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Google threatening Android app makers who use alternative payment services

post #1 of 47
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A new report claims Google has been threatening developers that it will remove from its Google Play app market Android apps that eschew its Google Wallet payment service in favor of third-party options.

Developers, executives and investors in the mobile gaming and payment sectors have indicated to Reuters that Google has warned that accepting in-app payments from services like PayPal, Zong and Boku violates its terms of use.

"[Google] told people that if they used other payment services they would be breaking the terms of use," Si Shen, founder and chief executive of Android social gaming network Papaya, told the publication. "Whether it's right or wrong, we have to follow the rules."

The Android Market Developer Distribution Agreement states: "All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the Market must be processed by the Market's Payment Processor." A payment processor is defined as "any party authorized by Google to provide payment processing services that enable Developers with optional Payment Accounts to charge Device users for Products distributed via the Market."

Though the policy has been described by some as an effort to simplify the consumer payment experience, others view it as an unfair advantage for Google's in-house service, especially since Google Wallet takes a higher cut than some of its competitors. Google's share usually amounts to 30 percent, the same as Apple's take for the App Store.

The enforcement of Google Wallet as the exclusive Android payment solution is the latest in a series of decisions that have tightened restrictions for the mobile operating system, a marked difference from the platform's early days when it was less regulated. Some have taken the new strictures to be a concession by Google that Apple's more closed ecosystem is the better alternative. The Mountain View, Calif., company's recent efforts to rebrand its Android Market under an umbrella Google Play storefront that includes its digital music and book stores has drawn comparisons to Apple's iTunes branding.




Apple itself faced criticism last year for a policy banning links to out-of-app purchases. The company insisted that it was only fair that it earn its 30 percent share if it brought new subscribers to an app.

"On Android it used to be laissez faire - you could use any payment provider you liked," said Todd Hooper, chief executive of Zipline Games. "It's probably naive of developers to think they could keep choosing different payment providers."

Developer Bionic Panda Games' Charles Hudson said Apple's App Store has seen higher conversion rates because the company locked app makers into its own payment system from the start. "Every single developer is using the Apple payment system," he said. "Google sees the benefits that provides for the Apple platform and wants to create a similar system."

The Google Wallet service was not available when Bionic Panda began selling on the Android Market a year ago, but the company did switch to it last spring.

Google has struggled in creating as profitable an app ecosystem as Apple's App Store. Android platform manager Eric Chu said early last year that Google was "not happy" with the number of paid apps being download on its platform. According to one analysis late last year, the Android Market had brought in just 7 percent of the gross revenue of the App Store. A separate study found that iOS apps make 300 percent more revenue than their Android counterparts.

The search giant announced late last month that its app market had reached 450,000 apps, even as daily Android device activations have reached 850,000 handsets a day.

Apple announced in January that it had paid $4 billion to App Store developers since the digital storefront opened. The company recently touted the creation of 210,000 "iOS app economy jobs" as a result of the App Store. Apple also celebrated its 25 billionth application download on the App Store earlier this month, awarding a $10,000 iTunes gift card to a customer in Qingdao, China whose "Where's My Water?" download marked the milestone.




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post #2 of 47
I'm all for this. Their store, their rules.

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post #3 of 47
Quote:
A new report claims Google has been threatening developers that it will remove from its Google Play app market Android apps that eschew its Google Wallet payment service in favor of third-party options.

Apple is stifling developers! How dare Apple demand people not put links to outside stores or non-Apple payment services in their apps! Who do they think they are?!
post #4 of 47
HAHAHA

Open market

HAHAHA

Open OS

HAHAHA

Open Business model...

HAHAHA

Open BS...

Every step they make looks towards the Apple model...
post #5 of 47
I wouldn't characterize this as "Google threatening", but more accurately as "Google enforcing rules" in their Android store. But what's really interesting is that they aren't enforcing rules to protect users from bad experiences (say, viruses and malware), but simply making sure that payments go through their system. I don't know what to make of that other than concluding that Google really wants to collect all kinds of data from users and to find new ways to make money off that data.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #6 of 47
A new report CLAIMS. Let's not try and pawn this off as the truth AI, like you usually do, pushing your anti-Google propaganda.
post #7 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorleandro View Post

HAHAHA

Open market

HAHAHA

Open OS

HAHAHA

Open Business model...

HAHAHA

Open BS...

