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Apple's third-gen iPad rumored with more RAM, A5X dual-core CPU and LTE - Page 5

post #161 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

That's what consumers do. We demand things. Companies listen to our bitching, and they implement what they want.

I don't. I think like a human being. I have wants and desires but I don't think I'm entitled to them simply because the though crosses my mind.

Quote:
You think like an analyst, breaking down costs, what it means to Apple's bottom line, etc.
I'm thinking like a consumer. I want, want, want.

I think like an engineer. I think like someone who wants to understand why something may or may not happen given the available set of data. My desire for wanting 128GB in an iPad has no barring on my determination that the HiDPI display and accompanying HW may not make it feasible for Apple to offer double the storage at the current price points this year.

A little pragmatism will go a long way and you won't be so upset when the Goodship Lollipop doesn't make to port for tea time with the Mad Hatter.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #162 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

There have been plenty of cases where people bitched about something and Apple listened (i.e. removing the backlight on the revamp of the MacBook Air, then adding it back with the most recent refresh).

People that think like you said that it was a business move and they were trying to save money or that it wasn't feasible. Those of us who appreciated the feature saw it as Apple being cheap and taking away a feature that we loved.

You nor really anyone outside of Apple clearly knows why Apple removes features or adds certain features at certain times. I'm sure to some degree it is because of user demand (bitching).

The more important question. Would the Air have sold significantly less if it did not have keyboard backlighting?


Quote:
In the grand scheme of things, I think that most consumers in general are "want" while most analysts think like you.

In my general life I don't hear anyone demanding anything in particular of Apple. Mostly on tech forums do people really care all that much.
post #163 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't. I think like a human being. I have wants and desires but I don't think I'm entitled to them simply because the though crosses my mind.


I think like an engineer. I think like someone who wants to understand why something may or may not happen given the available set of data. My desire for wanting 128GB in an iPad has no barring on my determination that the HiDPI display and accompanying HW may not make it feasible for Apple to offer double the storage at the current price points this year.

A little pragmatism will go a long way and you won't be so upset when the Goodship Lollipop doesn't make to port for tea time with the Mad Hatter.

You make it seem like I think Apple is doomed or something if they don't do what I want. I know that my every request wont be met. Apple is getting $600 of my money tomorrow no matter what.

They have already won.
post #164 of 189
You have to put up the money to support your wants and desires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I'm thinking like a consumer. I want, want, want.
post #165 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Then explain to use why you think you are justified in demanding what and when a company releases a product if you don't think it's fucked up to think you have that entitlement as a consumer.

Are you in your right mind? Who the fuck first of all demanded when apple should release the iPad? Did anyone here demand apple change their product cycles to fit our needs? Jesus Christ...

Who also demanded what they release? What are the big deal requests that have befallen on poor apple, I didn't see anyone demanding anything particularly onerous or futuristic, dual epaper and LCD screens, touch reactive screens, specially pretreated non glare glass, major os overhauls, near field communicators, rfids, security via voice recognition or retina's in the eyes. And even if they had done so it's a damn tech forum, people are justified in running a bit wild with their requests.

People merely said that ok you are selling us a device that can do so much, but the storage is so shit in the entry model(s) we might not be even able to do 1/10th of what we d like.

It's the right of customers to demand, they do it in car fora, in electrical appliances fora, in apparel fora, why is somehow apple exempt from all that?

And what big effing deal product is apple providing us that we should just shut up and say, apple knows best. Jobs had the foresight to create a very useful and practical device to take advantage of the slate form factor and the touch screen and now apple is incrementally making it better. The ipad was and is great as an idea and as an execution of the idea. Should we bow down and kiss their feet for sticking in a much better display (which someone else invented btw...but anyway apple is a systems integrator), cause iPad 3 is pretty much this, a great display, not much to write home on ram and CPU, and seriously crippled in terms of storage as it seems from the rumours so far?

