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Rumor: Apple to launch 15-inch MacBook Air in April, 'effectively killing the Pro' - Page 2

post #41 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

We've had the 13" MB, MBA. and MBP all at the same time but we're suppose to believe that by introducing a 15" MBA that the 15" MBP would be killed off? That's an excessive leap.


PS: I can't believing I'm seeing posters say a Pro needs an ODD. Really?! It's 2012.

Yes, many people still use optical media for vast amounts of things. The fact that Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden, Sony, Ritek, etc. are still pumping out 100s of millions of optical discs every year is a sure sign of this.
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post #42 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

Because of their push for Thunderbolt so heavily. Including USB 3.0 at the same time would do nothing but diminish any reason to go to Thunderbolt. At least in the case of having USB 2.0 and Thunderbolt you have enough differentiation. USB 3 and Thunderbolt, not as much. Sure, theoretical peak is only half of thunderbolt, but that's substantially less difference than than the 20 times slower USB 2.0. And honestly you are probably not going to ever saturate USB 3.0 completely very often anyway.

They had something new so they marketed it to encourage people to buy a new machine. It's pretty typical. I still find it irritating how it uses the same port as an external display.
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post #43 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:25am
Actually just from DVDs alone that would be billions of discs.
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post #44 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:27am
I have a 15" MBP and an 11" Mac Air. The Air is great for traveling when I need more than an iPad. A 15" Air would be great. But as for a replacement:
1. HDD would probably be a SSD in the Air and capacities are still pretty low. External drives are not a real option if this s to be one's main computer - even with the Cloud.
2. Gigabit ethernet is a must. The Thunderbolt or USB options are poor options if you connect regularly via this method. Not an option if you usually connect wirelessly.
3. Optical drives are definitely on their way out. Apple makes an excellent external USB optical drive. But there is still plenty of optical disks out there, particularly for business applications, and having the built-in drive is a big plus for the users that need it. While optical drives are on their way out, they're not dead just yet.

For me personally, I can do without the optical drive and the gigabit ethernet, but I can't do with a small HDD. Of course, until Apple actually makes the announcement and published the specs, all this is just hot air.
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post #45 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulcinella View Post

I want a Macbook Pro with a Retina Display!

If the 15" Air replaces the Pro there will obviously be a lot of unhappy campers.... but sales will go through the roof.

Hopefully Apple will make moves to fulfill the promise of Thunderbolt in this regard. Most of the issues people have can potentially be solved, and even improved through the use of Thunderbolt.

The Optical is surely a non issue - just get the external one.

Storage is a real issue imo. Hopefully Apple will offer a dual SSD / HD option.
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post #46 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

Which is going to give substantially less throughput than a real gigabit ethernet port.

It would probably be a thunderbolt/ethernet port adaptor, which would be fine.

I would like them to try and squeeze a proper ethernot port in, but more than that I would like to see the pros go the same way as the airs, so if it is dropped I can see why.
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post #47 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

We've had the 13" MB, MBA. and MBP all at the same time but we're suppose to believe that by introducing a 15" MBA that the 15" MBP would be killed off? That's an excessive leap.

As I understand it, the Air pretty much killed-off the 13" Pro in terms of units.

If a thin 15" is well executed, with pro-performance, SSD and perhaps a sub-miniature ethernet port, then yes. The "vanilla" 15" machine will be end-of-line.

And while there will be a handful of users who will bemoan the passing of the built-in optical drive. I think they'll have to shift to external drives. The optical drive is heading the way of the floppy and the parallel printer port. When it comes to the radical-v-conservative axis, Apple have always preferred to be nearer the radical end.

C.
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post #48 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

I'm not. My line of work requires transfer of information between various departments, auditors and 3rd party vendors. We have email caps, so we can't go that way. We don't give out USB drives either. We tried FTP, but some vendors are clueless.

External optical drive. You're happy. They're happy. We're happy.
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post #49 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Really?
I am over optical media. When I last cleared out my office, I threw out the blank DVDs.

C.

