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Teardown of Apple's new iPad finds Samsung-built Retina display, A5X CPU - Page 3

post #81 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter61 View Post

battery is same hourly rate, but is 70% more capacity to do so.
Reason is 4x more pixels and much more demanding ... thus 4x the GPU performance
plus 1 gig of Ram vs 512 in previous iPad models.
Also the camera is much better ... approx the same as in iPhone 4s

Oh the graphics thanks for reminding me. Need to install Modern Combat 3 tobtest graphic chip.
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post #82 of 108
Since a few brought up Bluetooth.........

I just purchased the Plantronics M100 Bluetooth Headset and am a bit disappointed with the crackling, static and cutting out. I've paired it with my new iPhone 4S and use it while on quiet walks. It's fairly difficult to have a normal conversation while using it unless it's dead quiet outside. So I usually cup my ear to help it out. On sunny days, I much prefer to just hold out my phone so I can use the speakerphone.

How do the BT headphones work? I'd love to get rid of those long, ungainly cables.

As far as the iPad goes, I've used BT speakers but ended up preferring my wired ones as they are faster to get going and sound better.

Not impressed with BT in general, but maybe my mileage is varying on the downside...

The first thing I'm going to do when I receive my new iPad is fire up the WSJ and compare the text, assuming they are Retina Ready.
post #83 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter61 View Post

Reason is 4x more pixels and much more demanding ... thus 4x the GPU performance

The ipad 2 already has a dual-core GPU. So the ipad 3 with quad-core GPU is only 2x GPU performance --- while pushing 4x as many pixels.
post #84 of 108
OK all the iWork stuff looks pretty much the same well except for the most impressive clarity I have ever seen. However when I compare my Samsung 7.7 with the AMOLED to the new iPads Retna display I still think the Samsung looks better color wise. I don't know it just seems to pop more. The iPad 3 though hands done has the better rez though, Good bye jagged lines of any kind. Oh that's an interest thought is there a good Cad program for the iPad.
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post #85 of 108
OK Modern Combat is done downloading and firing it up now. Blah blah your mission is..... OK here we go f*ck me, OK gamers I think you are going to be very impressed here. Modern Combat was just OK on the iPad 2 it would constantly studder though. What I see here is smooth as silk. I'm guessing I'm getting over 100 FPS here. It's just amazing.
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post #86 of 108
If anyone has a specific app they want tested I don't mind buying it as I also got a iTunes gift card that came with the iPad. Plus I'm always looking for new cool apps. I will also be more then happy to take screen shots of your program and post them.

So to really some it up so far, the screen is really great rez wise not the best when it comes to color saturation as I mentioned before but defiantly good. The speed I think is where a lot of people are going to be the most happy with. Especially if your a gamer, I have never owned a device that is this fluid. The OS is exactly the same however I see a couple of more options in settings that I will explore next.

I live in Switzerland so I don't have LTE but the modem performance is still very good. When I was downloading Modern Combat I was getting close to 9mbs. The camera still sucks in low light even with my small bed lamp on. I'll have to wait till morning to play with that and the 1080p recording which is going to rock.

Is it worth the upgrade from iPad2 function wise no not really, you can do the same stuff on either machine. I can see you wanting to upgrade if you like gaming or just have money burning a hole in your pocket or in my case have very generous friends and family.

People you can't afford to upgrade I really don't think they'll miss much though.

That being said though my god that resolution is fantastic.
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post #87 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

edit: Nope, I'm wrong. Voice channels were 64 Kb/s not KB. Ouch! That hurts to forget something so fundamental to your previous career.

In all honesty, I didn't expect a typo like that from you. Your knowledge on these IT topics you so happily share in almost every article this website enrich all of us readers is very much appreciated.

The number of times people write bit instead of byte or some such is, to me, quite staggering though.

But, props to you sir, and please, keep on sharing your knowledge and opinions!
post #88 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

In all honesty, I didn't expect a typo like that from you.

This is what's really embarrassing, it wasn't a typo I actually thought it was 64 kiloBYTES for PCM (DS0).

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #89 of 108
On a side note though I was kind of thinking about LTE just now while hugging my new iPad for warmth. Americas pay 50 dollars a month for just 5 GB. In Europe we pay 50 bucks a month for unlimited downloading. Now granted LTE is faster but I get almost 12mbs with my slower network which isn't to bad but I use like 5 GB every 4 days. I just can't imagine being capped at 5GB for the entire month like you guys are. Doesn't it frustrate you to no end that you have such greedy telecoms.