If some of you guys, particularly you, who are otherwise very intelligent people but when it comes to apple you are delusional, if a few of you here had come off your high horse and jut said granted, storage is shit to be the same as 3 years ago, to be rhe same as the iPod nano, and to be the same as a low end smart phone, and conceded this point, the discussion would have moved on to something sane, other the insanity of having to debate the obvious...
post #166 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

...come off your high horse...

Says the guy who feels justified in demanding what Apple releases.

PS: How's that matte Mac petition working out for you? Sure you don't want one for the iPad, too? After all, if you demand it they'll do it.
demand
an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right.

want
have a desire to possess or do (something); wish for. And yet you can't see how you're entitlement makes you look. Who the fuck are you to demand any company bend to your specific self interest over their self interests?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #167 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I didn't see anyone demanding anything particularly onerous or futuristic, dual paper and LCD screens, touch reactive screens, specially pretreated non glare glass, major os overhauls, near field communicators, rfids, security via voice recognition or retina's in the eyes.

You'd be surprised.

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And even if they had done so it's a damn tech forum, people are justified in running a bit wild with their requests

Not when they behave the way they do when they don't get their requests (which used to be demands, apparently, but are now requests).

Quote:
It's the right of customers to demand, they do it in car fora, in electrical appliances fora, in apparel fora, why is somehow apple exempt from all that?

As I stated earlier, because of how they behave afterward. People of course have the right to ask for features. They don't have the right to be outlandish with their requests or whine about them when they don't get them. So we try to temper their outlandishness down to realistic expectations, and that's all we're doing here.

Vote with your wallet. That's how everything works. If it really matters to you and they don't give it to you, buy from someone who does.

Quote:
seriously crippled in terms of storage as it seems from the rumours so far?

I've not read that at all. I assume 16/32/64 for storage, about which no one has complained, really. I can see these numbers being a barrier for those who want to replace their iPod (original) with an iPad, but that's a very small market segment.

It would be nice if we saw the 16GB iPad 2 stay on at $399 and the iPad 3 start at $499 with 32/64/128, but I don't expect it to happen at all, and I certainly won't be upset if it doesn't.

Quote:
granted, storage is shit to be the same as 3 years ago,

Except I don't believe that, so I won't say it.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #168 of 189
@tallest skill in this thread today I didn't hear outlandish demands though, and I did hear quite a few people rightfully complain about storage. We shall see tomorrow about the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You have to put up the money to support your wants and desires.

I will be glad if I can put my money for a 128gb iPad tomorrow, I feel with flash prices these days, and after 2 going to 3 years as an iPad customers apple should offer me a capacity to last me comfortably for the next couple of years and not cap me at 64gbs just so they release a 128gb iPhone a few months down the line. All the more so since they won't offer me a sd slot to expand to my needs.

If I sense that they are intentionally crippling my storage and not future proofing their product, if I sense that they trying to pull something on me as a customer as in snow leopard they forced me to abandostir for the buggy lion with ios crap to get basic syncing I was already paying for with mobile me with iCloud, I won't be a happy customer anymore. And as much as I dislike google's mentality and practises my hard earned cash is going to them next time on my next tablet, and who knows maybe os too.
post #169 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It would be nice if we saw the 16GB iPad 2 stay on at $399 and the iPad 3 start at $499 with 32/64/128, but I don't expect it to happen at all, and I certainly won't be upset if it doesn't.

And that's all I've been saying all along. I wish Apple would do this. That would be ideal "in my eyes".

But as I said before, I have set aside $600 for an iPad 3, so I will buy whatever Wi-Fi model is at that price point. Simple as that.

Just because I WANT them to increase storage capacities across the board doesn't necessarily mean that they'll do it, but I don't think it's out of line to even DISCUSS the possibility.
post #170 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I think like an engineer. I think like someone who wants to understand why something may or may not happen given the available set of data. My desire for wanting 128GB in an iPad has no barring on my determination that the HiDPI display and accompanying HW may not make it feasible for Apple to offer double the storage at the current price points this year.

