First look: Apple's new third-generation iPad with Retina display - Page 6

Originally Posted by Relic

Well he has a point, you can install Ubuntu on it for goodness sakes. Plus now with the ICS available it's actually a nice tablet for media consumption and surfing. Well that is if you don't live in iTunes for your media. You can plug it into any computer, let it be an Apple, Windows, Linux, Solaris or even another tablet it mounts itself as a drive. So you can simply drag your media files over without going threw the hassle of syncin with iTunes or any other annoying program. You can play every conceivable codec on it without having to buy any additinal apps. Which most that you buy still don't play every codec so you have to buy at least 3 to match the capabilties of ICS. I'm talking media here nothing else so don't get mad at me.

If I only had two hundred dollars in my pocket the Touchpad is a very good choice. A person would be very happy with it. Sure it's not a Apple but it's still a very worthy and versatile tablet. I do know one thing for a fact your average Touchpad user is a lot more computer savy then your average Apple user so you can't call them idiots.

Originally Posted by Relic

A little off subject here but do you think Apple is slowly converging iOS with OSX like what Microsoft is doing with their desktop and mobile OS. If so do you think that is a good thing? Will we see a smarter phone/tablet OS and a dumber desktop OS, well not dumber just more iOSified, so yea dumber.

Originally Posted by melgross

But, all I really communicate with is words. I don't really know from what, or whom, those words are flowing. So I can't assume I know you at all. I can assume you're a person, but I don't actually know that. You could be a Turing machine.

Originally Posted by Relic

A little off subject here but do you think Apple is slowly converging iOS with OSX like what Microsoft is doing with their desktop and mobile OS. If so do you think that is a good thing? Will we see a smarter phone/tablet OS and a dumber desktop OS, well not dumber just more iOSified, so yea dumber.

Originally Posted by Relic

A little off subject here but do you think Apple is slowly converging iOS with OSX like what Microsoft is doing with their desktop and mobile OS. If so do you think that is a good thing? Will we see a smarter phone/tablet OS and a dumber desktop OS, well not dumber just more iOSified, so yea dumber.

Originally Posted by melgross

I don't know if Dick does, but I sure do. Apple doesn't have to dumb anything down in order to do so. MS did positively the worst thing with Win8, but they had little choice.

Originally Posted by kiwigray

Does anyone know if you can have two applications running at the same time, side by side on the screen like in Android or do you still have to have things in layers.

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

That actually goes along with my screen name and the reason I choose it. Even if I am a Turing machine you have an idea of how I will likely respond just I have an idea on how you will respond. Knowing whether I'm short/tall, black/white, male/female do nothing to change the fact that my ideas are still presented.

Take Dan Brown and WIlliam Shakespeare. If you are familiar with some of their work but not all and I gave you work either that you were not familiar with I'm certain you could tell me which author penned the words.

Words are ideas and ideas leave a mental impression.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

I wish I'd answered the question as concisely as you did!

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

I suspect that several innovative site designs will emerge that will attract hits by delivering a better user experience by catering to the iPad retina display -- things like:

• bigger controls/slide-outs for easier navigation
  
• full screen mode for better user immersion
  
• larger/more readable text
  
• higher quality images
  
• higher quality video

Originally Posted by melgross

Well, you said something's that we're useful, and true. I just replied quickly. I agree with most of what you said.

But I could go further, and I'll do so in a few sentences.

I believe Apple will eventually combine the OS's. I've said this in a number of posts over the years. I think the OS will be a universal one, but one that will add features as the device needs, and can handle it. A smooth increase in power and feature set.

I believe the apps (or whatever we'll call them all), will also install as the hardware needs. So a word processor will allow reading and a few minor edits on an iPhone. Much more could be done on an iPad, and the full panapoly of features and power will be released on a more powerful machine. All the documents, of course, would reside in the cloud, and all edits would be moved to each device.

This should allow people to move from their iPhone, to their iPad, and finally to their notebook, iMac or Mac Pro without having to learn something completely different, just more features as one goes upwards. The opposite in the other direction of course.