Now yes, I do use torrents for movies and stream TV shows and download huge amounts PDF's on my tablets and phones but isn't that what they were designed to do?

I'm just saying I really feel bad for you guys and if I were you I would all move to Europe. You could sleep in my guest bedroom until you get settled. I heard Lego was hiring down the street.

Hey guys, on a more serious note I go under the knife tomorrow for the second time this week and if you can find it in you hearts to pray or just think happy thought if you don't believe in that kind of thing. I'm kind of scared. Sorry if I got to emotional on a tech forum. Anyway thanks
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post #90 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is what's really embarrassing, it wasn't a typo I actually thought it was 64 kiloBYTES for PCM (DS0).

Oops. Ok. Thank you for your honosty. Commendable!
post #91 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

I can't believe Apple won the lawsuit in Germany preventing the sale of the Galaxy Tab and Samsung still sells them parts for the iPad.
really makes me wonder what the point of all the lawsuits are....... odd.

The point of the lawsuits is to enable Apple to develop a stranglehold on the tablet market before anyone else (including Samsung) can establish a foothold so that by the time Samsung et al do get their act together and all these lawsuits are settled Apple will already have a dominant position in the tablet market like they do in the MP3 market with the iPod. Once you get 60% market share you can dictate terms to suppliers, get the best prices for components and buy up components in bulk thereby limiting the availability for competing products. Once established as the defacto product in the tablet space it will be very difficult for competitors to knock Apple off that position. So in that sense the lawsuits are largely a delaying tactic.
post #92 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is what's really embarrassing, it wasn't a typo I actually thought it was 64 kiloBYTES for PCM (DS0).

Psst, I just can't believe you made that mistake, we all know how it's supposed to be spelled, get with the game sir.
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post #93 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

The point of the lawsuits is to enable Apple to develop a stranglehold on the tablet market before anyone else (including Samsung) can establish a foothold so that by the time Samsung et al do get their act together and all these lawsuits are settled Apple will already have a dominant position in the tablet market like they do in the MP3 market with the iPod. Once you get 60% market share you can dictate terms to suppliers, get the best prices for components and buy up components in bulk thereby limiting the availability for competing products. Once established as the defacto product in the tablet space it will be very difficult for competitors to knock Apple off that position. So in that sense the lawsuits are largely a delaying tactic.

So what you are saying is Apple is evil. Even though they have pretty much the entire market in the bag they just can't stand it when some one else is also making money. I hate to say it but I really hope Microsoft makes a big splash with their tablets. This market really needs more competition.

Of course it's for more personal reasons because maybe Apple will then be forced into giving us a miniSD card slot, a file manager to access the files on that miniSD card or even network drives and the ability to plug the iPad into any computer and mount it as a drive. Three things that I've wanted so bad for so long. So much so that It forced me into buying products with Android as it's OS. How dare you Apple put me in that situation.
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post #94 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

So what you are saying is Apple is evil. Even though they have pretty much the entire market in the bag they just can't stand it when some one else is also making money.

Not so much evil as greedy. That's capitalism. Apple's aim is to make as much money as possible. They're not here to save the planet, build a better world or any other such laudable cause. They just exist to make money. Lots and lots of lovely money. Why? So they can make their executives rich through stock options, so they can make their shareholders rich through the rising share price. Most companies are the same. Right or wrong? Who knows but I suspect most people don't care.
post #95 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Anandtech A5X size estimate

That's some really conservative scaling!

I was really looking for somewhere around 80 mm^2 to indicate it is a 32 nm part. That's basically perfect scaling from 160 mm^2 and 45 nm. Things are never perfect, but only decreasing to 120 mm^2 for a full node seems really conservative.

It could be 40 nm part. A straight scale from 160 mm^2 45 nm to 40 nm would be 125 mm^2.

Then again, maybe the Toshiba flash package is bigger than believed. Who knows. Hopefully ifixit will measure it soon.
post #96 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I think your numbers are a little off, the A5X most likely runs at about 2-4 watts all out. Each core would be somewhere between a 1/4 and a 1/2 watt, and the GPUs probably one watt or even a little more now. RAM is interesting here because I'm imagining it is pretty fast RAM so it could be another watt or more.

