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iPad 3 to get haptic feedback (VIDEO + patent proof)

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
OK, first of all, did you know that tactile display technology is already existing and working in tablet form, on batteries? You really have to watch this video:

http://cnettv.cnet.com/senseg-demos-...-50115714.html
(if the link above doesn't work for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X-9-57qG9Y )

So, as you can see, this technology is real, and not even in some beta stage anymore but really working in a tablet and, as the Senseg guy said, to be released in consumer products within the next 12 months. That was in November 2011.

My guess is that the line "...And touch" and the finger in the photo of the iPad-event-invitation are referring to this very technology. And if you think about it, this really makes sense:
Why would Apple show the retina display (and lack of home button (if the iPad isn't held upside down)) in the invitation, if there isn't something more important to be revealed.

Well, if you ask me, we get to feel what we are touching on the iPad.
For example in Garageband, you could really feel the instruments, feel the friction of knobs and sliders.
In a painting software you would feel the paint, when writing stuff you would feel the keys of the keyboard. In games you would get a sense where the buttons and sticks (circlepads) are without having to look. In iBooks you would really get the sensation of turning paper pages. In combination with AppleTV you'd have the perfect gaming controller (and mic for Siri) because you could feel the buttons displayed on the iPad and so on. You get the point.
This kind of technology makes the experience so much more immersive and graspable. It's the missing link between touch displays and the user.
Maybe it doesn't come with the iPad 3, but it will for sure be implemented in every touch device of the future.

Even Apple itself knows that. They are holding a patent on such technology since April 2009 (!):
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...h_devices.html
This means they are at least investigating on this for the last 3 years, probably a little longer. Here are some quotes from the Patent:

Quote:
"Research has shown that providing the multi-touch surface with the ability to provide physical (haptic) feedback makes the multi-touch experience even more efficient and realistic to the user"

Quote:
"For example, physical keyboards provide a physical indication (a bump, for example) indicative of the home key. This physical sensation can not be provided by a conventional multi-touch system thereby forcing the user to visually locate the home key thereby making keyboard use less efficient and fatiguing."

So now we know that Apple is obviously interested in haptic feedback. And since the patent is 3 years old, it should be mature enough by now.

Also interesting to note is that a technology similar to Senseg's is developed by Disney (yes the Disney where Steve Jobs was a member of the board of directors!)

http://www.disneyresearch.com/resear...atouch_drp.htm

So tell me, why wouldn't Apple implement it? Battery drainage? Well, remember, the electro static field is only generated around the spot where the fingers touch, and only when they touch. So this shouldn't be a problem.
Cost maybe? I think Apple has the production quantities for reducing that to a minimum.
And the Senseg guy himself said, we would see the technology implemented in consumer products within the next 12 months.
And why oh why the mysterious "And touch" comment. Why do we really have to touch it? And why the finger in the photo?
post #2 of 18
Apple has a patent that could be allowed to block sexting.

The fact that they have patents is meaningless. Many never see the light of day.

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple has a patent that could be allowed to block sexting.

The fact that they have patents is meaningless. Many never see the light of day.

Have you even read the entire post? The patent is just further proof that Apple is interested in such technologies.
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zweimeter View Post

Have you even read the entire post? The patent is just further proof that Apple is interested in such technologies.

But is in no way confirmation of such technology being put in the iPad 3.

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post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But is in no way confirmation of such technology being put in the iPad 3.

Of course it isn't. What i meant by "patent proof" is, that apple is actually considering it.
If you had read the entire post, you would have seen that I never meant it to be considered as actual confirmation.
I'm sorry for the confusion, and have edited the tagline.
post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zweimeter View Post

Of course it isn't. What i meant by "patent proof" is, that apple is actually considering it.

I don't think I buy that.

Quote:
If you had read the entire post, you would have seen that I never meant it to be considered as actual confirmation.

Then you shouldn't have made the title a statement and you shouldn't have written "patent proof".

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post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't think I buy that.

Then you shouldn't have made the title a statement and you shouldn't have written "patent proof".

Well, originally I started it here with another tagline, before I even knew about the patent.
For me this is just further proof and another reason to spread the theory.

Maybe I should have taken my original title. But in my euphoria i thought, this story needs a tagline that grabs attention. You have to read my post to understand that a tactile display isn't far off.
If I just write "iPad to get haptic feedback?", people just skip that thread, answering the question with "no" for themselves. Well at least that's what I would do. ^^'
I'm sorry, and I have edited the title, but the new tagline just appears on my post, not the entire thread.
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zweimeter View Post

My guess is that the line "...And touch" and the finger in the photo of the iPad-event-invitation are referring to this very technology.

