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Pat Robertson: Pot should be legal like alcohol - Page 2

post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Do you have some sort of evidence that indicates that consumption would go up if it was legal? That was not what happened when alcohol prohibition ended.

You want proof of pot being dangerous to your health go ask the doctors who are cardiac specialists and the neurosurgeons.My wife died from pot!.
post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Would you be OK with me going to my job after having two or three beers with dinner? (You and your loved ones would a handful of the 180 passengers in the back of my plane... and the controller is going to make a mistake ... it'll be up to me and my judgment/reaction time to figure that out and avoid major problems ... death and destruction type stuff... )

So... are you cool with me drinking before I go "drive" you from EWR to LAX? Honestly, 2 or 3 beers don't put me anywhere near unable to fly safely!... trust me!!

(It's a rhetorical question... I'll assume you would answer correctly and I'll state that I don't want to be on the highway next to you right after you've had a few either.)

You're comparing flying to driving? Come on.
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post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You want proof of pot being dangerous to your health go ask the doctors who are cardiac specialists and the neurosurgeons.My wife died from pot!.

Pot is not "dangerous to your health." It does not affect heart health, nor cause cancer. About the worst thing that happens is people become psychologically addicted.
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post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Pot is not "dangerous to your health." It does not affect heart health, nor cause cancer. About the worst thing that happens is people become psychologically addicted.

Of course pot is dangerous to your heath. Any smoke has carcinogens in it. Plus pot is additive. Which is not healthy.


The ape shit left thinks there are carcinogens hiding behind every corner ... just not in pot. It's fucking stupid.
post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You're comparing flying to driving? Come on.

What's the difference?
Operating potentIally deadly machinery, requires a certain amount of dexterity, alertness, and reaction time ... In reality, flying airplanes is much less demanding than driving cars.
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post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Of course pot is dangerous to your heath. Any smoke has carcinogens in it.

One would think so. But, according to research, the expected link between lung cancer and pot (when smoked) is dubious. Have a watch here as well... you may be surprised!

Perhaps your gripe is against how the drug is commonly ingested... in joints. Same with me... I don't like walking into a room and breathing in someone else's intoxicating exhalations. I wish people could use a less anti-social way of taking it!

Quote:
Plus pot is additive.

As SDW pointed out, it can be psychologically addictive. But as regards physical addiction and tolerance, pot causes little if any physical dependence. In fact many users have reported that in time, it takes less and less of the drug to get high.

Many things in common and legal use in western society are highly addictive... far more so that pot, ... and society isn't exactly too bothered. Tobacco products, alcohol, caffeine, a huge proportion of popular prescription drugs especially anti-depressants, painkillers, attention-deficit treatments... all powerful and addictive substances, far more addictive than pot, and in many cases, chemically far more toxic.

....then theres gambling, television, pornography, the internet, candy....

Quote:
Which is not healthy.

Do you indulge in any of the above?

Quote:
The ape shit left thinks there are carcinogens hiding behind every corner ... just not in pot. It's fucking stupid.

Where did you bring party politics into this? I gather you're a conservative.. and conservatism is (partly) about keeping the nanny government out of peoples' private affairs! Yes? No?

Relax, have a toke!
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post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Of course pot is dangerous to your heath. Any smoke has carcinogens in it. Plus pot is additive. Which is not healthy.

There is no evidence linking pot smoking to cancer, which of course stands in contrast to tobacco smoke.

http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/b...armentano.html

Secondly, there is little if any evidence proving pot is chemically addictive. In fact, even when psychological factors are introduced, dependency rates are far below nicotine and caffeine.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...uana-addictive

The ape shit left thinks there are carcinogens hiding behind every corner ... just not in pot. It's fucking stupid.[/QUOTE]

It's counter-intuitive, but not all smoke is equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

What's the difference?
Operating potentIally deadly machinery, requires a certain amount of dexterity, alertness, and reaction time ... In reality, flying airplanes is much less demanding than driving cars.

No. For one thing, you're thousands of feet in the air "driving" around a few hundred people who have paid to be there. It's clearly not the same as me having two beer with dinner driving 30 minutes home.
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post #48 of 67
I'd prefer not to be on the road with you after you have had two beers. You are putting other lives in danger with your delayed reaction times. Recently a woman in dark clothes stepped out to cross a dark street right in front of me--I don't think she was looking where she was going at all. I saw her, slammed on the brakes and swerved to avoid her. I came within probably 6 inches of hitting her. Had my reaction time been at all affected by booze, she could have been killed. Thankfully, if I'm driving, I don't drink at all--not even one or two beers. Don't fucking drink and drive.

