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Epic Games thinks Apple could take on game consoles with iPad, Apple TV & controller

post #1 of 52
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Epic Games, one of the top game developers for the iOS platform, believes that Apple could directly take on game consoles like Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PlayStation 3 if it were to develop a Bluetooth controller for the iPad.

With this Friday's launch of the new iPad, Mike Capps, president of Epic Games, has been touting the power of Apple's third-generation tablet. Capps was onstage at last week's iPad unveiling, where he showed off a new title, "Infinity Blade: Dungeons," which takes advantage of the graphics processing and Retina display of the new iPad.

Capps also took part in an interview with Reuters that was published on Monday, in which he spoke of the possibility of a Bluetooth controller being developed for the iPad. With a hypothetical controller combined with AirPlay and an Apple TV, he believes Apple could challenge Microsoft's Xbox and Sony's PlayStation platforms for the home console gaming market.

"It's quite easy to imagine a world where an iPad is more powerful than a home console, where it wirelessly talks to your TV and wirelessly talks to your controller and becomes your new console," Capps said.

His comments are particularly interesting as Capps, on behalf of Epic Games, has appeared onstage at all three of Apple's iPad media events. At last week's unveiling, Apple also featured Namco Bandai to show off the graphics processing capabilities of the new iPad and its A5X chip, which features a quad-core graphics processor.

Capps boasted at last week's event that the new iPad has a greater screen resolution than the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, thanks to Apple's new high-resolution Retina display. The new iPad also has more memory on its custom processor, which is believed to feature a gigabyte of RAM.

Capps said the unveiling of the new iPad last week shows that Apple cares about the game market that has flourished on iOS devices thanks to the App Store. He said Apple is interested in bringing "triple-A," high-quality games to its mobile devices.




Epic Games isn't alone in seeing Apple potentially entering the home console game market with the iPad and a Bluetooth controller accessory. Executives at Electronic Arts also told Reuters that they are closely watching Apple's moves.

"When the iPad gets to the processing power that's equal to an Xbox 360 and it connects to a television, that's no big deal to us — we'll put the game through the iPad and have it display through the television," said Frank Gibeau, president of Electronic Arts' Labels.

Another piece to Apple's potential entrance into the home console market could be the company's rumored television set. Numerous reports have indicated that Apple is working on a full-fledged television that could be unveiled as soon as later this year.

If Apple were to release a television set with an App Store like it offers for iOS devices and the Mac, or update its Apple TV set-top box with App Store access, some believe it could have an affect on sales of game consoles from companies like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft.

The prospect of console-style gaming from Apple first became a reality last year with the launch of the iPad 2. "Real Racing 2 HD" was one of the first titles that allowed users to output video from their iPad 2 to an HDTV to control the game, and AirPlay support was later added to make the feature wireless.

One survey of game developers conducted last year found most believe Apple and its late co-founder, Steve Jobs, have had the greatest impact on the gaming industry of late. A survey of 1,000 people at the London Games Conference found that 26 percent of respondents said Jobs was the most influential person in the industry, while 46 percent included Jobs in their top five.

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post #2 of 52
I think that the rumored 7.85 inch iOS device is a revanchist of he iPod touch. And this idea is one of the reasons

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post #3 of 52
Yes, this has been the logical evolution of AirPlay for a long while now. With the iPad 2 you started seeing some games play with the concept but it's not really until the new iPad that it has some real possibilities.

Lag is still something of an issue though.
post #4 of 52
I love to game so bring it, would love to see what they can do. Plus, the price is right on iOS devices regarding games.
post #5 of 52
Angry Birds is eminently playable on a Macbook Pro using the trackpad. Why not use the Magic Trackpad (although it'd need a gyroscope added to it for tilt detection and maybe be cheaper than $70) as a controller for the AppleTV? let the ATV download apps and you're all set. C'mon, Apple, make it so!
post #6 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

I think that the rumored 7.85 inch iOS device is a revanchist of he iPod touch. And this idea is one of the reasons

Interesting word...I can't recall every coming across is before. Thank you and I do agree that a lower end iPad could fit right in where the iPod Touch falls off a bit. A larger screen device that's better for games.
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post #7 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

I think that the rumored 7.85 inch iOS device is a revanchist of he iPod touch. And this idea is one of the reasons

What do you think the resolution will be?
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post #8 of 52
Quote:
Epic Games, one of the top game developers for the iOS platform, believes that Apple could directly take on game consoles like Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PlayStation 3 if it were to develop a Bluetooth controller for the iPad.

