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Teardown of Apple's new iPad finds Samsung-built Retina display, A5X CPU - Page 2

post #41 of 108
3/15/12 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Judging by the success of the Fire, I'd have to say you're clueless.

Actually I'm far from clueless, I own more tablets from different manufactures then anyone I have ever met. However, I was talking about if I was going to replace an iPad with a similiar priced tablet It would have to have something that I don't have on my iPad. The Samsung 10.1 is very similiar to the iPad in that it doesn't offer any of those formentioned things. You bring up a sub 200 dollar tablet, hey if that all it takes for you to be happy then by all means knock your self out.
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post #42 of 108
3/15/12 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Why only keyboards?

There are not many consumer devices that requires long battery life OVER data transmission speed. Limited usage for things like heart rate monitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't see anybody mentioning anything about any Playbook on the official Bluetooth site.

It is listed as Bluetooth 3.1 on the official Bluetooth website --- but there is no such thing as Bluetooth 3.1.

https://www.bluetooth.org/tpg/EPL_De...roductID=20291

You click the "technical information" and then click further on "view PICS details" --- the Playbook passes Bluetooth's original core 4.0 specs (but not the amended Dec 2011 4.0 version).
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post #43 of 108
3/15/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I love iFixit, especially this commitment to travel from CA, USA to Australia to get this teardown out a few hours early.

It's a good excuse to stop over in Asia for a day of light shopping as well. Akihabara, anyone?
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post #44 of 108
3/15/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
A complete disassembly of the new iPad has offered a glimpse inside the hardware, including a Samsung-built Retina display and A5X processor.

Yeah, not really news for anyone who follows AI regularly...
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #45 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

2) I'm sure it's 45nm but for the 6th gen iPhone I think it's possible to be 32nm. There is a lot about this A5X the G6 iPhone doesn't need. I also expect the MDM9600 to be replaced by the MDM9615.

Apple could just use a 1.2 GHz A5 in the next iPhone, if they want to increase CPU/GPU performance at all. They'll need the MDM9615 if they don't want to have thicker device or a bigger device.

Quote:
3) So that leaves about 40% more power draw to the display assembly?

My guess is that out of the ~4.7 W power draw with LTE web browsing or video streaming, it'll be about:

MDM9600: 0.5 W
A5X + RAM: 0.75 W
Display: 3.5 W (50 to 70% brightness)

Everything else is assumed negligible. So, if they want to make any headway into reducing power consumption, they need that IGZO display tech in addition to finding more efficient LEDs which power the backlight.
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post #46 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

Apple could just use a 1.2 GHz A5 in the next iPhone, if they want to increase CPU/GPU performance at all. They'll need the MDM9615 if they don't want to have thicker device or a bigger device.

Yes, I agree --- with a process shrink, Apple can jut put a faster A5 on the next iphone.
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post #47 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

Note that the SoC isn't in a package-on-package anymore. The RAM is mounted on the other side of the PCB. The A5X looks to be you typical BGA style CPU package. This probably means it's a 45 nm part. How they'll fit all this into the iPhone I don't know.

If the frequency is the same and the voltages are the same, this power consumption is just linear with the increase in number of transistors. The extra two GPU cores was about 30-40% of the die space in the A5 die pictures. So ~30% if it is using the same fab process as the A5.

Wait and see.

Hoo boy. If the A5X is really a 45nm part I will be returning my pre-ordered 16 GB Wi-Fi. The battery in the new iPad may be higher capacity, but it'll take longer to charge and a bigger/hotter SoC will cause its capacity to decrease more rapidly.
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post #48 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:18pm
Broadcom BCM4330 802.11a/b/g/n MAC/Baseband/Radio with Integrated Bluetooth 4.0+HS and FM Transceiver

SWEET, this thing has an FM Transceiver! NOW i can't wait until tomorrow!
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post #49 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

Broadcom BCM4330 802.11a/b/g/n MAC/Baseband/Radio with Integrated Bluetooth 4.0+HS and FM Transceiver

SWEET, this thing has an FM Transceiver! NOW i can't wait until tomorrow!

