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Steve Jobs originally envisioned Apple Stores as targeting creative professionals - Page 2

post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

i guess this will again end up in discussions on how Steve was stealing ideas. In a large company, ideas come from everywhere, and after the debate has transformed/refined the original idea, it is often difficult to credit the originator. But one thing is for sure : the boss has to make the final decision, especially when it implies to "start all over again ...". This decision making responsibility is the key one.

To me, this is the point that differentiates Apple from other companies : the Boss accepts full responsibility (does not delegate) and even presents the product himself on stage.

In such a situation, it is clear he is personnally involved in all key decisions, and furthermore, anybody working on the product know they will hear from the Boss if something goes wrong. This makes, a big, very big difference, as opposed to companies where the Boss delegates everything, wants to be credited for success, but blame others in case of failure ...

You can delegate authority, but you cannot delegate responsibility -- you can only accept it! I think that was proven in spades by that apothecary fellow at HP.
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post #42 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Maybe he's lamenting the loss of that Papermaster fellow.

LOL he lasted, what a year or two tops?
post #43 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguy209 View Post

Is no one going to comment on Johnson's new JC Penny campaign? Seriously, while the Apple Stores are genius, I don't see his new JC Penny campaign making any difference in that market. With Apple you have unique, amazing products. With JC Penny you have clothes you can get anywhere. I'm amazed he bailed out of Apple to go work for JC Penny.

AFAICT, he has reduced SKUs, cleaned up pricing (eliminated confusing and conflicting specials, promotions, coupons, flyers, etc) -- leaving "normal low prices" and month-long special pricing attuned to customer demands -- not jus pushing/dumping overstocked products.

He's laid himself and JCP out there -- telling everyone what they JCP is going to do.

That's pretty good for starters, IMO -- you don't turn a battleship on a dime!
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post #44 of 56
I like what Johnson is trying to do with jcp. Hopefully his vision will result in better product in the stores. Then I think it could work. But even with what they have now at least they're trying to display it in a better fashion. So instead of having racks and racks of discounted clothes smashed together it's neatly organized. I wonder how this will impact Kohls. Their model seems to be constant sales/discounts. I don't know if I've ever seen anything at that store NOT on sale.
post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Its called money, plus the challenge. Apple is doing extremely well and is a large ship on course and moving right along, JCPenny is a ship that needs to be righted, but here's the rub did Apple do well because of him or would've it done just as well without him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm guessing it is mostly the challenge...and that he's a retail guy.

It sounds like it's what he likes to do. Apple is only partly a retail company, whereas that's all of what JCP does.

And...he's young. I suspect he felt he reached the peak of what he could do at Apple. Probably didn't envision himself sitting around Apple for 20 more years.

Finally...his success at Apple undoubtedly gave him great leverage in getting whatever retail job he wanted next. Strike while the iron is hot!

Challenge... yeah, inner challenge!

Think of it -- if Ron can turn around Zhay-Cee-Pennay (sounds better in broken French), he will make his mark on the world of business (not just retail). Think Lee Iacocca -- Ron will be able to get whatever job he wants... or none!

Maybe this kind of endeavor would be of some use in national/state government.
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post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Not to rain on your parade, but this s**t is getting old.

Please allow me to apologize for what must be a difficult process to get through, but English has a significant learning curve for me. Should you see me attempt to make another deposit, please skip over it and avoid the discomfort altogether.

Wishing you the best,

MEH TOO
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh 2 View Post

Please allow me to apologize for what must be a difficult process to get through, but English has a significant learning curve for me. Should you see me attempt to make another deposit, please skip over it and avoid the discomfort altogether.

Your English is fine. The idea that Apple is doomed because Jobs is dead is getting old. You can't possibly know this, all signs point away from it, and the argument has been done to death.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Your English is fine. The idea that Apple is doomed because Jobs is dead is getting old. You can't possibly know this, all signs point away from it, and the argument has been done to death.

If Steve was as good as I believe he was, he has created an innovation and profit machine, Apple, that will truly change the world....