I've been saying this already for years. I'm sure many of you have too.
post #9 of 52
In one generation they have already scaled up the retina display from iPhone to iPad. I spy a trend. The Apple television is going to be an amazing game system among other things when it's ready.
post #10 of 52
A Bluetooth controller is a must. Those console people won't settle for less. Apple is still going to need some deeper games for those consumers used to consoles. I'm always hearing complaints about how iOS games are far too casual for the serious gamer. I think about ten exclusive console-type games could do the trick and the rest of those iOS games would be icing on the cake. Somehow, I always thought it would be the AppleTV that would evolve into a stand-alone gaming console using some advanced ARM processor, but I guess I was wrong.
post #11 of 52
Some guy at Slashgear went off on the notion that he could ever give up his Xbox 360 in favor of an iDevice. That no "serious" or "hardcore" gamer could either. I just think that this guy is stuck in his paradigm that he can't consider anything else. This is the kind of paradigm that Steve Jobs (RIP) loved to crush to open a new market and sell more gadgets and reap profit.

Truly a way to "Think Different".
post #12 of 52
People have been saying this for a long time now. Apple really needs to come out with their own controller.

Certain games are great with touch, but there are other types of games where a controller is the best choice.
post #13 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Some guy at Slashgear went off on the notion that he could ever give up his Xbox 360 in favor of an iDevice. That no "serious" or "hardcore" gamer could either. I just think that this guy is stuck in his paradigm that he can't consider anything else. This is the kind of paradigm that Steve Jobs (RIP) loved to crush to open a new market and sell more gadgets and reap profit.

Truly a way to "Think Different".

Some of the opinion pieces there are plain ignorant, and others are plain stupid. I read the one which you are talking about. Their readership is pretty low and there are hardly any comments on that site. I wonder why.
post #14 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

A Bluetooth controller is a must. Those console people won't settle for less. Apple is still going to need some deeper games for those consumers used to consoles. I'm always hearing complaints about how iOS games are far too casual for the serious gamer. I think about ten exclusive console-type games could do the trick and the rest of those iOS games would be icing on the cake. Somehow, I always thought it would be the AppleTV that would evolve into a stand-alone gaming console using some advanced ARM processor, but I guess I was wrong.

Make it happen Apple. Multi-Touch is great for some applications but transparent controller overlays are very frustrating.
post #15 of 52
You think???

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post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Some guy at Slashgear went off on the notion that he could ever give up his Xbox 360 in favor of an iDevice. That no "serious" or "hardcore" gamer could either. I just think that this guy is stuck in his paradigm that he can't consider anything else. This is the kind of paradigm that Steve Jobs (RIP) loved to crush to open a new market and sell more gadgets and reap profit.

Truly a way to "Think Different".

I suppose that , by the minute they would switch to iOS, they would no longer be "serious", uh ?

"serious gamer" is an oxymoron to me, but probably because I am not gamer myself ....
post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Some guy at Slashgear went off on the notion that he could ever give up his Xbox 360 in favor of an iDevice. That no "serious" or "hardcore" gamer could either. I just think that this guy is stuck in his paradigm that he can't consider anything else. This is the kind of paradigm that Steve Jobs (RIP) loved to crush to open a new market and sell more gadgets and reap profit.

Truly a way to "Think Different".

Absolutely! There's a whole untapped demographic in gaming with the highest income earners. The Boomers and their parents got their feet wet with the wii, but when the older generation becomes "hardcore gamers" relatively speaking, Apple will supply their gear.
post #18 of 52
This is a no-brainer. The lack of tangible controls means you can't look at the TV when playing a game, making Airplay useless for games unless you have an audience.
post #19 of 52
What ever happened to Onlive bringing their gaming system to iOS plus their own branded Bluetooth controller? That looked like the beginning of even more serious gaming on the iPad but now they aren't talking about it anymore. I hope it doesn't turn out to be vaporware.

http://blog.onlive.com/2011/12/07/on...era-in-gaming/
post #20 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Some guy at Slashgear went off on the notion that he could ever give up his Xbox 360 in favor of an iDevice. That no "serious" or "hardcore" gamer could either. I just think that this guy is stuck in his paradigm that he can't consider anything else. This is the kind of paradigm that Steve Jobs (RIP) loved to crush to open a new market and sell more gadgets and reap profit.

Truly a way to "Think Different".

I'm sure some serious gamers would never give up their gaming PC's for a console either.......

