. Fortunately i do not think this is the case, I think they are much more realistic about their vulnerability than what we see their fans on this site are.

I can think of exactly one use of flexible displays, but they wouldn't be used where you think they are. Augmented-reality Visor/Googles that wrap around the face. There has been some interesting stuff done on the Nokia N95 and Nintendo 3DS, but it's not yet at a stage where I'd say AR is at all useful.

As an example, you could unroll the flexible display over one eye, go to the grocery store and look at the labels on products and see things like nutrition, ingredients/materials, country of origin, wholesale price, prices from other stores, etc. Then roll the display back out of your way instead of having to take it off.

But as far as an iPod/iPhone/iPad display, not likely. I think it's more possible as a television if it was something that could be rolled up and out of the way since there is no battery to consider. Or maybe just to make it more portable and cost less to ship.

Note that Addabox stated "appears to be". He didn't state that a successful 7" device wasn't possible from Apple or anyone else. He even backed up his comment with evidence to support the current trend. The iPad is the most successful tablet on the market. There are plenty of other non-cheap 7" tablets that simply aren't making a dent.

The only tablet that is making any headway is the loss-leader Kindle Fire which is really a glorified eReader at this point.. Despite it's gain in the "tablet" market and it's retail price that is only 24 to 40% of an iPad it still sold well below the nearly year old iPad this past holiday quarter. I don't know of any supply issues that kept the sales of the Kindle Fire down.

Bottom line: So far there is no relevant tablet market, there is only an iPad market.


Nokia is a great example of thinking that creating an ostensibly complete product line that overs all HW needs is the way to ensure success.


PS: Also note the netbook market. Remember analysts saying that Apple needs to enter this market or risk losing what little market share they do have. They never touched it. They could have offered the best netbook on the planet but the didn't touch it. Where they smart to do so? I think so.

LMAO !!!!!!!

Do you really think this news will make it out of sites like AI?

You're either jealous, delusional or both.

Whilst cost is also a very important factor I genuinely mean lots of people (regular non techy people) ask me if Apple will ever produce a 7" because the iPad is too big for them. You can't really rely on current sales figures as any indication to be honest because the competition plain sucks. The iPad sells well because it's the best product on the market not necessarily because of the size. That plus Apple's brand awareness, brand loyalty due to good customer service, a focus on clean design, a great user experience etc etc...

I was trying to describe what this device could offer rather than analysing the competition because in all honesty they don't really compete.




I absolutely agree with what you're saying in regards to Samsung (& most other manufacturers) throwing everything out there and seeing what sticks.




Again... the numbers bear out due to the quality of the iPad, the ecosystem, the brand etc..




Again, I firmly agree (in part). Netbooks are a shitty use case, they were created to be cheap not to fulfil a real need. Android manufacturers may be positioning their 7" devices in the market for cost reasons but it's the use cases I'm more interested in and I think there are real use cases for a smaller device as I mentioned.

It's coming in the near future.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyols...eens-for-2012/

I don't understand your point. Apple is vulnerable if the don't make a 7" iPad? Vulnerable to what? Only having the money but not the market share, or are you suggesting that Apple will lose 10" iPad sales to 7" tablets even though for two years that hasn't happened?

I guess we can say the same thing about Apple needing a $400 notebook and a $999 tower Mac, too.

Apple doesn't have this tech in their labs? Seems odd that could possibly know this and would post about it here.

As for the flexible displays if they do find a market don't expect the user to be able to manipulate it. It's more practical use would be in a rigid form with a curved or angled casing.

Still waiting for some reasonable real world applications...