Agreed. Optical media is on its last legs. I would be very suprised it the new pros still had their drives this time around ...
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post #50 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:32am
Retina 17-inch MBPAir, SSD, no optical drive or Ethernet FTW.

I carried a 17-inch PowerBook a few years back to sixteen cities over a period of a month in Europe, btw. The 17-inchers are not that big to me.
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post #51 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post

I have a 15" MBP and an 11" Mac Air. The Air is great for traveling when I need more than an iPad. A 15" Air would be great. But as for a replacement:
1. HDD would probably be a SSD in the Air and capacities are still pretty low. External drives are not a real option if this s to be one's main computer - even with the Cloud.
2. Gigabit ethernet is a must. The Thunderbolt or USB options are poor options if you connect regularly via this method. Not an option if you usually connect wirelessly.
3. Optical drives are definitely on their way out. Apple makes an excellent external USB optical drive. But there is still plenty of optical disks out there, particularly for business applications, and having the built-in drive is a big plus for the users that need it. While optical drives are on their way out, they're not dead just yet.

For me personally, I can do without the optical drive and the gigabit ethernet, but I can't do with a small HDD. Of course, until Apple actually makes the announcement and published the specs, all this is just hot air.

If they get rid of the optical disk, there would be plenty of room for a small SSD (perhaps 64 GB) and a 500-1000 GB HDD.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #52 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjones051073 View Post

It would probably be a thunderbolt/ethernet port adaptor, which would be fine.

Yes, a ridiculously priced one most likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjones051073 View Post

I would like them to try and squeeze a proper ethernot port in, but more than that I would like to see the pros go the same way as the airs, so if it is dropped I can see why.

They could put one on the Airs if they wanted to. They just don't.
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post #53 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:34am
I hope they don't just simply add a 15" MBA.

I'd rather see the MBA and MBP combined into one all new exciting design, preferably in black rather than silver.
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post #54 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

Sure, theoretical peak is only half of thunderbolt...

Come on! You know damn well it's 1/4: 2x10 Gb/s = 20Gb/s v. 5 GB/s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

Yes, many people still use optical media for vast amounts of things. The fact that Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden, Sony, Ritek, etc. are still pumping out 100s of millions of optical discs every year is a sure sign of this.

I'd like to see some stats. To say the least, Verbatim has their hands in flash and Blu-ray, too.

The question isn't whether Verbatim isn't finding a new way to make money its whether in 2012 it makes sense to include an ODD in the next 4 years of the Mac notebooks? Who are using ODDs on a regular basis and for what? On a 13" MBP it uses 25% of the internal space, has moving parts, is slow, and using a lot of power to work.

You also need to ask: "Why hasn't Apple put a Blu-ray drive in the MBP if this tech is so useful, so requested, and so needed?" It's been 2 years since that was first possible in an ultra-slim slot-laoding ODD so what's the hold off?

I think the only answer you can find is the ODD is going bye bye.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

They could put one on the Airs if they wanted to. They just don't.

No they couldn't. It's too thin to use an RJ-45.

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post #55 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

We've had the 13" MB, MBA. and MBP all at the same time but we're suppose to believe that by introducing a 15" MBA that the 15" MBP would be killed off? That's an excessive leap.

Yeah, but the fact that there have been 3 x 13" laptops in the line-up must have irked Apple no end. It would make more sense to have 4 physical models, each separated by capability. You could still have a 15" MBA, and a 15" MBA Pro. Now that the white 13" MB has gone - why have two models? There are three main reasons - Optical Drive, HD and Ports. The first is obvious: loose it. The second will be more problematic in terms of space, so I have no answer, and the third I imagine (hope) will be dealt with through Thunderbolt.
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post #56 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Come on! You know damn well it's 1/4: 2x10 Gb/s = 20Gb/s v. 5 GB/s.

So then why does Apple in the mac book pro specs say:

Quote:
Thunderbolt port (up to 10 Gbps)
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post #57 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

PS: I can't believing I'm seeing posters say a Pro needs an ODD. Really?! It's 2012.

