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iPhone 4S with iOS 5.1 begins advertising AT&T HSDPA as '4G'

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
iPhone 4S users on AT&T who update to iOS 5.1 will see their network indicator state they are on a "4G" network when utilizing the carrier's high-speed HSDPA network.

Apple released iOS 5.1 on Wednesday, and one of the features listed for the update is an "updated AT&T network indicator." But Apple's release notes gave no further indication as to what that means.

However, after upgrading to iOS 5.1, AT&T users connected to the carrier's HSPA+ network on an iPhone 4S will see a "4G" icon in the upper left hand corner.

Rumors first arose last October that AT&T wanted Apple to add a "4G" indicator to the iPhone 4S status bar. That's because the iPhone 4S is capable of 4G-like speeds, even though HSDPA is not a "true" fourth-generation network.

The change will allow AT&T to further differentiate itself from competitors Verizon and Sprint, which run CDMA networks and do not offer HSDPA connectivity. However, "true" 4G remains exclusive to long-term evolution devices, like the third-generation iPad unveiled by Apple on Wednesday.




A redesigned antenna that allows for faster HSDPA connections is one of the major features of the new iPhone 4S that debuted last October. However, at the company's keynote presentation, Apple executives did not outright declare that the iPhone 4S is a 4G phone.

U.S. carriers AT&T and T-Mobile have advertised their own HSPA+ networks as having "4G" speeds, even though they aren't true fourth-generation technology. AT&T is currently rolling out a true LTE 4G network in the U.S., and is available about 75 million people, while Verizon's LTE network reaches over 200 million people.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 50
Unbearable. See ya in court AT&T.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #3 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Unbearable. See ya in court AT&T.

Besides there being no law governing what a cardinal number followed by a consonant means even the ITU says HSPA+ is 4G.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #4 of 50
Big mistake because now people will say that AT&T's "4G" is slow when compared to other, real 4G.

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post #5 of 50
Wow, I'm a bit surprised Apple would cave and help AT&T with it's campaign of disinformation about 4G. Apple is usually pretty good at remaining independent of its carrier partners.
post #6 of 50
Quote:

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #7 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Big mistake because now people will say that AT&T's "4G" is slow when compared to other, real 4G.

It's actually pretty fast. I was surprised when my friend's 4G Windows phone on Verizon was slower than my 4S on At&t in DC Metro area. Maybe it depends on areas.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #8 of 50
Wow, this just makes everyone look slimy, including Apple.
post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woode View Post

Wow, this just makes everyone look slimy, including Apple.

Why? 4G is an entirely invented term. It has no meaning. Lots of other phones market as 4G with this tech, why should Apple restrict itself artificially?
post #10 of 50
deleted as another thread answered me.
post #11 of 50
We were told previously that they were going to do this. For those areas where AT&T has implemented hsdpa, service should be significantly faster than before. I'm getting the 4G symbol but not really seeing the increased speed that was promised with the hsdpa service. I really don't care either way, as long as I can talk and browse or send emails at the same time.
post #12 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woode View Post

Wow, this just makes everyone look slimy, including Apple.

Apple is only using AT&Ts designation for AT&Ts network. This is a business decision really to compete with the other AT&T phones that are labeled 4G.

AT&T is a US cell phone company, of course it's slimy. I'm surprised that the US cell phone industry isn't used as an example for slimy in the dictionary.
post #13 of 50
I don't know why people are crying "lawsuit" over this. Other HSPA+ phones have been marketed as 4g devices and the ITU has classified it as 4g technology. There won't be any lawsuits nor will there be any merrits for one.

It shouldn't make any difference at all. Personally, I'd rather it be marked by speed rather than G. Although the iphone 4s is capable of up to 14.4mbps download speeds, it's far from reality on ATT's network. However, LTE 4g speeds on ATT are pretty impressive, at least it is for now.
post #14 of 50
Don't other companies already do this??? Calling their "3G" technology "4G"? Tmobile comes to mind here but I could be mistaken.
post #15 of 50
HSPA(+) marketed as 4G in the US..... HAhahahahhaahhaaaaaaa...

(nobody has been ever checking the 3GPP/GSMA over there?! really?! C'mon....)

Oh, and... I am really curious what kind of technology is used to magically turn iPhones over night from 3G phones into 4G phones....


PS: I am not trolling here, but I cannot help myself when I see this HSPA+ marked as 4G. How ATT will then market LTE? 4.5G? or 5G? Or? How about LTE-A? Jeeeezz....
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post #16 of 50
So what about every other network in the world which uses HSDPA? Are they going to get the 4G treatment as well, or will every network apart from AT&T continue to show 3G?