Microsoft, on the other hand, is close to being screwed. I read in a few places that Win 8 may be a threat to OS X and iOS. I read that about every OS release that MS has made over the years, but here we are, with Windows sales slowing down, and OS X growing at a steady 25% a year.

MS needed to come out with Win8. They had to. They had no choice to do it any other way. Why? Because they see Apple with a significant marketshare in the iPhone. A marketshare that continues to grow. They see Android with a huge marketshare, though it's growth has slowed down.

They see the iPad selling like hotcakes, and that growth exploding for individuals, business, education, and even the military and government.

But MS has almost no presence in either area, and has no look at one in the near future. Metro has proven so far to be highly Unpopular, with no growth. Tablets? Feh!

So Metro seems to have no future. No one, from the Zune HD, to WP7 seems to want a device based on it. So what do they have to do? They have to get it out there so that people must see it, and use it. So therefor, Win8. They are hoping that once people need to upgrade to a new computer, they will find Win8 to be pleasing, and so will buy tablets and phones based on it.

It's kind of risky. So far, more people don't like Win8 than do, and that's in the Windows techie group. What will the average person think?

One problem is that they spent so much time on metro they didn't have enough to spend on the Win7 Desktop which is still in there. Some upgrades, but nothing all that major. Faster start-up, no Start button. Nothing much else. It's: two (clap), two (clap), two favors, I mean OS's in one! That's ok for gum, but I don't think it will chew, I mean fly, here.

Just a few sentences, yup!

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Good reasoning and things to consider!

As you say MS (Windows) future looks pretty bleak.


I believed that HP was in the catbird seat to span Windows on the desktop and ARM tablets -- with WebOS being the glue that ran on both.

They screwed that up immensely!


As I see it Google has a problem (at least for the next few years) in that it has no desktop apps and their (or anyone's) cloud apps are not, yet, robust enough... and their tablet solution is too fragmented -- so the enterprise is off limits.


It is certainly Apple's game to win... or lose.


I wonder if MS should say FTW and either/both:

1) Buy HP and build their own hardware * -- knowing that the Windows OEMs have no real choice but to stay as Windows OEMs

* People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware - Alan Kay -

2) Draw a line in the sand and say: the buck (legacy app support) stops here (Windows 7). Then go full bore adding skinnied-down desktop apps (and OS features) to Metro (their own apps & pay third parties for key apps). This could be [mostly] done by end of year 2012 and, IMO offers the best chance to salvage something from the current state of affairs.


If I were MS, I would get a re-implemented Office on iPad ASAP -- and on Androis as soon as practical -- these will be MS's customers... bringing them back into the Windows fold is left for another day.

Originally Posted by mstone

In the last several years we defined the default browser screen size to be 1024 x 768 (15" ~ 17") monitors. We therefore designed websites as 1000 px wide to allow for scroll bars.

Even with the iPhone4s retina, the regular sites still needed to be zoomed and panned to be legible. Now, with iPad the 3rd, we have the first device that actually has equivalent res to a cinema display but in a quarter of the physical screen real estate.

If we were to build a custom website for the new iPad we would design it 1500 px wide so that in the portrait view it was 100% to scale. Then you make the largest pictures that same width. The objective is to have the web page load at the optimal size on the iPad screen. But what do you do about the fonts? With all that extra space the fonts will seem rather small. Screen text is defined as either em, pt, % or px. Most designers have used px so that they have pixel perfect fit for their layouts. Unfortunately that attribute is not scaleable. For the new iPad I think we should convert to either em or percent so that the type scales to balance the layout size.

Since I am not sure how all of this is going to shake out, I figured the only way to know for sure is to get my hands on a new iPad and test it out. I wasn't going to worry about buying a new one until all the early adopters reported in but my curiosity got the better of me so I drove over to Fashion Island in Newport Beach, (normally I try to take the bus but it is really raining today). I walked into the Apple Store and requested a black AT&T 64 GB with a leather Smart Cover, paid and walked out in 15 minutes. No wait, no lines.

So I'm off to unbox. Peace Out!

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

I wish I'd answered the question as concisely as you did!