A little pragmatism will go a long way and you won't be so upset when the Goodship Lollipop doesn't make to port for tea time with the Mad Hatter.

You might be an engineer but when it come to apple most of the time you think like a religious phanatic...

You constantly twist the discussion they way it suits you, even if apple cannot economically use 128gb (which as I told you before they very well can when their competitors are selling bellow cost, apple can too cut their margins down a bit, god knows they have content to sell via the iPad to make up for it), they have the option to add an sd slot for example. That's not unfeasible form an engineering stand point, they don't want to do it, because they want in two years the storage they offer to be obsolete and have people buying again, as a consumer this does not make me too happy.

But forget accepting lower margins, forget the Sd card slot, as an engineer do you really expect us to believe that the no one purchaser of ram on the world, with unpreccedented negotiating power for lower prices cannot afford an extra 16gb to raise their entry model after three years cause financially this is not pragmatic for them? Again you chose what to reply to by answering only to the max storage demands, and conveniently discarded the issue of the crippling low storage of the entry model that's apparently been the same for 3 iterations, an apple first, I don't think they have ever retained the same storage for a computer/iPod/device the same for 2 going to 3 years.

And typically you end the post with rude sarcasm for anyone who doesn't share your point of view, and are apparently lunatics in your book. Great stuff...
post #171 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

And that's all I've been saying all along. I wish Apple would do this. That would be ideal "in my eyes".

That's all everyone but myapplelove has been saying except the guy you were agreeing with.

Quote:
Just because I WANT them to increase storage capacities across the board doesn't necessarily mean that they'll do it, but I don't think it's out of line to even DISCUSS the possibility.

You should also DISCUSS the possibilities as to why this might not happen.

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post #172 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I will be glad if I can put my money for a 128gb iPad tomorrow, I feel with flash prices these days,

Yes have you seen the prices of flash storage these days? Who else offers 128GB of internal flash storage?

Quote:
and after 2 going to 3 years as an iPad customers apple should offer me a capacity to last me comfortably for the next couple of years and not cap me at 64gbs just so they release a 128gb iPhone a few months down the line.

Absolutely Apple has a nefarious plan to deny you 128GB to force you to buy a new iPad. That's all it is. You are so smart you don't let them pull one over on you........

Quote:
If I sense that they are intentionally crippling my storage and not future proofing their product, if I sense that they trying to pull something on me as a customer as in snow leopard they forced me to abandostir for the buggy lion with ios crap to get basic syncing I was already paying for with mobile me with iCloud, I won't be a happy customer anymore. And as much as I dislike google's mentality and practises my hard earned cash is going to them next time on my next tablet, and who knows maybe os too.

Rational conversation has clearly come to any end.
post #173 of 189
That's all I'm talking saying. They could increase the storage and at the same time why would they have to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You should also DISCUSS the possibilities as to why this might not happen.
post #174 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You should also DISCUSS the possibilities as to why this might not happen.

Listen "Sheldon", I think you've already done a god job at that
post #175 of 189
Are you really even looking at what you are saying?

Apple's competitors are selling below cost and they are generally selling devices with 8GB or 16GB internal storage. You think Apple should be able to easily ship 128GB internal storage?

You don't see the flaw in your logic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

You constantly twist the discussion they way it suits you, even if apple cannot economically use 128gb (which as I told you before they very well can when their competitors are selling bellow cost, apple can too cut their margins down a bit
post #176 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

even if apple cannot economically use 128gb (which as I told you before they very well can when their competitors are selling bellow cost, apple can too cut their margins down a bit, god knows they have content to sell via the iPad to make up for it), they have the option to add an add an sd slot for example. That not unfeasible form an engineering stand point, they don't want to do it, because they want in two years e storage they offer to be obsolete and have people buying again, as a consumer this does not make me too happy.