If the latter, that's grossly misleading.
post #17 of 50
Does Apple really have a choice here? AT&T is calling their service 4G, and competing phones using the same technology are calling themselves "4G".

Explains why the Apple iPad video says "4G LTE" which sounded like a Verizon commercial
post #18 of 50
My 4s did get a speed increase from the 5.1 update. I went from 1down 1up to 5/1 . It could have just been a tower update or something but it did increase my speeds.
post #19 of 50
Haha, LTE isn't even 4G, and that comes from the people who make it (GSMA)

The only 4G is LTE-Advanced, a technology has to reach above 100Mbps to be classed as 4G, LTE in the US is NO WHERE near 100Mbps.

My 4S reaches 11Mbps down, which is faster then most get on "4G" LTE.
post #20 of 50
It was one thing when they called LTE 4G (really 3.9G)
It was one thing when they called HSPA+ 4G (really 3.5/3.75G)
but we accepted and moved on.

But calling HSDPA 4G???!!?!? And Apple of all people?!?

WTF.
I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #21 of 50
When millions of people's iPhones switch from 3G to "4G" without any speed increase, AT&T is going to get lots of negative publicity.

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post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintstryfe View Post

Why? 4G is an entirely invented term. It has no meaning. Lots of other phones market as 4G with this tech, why should Apple restrict itself artificially?

Correct.
post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therbo View Post

Haha, LTE isn't even 4G, and that comes from the people who make it (GSMA)

The only 4G is LTE-Advanced, a technology has to reach above 100Mbps to be classed as 4G, LTE in the US is NO WHERE near 100Mbps.

My 4S reaches 11Mbps down, which is faster then most get on "4G" LTE.

Correct, but then again most posters know nothing of the Engineering behind it.
post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

When millions of people's iPhones switch from 3G to "4G" without any speed increase, AT&T is going to get lots of negative publicity.

Yeah... Its just a bit weird. I recently upgraded from a 4 to a 4S (my 4 died) and I have noticed its generally much quicker at rendering pages both on the network and wifi but to call it 4G? My buddy works for TMo and he routinely gets crazy speed on whatever Droid he's using... absolutely murdering my 4S... and they're not even on LTE yet. Maybe ATT would be better served by delivering blistering speeds instead of advertising them.
post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therbo View Post

Haha, LTE isn't even 4G, and that comes from the people who make it (GSMA)

Who are the people that make GSMA? Where is there definition of 4G? Does the ITU's definition no longer count?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintstryfe View Post

Why? 4G is an entirely invented term. It has no meaning. Lots of other phones market as 4G with this tech, why should Apple restrict itself artificially?

Fine. My iPhone has G telephony. No one can tell me otherwise.

Just like my television has a contrast ratio of :1.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #27 of 50
For those of us "Grandfathered" unlimited data plan users on AT&T

According to AT&T's recent policy statement those of us with 3G date use will be throttled after 3GB of data, while those with "4G" use will get 5GB before the slowdown occurs.

So will those 4S users running IOS 5.1 suddenly find themselves with 2GB more data to play with???



Now there's a lawsuit waitng to be filed if not...
post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

It was one thing when they called LTE 4G (really 3.9G)
It was one thing when they called HSPA+ 4G (really 3.5/3.75G)
but we accepted and moved on.

But calling HSDPA 4G???!!?!? And Apple of all people?!?

WTF.

Apple and AT&T are only following the official ruling by the ITU from Dec 2010. The ITU now recognizes HSPA+, WIMAX, and even 4G LTE as "4G". Before this ruling, only 4G LTE ADVANCED was considered "4G".....and we are still a few years away from seeing 4G LTE ADVANCED.
post #29 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by calfoto View Post

For those of us "Grandfathered" unlimited data plan users on AT&T

According to AT&T's recent policy statement those of us with 3G date use will be throttled after 3GB of data, while those with "4G" use will get 5GB before the slowdown occurs.

So will those 4S users running IOS 5.1 suddenly find themselves with 2GB more data to play with???



Now there's a lawsuit waitng to be filed if not...

Wow. You just made a really good point. They did say 4G has a cap 2GB higher than 3G. And now my unlimited-plan iPhone 4S claims to be "4G."

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post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Wow. You just made a really good point. They did say 4G has a cap 2GB higher than 3G. And now my unlimited-plan iPhone 4S claims to be "4G."