The chip may have a FM tuner, but does it have a FM antenna attached to it.
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post #50 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The chip may have a FM tuner, but does it have a FM antenna attached to it.

Well if it's like most devices it just uses the wire off of your earphones as the antenna. At least that is what my phones do.
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post #51 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Well if it's like most devices it just uses the wire off of your earphones as the antenna. At least that is what my phones do.

So you are telling me that you won't get FM radio if you just use the ipad's internal speakers?
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post #52 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

I can't believe Apple won the lawsuit in Germany preventing the sale of the Galaxy Tab and Samsung still sells them parts for the iPad.
really makes me wonder what the point of all the lawsuits are....... odd.

In the last year or two, a Samsung exec flew to California and met with Apple (maybe Steve) and Apple locked them into a parts deal that runs until about 2014. Sammy can't run away from that contract without suffering serious losses in revenue as well as legal judgments for breach of contract.

Apple commenced the lawsuits right after inking that deal. They knew what was coming, but I don't think Sammy did. I think Apple's working hard to develop other supplier relationships before 2014, when Sammy could (but probably won't) cut ties with them.
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post #53 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Maybe the iPad is just the device which makes it take off, since they're going to sell many tens of millions of them. The iPhone 4S also has it, so that's hundreds of millions of people.

There are some health devices which already use bluetooth 4.0.

Nike Fuel band is bluetooth 4.0. I think that we're going to see a lot of 4.0 accessories this year.

Not sure why, but my 4S does not detect my MBA when both have BT enabled. It just doesn't work seamlessly, IMO.
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post #54 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

So you are telling me that you won't get FM radio if you just use the ipad's internal speakers?

That's the way the iPod nano 4th gen did it. Very handy thing to have.
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post #55 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

There are not many consumer devices that requires long battery life OVER data transmission speed. Limited usage for things like heart rate monitors.

What about BT headsets? Or wearable computing devices like Nike Fuel Band and it's successors that can monitor many vitals and then trickle update data periodically or remote controls that don't require line-of-sight?

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post #56 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

Broadcom BCM4330 802.11a/b/g/n MAC/Baseband/Radio with Integrated Bluetooth 4.0+HS and FM Transceiver

SWEET, this thing has an FM Transceiver! NOW i can't wait until tomorrow!

The ipad 2 , iphone 4s and iphone 4 all have fm transceivers in them also. The ipad 3 will not be any different. Apple will not have it enabled.
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post #57 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

What about BT headsets? Or wearable computing devices like Nike Fuel Band and it's successors that can monitor many vitals and then trickle update data periodically or remote controls that don't require line-of-sight?

I don't know whether BT 4.0 is fast enough for streaming audio because its throughput is about 200 kbps.
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post #58 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:41pm
Cost is probably a big issue.

Another issue is performance. In this regard they most likely needed a significant increase in bandwidth over the A5 to push all of those pixels.

As to process technology it would be a disappoinmet if they didn't make 32nm but I suspect they where heavily focused on other engineering issues to deliver this iPad. It also makes me think iPhone 5 will have an entirely different processor.

Hopefully somebody will take it upon themselves to pull one of the A5X chips apart for an under the skirt photo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

Note that the SoC isn't in a package-on-package anymore. The RAM is mounted on the other side of the PCB. The A5X looks to be you typical BGA style CPU package. This probably means it's a 45 nm part. How they'll fit all this into the iPhone I don't know.

If the frequency is the same and the voltages are the same, this power consumption is just linear with the increase in number of transistors. The extra two GPU cores was about 30-40% of the die space in the A5 die pictures. So ~30% if it is using the same fab process as the A5.