So your argument is that because they can do it they should? That's rational to you? Hint: It's not. Now if you said 'I hope they offer a 128GB model tomorrow at the same price points... or even lower... whilst bring us the HiDPI display that would be great"... but you didn't. I did, others did, you didn't.

Quote:
crippling low storage of the entry model that's apparently been the same for 3 iterations, an apple first.

So now it's not that 64GB isn't enough but 16GB is crippling despite the sales over 2 years. Good one¡

Quote:
And typically you d the post with rinse sarcasm for anyone who doesn't share your point of view, and are apparently lunatics in your book. Great stuff...

I do use sarcasm, especially with people who are talking shit, but that doesn't mean they have to share my PoV. I disagree on many topics with many posters here I've come to know as friends. I only poke and prod the ones the one that come across to have no consideration or respect for anything or anyone but themselves. By saying that a company should do what you demand regardless of how it affects them or how it would affect their customer base puts you squarely in that category.


PS: I know you have the money to buy me an iPad 3 so I demand you do. I feel justified in saying that.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #177 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Listen "Sheldon", I think you've already done a god job at that

1) Are you trying to make a personal attack there?

2) I also think I made a good go at seeing why doubling the NAND might not happen but I'm sure I've missed many points. What's to fear from from seeing the big big picture? It doesn't lessen your desires but it can ground them.

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post #178 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Yes have you seen the prices of flash storage these days? Who else offers 128GB of internal flash storage?

Absolutely Apple has a nefarious plan to deny you 128GB to force you to buy a new iPad. That's all it is. You are so smart you don't let them pull one over on you........

Rational conversation has clearly come to any end.

oh yeah, why? Didn't they pimp iCloud via lion, and they forced people to upgrade by withholding it form sl? What's irrational in what I am saying? I was paying MobileMe for two years and all of a sudden when it became a free service I was disallowed to use it in snow leopard, the .6 version of os x and I had to be forced to upgrade to .7 to use a service I d been paying for so long, a service which by appke's own admission was (at least Steve had the guts to say it upfront...) wasn't any good to begin with, just to have the benefit to keep syncing my data? Where's the irrationality in what I am saying other than I confronting your apparent denial? Or it irrational that I am contemplating switching to a different manufacturer in the future? Or is it irrational that by not offering an Sd card upgrade option, and by keeping iPad storage without upgrade for three years (and who's doing this, the company who can buy flash cheaper than anyone in the world) they forcing me in a cycle of upgrades where my device at 64gbs is close to obsolete in two years?

As for your first two points, you know who offers 128gb internal storage these days? Apple do so. They do so on the iPod touch, and they do so in the MacBook air? Yes I ve seen prices for flash these days, they don't warrant the top specked iPad model to stag spate at 64gb for three years, no one is asking them for a 256 gb model, they just ask them to match the low end MacBook air.

Of course they have a plan to force people to upgrade more often, why wouldn't they? Most companies in the tech world know what to provide and what to withhold to ensure consumers upgrade and spend more.
post #179 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Are you trying to make a personal attack there?

2) I also think I made a good go at seeing why doubling the NAND might not happen but I'm sure I've missed many points. What's to fear from from seeing the big big picture? It doesn't lessen your desires but it can ground them.

It was a joke alluding to the fact that you already have discussed the downsides in this thread and that your analytical behavior reminds me of Sheldon Cooper

It wasn't meant as an attack, relax
post #180 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Whatever the outcome, I'm buying whatever $600 will get me tomorrow.

If you only have $600 your argument of letting the geeks have the cutting edge tech and leave the cheapskates to the old model holds no water. You are going to have to choose between storage and cell capability.

Those retired seniors saved their money and can afford whatever model they select. You won't be selecting. You will be settling. Big hat no cattle.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #181 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I was paying MobileMe for two years and all of a sudden when it became a free service I was disallowed to use it in snow leopard

MobileMe was never a free service but they did extend everyone's MobileMe service until June 2012 for free. This is usable on Snow Leopard.