Every step they make looks towards the Apple model...

Yes, A.I. obviously misconstrued this. Android is all lovey, dovey open and all. \

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I wouldn't characterize this as "Google threatening", but more accurately as "Google enforcing rules" in their Android store. But what's really interesting is that they aren't enforcing rules to protect users from bad experiences (say, viruses and malware), but simply making sure that payments go through their system. I don't know what to make of that other than concluding that Google really wants to collect all kinds of data from users and to find new ways to make money off that data.

Oh, okay, now I understand, Android is still open and all. Thanks for the clarification. (Why should anyone stop me catching a virus that I am determined to catch!)
Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm all for this. There store, there rules.

How long do you think before they declare our OS and our hardware?
post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm all for this. There store, there rules.

Their, their.
post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkroeger View Post

Their, their.

Nice of you to comfort him.
post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new report claims Google has been threatening developers that it will remove from its Google Play app market Android apps that eschew its Google Wallet payment service in favor of third-party option.

Only an evil company would pull an app due to the developer wanting to get all the revenue from in-app purchases.
post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkroeger View Post

Their, their.

Would you believe I was pointing at their store and rules when I wrote that?

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post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by openminded View Post

A new report CLAIMS. Let's not try and pawn this off as the truth AI, like you usually do, pushing your anti-Google propaganda.

In other words, you're saying that Google isn't doing this? Because otherwise, your criticism is simply that you don't like the choice of words.
post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm all for this. There store, there rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkroeger View Post

Their, their.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Would you believe I was pointing at their store and rules when I wrote that?

That's certainly how *I* read it.
post #15 of 47
Yes, the famous open Google model at it's best; nothing they do is wrong and where anything goes, including your privacy and data to the advertisers......
post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by openminded View Post

A new report CLAIMS. Let's not try and pawn this off as the truth AI, like you usually do, pushing your anti-Google propaganda.

You do realize that this story is from Reuters, who interviewed several (unnamed) developers, don't you? I guess you don't care to research anything, you just bash away.
post #17 of 47
Google strategy = fly by seat of pants

So far only a couple asleep in the cockpit incidents, a few near miss mid air events, a number of landing gear failures, and a dreadful on time record. Other than that everything is going precisely according to plan.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #18 of 47
Perhaps Google should rename it "Google Business." They're not playing around, after all!
post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

In other words, you're saying that Google isn't doing this? Because otherwise, your criticism is simply that you don't like the choice of words.

Just saying that until there is definitive proof that they are doing this and it's not just a random report claiming it to be the truth, only then should AI post this article. Otherwise it just comes off as anti-Google propaganda.
post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

You do realize that this story is from Reuters, who interviewed several (unnamed) developers, don't you? I guess you don't care to research anything, you just bash away.

You think it would be the first time a company has put out reports in favor of certain companies? Companies and the employees that work within them make millions off of scams like that. paying people off to spew bulls**t.
post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorleandro View Post

HAHAHA

Open market

Damn I can'tdownload Amazon App Store, the upcoming CM App store or any other app store now? Damn...oh wait, I can? oh...so you had no actual point

Quote:
HAHAHA

Open OS

Let's have a race....you download iOS source code and I'll download Android source code...ready?

The OS is still open. Think better.

Quote:
HAHAHA

Open Business model...

You're gonna need to elaborate here....

Quote:
HAHAHA

Open BS...

Every step they make looks towards the Apple model...

Didn't know I could sideload apps in stock iOS and install alternative stores...thanks for the input.

Also...what exactly is wrong with this anyways?
post #22 of 47
What's gonna happen when Motorola acquisition is completed? Will there be a Googorola App Store? Seems like Google is preparing their ecosystem to squash competitors... Android competitors.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm all for this. Their store, their rules.

Damn. You are always so sensible. So reasonable. Kind of in touch.

Do you belong on these kinds of forums?

And I agree with you on the matter at hand.
post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorleandro View Post

HAHAHA

Open market

HAHAHA

Open OS

HAHAHA

Open Business model...

HAHAHA

Open BS...

Every step they make looks towards the Apple model...