And, by Apple -- I mean the people and their focused creative passions!
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post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Your English is fine. The idea that Apple is doomed because Jobs is dead is getting old. You can't possibly know this, all signs point away from it, and the argument has been done to death.

Thank you for illuminating the prior post's point. That is actually the very frustrating thing about English in my experience - one takes care to make a conciliatory point between two polemic views (e.g., here, Apple should take care to always continue to refine their technological edge by catering part of their efforts to the vanguard creative professionals, while continuing to expand upon their new-found success as a major technology provider for the masses. Forgive me, but it flabbergasts me that two such reasonable people as yourself and the prior poster could extrapolate a prophesy of doom for Apple from my words. I certainly hope that is not Apple's outcome for personal reasons if none other.

At any rate, I am very sorry to have touched upon a topic that has been done to death; I was simply not aware of it, nor the nerve it has obviously touched. I really should do more reading on this site. It is not my intention to add my commentary frivolously to a line of reasoning already started. Considering your position as a moderator, I appreciate your input. Your efforts to evaluate my input and infer what I can or cannnot know are actually quite valuable to me, and are are truly appreciated (in a way that a native English speaker may not understand). Again, I thank you for your time.

Here's wishing you the best. Have a great day!
post #50 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguy209 View Post

Is no one going to comment on Johnson's new JC Penny campaign? Seriously, while the Apple Stores are genius, I don't see his new JC Penny campaign making any difference in that market. With Apple you have unique, amazing products. With JC Penny you have clothes you can get anywhere. I'm amazed he bailed out of Apple to go work for JC Penny.

As has been mentioned, Apple got Johnson from Target, where he oversaw their extremely successful transformation from dowdy downscale big box Walmart manqué to strongly branded "everything under one roof" destination for people willing to pay a few cents more to avoid the Walmart "now I need to kill myself" effect.

That's a pretty formidable track record-- the hugely successful transformation of Target and the ridiculously successful Apple Stores, so I wouldn't dismiss his chances out of hand.

Personally, I would have preferred that Johnson had taken on Sears, because I think Sears has the greater wasted potential. I could imagine them becoming a 21st century general store, with their broad product portfolio focused, quality improved, store layouts energized, and branding updated. Maybe a slightly retro vibe, with some of the same emphasis on simple virtues (which would work well with Sears' history) that is being used for JCP. There's a huge amount of work that could be done in the tools area, which is still a real strength for Sears. Create a proper store within the store that feels like a real old fashioned hardware store, with a big selection of quality tools. Do the same with housewares, recreation/patio stuff, etc. Hell, maybe I should submit my application.

But I'll be curious to see what he ends up doing with Penny's nonetheless. If he bring even half the flair that he brought to Target is should prove interesting. One thing he mentions is the willingness to see the job through, and i don't think the importance of that can be underestimated. So often you hear about retail "makeovers" that feature a bit of shuffling stuff around, but the company is unwilling to commit to genuinely broad, longterm change. It appears that Johnson certainly will, and that alone improves the odds of success.
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post #51 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Maybe this kind of endeavor would be of some use in national/state government.

Bleh. Business is a higher calling than government. If he provides great products to the world, that's enough.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

As has been mentioned, Apple got Johnson from Target, where he oversaw their extremely successful transformation from dowdy downscale big box Walmart manqué to strongly branded "everything under one roof" destination for people willing to pay a few cents more to avoid the Walmart "now I need to kill myself" effect.

That's a pretty formidable track record-- the hugely successful transformation of Target and the ridiculously successful Apple Stores, so I wouldn't dismiss his chances out of hand.

Personally, I would have preferred that Johnson had taken on Sears, because I think Sears has the greater wasted potential. I could imagine them becoming a 21st century general store, with their broad product portfolio focused, quality improved, store layouts energized, and branding updated. Maybe a slightly retro vibe, with some of the same emphasis on simple virtues (which would work well with Sears' history) that is being used for JCP. There's a huge amount of work that could be done in the tools area, which is still a real strength for Sears. Create a proper store within the store that feels like a real old fashioned hardware store, with a big selection of quality tools. Do the same with housewares, recreation/patio stuff, etc. Hell, maybe I should submit my application.