Was going for numbers that would meet the 10 hr on WiFi and 9 hours on LTE. Going all out obviously would draw more power. No one's really done that test, so who knows what the TDP of all the parts are. MG Siegler said it got "warm" while on LTE. That doesn't sound comforting.

There are interesting data points out there. Anandtech measured 1.3 W for an iPhone 4S on 3G web browsing, 0.7 W for running a video. This is for the whole phone. Displaymate measured the iPhone 4 display at about 0.42 W. Displaymate also measured the iPad 2 display at about 2.7 W at max brightness.

From this, you can at least discern that the A5+3G is drawing about 0.9 W while 3G browsing if all the measurements are correct. If the A5X is a 45 nm part, operating at the same voltage and frequency as the A5, it's on the order of 0.75 while running a web browser.

Going all out, like playing a heavy, multiplayer 3D game with lots of radio traffic, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it only got 5 or 6 hours and got really "warm". My 4S gets really warm running 3D games.

Quote:
Back lighting has always been a major power drain, even on laptops it is a significant drain. While great strides have been made (LEDs make the iPad possible) I don't see any major break through coming for conventional LEDs. The big advance will come when Apple can start to deliver entire PC boards buopilt on 22nm tech as you Wally want to get the whole PC board running on less than two watts at full performance.

The IGZO LCD should reduce the need for backlight power on LCD screens, if it ever goes into production. But yeah, I think the trends towards bigger batteries is inevitable.
post #97 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Not so much evil as greedy. That's capitalism. Apple's aim is to make as much money as possible. They're not here to save the planet, build a better world or any other such laudable cause. They just exist to make money. Lots and lots of lovely money. Why? So they can make their executives rich through stock options, so they can make their shareholders rich through the rising share price. Most companies are the same. Right or wrong? Who knows but I suspect most people don't care.

Shhhh I had to close up shop with my tablet and move to my phone the night nurse keeps looking in on me I hate being in the ICU.

People around these parts are willing to take a bullet for Apple because they think the company is the second coming. Now I really enjoy most of their products and will always have a Macbook air in my life but the iPad was made for one reason to sell content threw iTunes. That is why the OS is the most locked up system I have ever seen. I'm mean the OS doesn't even support a slave mode where I could attach it to a computer and mount it as a drive or has a file manager or even something as simple as a miniSD drive. I will be crucified for saying such things on this board but Apples journey in collecting the all mighty dollar is starting to make their products a little to unfriendly for my taste.

Now I have the new iPad and it is pretty incredible in a lot of ways and I won't give it up anytime soon because well it was a gift and most importantly the music creation apps that are available for it are simply amazing. However the second that Korg and other music developers start making them for Android though I'm jumping ship completly. They have already started to. I like choice and freedom to do what I want on my device to much to stick with a company that is making my life difficult because I don't want to use their content. Plus I don't care what anyone thinks on this board but Android 4.03 is awesome. It is so much more powerful, customizable and fun.

Here's hoping iOS 6 opens things up a little because I really think iOS could be all the things I want in OS, like OSX. Give me a mobile version of OSX or at least add a touch screen to the MacBook Air.
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post #98 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Oh neato, two devices (that probably aren't in production yet) to use BT4.0! Until there is some decent adoption of this protocol, no one cares about it. Just like thunderbolt. Speaking of thunderbolt, can't wait to get my USB 3.0 docking station.

It seems some chipset makers (such as Broadcom) are working on BT 3.1 --- which is using the classic high power radio (BT 1.0-3.0) with a bunch of low power techniques (the 0.1 in the BT 3.1). BT 4.0 is using an non-compatible low power radio with a bunch of low power techniques.

http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/6/26...r-battery-life

The Playbook tablet itself has a BT 4.0 chipset, but RIM decided to use this Broadcom BT 3.1 chip to power the bluetooth keyboard.
post #99 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Here's hoping iOS 6 opens things up a little because I really think iOS could be all the things I want in OS, like OSX. Give me a mobile version of OSX or at least add a touch screen to the MacBook Air.

There is no way Apple is going to open things up. This has been their corporate strategy right from when the company was formed. They want to keep you inside that nice, fluffy walled garden so you have to keep buying Apple products. It's the age old "open" or "closed" argument. If you love all things Apple and are happy to just take what they chose to give then stay inside. If you like to mix and match things according a specific set of needs then you are probably better outside. I'm not saying one is better than the other.