That seems quite plausible, the technology looks great. You could imagine Apple using it in Garageband to let you feel where the guitar strings are or the piano keys. They can even do it with the touch keyboard so that you can type more accurately. That definitely ties in with the event teaser - I wondered what they meant by mentioning touch and this is the most likely explanation.

Just getting the retina display didn't seem all that exciting to me but if they have haptic feedback too, that's going to be a huge selling point. The demo in the video of feeling different surfaces like gravel would add so much to some interactive apps. You could feel the pages of books when you turn them,

It would be huge in games. Mass Effect on the PC vibrates the controller on certain levels when you do planet scans and when you get near a point to mine, it shakes more. Mass Effect 3 is coming for the PC on March 6th and there is an iOS version coming (my guess is it might be announced at the event). I could see them implementing the scanning using haptic feedback. Loads of games have these types of feedback actually - the Batman games use it for unlocking encrypted areas.

Even to address the most common complaint about gaming, which is that you can't feel the controls so you have to look at them but your fingers are in the way. Being able to feel the edges of the buttons will be so much better. If they added a depth sensor to the Facetime camera, you could even get some Touchtime.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If they added a depth sensor to the Facetime camera, you could even get some Touchtime.

Oh jees, whether Apple approved or not you could guarantee an iPad3 would be a porn addicts go-to device. That's a big can of worms to open...
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post #10 of 18
Called it, though I'm sure I wasn't the first. Interestingly back then I was still thinking of the desktop, and I did hint at the Magic Trackpad if only by chance.

iPad hadn't been announced. Wow a few years does change ~everything~ ... Although I do refer to a tablet...

03-13-2009, 09:26 PM
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?p=1389864

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Give it 5 years for multi-touch on desktop to really mature... Hopefully then maybe the keyboard is just a blank slate which you do gestures and "type", has tactile/haptic as well as visual feedback, and there is no need for a separate mouse, say the right hand side (or left) is the space where you "mouse". Only Apple can pull it off within 5 years, but hopefully when the economy turns around fully in a few years more money can start to go back into R&D so maybe a small company will come in and "revolutionize" desktop input... Maybe in 5 years there's no more desktops, just tablets that dock into screens, these screens have these fold-out slates for multi-touch tactile/haptic input etc.
post #11 of 18
It would be absolutely phenomenal if there was finely localised physical feedback when you touch the screen. But this is the kind of thing that people will whine about if it is not in the iPad 3, so I'm not holding my breath.

Xbox360 vibration is good. My Mass Effect 3 preorder should show up in my mailbox sometime next week.

Unless...

Apple announces

iPad 3

with

Mass Effect 3 for iOS



Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

That seems quite plausible, the technology looks great. You could imagine Apple using it in Garageband to let you feel where the guitar strings are or the piano keys. They can even do it with the touch keyboard so that you can type more accurately. That definitely ties in with the event teaser - I wondered what they meant by mentioning touch and this is the most likely explanation.

Just getting the retina display didn't seem all that exciting to me but if they have haptic feedback too, that's going to be a huge selling point. The demo in the video of feeling different surfaces like gravel would add so much to some interactive apps. You could feel the pages of books when you turn them,

It would be huge in games. Mass Effect on the PC vibrates the controller on certain levels when you do planet scans and when you get near a point to mine, it shakes more. Mass Effect 3 is coming for the PC on March 6th and there is an iOS version coming (my guess is it might be announced at the event). I could see them implementing the scanning using haptic feedback. Loads of games have these types of feedback actually - the Batman games use it for unlocking encrypted areas.

Even to address the most common complaint about gaming, which is that you can't feel the controls so you have to look at them but your fingers are in the way. Being able to feel the edges of the buttons will be so much better. If they added a depth sensor to the Facetime camera, you could even get some Touchtime.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post

Called it, though I'm sure I wasn't the first. Interestingly back then I was still thinking of the desktop, and I did hint at the Magic Trackpad if only by chance.

iPad hadn't been announced. Wow a few years does change ~everything~ ... Although I do refer to a tablet...

03-13-2009, 09:26 PM
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?p=1389864

I'm no developer and don't pretend to have expertise in what it takes, so this question is for you Sunilramen: Is this the same type of touch response that's being described here?
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/03...-sdk-released/
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post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I wondered what they meant by mentioning touch and this is the most likely explanation.


Really? The most likely explanation? The most likely explanation couldn't possibly be that it's a simple reference to multi-touch??
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post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post

Unless... Apple announces iPad 3 with Mass Effect 3 for iOS

It won't be the full Mass Effect 3, it's a different game called Mass Effect Infiltrator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCI4rF1llqM

You'll have to get both.

It should be iOS exclusive for a short time before it goes over to Android.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy

Is this the same type of touch response that's being described here?