Wait and see.
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post #59 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I don't know whether BT 4.0 is fast enough for streaming audio because its throughput is about 200 kbps.

I wasn't thinking about when it's on a call, I was thinking about it being in BLE between calls for an enhanced standby time (speculative). BLE also allows for a faster setup time, too so when you press and hold the button to talk to Siri or a local phone system to make a call it may appear more responsive.

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post #60 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

- Bluetooth 4.0 (first tablet to have bluetooth 4.0) = Check

The new iPad boasts obvious improvements such as a sharp Retina display, faster graphics, and 4G LTE but it breaks Bluetooth ground, too, which is just as significant.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-573...ould-you-care/

Oh neato, two devices (that probably aren't in production yet) to use BT4.0! Until there is some decent adoption of this protocol, no one cares about it. Just like thunderbolt. Speaking of thunderbolt, can't wait to get my USB 3.0 docking station.
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post #61 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

In the last year or two, a Samsung exec flew to California and met with Apple (maybe Steve) and Apple locked them into a parts deal that runs until about 2014. Sammy can't run away from that contract without suffering serious losses in revenue as well as legal judgments for breach of contract.

Apple commenced the lawsuits right after inking that deal. They knew what was coming, but I don't think Sammy did. I think Apple's working hard to develop other supplier relationships before 2014, when Sammy could (but probably won't) cut ties with them.

That meeting was with Tim Cook after he became CEO in late last year, they decided to extend the deal to 2014 and among other things increase SSD's in the MBAs. Samsung has no reason to "run away" from the contracts. Why would it relinquish the prestige of having its arch-rival depend on it for critical components.
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post #62 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

The A5X looks to be you typical BGA style CPU package. This probably means it's a 45 nm part. How they'll fit all this into the iPhone I don't know.

Update:
Quote:
Using photoshop and the mystical power of ratios we come up with a rough estimate of 10.8mm x 10.8mm for the A5X die, or 117.5mm^2. If you remember back to our iPad analysis article, we guessed that conservative scaling on a 32nm process would give Apple a ~125mm^2 die for the A5X. While there's a lot of estimation in our methodology, it appears likely that the A5X's die is built on a 28/32nm process - or at least not a 45nm process. Note that this value is entirely dependent on the dimensions of Toshiba's NAND being accurate as well as the photo being as level and distortion-free as possible.

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post #63 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wasn't thinking about when it's on a call, I was thinking about it being in BLE between calls for an enhanced standby time (speculative). BLE also allows for a faster setup time, too so when you press and hold the button to talk to Siri or a local phone system to make a call it may appear more responsive.

Phone calls should have no problems because they have bitrates that are much lower than that. I was thinking about music bitrates.
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post #64 of 108
3/15/12 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Phone calls should have no problems because they have bitrates that are much lower than that. I was thinking about music bitrates.

I wasn't even considering BT headphones, just handsfree calling. They really only use less than 25 KB/s for a voice call? I was think it was 64 KB/s (512 Kb/s) but certainly not considering modern compression methods.

edit: Nope, I'm wrong. Voice channels were 64 Kb/s not KB. Ouch! That hurts to forget something so fundamental to your previous career.

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post #65 of 108
3/15/12 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by john_l_uk View Post

Steve Jobs used to say 'Redmond start your photocopiers' - now 'It's Samsung start your cloning'. Of course having to give them the contract for the retina display in the first place is the weak link in Apple's supply chain because they're always 'In the loop' about about Apple's next move. You couldn't make it up!

Samsung would know what Apple was up to no matter what if any relationship existed between them. Apple simply partners with the best providers of technology. Make no mistake about it these are partnerships and Samsung is well aware of Apples success and thus the potential for income off that relationship. I doubt either company wants to throw away what they have accomplished together.
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post #66 of 108
3/15/12 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune View Post

Why would it relinquish the prestige of having its arch-rival depend on it for critical components.