Apple makes one smartphone - take it or leave it. Android has hundreds of different handsets of all shapes and sizes, which creates its own problems. Apple is all about simplicity and you can't get any simpler than one smartphone to chose from. A lot of people prefer that coz they don't have to think about things, it just works. For example I went to enquire about the Galaxy Note the other day. It was very confusing. I don't know what app's would work on it. I don't know (and neither did the salesman) if you can upgrade the OS once 4.0 comes out, etc. So I didn't buy. The Apple world may be a walled garden but that does have certain advantages if you want things to just work.
post #100 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

There is no way Apple is going to open things up. This has been their corporate strategy right from when the company was formed. They want to keep you inside that nice, fluffy walled garden so you have to keep buying Apple products. It's the age old "open" or "closed" argument. If you love all things Apple and are happy to just take what they chose to give then stay inside. If you like to mix and match things according a specific set of needs then you are probably better outside. I'm not saying one is better than the other.

Apple makes one smartphone - take it or leave it. Android has hundreds of different handsets of all shapes and sizes, which creates its own problems. Apple is all about simplicity and you can't get any simpler than one smartphone to chose from. A lot of people prefer that coz they don't have to think about things, it just works. For example I went to enquire about the Galaxy Note the other day. It was very confusing. I don't know what app's would work on it. I don't know (and neither did the salesman) if you can upgrade the OS once 4.0 comes out, etc. So I didn't buy. The Apple world may be a walled garden but that does have certain advantages if you want things to just work.

Oh I have the Galaxy Note if you have any questions I will answer them honestly. ICS 4 will be released in the next 2 weeks. There was a Europena leak of it last week and I just flashed mine with it and so far I haven't seen in any bugs which means the release is close. Samsung just released ICS for the Galaxy II on Wed. next will be the Note then the tablets.

The phone is really the most incredible phone on the market today. It's very fast, the screen is just wow, SAMOLED is just so awsome you will never see a screen like that on any other phone. I use the pen everyday, it's a god send. Not only do I use it for taking notes but also for editing photos and drawing. There isn't one app that I had on my iPhone 4 that I don't have on my Note. Siri is great but I can also do most of what it does on my Note as well. A great feature is when I recieve a message and I have the bluetooth earpiece in it asks me if it wants it to read the message to you, you say yes then when its finished you have the choice to reponspond all hands free.

The phone is really a small computer. I have the HDMI cable for it and a keyboard plus mouse set. When I plug it into it's dock I literly have a sesktop computer. Especially now that I have VMWare remote desktop and Citrix on it. I cant tell the difference if I'm on a phone or real desktop computer, it's that good.

I have the white 32GB variant with a 64GB miniSD card in it. I have a lot of media on mine. There is also a app called Install Linux which allows you to install Debian or Ubuntu on the phone so you could install any program that is available on those platforms. Which is quite a lot. I run the full desktop version of Firefox and it's pretty quick. Also habe a LAMP server running on it which I use quite a bit when traveling.

The camera is one of the best in the industry defiantly on par with the iPhone 4s I actually think the sensor is faster. You also have full 1080p video recording and the ability to choose if you want to record on the miniSD card or not, great feature.

You will not be dissapointed, take the leap and not only will people constantly ask you questions about it but you'll wonder how you got along without one all this time.
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post #101 of 108
Hey Relic,

Guess you are asleep now, good luck with your surgery later!

If you feel up to it once you are recovered, download Atomic Web Browser. I think there is still a free Lite version, which is really just as good as the paid app. Has a lot of very cool features, such as full screen mode and a good ad block. I'd be interested to hear how responsive it is to tap+hold gestures, such as the command to Open in New/Background Tab. (Kinda laggy on my first generation iPad.) Also wondering if it supports Retina yet.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
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post #102 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

The point of the lawsuits is to enable Apple to develop a stranglehold on the tablet market before anyone else (including Samsung) can establish a foothold so that by the time Samsung et al do get their act together and all these lawsuits are settled Apple will already have a dominant position in the tablet market like they do in the MP3 market with the iPod.

Yeah, right... it's nothing to do with IP at all...


Quote:
Once you get 60% market share you can dictate terms to suppliers, get the best prices for components and buy up components in bulk thereby limiting the availability for competing products. Once established as the defacto product in the tablet space it will be very difficult for competitors to knock Apple off that position. So in that sense the lawsuits are largely a delaying tactic.

Only 60%? If we go by sales, rather than units shipped ("smooth"), then it's game over, man.
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post #103 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Since a few brought up Bluetooth.........