Apples entry into the games market is cunning, because so much of it happened under the radar - if you are a gamer, you have an iDevice as well as a console, and if you are a non-gamer, you have an iDevice because it does books, web etc. The fact that the upshot of that is a huge number of people with iDevices means that the served available market is so much larger for software companies writing games for iDevices.

While "serious" gamers will always want the highest resolution and frame rates the latest technology can give them, a much bigger market exists of people who just want to be entertained. I still think Sensible Soccer on the Amiga is the best football game ever created. The fact that the PS3 version of FIFA 2011 is in 3D and pushes God knows how many polygons hasn't made the game any more entertaining, it's just made it a more accurate simulation.
post #21 of 52
You cannot compete with consoles until you release a hard controller that works across the board. On screen controls, while intuitive in some games, cannot compete. There is a controller I saw recently, but it seems to only work with less than a handful of games until the developers create support for it. I can't play a game like Deus Ex on an iOS device, nor something like Crysis 2.

That and plus Apple hasn't figured out saved games and in app purchase storage. If I delete a game off my iOS device and put it back on at a later time, I want my progress saved as well as any in app purchases. As of right now, I'd have to start from scratch again. I don't know why they can't use iCloud to do this, unless there is a way and I am missing it.
post #22 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Capps boasted at last week's event that the new iPad has a greater screen resolution than the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, thanks to Apple's new high-resolution Retina display.

It's more of a limitation with the output options though than the console. An iPad will also output to a TV at 1080p maximum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Capps said the unveiling of the new iPad last week shows that Apple cares about the game market that has flourished on iOS devices thanks to the App Store. He said Apple is interested in bringing "triple-A," high-quality games to its mobile devices.

I think bringing triple-A titles over is the number 1 priority. The hardware isn't all that important as the Wii demonstrated and the iPad exceeds the Wii in performance. They need immersive and popular titles.

Full versions of Bioshock, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, Burnout, Half-Life, Portal, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Batman etc. No watering down, no censorship.
post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss View Post

Absolutely! There's a whole untapped demographic in gaming with the highest income earners. The Boomers and their parents got their feet wet with the wii, but when the older generation becomes "hardcore gamers" relatively speaking, Apple will supply their gear.

Its the other way around, "hardcore gamers" are becoming the older generation. I was playing Resident Evil on the PlayStation in my 20s, for any serious gaming a controller is a must.
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post #24 of 52
If you're waiting for the Apple TV or a new iPad to turn the gaming world on its head, don't hold your breath. It ain't going to happen, at least not that way. I agree that Apple is setting the stage to compete against gaming consoles like the xBox or PlayStation. But IMO they are planning to do that with an Apple HDTV set. The size and beauty of the screen will be compelling and it will be large enough for all these Apple technologies (hobbies betas etc) they have been toying with to converge and placed into the set without worrying about heat, batteries, or profit margins. It's like the movie "The Godfather" when Michael settles family business with all the competing families in one big bang! The markets will not know what hit them.
post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

I suppose that , by the minute they would switch to iOS, they would no longer be "serious", uh ?

"serious gamer" is an oxymoron to me, but probably because I am not gamer myself ....

Would you not consider a pro athlete serious? They play games for a living.

There are men with lives, wives, kids, homes, jobs, etc.... that are hardcore gamers.
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post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I think bringing triple-A titles over is the number 1 priority. The hardware isn't all that important as the Wii demonstrated and the iPad exceeds the Wii in performance. They need immersive and popular titles.

Full versions of Bioshock, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, Burnout, Half-Life, Portal, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Batman etc. No watering down, no censorship.

Price is going to be the biggest concern, Apple simply cant compete against a standard gaming console as it stands right now even if they added a hardware controller. The price is more than just the hardware itself (600+ minimum since iPad/Apple TV are 100% mandatory, then tack on a hardware controller).

Compatibility would be the next hurdle, since launch 05-06 360/Wii/PS3 all can still play any game released today, the same cannot be said of launch or 2nd gen iOS devices. While that might not seem a problem to us, for a developer to create a top tier console game like those you listed above its going to take considerable time. Many of those games you listed took 2+ years in development time before they even hit consumer hands, well beyond the shelf life of every iOS device sans the 3GS.

The third massive blow is the size of those games. Console quality games eat well into a Blu-Ray or Dual Layer DVD, with games like Mass Effect/Battlefield 3 (and numerous others) eating 2 full DL DVDs or an entire Blu-Ray. iOS apps iirc are limited to a max of 2 GB, so i'm sure you can see the problem there. Its why even to this day, games look really good on iOS but lack any sort of substance *cough* Infinity Blade & Real Racing *cough*. The space isnt there like there is for gaming consoles.