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

As to MS -- who can tell? MS has seemed to plant a seed with Windows Everywhere, that you will be able to run any app on any device -- be it Intel or ARM. That's just not true! There are legacy apps that run on Intel that will never be ported to ARM -- for lots of reasons (lost source code, developer no longer in business, limited market opportunity...).

Further, MS appears to be forcing the Metro interface onto the desktop in spite of the wishes of the developers and users (They may not be able to bypass it or disable it).

I believe that Windows Everywhere is a ruse to keep "Windows" in the hearts and minds of IT and enterprise until someone can deliver an Intel tablet that will allow desktop apps to run on a tablet...

But, that doesn't address MS's real problem: the REs -- All the MS apps, and major 3rd-party apps will need to be rethought, redesigned and rewritten to run with a full screen multitouch interface to be viable on a tablet (whether Intel or ARM).

So far, MS is two years behind Apple (and Android is just now delivering a usable tablet OS). MS doesn't really have a platform in place -- and won't for 1-2 more years (if ever).

By then, Will anybody care or even notice?


Here's a pretty good analysis of Windows 8 by Christian Cantrell -- a product manager at Adobe. (I have had personal dealings with Christian -- he's a good guy... honest, helpful and forthright!).

Windows 8: A Giant Misstep Forward

Originally Posted by melgross

MS is in a tough position. Whatever they do, they've got to do it fast. Doing things fast is not the MS way. Win8 is a holding pattern. Apple has the luxury of having a new OS update every year, slowly integrating things carefully, while users get used to them. MS had to jump in all at once.

They are also going to confuse people with their tablet strategy. A "real" x86 based Win 8 tablet, plus a not really Win8 ARM based Metro tablet. How will anyone be able to tell them apart in the store? Will the sales people really understand the differences? Supposedly, MS will now make the situation even more confusing, by having the Desktop in the Metro tablet as well, even though it won't really do much of anything. Not that it will do much in an x86 tablet either.

Oh, I can see people opting for a Metro tablet because it's cheaper, smaller and lighter, only to find it doesn't run Windows programs. That should be good for a laugh!

Originally Posted by Relic

Oh yea MS Windows 8 is a complete mess. I do like the Metro UI though. It makes a fantastic phone OS and it will probably a good tablet one as well but this mixture of classic windows and Metro just sucks. I mean choose one guys. One minute I'm in a fancy new UI and the next Im back in Windows 7, back and forth, back and forth excuse me I feel sick.

About this convergence that's going on between OSX and iOS, you guys don't feel just a little upset that iOS is locked up tighter then Fort Knox and this is possibly what the future will bring when there is only one OS. Basicly shut up and use it and no outside food alowd, meaning everything must be bought threw iTunes.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

iPad == one app at a time on the display -- though some apps can run in the background.

I didn't know that Android had a side-by-side capability for anything but widgets.

Windows 8 ARM has a "snap" implementation where two general apps can [potentially] run side-by-side... though the apps would, likely, need to be setup to dynamically reconfigure their display to fit in 1/2 the space. This could be a screen size fragmentation nightmare squared!

I do like, the concept, however... Apple could easily provide this capability and it would be fairly easy for developers because of a single display size (albeit 2 resolutions).

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Short answer: No!

I believe that iOS is locked up because it it had to be -- to control the limited resources on the original iPhone and preserve the user experience.

Over the 5 years, Apple has expanded the hardware and iOS resources -- allowing greater freedom to users and developers, alike.

I expect to see this trend continue!

Had Apple's initial approach been "anything goes" I do not believe they would have been anywhere near as successful.

It is easier (better) to start with strict control -- then gradually loosen the reins.

If you start with no control -- it is, likely, impossible to tighten the reins enough to gain effective control.

That's the iOS vs Android problem. Apple can loosen control in an instant -- Google may never be able to gain enough control to satisfy the needs of the sophisticated, non-tech user -- someone who just wants to use their device/apps for solutions.

As to iTunes -- I expect that it, too, will evolve (though it may retain the name). There is a lot to to be said for one-stop, one-click shopping -- secure, simple, easy, smooth, with recourse, implied guarantee. I think that Google, Amazon, MS are all attempting to evolve to a similar position.