But I'll be curious to see what he ends up doing with Penny's nonetheless. If he bring even half the flair that he brought to Target is should prove interesting. One thing he mentions is the willingness to see the job through, and i don't think the importance of that can be underestimated. So often you hear about retail "makeovers" that feature a bit of shuffling stuff around, but the company is unwilling to commit to genuinely broad, longterm change. It appears that Johnson certainly will, and that alone improves the odds of success.

Odd you should mention that...

Sears/KMart and JCP have the following market caps -- within $50 Million of each other:

$ 8,297,094,400 SHLD

$ 8,247,262,380 JCP

$24,103,067,970 ACE

Interesting...


I like your ideas -- grew up with the sears catalog, and remember when Sears hired Vincent Price to re-image their stores with fine art, up-scale goods.

I used to insist on only Craftsman tools -- once was in the Golf-Mill store (ChicagoLand) and a guy brought in a broken ratchet wrench that he had purchased 7 years earlier -- they replaced it on the spot.

In my mind there is no substitute for the old-timey hardware store -- the tactile reward when you stick your hands into a bin of nuts and bolts -- fair individual prices -- instead of Home Depot packages where you get 3 bubble-wrapped screws for $1...

Then they just seemed to lose their way...

There might just be an opportunity there...

Maybe, Apple should set up a management/marketing/distribution/retailing consultancy arm...
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- Michael Lille -
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post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

It's truly unfortunate Apple now hates creative professionals these days, the people that stayed with the company when it was on the brink. The people that repeatedly showcase Apple products in movies and television, the people that show off their products on stage...

Now Apple turns it's back.

Creative professionals need an upgraded workstation, the processors are now available! We need matte screens! We need an OS that retains compatibility with our software!!!!

Amen. In some ways, Windows 7 is now the better platform for professional creative workstations. Apple has become a consumer electronics company and has turned its back on us.
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

Honestly Apple products are getting better for the time. Professionals don't have to buy very high end Macs to do their job except those in video production and even the much condemned FCPX is now better han ever and with third party support it can only get better.

Look at the latest iPhoto, I have seen the death of Adobe and look at the latest app by Autodesk and I believe others will run ring around Illustrator. And all this can be done on the iPad and not a Mac.

I disagree. Amateurs can do lots of interesting things on the iPad and the value proposition of the incredibly inexpensive applications for the iPad is unbelievably high. But for serious work, IMO, you still need a powerful computer with a full and tactile keyboard and a mouse or other pointing device aside from the touch pad. The iPad is certainly fun, but I can't do serious work on it. Typing on it hurts my hands. For an exec who just wants to check email, post a few things on Linked-In, surf the web and listen to music, it's a great machine. But for someone who needs to do serious work in Photoshop or write complex documents in Word or use other complex pro apps, a laptop or desktop is still the better tool.

I'm a semi-pro photographer and iPhoto just doesn't cut it. I consider Aperture to be a pro app, but the reality is that I've hardly used it. It's always been Photoshop for me. But I can see someone coming up with a replacement for Illustrator - I've never found it the slightest bit intuitive to use.

If the rumors are accurate, we're going to see the MacBookPro line disappear into the Mac Book Air line. So now we don't have optical drives (which I still use), we'll have limited storage space because to replicate the amount of hard disk I have in a solid state drive will cost 3x the price and we'll presumably have smaller screens. I have no interest in storing the work I get paid for in the Cloud and most of my clients would forbid it by contract anyway.

Apple seems to be taking the line that they're going to concentrate where they can sell the most units and make the most money. I understand that, but what they seem to be forgetting is that high-end companies keep their reputations by what they develop at the top of the line. That's true for cars, fashion, electronics and cameras. If you look at companies like Nikon and Canon, most of the profits actually come from the middle of the line, not their top of the line $8000 bodies. But the quality at the top of the line and its use by professionals drives the reputation of the rest of the line.