The only times I use an optical drive is when I have to send a huge publishing project to Japan or Europe. Many times those archives are 2-3 GB. I can FedEx them there by the time they could download them, if the download even makes it to the end without disconnecting for some reason.

The other thing we use DVDs for is backing up our accounting data and putting it in the fire safe off site. I don't want that stuff on somebody's computer or in the cloud and DVDs are a lot cheaper and more secure than USB memory sticks.

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post #58 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:39am
How dare Apple cannibalize a currently hot product!
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post #59 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

No they couldn't. It's too thin to use an RJ-45.

No, that's baloney. The Air at it's widest has more than enough room to accommodate it. They could stick it on the back where I've seen numerous other laptops put them.
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post #60 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I don't want thinner, I just want lighter, faster with a better screen.

Both MacBook Air 13" and MacBook Pro 15" support 1440 x 900. So the screen of 15" MacBook Air will not be worse.
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post #61 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Why is USB 3.0 highly unlikely? It will be natively supported in Ivy Bridge. I'm expecting Ivy Bridge based macs to include it.

Because it competes with Thunderbolt ? Did a google search on it, and a number of sources are saying apple will add usb 3.0.

We'll have to see, but I sure hope they do
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post #62 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

No, that's baloney. The Air at it's widest has more than enough room to accommodate it. They could stick it on the back where I've seen numerous other laptops put them.

I actually prefer all ports in the back so the cables are not sticking out the side where you are likely to have a book, papers, a mouse, a cup of coffee etc.

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post #63 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:45am
ODD - the grim reaper has arrived.

Better late than never in my opinion
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post #64 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

No, that's baloney. The Air at it's widest has more than enough room to accommodate it. They could stick it on the back where I've seen numerous other laptops put them.

Not true.

MacBook Air unibody at it's widest (the back): 5/16
Ethernet Port (just the hole): 6/16
Ethernet port plus the minimal metal required: just under a half inch
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post #65 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yeah, but the fact that there have been 3 x 13" laptops in the line-up must have irked Apple no end. It would make more sense to have 4 physical models, each separated by capability. You could still have a 15" MBA, and a 15" MBA Pro. Now that the white 13" MB has gone - why have two models? There are three main reasons - Optical Drive, HD and Ports. The first is obvious: loose it. The second will be more problematic in terms of space, so I have no answer, and the third I imagine (hope) will be dealt with through Thunderbolt.

Apple has a patent for a hybrid SSD/HDD that fits in a 2.5" bay. They could potentially use that to the fast boot/wake in the MBAs. Or they could offer a dual-drive system that uses both the SSD card found in the MBAs and a 2.5" SSD/HDD drive.

In regards to ports, once you remove that ODD you give yourself 5.25" of port side space.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The only times I use an optical drive is when I have to send a huge publishing project to Japan or Europe. Many times those archives are 2-3 GB. I can FedEx them there by the time they could download them, if the download even makes it to the end without disconnecting for some reason.

The other thing we use DVDs for is backing up our accounting data and putting it in the fire safe off site. I don't want that stuff on somebody's computer or in the cloud and DVDs are a lot cheaper and more secure than USB memory sticks.

There are certainly uses for the ODD, no one is saying it's not used, but even years after Apple dropped the floppy drive and old ports there were still plenty of valid uses, they just become more fringe each year.

There is nothing saying your project can't use a desktop with an ODD or have an external ODD to complete the work.

As we've seen already the MBA is popular. So much so that the PC industry was heavily focused on it at this year's CES. The ODD simply has too many cons and not enough procs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

No, that's baloney. The Air at it's widest has more than enough room to accommodate it. They could stick it on the back where I've seen numerous other laptops put them.

On the back? where the display is? First of all, that would look awful so Apple won't put it there, secondly there isn't enough room for the electronics as the MBA top casing is milled from a single piece of aluminium to keep it rigid and thin. Just look at the sides of the MBA. There is no room for the height of the RJ-45 jack.

PS: It's 10Gb/s in EACH DIRECTION for a total max bandwidth of 20Gb/s.