That's completely offset by the fact they rely on Apple for their os and design.
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post #67 of 108
3/15/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye Forget View Post

That's completely offset by the fact they rely on Apple for their os and design.

The Galaxy S app screen looking like the 3GS home screen. Is that what you are talking about?
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post #68 of 108
3/15/12 at 3:15pm
The reality is iPad wouldn't even be possible without today's LED tech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

Apple could just use a 1.2 GHz A5 in the next iPhone, if they want to increase CPU/GPU performance at all. They'll need the MDM9615 if they don't want to have thicker device or a bigger device.



My guess is that out of the ~4.7 W power draw with LTE web browsing or video streaming, it'll be about:

MDM9600: 0.5 W
A5X + RAM: 0.75 W
Display: 3.5 W (50 to 70% brightness)

I think your numbers are a little off, the A5X most likely runs at about 2-4 watts all out. Each core would be somewhere between a 1/4 and a 1/2 watt, and the GPUs probably one watt or even a little more now. RAM is interesting here because I'm imagining it is pretty fast RAM so it could be another watt or more.
Quote:
Everything else is assumed negligible. So, if they want to make any headway into reducing power consumption, they need that IGZO display tech in addition to finding more efficient LEDs which power the backlight.

Back lighting has always been a major power drain, even on laptops it is a significant drain. While great strides have been made (LEDs make the iPad possible) I don't see any major break through coming for conventional LEDs. The big advance will come when Apple can start to deliver entire PC boards buopilt on 22nm tech as you Wally want to get the whole PC board running on less than two watts at full performance.
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post #69 of 108
3/15/12 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Update:

Sounds like a reasonable if wild assed guess to me.

People should look back to recent history though, Samsungs Austin plant announced a few months ago that they where shipping parts. Being a new plant that is also rumored to be the result of a partnership with Apple, you can be fairly confident that the part is 32nm or smaller. which brings up the interesting question of where that power is going to. Some is obviously going to drive the extra GPUs but I suspect most of it is going to the LTE chip. This makes me wonder how well the unit will perform with LTE shut off or the WiFi only unit, battery wise.

Damn I'm getting excited. Here to an early arrival tomorrow.
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post #70 of 108
3/15/12 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Not having the software ready is pretty pathetic. No wonder why RIM's stock is down in the dumps.

I don't see anybody mentioning anything about any Playbook on the official Bluetooth site.

The addition of Bluetooth v4.0 makes the new iPad the worlds first Bluetooth Smart Ready tablet, allowing it to connect with the billions of today's Bluetooth devices and the next generation of Bluetooth Smart devicesrunning applications that turn data from those devices into useful information.

http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/Bluet...t-Devices.aspx

Saw this on the www.bluetooth.com website as well. Says new iPad "is the worlds first Bluetooth Smart Ready tablet." http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/Press...spx?ItemID=148

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post #71 of 108
3/15/12 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Sounds like a reasonable if wild assed guess to me.

Indeed! But if stated in a rational way I'm more than willing to entertain it. It's the wide-eyed dreams and wishes that aren't based in reality that I take issue with.

Quote:
This makes me wonder how well the unit will perform with LTE shut off or the WiFi only unit, battery wise.

We now how it will long it will last without LTE on. The real question is how long it will last with Airplane Mode enabled and just reading or just watching videos at 50, 75, and 100% brightness.

That display probably doesn't allow for the same light penetration as the previous display even if they did move to LG's AH-IPS. I think that is that could take a huge toll. Plus, using the 50% brightness slider on the iPad is a relative measure. Is the same percentage on the iPad 2 the same luminosity as the iPad 3? I'm actually hoping for it to be brighter as I found the first two iPads to be less bright than I wanted. Finally, didn't Apple change their battery method after the iPad 2 was released? So far I'm not seeing any tests showing anything over the stated times but I also haven't seen any good tests on battery from the early release reviewers.