Difference is that there are many markets Android owners can but from. Some devices come preinstalled with links to non Google app stores.
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by openminded View Post

You think it would be the first time a company has put out reports in favor of certain companies? Companies and the employees that work within them make millions off of scams like that. paying people off to spew bulls**t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyGies View Post

A new report CLAIMS. Let's not try and pawn this off as the truth AI



It is the same everywhere I see and go. Very few news websites even newspapers nowadays still have their credibility intact. The function of sites like this is to push forward whatever there is out there so you could make your own further research regardless. It would be the same albeit in the other direction if you visit the opposing sites.
post #26 of 47
So then the average sales price per app = $0.2286
X 0.70 = $0.16 to developers X 25 B = $4 B.

This is over a huge number so we can use it a a good rule of thumb. Of course, when they say over $4 B, we do not know how much over so we could round to 0.23 or even 25ยข as average charge per app.
post #27 of 47
Funny thing is, Apple already does exactly this.

On Android there is ALWAYS the option to install apps from outside Google's Market - on standard, non-rooted devices. You can install Amazon Market if you want, or download a .apk directly from a website.

What some developers were doing was offering a 'free' app that had unlockable 'features' that you'd pay for through PayPal or something, so they wouldn't have to give Google their cut, even though it was advertised on Google's Market. Google is simply enforcing rules on their market. You can still download Android Apps from sources other than Google's Market.
post #28 of 47
Right now, all I can think of that is left of the Android 'free and open' model is that you can lobotimize your device by installing unverified APK's (like you can on an jailbroken iOS device), or flash a custom ROM (which you usually only do because the carrier screwed up the stock ROM with bloatware, crapware and adware).

For anything else, you'll have to use what Google wants you to use, otherwise your device can not actually be called 'Android', it will not have any of the Google Apps, no access to the Google market, and will not be supported by any of the services Google is rolling out like Google Music or Google Wallet. Effectively it is almost as closed as iOS or WP7, and the minor details that are left over (you can look at the sourcecode but not contribute to it, you can start your own Android market, and... yes what exactly?) are completely irrelevant to 99% of all end-users.
post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Right now, all I can think of that is left of the Android 'free and open' model is that you can lobotimize your device by installing unverified APK's (like you can on an jailbroken iOS device), or flash a custom ROM (which you usually only do because the carrier screwed up the stock ROM with bloatware, crapware and adware).

For anything else, you'll have to use what Google wants you to use, otherwise your device can not actually be called 'Android', it will not have any of the Google Apps, no access to the Google market, and will not be supported by any of the services Google is rolling out like Google Music or Google Wallet. Effectively it is almost as closed as iOS or WP7, and the minor details that are left over (you can look at the sourcecode but not contribute to it, you can start your own Android market, and... yes what exactly?) are completely irrelevant to 99% of all end-users.

Aren't many vendors and carriers locking down the ROM's, too? I'd say the only way Android OS is open is when it comes to what the vendors or carriers can do to the device before it gets in your hand... but if that's the definition of open then iOS is also open.

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post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairb View Post

Difference is that there are many markets Android owners can but from. Some devices come preinstalled with links to non Google app stores.

While this is true, I fail to see how this should be considered an end-user 'advantage' of the supposedly 'free and open' nature of Android.

To me, it seems a hell of a lot more user-friendly and convenient to have everything in one place, to have a single, safe payment system, to get all updates from the same place and not having to deal with untrusted APK's or application and app store incompatibilities.
post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Aren't many vendors and carriers locking down the ROM's, too? I'd say the only way Android OS is open is when it comes to what the vendors or carriers can do to the device before it gets in your hand... but if that's the definition of open then iOS is also open.

From what I can tell most OEMs provide easy tools for unlocking a bootloader and others.don't lock them due.to negative consumer feedback

Also considering Google just.rereleased chrome beta for android to be again compatible with custom roms I'd say that's a good sign they will continue to support developers. The constant contact between CM team devs and Android engineers is also a good sign.

And d-range... stop with the bs
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

While this is true, I fail to see how this should be considered an end-user 'advantage' of the supposedly 'free and open' nature of Android.

To me, it seems a hell of a lot more user-friendly and convenient to have everything in one place, to have a single, safe payment system, to get all updates from the same place and not having to deal with untrusted APK's or application and app store incompatibilities.

Which is why the stock android market (play store -_-) exists...if you optionally choose a third party store you abide by that stores rules.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm all for this. Their store, their rules.

I agree.

However, I wish people would stop falling for the "we're open and Apple isn't" BS. There really aren't all that many differences in the business model (which isn't surprising because Google uses Cupertino as its R&D department). The main differences are that the Google store is full of malware and that Google goes out of its way to sell your private information.
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I agree.