Apple's move to iCloud is a new service. It's a free service. In many ways it's based off of MobileMe but they are not one and the same. Because you paid for MobileMe doesn't mean that Apple has to offer you the same services under iCloud. It's a new start with less storage than the paid MobileMe account and is only supported by Lion. It's really not hard to fathom their reasoning.

It would be nice if MobileMe was extended for another year (paid or unpaid) so those on SL could still continue with it as I think 2012 is early to drop the service, but it's irrational to think a company doesn't have that choice when your agreement with them was for 1 year, not forever.

It's also irrational to say Apple forced you to do anything. You don't like a product you don't buy it or continuing using it. You don't think Apple is being faithful by their Mac Elite by getting in new Mac users and getting a way overdue handle on how to run a cloud service that's fine, you have the right to go elsewhere. No one is demanding you use their products. It's really that simple.

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post #182 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

As for your first two points, you know who offers 128gb internal storage these days? Apple do so. They do so on the iPod touch, and they do so in the MacBook air?

Can you link to the 128GB iPod Touch? How much does a 128GB MBA cost? Versus the cost of an iPad.

Quote:
Of course they have a plan to force people to upgrade more often, why wouldn't they? Most companies in the tech world know what to provide and what to withhold to ensure consumers upgrade and spend more.

The problem with your rationality here is that you rule out the fact that technology and component costs change year over year. Its not simply about forcing customer to upgrade. Technology improves prices change. That is the way its always been.
post #183 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Are you really even looking at what you are saying?

Apple's competitors are selling below cost and they are generally selling devices with 8GB or 16GB internal storage. You think Apple should be able to easily ship 128GB internal storage?

You don't see the flaw in your logic?

Take amazon in particular, and amazon has nowhere near the clout in flash purchasing power and bulk deals, as apple must be buying, what about x100 more flash for their products than amazon. So yes I expect apple to start at 32gb, and not stick to 16gb because simply others cannot much them in the price they get their flash, so apple say, why raise capacity if others can't much us anyway, let's keep it the same for 3 years in a row, an just raise the margins. And yes I do also expect 128gbs for the top spec model, I don't expect it to have half the storage of the air, I don't expect it to not much the iPod touch, and I am fully aware that the iPads size is not the iPhones so they can stick two 64gb sticks instead of having to wait and lay up for the recent 128gb single chips debuted by toshi 3 months ago.

But you also missed my point with amazon and selling bellow cost. I am conveinced apple are selling the iPad at a rather good margin of profit. Maybe not as high as say MacBooks, but a very apple like margin. But apple are also a very big content provider, very comparable to what amazon has to offer by their services via their devices. Yet apple dont't seem to be so willing to cut their margins on the iPad a bit, let alone sell at cost which of course I don't expect them to. But it seems they want to have both great profit margins by selling iPads, as well as great profit margins by selling the content via the iPads. Which is all good and well to maximise profit they are corporation, but let's not pretend that of they opted to raise after three years the entry model to 32gb they would take any serious hit in their margins...
post #184 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

...but let's not pretend that of they opted to raise after three years the entry model to 32gb they would take any serious hit in their margins...

Let's not pretend that you're only suggesting they raise the 16GB model to 32GB. You demand all three models to get double the capacity for the same price points. You mention the Kindle Fire but have you tested the NAND? Is it the same quality NAND? Capacity isn't the only measure.