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post #66 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

PS: I can't believing I'm seeing posters say a Pro needs an ODD. Really?! It's 2012.

Well it is supposed to be for Pros, right? Pros use ports and devices that consumers generally don't.

While I don't have much of a need for a ODD I can see where a professional photographer or video editor might need one often or often enough to want it in the machine rather than as a peripheral device.

I think there is room for a 15" MBA and 15" MBP. I don't know if Apple see it that way or not.
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post #67 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post

I have a 15" MBP and an 11" Mac Air. The Air is great for traveling when I need more than an iPad. A 15" Air would be great. But as for a replacement:
1. HDD would probably be a SSD in the Air and capacities are still pretty low. External drives are not a real option if this s to be one's main computer - even with the Cloud.
2. Gigabit ethernet is a must. The Thunderbolt or USB options are poor options if you connect regularly via this method. Not an option if you usually connect wirelessly.
3. Optical drives are definitely on their way out. Apple makes an excellent external USB optical drive. But there is still plenty of optical disks out there, particularly for business applications, and having the built-in drive is a big plus for the users that need it. While optical drives are on their way out, they're not dead just yet.

I'd also add the larger potential DRAM capacity of the current Pro over the Air. Having the option to get 8GB is very nice and makes a laptop a feasible development platform, 4GB gets a little tight at times.
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post #68 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I actually prefer all ports in the back so the cables are not sticking out the side where you are likely to have a book, papers, a mouse, a cup of coffee etc.

Won't happen so long as they use their current hinge design. I see no evidence that they would move from this hinge design.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Not true.

MacBook Air unibody at it's widest (the back): 5/16
Ethernet Port (just the hole): 6/16
Ethernet port plus the minimal metal required: just under a half inch

I can see the MBP line following the MBA in styling, but thicker to accommodate the RJ-45 port, a larger battery, 35/45W TDP CPU, and dGPU.

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post #69 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Not true.

MacBook Air unibody at it's widest (the back): 5/16
Ethernet Port (just the hole): 6/16
Ethernet port plus the minimal metal required: just under a half inch

Not sure about the 6/16 part. I guess you don't use rulers very often.

But you're almost right about the 5/16" I just measured the back part of the case to .321" = 8.15 mm

Edit: actually the male RJ-45 is exactly 5/16". Nevertheless, as you say, not enough room for it on the Air.

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post #70 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Won't happen so long as they use their current hinge design. I see no evidence that they would move from this hinge design.


Indeed. Just saying I like not having things sticking out the side especially the right side since I use mine with a mouse often which I always connect with the cable around the back to the other side. And I dislike wireless mice especially the MM.

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post #71 of 184
3/14/12 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Well it is supposed to be for Pros, right? Pros use ports and devices that consumers generally don't.

While I don't have much of a need for a ODD I can see where a professional photographer or video editor might need one often or often enough to want it in the machine rather than as a peripheral device.

I think there is room for a 15" MBA and 15" MBP. I don't know if Apple see it that way or not.

Pros need a lot of things, but as a "pro" user I don't want 25% of my internals taken up by the ODD. Give me more space for ports. Give me more battery life. Give me more room for storage (this is what I do with an after market solution).

Saying you think the ODD has more cons than pros doesn't mean you want the ODD gone without nothing to take up it's slack, it's saying you want to usher in the old for the new.

The ODD is large and forces you place it on an edge. That's problem one because it means all designs revolve around it. You take that one and the MoBo no longer has to be squarish, but can be elongated to help with heat dissipation. It can also be placed along the back hinge of the device so that the CPU and dGPU can be cooled more efficiently. It really opens you up to a lot of new design concepts that you simply can't do with the ODD.

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post #72 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Indeed. Just saying I like not having things sticking out the side especially the right side since I use mine with a mouse often which I always connect with the cable around the back to the other side. And I dislike wireless mice especially the MM.

I always thought the first Dell Adamo was smart looking.