 

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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'd prefer not to be on the road with you after you have had two beers. You are putting other lives in danger with your delayed reaction times. Recently a woman in dark clothes stepped out to cross a dark street right in front of me--I don't think she was looking where she was going at all. I saw her, slammed on the brakes and swerved to avoid her. I came within probably 6 inches of hitting her. Had my reaction time been at all affected by booze, she could have been killed. Thankfully, if I'm driving, I don't drink at all--not even one or two beers. Don't fucking drink and drive.

Agreed. It's about being sensible and civilized... if you drink and drive, you might just kill yourself, or worse - someone else. Its a shame that people are so goddamned ignorant and obstinate that we have to pass laws to try to dissuade the least aware amongst us from turning their vehicle into an out of control weapon.

If a surfeit of alcohol can transform the most brilliant amongst us into blathering morons - even when sitting quietly - then what's going to happen when we attempt a precision, multi-tasking operation like driving a car - at speed - amongst other cars moving at speed, or operating machinery etc. It doesn't take the proverbial rocket scientist....

US DoT article on pot and driving performance here:

extracted:

Quote:
The results of the studies corroborate those of previous driving simulator and closed-course tests by indicating that THC in inhaled doses up to 300 g/kg has significant, yet not dramatic, dose-related impairing effects on driving performance (cf. Smiley, 1986). Standard deviation of lateral position in the road-tracking test was the most sensitive measure for revealing THC's adverse effects. This is because road-tracking is primarily controlled by an automatic information processing system which operates outside of conscious control. The process is relatively impervious to environmental changes but highly vulnerable to internal factors that retard the flow of information through the system. THC and many other drugs are among these factors. When they interfere with the process that restricts road-tracking error, there is little the afflicted individual can do by way of compensation to restore the situation. Car-following and, to a greater extent, city driving performance depend more on controlled information processing and are therefore more accessible for compensatory mechanisms that reduce the decrements or abolish them entirely.

THC's effects on road-tracking after doses up to 300 g/kg never exceeded alcohol's at bacs of 0.08 g%; and, were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs' (Robbe, 1994; Robbe and O'Hanlon, 1995; O'Hanlon et al., 1995). Yet, THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence.

Inter-subject correlations between plasma concentrations of the drug and driving performance after every dose were essentially nil, partly due to the peculiar kinetics of THC. It enters the brain relatively rapidly, although with a perceptible delay relative to plasma concentrations. Once there, it remains even at a time when plasma concentrations approach or reach zero. As a result, performance may still be impaired at the time that plasma concentrations of the drug are near the detection limit. This is exactly what happened in the first driving study. Therefore an important practical implications of the study is that is not possible to conclude anything about a driver's impairment on the basis of his/her plasma concentrations of THC and THC-COOH determined in a single sample.

Although THC's adverse effects on driving performance appeared relatively small in the tests employed in this program, one can still easily imagine situations where the influence of marijuana smoking might have a dangerous effect; i.e., emergency situations which put high demands on the driver's information processing capacity, prolonged monotonous driving, and after THC has been taken with other drugs, especially alcohol. Because these possibilities are real, the results of the present studies should not be considered as the final word. They should, however, serve as the point of departure for subsequent studies that will ultimately complete the picture of THC's effects on driving performance.

I am not supporting "driving while stoned" (or anything that might impair ability behind the wheel), but just pointing out that it appears that pot seems to be the last thing to worry about as regards impaired driving performance from intoxicants. Hell... it's very dangerous (but legal) to drive while sleepy, and totally sober! (But even more so to drive while sleepy and intoxicated).
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post #50 of 67
There was no left and right in this thread, and some ultra partisan asshat has to bring it in. Seriously. There is not a single person on this board that is more polarized than that elitist dick. What the fuck?
post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

What's the difference?
Operating potentIally deadly machinery, requires a certain amount of dexterity, alertness, and reaction time ... In reality, flying airplanes is much less demanding than driving cars.

In level cruising at altitude, under normal conditions, for sure. But take off and landing is a totally different issue!
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post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Pot is not "dangerous to your health." It does not affect heart health, nor cause cancer. About the worst thing that happens is people become psychologically addicted.

You are an idiot by saying this! I guess you are a POTHEAD! Keep smoking and see what happens to your heart and brain eventually. There is such toxins in pot which is lethal .It has been proven over and over again.
post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are an idiot by saying this! I guess you are a POTHEAD! Keep smoking and see what happens to your heart and brain eventually. There is such toxins in pot which is lethal .It has been proven over and over again.

No, organic marajuana has nearly no toxins, probably on a level 1/100th as much as tobacco. The problem arises when the pot you buy is low quality and has been cut with something else, either to make it more addictive, or to trick the user into thinking it's better stuff. How can you know if it's impure when it's not regulated?
post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'd prefer not to be on the road with you after you have had two beers. You are putting other lives in danger with your delayed reaction times. Recently a woman in dark clothes stepped out to cross a dark street right in front of me--I don't think she was looking where she was going at all. I saw her, slammed on the brakes and swerved to avoid her. I came within probably 6 inches of hitting her. Had my reaction time been at all affected by booze, she could have been killed. Thankfully, if I'm driving, I don't drink at all--not even one or two beers. Don't fucking drink and drive.