So IMO, Apple should be producing a bleeding-edge state of the art Mac Pro even if it's never going to sell that many units. And they should still produce Mac Book Pros for high-end users. And when they produce supposed pro apps, like FCPX, they need to be less arrogant and listen to people in the industry, especially when it comes to workflow issues. There has been a long-standing problem at Apple with pro users because Apple really can't be trusted - you never know when they're going to abandon support or radically change a product that negatively impacts the way that you work. I think this next year is going to determine whether Apple is going to continue in the computer business or whether they're only going to be a consumer electronics company.
post #55 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I disagree. Amateurs can do lots of interesting things on the iPad and the value proposition of the incredibly inexpensive applications for the iPad is unbelievably high. But for serious work, IMO, you still need a powerful computer with a full and tactile keyboard and a mouse or other pointing device aside from the touch pad. The iPad is certainly fun, but I can't do serious work on it. Typing on it hurts my hands. For an exec who just wants to check email, post a few things on Linked-In, surf the web and listen to music, it's a great machine. But for someone who needs to do serious work in Photoshop or write complex documents in Word or use other complex pro apps, a laptop or desktop is still the better tool.

I'm a semi-pro photographer and iPhoto just doesn't cut it. I consider Aperture to be a pro app, but the reality is that I've hardly used it. It's always been Photoshop for me. But I can see someone coming up with a replacement for Illustrator - I've never found it the slightest bit intuitive to use.

If the rumors are accurate, we're going to see the MacBookPro line disappear into the Mac Book Air line. So now we don't have optical drives (which I still use), we'll have limited storage space because to replicate the amount of hard disk I have in a solid state drive will cost 3x the price and we'll presumably have smaller screens. I have no interest in storing the work I get paid for in the Cloud and most of my clients would forbid it by contract anyway.

Apple seems to be taking the line that they're going to concentrate where they can sell the most units and make the most money. I understand that, but what they seem to be forgetting is that high-end companies keep their reputations by what they develop at the top of the line. That's true for cars, fashion, electronics and cameras. If you look at companies like Nikon and Canon, most of the profits actually come from the middle of the line, not their top of the line $8000 bodies. But the quality at the top of the line and its use by professionals drives the reputation of the rest of the line.

So IMO, Apple should be producing a bleeding-edge state of the art Mac Pro even if it's never going to sell that many units. And they should still produce Mac Book Pros for high-end users. And when they produce supposed pro apps, like FCPX, they need to be less arrogant and listen to people in the industry, especially when it comes to workflow issues. There has been a long-standing problem at Apple with pro users because Apple really can't be trusted - you never know when they're going to abandon support or radically change a product that negatively impacts the way that you work. I think this next year is going to determine whether Apple is going to continue in the computer business or whether they're only going to be a consumer electronics company.


What the hell are you bitching about... You can buy a Loaded 27" iMac that is faster than your MacPro and a 12 TB Thunderbolt Promise RAID for less than you spent 4 years ago... Better, faster, quieter, more reliable... Doesn't act like a space heater for your feet though...

It's called natural selection... Adapt or die!
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
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- Michael Lille -
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post #56 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Apple seems to be taking the line that they're going to concentrate where they can sell the most units and make the most money. I understand that, but what they seem to be forgetting is that high-end companies keep their reputations by what they develop at the top of the line. That's true for cars, fashion, electronics and cameras. If you look at companies like Nikon and Canon, most of the profits actually come from the middle of the line, not their top of the line $8000 bodies. But the quality at the top of the line and its use by professionals drives the reputation of the rest of the line.

What you say may be true, but also may not apply in Apple's case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

So IMO, Apple should be producing a bleeding-edge state of the art Mac Pro even if it's never going to sell that many units.

And this is one reason you're not running Apple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

There has been a long-standing problem at Apple with pro users because Apple really can't be trusted - you never know when they're going to abandon support or radically change a product that negatively impacts the way that you work.

If customers cannot trust Apple (or any other vendor) as you claim, but need to for their critical work, maybe they need to find another vendor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I think this next year is going to determine whether Apple is going to continue in the computer business or whether they're only going to be a consumer electronics company.

I think it's clear that decision has already been made.

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