I just purchased the Plantronics M100 Bluetooth Headset and am a bit disappointed with the crackling, static and cutting out. I've paired it with my new iPhone 4S and use it while on quiet walks. It's fairly difficult to have a normal conversation while using it unless it's dead quiet outside. So I usually cup my ear to help it out. On sunny days, I much prefer to just hold out my phone so I can use the speakerphone.

How do the BT headphones work? I'd love to get rid of those long, ungainly cables.

As far as the iPad goes, I've used BT speakers but ended up preferring my wired ones as they are faster to get going and sound better.

Not impressed with BT in general, but maybe my mileage is varying on the downside...

The first thing I'm going to do when I receive my new iPad is fire up the WSJ and compare the text, assuming they are Retina Ready.

I wander around the house all day wearing a behind the head style Rocketfish branded blue tooth headphones. Listening to streaming talk radio and music they sound pretty good and last about 12 hours but suck for making a call on. I generally can go quite a distance (+30 feet) from my phone before they start acting up.

Tip-at short range your body can block the signal. If you have the phone on your left side and the ear piece in the right that might cause the static that you are experiencing. For example if you are sitting at a table and place the phone in front on the table the connection should be rock solid.

Most phone headsets do not work well for me because I apparently have a huge head, or at least bigger then average and with a deep voice people can never hear me clearly. I have tried many headsets and finally bought one of these.http://www.amazon.com/BlueParrott-Ge...1883965&sr=8-3 Yeah, they are huge and look dorky but people can actually hear me and the noise canceling is fantastic.

P.S. Have fun with your new iPad.
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post #104 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

If anyone has a specific app they want tested I don't mind buying it as I also got a iTunes gift card that came with the iPad. Plus I'm always looking for new cool apps. I will also be more then happy to take screen shots of your program and post them.

So to really some it up so far, the screen is really great rez wise not the best when it comes to color saturation as I mentioned before but defiantly good. The speed I think is where a lot of people are going to be the most happy with. Especially if your a gamer, I have never owned a device that is this fluid. The OS is exactly the same however I see a couple of more options in settings that I will explore next.

I live in Switzerland so I don't have LTE but the modem performance is still very good. When I was downloading Modern Combat I was getting close to 9mbs. The camera still sucks in low light even with my small bed lamp on. I'll have to wait till morning to play with that and the 1080p recording which is going to rock.

Is it worth the upgrade from iPad2 function wise no not really, you can do the same stuff on either machine. I can see you wanting to upgrade if you like gaming or just have money burning a hole in your pocket or in my case have very generous friends and family.

People you can't afford to upgrade I really don't think they'll miss much though.

That being said though my god that resolution is fantastic.

Do you have the TomTom software? Wondering how that would look on the that new screen.
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post #105 of 108
Off topic: Input your FedEx number to get more detailed info on your package than offered by FedEx page.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #106 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune View Post

That meeting was with Tim Cook after he became CEO in late last year, they decided to extend the deal to 2014 and among other things increase SSD's in the MBAs. Samsung has no reason to "run away" from the contracts. Why would it relinquish the prestige of having its arch-rival depend on it for critical components.

That's kinda my point; they wouldn't-for a number of reasons.
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post #107 of 108
Good luck buddy.
post #108 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

Was going for numbers that would meet the 10 hr on WiFi and 9 hours on LTE. Going all out obviously would draw more power. ... The IGZO LCD should reduce the need for backlight power on LCD screens, if it ever goes into production. But yeah, I think the trends towards bigger batteries is inevitable.

Displaymate says the 2012 iPad backlight uses 7 Watts at maximum brightness. The 2011 iPad uses 2.7 Watts. Taking the 7 Watts, and using 1 Watt for the A5X and 0.75 Watt for LTE, a 2012 iPad running at full bore: max brightness, A5X at 100% and LTE, 8.75 Watts of power over a 42.5 Watt battery translates to 4.8 hours. Not bad. At 50% brightness, it may well only be 3.5 Watts.

The biggest thing you can do with the 2012 iPad to extend usage time is to turn down the brightness. If you have it at 30% brightness, you may well have 11 to 14 hours of typical usage.

The extra warmth probably comes from the A5X. It can run hot and might be the reason why they changed from a POP to BGA package with RAM mounted on the other side. This may portend a future where the SoCs may need bigger heatsinks in future devices, more than the simple looking metal heat spreader on the A5X. ;(.
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