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post #72 of 108
3/15/12 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune View Post

The Galaxy S app screen looking like the 3GS home screen. Is that what you are talking about?

Is there any other way to display apps, it's just a grid. I still have a Nokia Communicator 9510 in which I use as a FAX machine and it it displays it's apps in the same exact way and it was built prior to the iPhone. What about Apples notification system that was introduced in iOS5, I don't know it looks an awfully like what Android has been doing since version 1.6. I don't think it's a matter of blatant copying but using what just makes sense and what is the most useable for a user.

If I had my way I think there are a lot of great features that Android 4.03 has that would be awesome on the iPad. I think we should be more forgiving of company's so called copying eache others UI improvements because it only makes the users life easier.
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post #73 of 108
3/15/12 at 4:37pm
I got one, I got one, I have a iPod 3. my sister just dropped it off. She gave it to the night nurse who just gave it to me. As a surprise to get my spirits up for being in the hospital all my friends and family all chipped in and convinced a dealer to sell it to them at 12:00 am. Oh my gosh, I'm crying that was sweat of them. OK give me a sec to collect myself.
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post #74 of 108
3/15/12 at 4:45pm
OK it's the 32GB, 4G model. Just opened it up and am now setting it up. I don't know how much time I have with it as the nurse was clear that she would give it to me only if I promise to go to sleep in a half an hour. Sorry guys I just had major surgery and I will have to go back under in the morning so hurry up with your questions. OK so far the screen, its amazing, clear and very crisp. This is the first time I have ever scene a screen that doesn't look digital almost as if its a book.
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post #75 of 108
3/15/12 at 4:53pm
OK just tested the camera as that was a real big feature for me. OK it needs a flash, its to dark in my room to get a decent picture, their coming out to grainy. Ill try in the morning when there is light after I wake from surgery. I need some apps that that were made for this resolution. Beside iPhoto do you guys know of any apps that were made for this resolution?
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post #76 of 108
3/15/12 at 4:57pm
The photo app is pretty incredible, blazing fast. I'm syncing with my iCloud and now have most of my picture on it. OK this app rocks I love how much more fluid everything seems. Granted it is a clean machine.
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post #77 of 108
3/15/12 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Ill try in the morning when there is light after I wake from surgery.

I wish you well.

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post #78 of 108
3/15/12 at 5:02pm
Yep I knew it, OK I just installed iElectribe Gorillas one of my favorite music apps and not everything is looks good with this new resolution. Company's are defiantly going to have to update their stuff. Things that have a lot of pictures to labor buttons are a little fuzzy. Easy fix I'm sure. IMS20 and the original IElectribe looks pretty good though. OK installing iWork.
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post #79 of 108
3/15/12 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Nice 'gadget pron'!

- 1gb RAM (finally) = Check
- New GPU/same CPU = Check
- Very capable battery/same-ish size = Check
- New-ish camera module = Check
- New Display panel = Check

... and that's about it, as well as just enough to keep most users satisfied until about a year from now.

The quality of the screen is spectacular as is the graphics perforance ... and ties into 1080p imaging to combine with iTV for wireless Airplay interfacing with existing most TVs.
battery is same hourly rate, but is 70% more capacity to do so.
Reason is 4x more pixels and much more demanding ... thus 4x the GPU performance
plus 1 gig of Ram vs 512 in previous iPad models.
Also the camera is much better ... approx the same as in iPhone 4s
Also added a new dictation feature with a direct access key on the virtural keyboard.
Plus 4G radios for universal use with all carriers. Specific software mods will be used by Verizon and Att.
plus bluetooth 4.o which is much less power demanding.
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post #80 of 108
3/15/12 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wish you well.

Oh thank you I appreciate that. It sucks just lying here the most. I do have a lot of gizmos with me but to be honest with you I'm just really wiped out so I sleep all day. Not right now though.
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  • Teardown of Apple's new iPad finds Samsung-built Retina display, A5X CPU
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