However, I wish people would stop falling for the "we're open and Apple isn't" BS. There really aren't all that many differences in the business model (which isn't surprising because Google uses Cupertino as its R&D department). The main differences are that the Google store is full of malware and that Google goes out of its way to sell your private information.

Question to the mods, if it can be proven that a member is a liar, and I call him a low down dirty liar because he constantly repeats his lies and is proven wrong time and time again yet keeps coming back with the same bullshit can I call him a low down dirty liar and not get a point?

I want to know before I call jragosta a low down dirty liar because I do not wish to be banned again.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post



It is the same everywhere I see and go. Very few news websites even newspapers nowadays still have their credibility intact. The function of sites like this is to push forward whatever there is out there so you could make your own further research regardless.

I personally think very few readers do much in the way of "further research". I've seen inaccurate or outright false claims repeated over and over as fact when the truth really is out there if they wanted to take the time to look for themselves. AI stories are no different, with some members/visitors misreading rumor as fact and repeating it elsewhere. Remember: News and rumors since 1997. You have take the responsibility of paying attention when reading to note which is which.
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post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Question to the mods, if it can be proven that a member is a liar, and I call him a low down dirty liar because he constantly repeats his lies and is proven wrong time and time again yet keeps coming back with the same bullshit can I call him a low down dirty liar and not get a point?

I want to know before I call jragosta a low down dirty liar because I do not wish to be banned again.

It seems to be OK if pointing out the lie is the truth, but you'll probably need to expose the lie for that to be effective. I think you'll have trouble with that in this case, since his comments seem to be pretty much spot on, so you'd probably deserve a point. On the other hand, no one will miss you if you're banned, again... so, laissez les bons temps rouler!
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Question to the mods, if it can be proven that a member is a liar, and I call him a low down dirty liar because he constantly repeats his lies and is proven wrong time and time again yet keeps coming back with the same bullshit can I call him a low down dirty liar and not get a point?

I want to know before I call jragosta a low down dirty liar because I do not wish to be banned again.

You take him too seriously. I'm fairly certain he already knows that Google doesn't sell any personal information, and quite the contrary their privacy policies prohibit it with an independent auditor verifying they do what they say they do. Nor does he really believe that Google Play/Android Market is full of malware anymore than the AppStore is full of dishonest developers harvesting personal information. It's more a bit of grandstanding and use of literary license. No biggie and certainly not worthy of a personal insult. I'd leave it alone.
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post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

From what I can tell most OEMs provide easy tools for unlocking a bootloader and others.don't lock them due.to negative consumer feedback

Also considering Google just.rereleased chrome beta for android to be again compatible with custom roms I'd say that's a good sign they will continue to support developers. The constant contact between CM team devs and Android engineers is also a good sign.

And d-range... stop with the bs

I would appreciate it if you address me in a reply to something I actually posted myself, instead sneaking it into a reply to something someone else posted. This comes off a little under-handed.

Apart from that, thanks for the insightful commentary. Do you have anything to add to that, something from which I can deduce which parts of what I wrote I should stop writing, or do you want to keep it at just 'stop with the bs'?
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You take him too seriously. I'm fairly certain he already knows that Google doesn't sell any personal information, and quite the contrary their privacy policies prohibit it with an independent auditor verifying they do what they say they do. Nor does he really believe that Google Play/Android Market is full of malware anymore than the AppStore is full of dishonest developers harvesting personal information. It's more a bit of grandstanding and use of literary license. No biggie and certainly not worthy of a personal insult. I'd leave it alone.

understood, I'll refrain from calling him a low-down dirty liar.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

I would appreciate it if you address me in a reply to something I actually posted myself, instead sneaking it into a reply to something someone else posted. This comes off a little under-handed.

Apart from that, thanks for the insightful commentary. Do you have anything to add to that, something from which I can deduce which parts of what I wrote I should stop writing, or do you want to keep it at just 'stop with the bs'?

eh, I guess it would've been fair for me to ask what you mean by "app store incompatibilities" before I assumed your comment to be bullshit...you get a lot of half-truths and lies in regards to Apple competition on this forum.


So with that said, what do you mean by "App store incompatibilities?"



And yea...installing an untrusted app is a risky move which is why no one recommends anyone go online and look for untrusted apks...
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