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post #73 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz View Post

USB won't cut it for gigabit, unless it's USB3 (highly unlikely)

Ivy Bridge will have native support for USB 3.0. I say it is a high probability to be included. That should make it possible to have inexpensive adapters for high-speed Ethernet.
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post #74 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

Ivy Bridge will have native support for USB 3.0. I say it is a high probability to be included. That should make it possible to have inexpensive adapters for high-speed Ethernet.

Apple would have to be really shitty for not including USB 3.0 once the controller is in the CPU.

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post #75 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Pros need a lot of things, but as a "pro" user I don't want 25% of my internals taken up by the ODD. Give me more space for ports. Give me more battery life. Give me more room for storage (this is what I do with an after market solution).

Saying you think the ODD has more cons than pros doesn't mean you want the ODD gone without nothing to take up it's slack, it's saying you want to usher in the old for the new.

The ODD is large and forces you place it on an edge. That's problem one because it means all designs revolve around it. You take that one and the MoBo no longer has to be squarish, but can be elongated to help with heat dissipation. It can also be placed along the back hinge of the device so that the CPU and dGPU can be cooled more efficiently. It really opens you up to a lot of new design concepts that you simply can't do with the ODD.

I was amused by the sources cited on this article. They actually stated that it was speculation from an anonymous accessory maker. They're taking guesses and leveraging them into their plans for accessory designs. I'd actually like it if Apple did some of what you mention here in terms of heat dissipation. A silent machine that runs cooler, the potential for a second drive, or longer battery life would be very "Pro". I guess Apple can do whatever they like, but they pretty much address the capacity of what can really be addressed within the typical Air density. I am not sure how much they'd gain building a 15" Air. The weight also seems to be commonly misunderstood. I don't think the shell is a massive contributing factor there compared to what is inside it. The next time I do any real travel I plan to pick up what happens to be the current air just because it fits so well in a backpack. Unfortunately I doubt drive capacity will be greater at that time .
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post #76 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

Ivy Bridge will have native support for USB 3.0. I say it is a high probability to be included. That should make it possible to have inexpensive adapters for high-speed Ethernet.

For a variety of reasons from security to reliability. This need for people to try to sell the reset of us USB to Ethernet adapters is very perplexing and indicates a simple understanding of the issues involved.
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post #77 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonfj View Post

External optical drive. You're happy. They're happy. We're happy.

No thanks. I despise carrying external anything for a device.
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post #78 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Why rush out to buy a Pro based on rumors? If Apple does drop it, there will be plenty of places to buy existing stock - and probably at a discount.

Best move is to buy a computer when you need it. If you don't need it, don't buy.



I don't see them killing the Pro at all. Read the quote - 'killing the Pro FOR THE AVERAGE CONSUMER'. I would anticipate that the Pro would remain the high end laptop.

One possible scenario would be to drop the 13" pro to make the new lines:
MBA - 11, 13, and 15"
MBP - 15 and 17"

The main differences would be that the Pro has more ports (including Ethernet), optical disk and discrete graphics. For some people that would be worth a significant premie, so I don't see how they would reduce prices.

It would, however, significantly reduce the volume of Pro systems. I suspect that there are a lot of people like me. I love the Air, but can't manage with a 13" screen. If there were a 15" Air, I'd buy one. If not, I'll get either a 15 or 17" Pro.

Best post I've read so far on this subject.

"One possible scenario would be to drop the 13" pro to make the new lines:
MBA - 11, 13, and 15"
MBP - 15 and 17"

This seems the most logical scenario to me as well. Also, don't forget the other advantages of the pro is that they have quad-core processors and can be expanded up to 8GB of RAM vs dual-core processors & 4GB of RAM on the MBA.
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post #79 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJameson View Post

Why? That would be a total rip off.

Thunderbolt transceiver to GigE Mac to GigE PHY and they won't be selling tons of them so not a lot of volume.
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post #80 of 184
3/14/12 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

No thanks. I despise carrying external anything for a device.

I really quite dislike carrying useless stuff that is welded to the inside of my computer (if I never use it).

C.
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