While the new iPad is certainly capable of console level graphics from 2006 device, there are too many severely crippling factors for Apple to simply jump into console gaming, otherwise they'd already be in it.
post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

People have been saying this for a long time now. Apple really needs to come out with their own controller.

Certain games are great with touch, but there are other types of games where a controller is the best choice.

I disagree with Apple building a controller. I think Apple should include gaming APIs that will allow for simple lines of code to switch between a touch-based controller to any number of 3rd-party wireless and attached controllers simply be connecting it to the Bluetooth or 30-pin connector port.

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post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

People have been saying this for a long time now. Apple really needs to come out with their own controller.

Certain games are great with touch, but there are other types of games where a controller is the best choice.

Yep a controller but why not native games made for the Apple TV so you don't need to use an iPad and airplay. the controller could be an Apple TV accessory.
post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Yep a controller but why not native games made for the Apple TV so you don't need to use an iPad and airplay. the controller could be an Apple TV accessory.

Before the Airplay for iOS 5 was introduced I thought an AppleTV SDK and App Store would be great.. but you still have the problem of the chunky and slow TV interface, and the cheap IR remote control, app-based remote control in an iDevice, or an expensive remote control to navigate. Now I think that using AirPlay to mirror or stream content to the AppleTV is the best solution in versatility and speed.

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post #30 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Price is going to be the biggest concern, Apple simply cant compete against a standard gaming console as it stands right now even if they added a hardware controller. The price is more than just the hardware itself (600+ minimum since iPad/Apple TV are 100% mandatory, then tack on a hardware controller).

Price isn't much of an issue.

First, many PC gamers spend thousands on their systems. Second, there are already millions if iPads in circulation. And if a person is considering an iPad, anyway, then using it as a gaming device is free and saves them spending several hundred dollars on a console. So, under some scenarios, it's the cheapest way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Compatibility would be the next hurdle, since launch 05-06 360/Wii/PS3 all can still play any game released today, the same cannot be said of launch or 2nd gen iOS devices. While that might not seem a problem to us, for a developer to create a top tier console game like those you listed above its going to take considerable time. Many of those games you listed took 2+ years in development time before they even hit consumer hands, well beyond the shelf life of every iOS device sans the 3GS.

There are already tens of thousands of games for the iPad and many good ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

The third massive blow is the size of those games. Console quality games eat well into a Blu-Ray or Dual Layer DVD, with games like Mass Effect/Battlefield 3 (and numerous others) eating 2 full DL DVDs or an entire Blu-Ray. iOS apps iirc are limited to a max of 2 GB, so i'm sure you can see the problem there. Its why even to this day, games look really good on iOS but lack any sort of substance *cough* Infinity Blade & Real Racing *cough*. The space isnt there like there is for gaming consoles.

While the new iPad is certainly capable of console level graphics from 2006 device, there are too many severely crippling factors for Apple to simply jump into console gaming, otherwise they'd already be in it.

You're stuck in one viewpoint. By your standards, Nintendo shouldn't have sold any Wii devices since the graphics are below the competition.

Be careful not to restrict the world you your own narrow perspective. There's no rule that says a game must have a few billion pixels to be fun.
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post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I disagree with Apple building a controller. I think Apple should include gaming APIs that will allow for simple lines of code to switch between a touch-based controller to any number of 3rd-party wireless and attached controllers simply be connecting it to the Bluetooth or 30-pin connector port.

You'll be leaving that aspect of user experience to another company. MS went through many designs before they chose a design. A lousy controller will render a great game unplayable.
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post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

You'll be leaving that aspect of user experience to another company. MS went through many designs before they chose a design. A lousy controller will render a great game unplayable.

Apple licenses their iPod Dock Connector to other companies. A lot of the accessories re crap but a lot of them are good, too.

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post #33 of 52
I've said countless times that a 7" iPod/iPad would be a natural portable gaming device and would almost certainly hit Sony and Nintendo hard. It would also serve as the perfect size for an Apple TV controller. Play a game alone on your 7" device - when your friends come round simply air play it onto your Apple TV to play it multi-player on the big screen. Your friends could join in via their iPod or iPhone.

The gaming market is massive now and it would mean mega hardware sales for Apple. I think a 7" gaming (and eBook) device would outsell the iPad within a year.