Then the limit should be .00?
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post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are an idiot by saying this!

Which part?

Quote:
I guess you are a POTHEAD!

You make that judgement because I say 1) It's not addictive and 2) It's far less harmful than tobacco? I guess most scientists in the world are potheads, too. By the way, I've tried it a handful of times and don't really care for it.

Quote:
Keep smoking and see what happens to your heart and brain eventually.

There is no evidence that smoking causes problems with one's heart or brain chemistry.

Quote:
There is such toxins in pot which is lethal .It has been proven over and over again.

False. As tonton notes, there is nothing naturally in pot that is toxic (except perhaps in EXTREME doses). That's what's been proven. If you disagree, then provide evidence of your assertion.
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post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, organic marajuana has nearly no toxins, probably on a level 1/100th as much as tobacco. The problem arises when the pot you buy is low quality and has been cut with something else, either to make it more addictive, or to trick the user into thinking it's better stuff. How can you know if it's impure when it's not regulated?

This is poison for your body and mind and eventually it leads to harder drugs like crack and coke.I know from experience.
post #57 of 67
We're talking about marijuana, not alcohol and tobacco, Marv.
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

This is poison for your body and mind and eventually it leads to harder drugs like crack and coke.I know from experience.

It's not "poison" for your body. That is simply false. In fact, it's been shown to have several medicinal benefits, hence medical marijuana laws.

Secondly, yes..it can lead to harder drug use. That doesn't mean it does. I've tried it a handful of times and would never even consider taking a harder drug. From my personal experience, I've not encountered many people that actually go from marijuana to harder drugs.
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post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

This is poison for your body and mind and eventually it leads to harder drugs like crack and coke.I know from experience.

Oh no. Not the gateway theory again.

People use the black market to obtain pot. Interfacing with drug dealers - ie going outside of legal circles to obtain pot - will make the pot buyer far more likely to come into contact with people selling other illicit, and far more dangerous drugs.

If there is any truth in the "gateway theory", there's the most likely cause. It all makes for an easier opportunity for pot users (especially kids who are all for experimentation) to try other drugs which they would not otherwise have had access to... and some will end up addicted to something really nasty. The illegal, or criminal status of pot makes just it easier for kids to get hold of other stuff.

Does every social drinker who enjoys a glass or two of beer or wine automatically graduate to being a whisky lush?

It's got nothing to do with the properties of pot.
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post #60 of 67
Long story short, prohibition only causes more problems than it is trying to solve in the first place. End drug & prostitution prohibition, and you'll cut the legs out from under myriads of criminal enterprises.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #61 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Long story short, prohibition only causes more problems than it is trying to solve in the first place. End drug & prostitution prohibition, and you'll cut the legs out from under myriads of criminal enterprises.

And keep guns legal. Making guns illegal would have even more devastating results than the "War on Drugs" has had.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

And keep guns legal. Making guns illegal would have even more devastating results than the "War on Drugs" has had.

Yeah, just like the devastating results in Australia, the UK and Canada! That's the ticket!
post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

And keep guns legal. Making guns illegal would have even more devastating results than the "War on Drugs" has had.

Keeping guns legal would be a disaster and more crime would happen faster.Regulate the guns which is essential in today's sick society.
post #64 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Long story short, prohibition only causes more problems than it is trying to solve in the first place. End drug & prostitution prohibition, and you'll cut the legs out from under myriads of criminal enterprises.

We agree there, believe it or not.
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post #65 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Keeping guns legal would be a disaster and more crime would happen faster.Regulate the guns which is essential in today's sick society.

No one serious is proposing outlawing guns, as far as I know. And most people aren't arguing for a total lack of regulation.
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post #66 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Long story short, prohibition only causes more problems than it is trying to solve in the first place. End drug & prostitution prohibition, and you'll cut the legs out from under myriads of criminal enterprises.

We got a closed loop happening.

The laws against drugs enrich well-placed businesses. First there's the hundreds of $billions in annual turnover from illicit drug sales, and then the prison-security boondoggle from the incarceration of drug users. When there is so much at stake, and so much money involved, one can guarantee that these folks, which ever side of the law they are on, have access to lawmakers via lobbying groups... simply because they can afford it.

For these élites, buying access to the political process is as straightforward as paying for a parking ticket.
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post #67 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Long story short, prohibition only causes more problems than it is trying to solve in the first place.

Yes. Let's keep this in mind. This doesn't just apply to drugs an alcohol.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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