Get to downloading. You could be the lynchpin that sets this whole thing in motion. Heck, you could go down in history as one of the names counted in the "first wave of lawsuits ending the telecoms' unlimited defrauding".

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by calfoto View Post

For those of us "Grandfathered" unlimited data plan users on AT&T

According to AT&T's recent policy statement those of us with 3G date use will be throttled after 3GB of data, while those with "4G" use will get 5GB before the slowdown occurs.

So will those 4S users running IOS 5.1 suddenly find themselves with 2GB more data to play with???



Now there's a lawsuit waitng to be filed if not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Wow. You just made a really good point. They did say 4G has a cap 2GB higher than 3G. And now my unlimited-plan iPhone 4S claims to be "4G."

Very good point indeed. I wonder what an AT&T representative would say...
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by calfoto View Post

For those of us "Grandfathered" unlimited data plan users on AT&T

According to AT&T's recent policy statement those of us with 3G date use will be throttled after 3GB of data, while those with "4G" use will get 5GB before the slowdown occurs.

So will those 4S users running IOS 5.1 suddenly find themselves with 2GB more data to play with???



Now there's a lawsuit waitng to be filed if not...

I love this post.
post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2992 View Post

Oh, and... I am really curious what kind of technology is used to magically turn iPhones over night from 3G phones into 4G phones....

The same kind of technology that turns a black iPhone into a non-white iPhone.
Different words can mean the same thing.
post #34 of 50
somewhere in the keynote mentioned that the highest speed on LTE could reach up to 73mbps. anyone knows it is on ATT or VERIZON network?
post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

It's actually pretty fast. I was surprised when my friend's 4G Windows phone on Verizon was slower than my 4S on At&t in DC Metro area. Maybe it depends on areas.

I have to call you on your BS. Verizon does not carry any 4g windows phone. Hell they do not even carry a windows phone anymore.u
post #36 of 50
Much ado about nothing.

AT&T calls HSPA+ 4G, and I like seeing when I actually have coverage.
post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

Much ado about nothing.

AT&T calls HSPA+ 4G, and I like seeing when I actually have coverage.

AT&T has been employing this on other phones since at least 2011. The problem will arise because 1) people only care about the iPhone, and 2) they are applying it to HSDPA Category 10, which is not HSPA+. Now AT&T has every right to call this 4G so long as they don't associate it with the ITU definition, but even then they remodeled the requirements back in 2010 and you still see people on tech forums saying only LTE Advance is 4G.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #38 of 50
i don't know what the actual 4G speed is, but here in ATL I have noticed that my 4S has gone from 3mbs to 7mbs. and that's before the update! so who knows?
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

Much ado about nothing.

AT&T calls HSPA+ 4G, and I like seeing when I actually have coverage.

Yep. But the thing is, the 4S seems to NOT be an HSPA+ device, rather plain HSPA.... There's the possible rub.

People have been using 3G (or 3.5G at best) for HSPA speeds (apparently up to 14.4Mbps down) and grudgingly went with HSPA+ being 4G, which somehow makes sense since people easily think LTE = 4G. Since HSPA+ can achieve or even exceed current LTE speeds calling it 4G is just about fine.

But to take a technology (HSPA), which was to be superseded by a newer 4G technology (LTE) and call it 4G seems to me like marketing stretching the truth a little too far. Honestly it's not Apple's blame. I think they are just doing what the operator is asking them to do.

Regs, Jarkko
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Yep. But the thing is, the 4S seems to NOT be an HSPA+ device, rather plain HSPA.... There's the possible rub.

People have been using 3G (or 3.5G at best) for HSPA speeds (apparently up to 14.4Mbps down) and grudgingly went with HSPA+ being 4G, which somehow makes sense since people easily think LTE = 4G. Since HSPA+ can achieve or even exceed current LTE speeds calling it 4G is just about fine.

But to take a technology (HSPA), which was to be superseded by a newer 4G technology (LTE) and call it 4G seems to me like marketing stretching the truth a little too far. Honestly it's not Apple's blame. I think they are just doing what the operator is asking them to do.

Regs, Jarkko

"Apple hasn't stated what baseband is in the iPhone 4S (and I guess we won't know absolutely for certain until it gets opened up), but it is almost without doubt MDM6600 just like the Verizon iPhone 4. The specs all line up, and while that part doesn't include 64QAM on the downlink, it does include a number of the other HSPA+ features I've mentioned, and is thus 3GPP Rel.7 and therefore 'HSPA+.'"



Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4943/t...spa-is-real-4g
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