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post #185 of 189
@solipsism

Basic syncing functionality be it via mm or iCloud, esp to former subscribers of a sub par service (by apple's own admission) such as mm, should have been extended to the previous .1 version of os x, unless an important technical reason demanded otherwise. There was no apparent technical difficulty in supporting iCloud on snow leopard, other than that they wanted to push lion aggressively. It's not a matter of Mac elite (what on earth are you on about btw...) to demand from apple to support their previous.1 increment of os x with a modicum of respect to users, that is without forcing them to upgrade in order to have pretty much the same functionality in syncing they used to have before. It's very apparent they pimped lion via iCloud which is an indispensable product, as the cloud is across platforms nowadays. I didn't want to have to upgrade to lion just cause mm will soon end, I wanted to be allowed to have a choice when I would upgrade to it. But by withdrawing such an important service as syncing cross device from snow leopard they made lion a nessecity. It's a testament to how shit lion is that users are willing to sacrifice syncing their contacts, mail, calendars, etc. across their ecosystem of devices and are downgrading to sl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Can you link to the 128GB iPod Touch? How much does a 128GB MBA cost? Versus the cost of an iPad.



The problem with your rationality here is that you rule out the fact that technology and component costs change year over year. Its not simply about forcing customer to upgrade. Technology improves prices change. That is the way its always been.

I wonder why you conveniently ommited my my points on sl, lion, and iCloud...

In terms of costs for each of these devices, I will have to wait for a tear down of iPad 2 and cost analysis, and of course I am not naive to not factor in the r&d that goes I all these products. Like I said the top spec iPad should equal the low end MBA in terms of storage.

Point taken, the last one, although it doesn't nessecarily go against what I am saying, because flash prices have dropped in the last three years, despite some spikes, and maybe not enough of e drop they expected, that's why it's inexplicable to me how the no 1 player in flah purchases has to keep the same storage for three generations of their product...
post #186 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

...should have been extended [...] Like I said the top spec iPad should equal the low end MBA in terms of storage.

All these should's. If you really feel that way they go ahead and start a class action lawsuit. I don't agree with your self-serving demands but I support your decision to feel strongly about them.

BTW, you got your wish already because the high-end iPad is already the same capacity as the low-end MBA... as if there is some cosmic law that would dictates such things.


Quote:
that's why it's inexplicable to me how the no 1 player in flah purchases has to keep the same storage for three generations of their product...

"no 1 player" means they should give away flash? It means they are getting it at half the price they were a year ago to meet your demands? You are drawing some crazy conclusions. You seriously need to look at more than your myopic desires before posting.

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post #187 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Let's not pretend that you're only suggesting they raise the 16GB model to 32GB. You demand all three models to get double the capacity for the same price points. You mention the Kindle Fire but have you tested the NAND? Is it the same quality NAND? Capacity isn't the only measure.

I never talked about the same price points, don't put words in my mouth, I would be happy with 32/64/128 with the first two models retaining the price and the 128 one taking say a $50 spike over last year. I don't think what with retina display people would have minded a small increase in the top model, ESP. Since the competition doesn't even have something comparable and I am sure people such as myself have been waiting for a long time for the iPad to get decent storage capacities when the touches and the airs have had this for year. In my view 128gb, and at last I think we ll agree here, is the capacity that, regardless of price, will bring the iPad tot the level it aims for as a post pc device. Avout 20-30 gbs for music/podcasts/vidcasts/itunesu, about 10gb for local synced server file storage(Dropbox, own server) for work documents, PDFs, excels, reference material, etc, about 10-20 gbs for apps, 10gbs for mag, books, newspaper subscriptions, rich media books, about 10gbs for video and photo content, about 10 gbs for offline movie content, about 10gbs for games (5-6 of them, and by games I mean very broadly cause I am not a gamer, a few board games and quizzes, one or two retina goodies for fun) and some change for work specific apps and their content.
post #188 of 189
Would you all relax? It's coming tomorrow! I'm excited. I'm not disappointed, because I'm after a better iPad. I don't need it to meet some hardware junkie's wet dream manufactured by the rumor mill.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #189 of 189
Quote:
but let's not pretend that of they opted to raise after three years the entry model to 32gb they would take any serious hit in their margins...

Actually, they would take a $100 US hit per. Because instead of paying for the more expensive model, people would buy 1 tier lower.
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