No, the Android vibration is what you find in the console controllers. The haptic feedback in the video is creating a force-field between the screen and finger in order to vary the perceived resistance, which has way more applications than a simple vibrating motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder

Really? The most likely explanation? The most likely explanation couldn't possibly be that it's a simple reference to multi-touch??

They said "We have something you really have to see. And touch". That could have just meant that it's a touch device so it's not just something to look at but the described haptic feedback would add so much to the device that they just can't leave it out now that the idea is floating around. Think of how disappointed they would make everyone.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

No, the Android vibration is what you find in the console controllers. The haptic feedback in the video is creating a force-field between the screen and finger in order to vary the perceived resistance, which has way more applications than a simple vibrating motor.

Hmmm...
This indicates it's more than simply vibrations. It specifically mentions "feeling" the texture of a game board, or experiencing the strum of a guitar.
http://cdn.androidpolice.com/wp-cont...2/image164.png
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/03...-sdk-released/

Weren't those the same general features described in the initial post in this thread? That's why I asked if it was similar, and if not what the actual difference was. It's something I hoped that Sunilraman or another developer could look at.
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post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Hmmm...
This indicates it's more than simply vibrations. It specifically mentions "feeling" the texture of a game board, or experiencing the strum of a guitar.

It vibrates the phone or screen using various actuators/motors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k6QkppZoNs

They just change the frequencies to make the vibrations feel different depending on what you do. The game board example isn't a touch sensation, it's the type of varied vibration you get as the ball in a pinball machine rolls over different surfaces. It will give a sharp judder as the ball collides with the paddle.

The screen feels exactly the same - like perfectly smooth glass. In the original example, they can vary the resistance of the screen so that if you scroll a page, you can actually feel resistance to it. When you rub over guitar strings, each string would pull back on your finger. On the Android one, your fingers would just slide right over no problem but on contacting each string, the entire phone would shake at a different frequency for each.

Games controllers have these programmable motors so it's not on/off. If you drive a car, they can give you a low rumble; if you get shot, it can give a sudden jolt; if you decrypt a sequence, it can be continuous vibration that varies in intensity. It's not a localised sensation though.
post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It vibrates the phone or screen using various actuators/motors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k6QkppZoNs

They just change the frequencies to make the vibrations feel different depending on what you do. The game board example isn't a touch sensation, it's the type of varied vibration you get as the ball in a pinball machine rolls over different surfaces. It will give a sharp judder as the ball collides with the paddle.

The screen feels exactly the same - like perfectly smooth glass. In the original example, they can vary the resistance of the screen so that if you scroll a page, you can actually feel resistance to it. When you rub over guitar strings, each string would pull back on your finger. On the Android one, your fingers would just slide right over no problem but on contacting each string, the entire phone would shake at a different frequency for each.

Games controllers have these programmable motors so it's not on/off. If you drive a car, they can give you a low rumble; if you get shot, it can give a sudden jolt; if you decrypt a sequence, it can be continuous vibration that varies in intensity. It's not a localised sensation though.

Thanks for the detailed response Marvin. Much appreciated. I should know how some of these companies fluff the PR to make it appear their creation does more than in actuality.

"Dynamic Effects: Todays mobile UIs take full advantage of the sensing and processing capabilities of the handsets to create dynamic and animated UIs. Immersions HD Integrator enables support for various elements throughout Android:

Expanded Effect Libraries: With HD Integrator, a branded UI can feel metallic, soft or springy; the user can feel the difference between subtle or strong cue.

Gesture Support: Gestures can be performed both on screen and/or with the phone itself -- HD Integrator supports both. Using the touchscreen interface as well as the accelerometer, gesturing can be enhanced with touch feedback.

Animation Support: UIs dynamically change based on content and user input. HD Integrator delivers continuous effects that transform animations into multi-modal experiences."
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post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Thanks for the detailed response Marvin. Much appreciated. I should know how some of these companies fluff the PR to make it appear their creation does more than in actuality.

"Dynamic Effects: Todays mobile UIs take full advantage of the sensing and processing capabilities of the handsets to create dynamic and animated UIs. Immersions HD Integrator enables support for various elements throughout Android"

The funniest part is that they always talk about Android as if it is going to behave the same way on 50 different types of device. Some Android devices don't even have vibration motors. They have an app to demo all the effects:

https://market.android.com/details?i...tPreview&hl=en

but you can see in the comments not every phone gives the same experience. The big problem with advanced features like this is that there can never be a guarantee the Android device you choose will have the necessary hardware built-in and if it does, it may not behave in a good way.

The actuators will all be in different places from one device to another so if you strum guitar strings on one phone, it will feel different on another. The screen tech on the other hand should be consistent between devices. I really hope Apple uses tech like this eventually. Kids love interacting with touch tablets and you can imagine them being able to make children's books like the ones with different textured materials inside. There are so many possibilities for this.
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