Why would this make sense? Apple has hit a brick wall with the Film/TV companies over content, but the gaming companies are more forward thinking and much more willing to play ball. The more "eyeballs" they start losing, the more their ad revenues go down and the more desperate the Film/TV companies will be to come on board.
post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple licenses their iPod Dock Connector to other companies. A lot of the accessories re crap but a lot of them are good, too.

Question is can the dock connector support up to four controllers? Many serious gamers prefer being hardwired into the console/PC. They actually believe the minuscule amount of lag of a wireless controller vs a hardwired one makes a difference in their game play.
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post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

I think that the rumored 7.85 inch iOS device is a revanchist of he iPod touch. And this idea is one of the reasons

Yup!

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post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Question is can the dock connector support up to four controllers? Many serious gamers prefer being hardwired into the console/PC. They actually believe the minuscule amount of lag of a wireless controller vs a hardwired one makes a difference in their game play.

There is the FW wires not being utilized but I think that the USB supplies more supply than enough data for the inputs of four controllers. To be honest, I wasn't thinking about this type of usage, I was thinking more along the lines of an iPod Touch that could have a D-pad+ruble pack+ battery extender that encases it and then could be removed so you could still play the same game using on-screen controls.

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post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There is the FW wires not being utilized but I think that the USB supplies more supply than enough data for the inputs of four controllers. To be honest, I wasn't thinking about this type of usage, I was thinking more along the lines of an iPod Touch that could have a D-pad+ruble pack+ battery extender that encases it and then could be removed so you could still play the same game using on-screen controls.

That would make sense but the cost of iPods will be a impedance.
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post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Question is can the dock connector support up to four controllers? Many serious gamers prefer being hardwired into the console/PC. They actually believe the minuscule amount of lag of a wireless controller vs a hardwired one makes a difference in their game play.

Controller input is trivial compared to what the 30 pin connector can handle. Heck, that connector can easily handle HDMI, so a few controllers wouldn't be a problem.
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post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That would make sense but the cost of iPods will be a impedance.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. If you think I am referring to getting some accessory that would then require up to 4 iPod Touches added to them just to be plugged into an iPad... that is not what I was stating. I was looking at the need for a D-pad controller for an individual for play on their own Touch or iPhone. A handheld gaming device that can used with or without any number of 3rd-party controllers with any game because the iOS Gaming APIs allow for a universal and seamless switch between physical and virtual buttons.

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post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Price is going to be the biggest concern, Apple simply cant compete against a standard gaming console as it stands right now even if they added a hardware controller. The price is more than just the hardware itself (600+ minimum since iPad/Apple TV are 100% mandatory, then tack on a hardware controller).

Your going to seriously argue about value? Consoles tied to a TV vs an iPad that can not only take the place of the console - but also do a whole lot more WHILE NOT HAVING TO BE TETHERED TO A TV?!?

Comfy in your box?

Quote:
Compatibility would be the next hurdle, since launch 05-06 360/Wii/PS3 all can still play any game released today, the same cannot be said of launch or 2nd gen iOS devices.

At $20 instead of sixty, not having to be tied to a DVD (or TV) is worth it. Speaking of, doesn't Sony and Nintendo charge you separately for mobile and console versions? Still sure you want to go down the value path?

Then again at least Sony and Nintendo have mobile gaming strategies...

Yup, the console gaming market is perfect! There's obviously no value Apple can bring here

Quote:
Many of those games you listed took 2+ years in development time before they even hit consumer hands, well beyond the shelf life of every iOS device sans the 3GS.

If that timeline is for content, not sure how that's a negative since its going to be constant for any platform. If your citing it as development time, like for the game engine, perhaps you missed the past three years of experience companies like EA have been and still are racking up combined with the dramatically better hardware.

I don't think the guy actually making money is as concerned as you are \

Quote:
The third massive blow is the size of those games.

Your first half way legitimate concern. Except MS is rumored to be planning a disk-less successor to the 360.

And there's no way Apple or developers could use something like streaming to spread out downloads over time, or use some other strategy.

Quote:
iOS apps iirc are limited to a max of 2 GB, so i'm sure you can see the problem there.

Yup, because Apple is known for releasing products and NEVER updating the way they work. Cast in stone they are.

Quote:
While the new iPad is certainly capable of console level graphics from 2006 device, there are too many severely crippling factors for Apple to simply jump into console gaming, otherwise they'd already be in it.

Yup - its a lost cause. There is nothing Apple can do to overcome these issues! Whew! Sony, MS and Nintendo must be breathing easier now! Congratulations! There not doing it now, therefore they will never persue it!

Brilliant - absolutely brilliant....
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