Originally Posted by Relic

I think he is talking about Cornerstone. You are able to run three apps at once on the same screen. Very handy indeed, however you have to download a custom rom to use it right now and it's still in heavy development. They are working an a normal app that can be installed from Google market but it probably won't happen until the end of Q2. Cornerstone has spawned off a few more projects that should bare fruit in the near future as well. There are some great things coming to the Android world, I just love open source.

Check it for for your self;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MedNfbKVMSM

Not bad for such an inferior OS.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Interesting...

I am not knowledgeable enough to offer an opinion on a text solution...

I wonder if you could design a web site for both portrait and landscape and have it reconfigure itself based on how the user is using the device -- similar how mail on the iPad switches between side-by-side and overlay panels when you switch from landscape to portrait.

Originally Posted by Relic

No I really believe it's locked the way it is to discourage people putting their own media on it. They want you to go threw iTunes to get everything you need. If this wasn't the case then the user would have the ability to mount his own device on any computer as a drive or include a filemanager or have other codecs except the ones iTunes uses. There of course is nothing wrong with that but then lower the cost of the iPad. Apple makes enough money selling TV shows that someone could have easly recorded with their Tivo, Music that's free to listen to on Youtube with playlists and all and movies that are well I'll stop there. They don't need 50 percent margins, it's simple greed. We still keep ponying up our cash though for not so special incremental updates. I wonder what the percentage of iPad 3 buyers just want it because it's new and never do more then surf with it. It has to be huge, I have friends that have their iPads in the kichen drawer where it stays 95 percent of the time untill its time to look up the number of a pizza joint.

Oh I'm sorry for that rant guys I'm fussy because Im in pain and Im stuck here in this lousy hospital bed. I have to use the bathroom and it envolves two people helping me. Don't get sick it sucks.

Originally Posted by Relic

Oh yea MS Windows 8 is a complete mess. I do like the Metro UI though. It makes a fantastic phone OS and it will probably a good tablet one as well but this mixture of classic windows and Metro just sucks. I mean choose one guys. One minute I'm in a fancy new UI and the next Im back in Windows 7, back and forth, back and forth excuse me I feel sick.

About this convergence that's going on between OSX and iOS, you guys don't feel just a little upset that iOS is locked up tighter then Fort Knox and this is possibly what the future will bring when there is only one OS. Basicly shut up and use it and no outside food alowd, meaning everything must be bought threw iTunes.

Originally Posted by timgriff84

I think a lot of people are being overly harsh on Microsoft. I just bought a new iPad but even being the huge apple fan that I am, I think win 8 is a better tablet design for an os. Apple will obviously and already have copied a lot of the ideas they've come up with, but at this point in time it's still better.

The biggest problem Microsoft have is although metro is great for a tablet and even great for a home use laptop, it's awful for business. Full screen apps are awful for doing actual work, and thats why you still have the desktop, task bar, snap and all the other stuff that make windows great for working. Having 2 os's in 1 though is not user friendly and creates confusion, but at the same time having 2 separate os's is also confusing, people will want to know which one is the future and ignore the other.

So that's my opinion, MS have created the ideal ui for students and other home users to be able to Skype someone while watching Netflix, go on the web etc with the split pane ui. Or just do things full screen without os x's stupid button that is way to close to a hot corner action. And they also have windows 7 which has features I miss every time I use os x for working. But they are at complete opposites and will only sell if there in 1 product. I think people will love the tablets and hate the desktop (at work)

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

I agree -- MS: either get in the pool or get out, Now!

The people that MS's current tablet plans won't fool is IT and enterprise. From what I read, the majority of enterprises are moving the "meat" of their applications to the iPad. At some point, what they currently do on the desktop will diminish and migrate to the back room, like Payroll, where it can [eventually] be outsourced to someone like ADP.

I do believe that "enterprise" will retain their database, but that, likely will be in the back room and percolate up to the cloud then trickle back down to the back room -- providing a balance between access anywhere and access speed. MS could do this as well as or better than anyone.


God... I do enjoy exercising these atrophying brain cells

Originally Posted by melgross

There's a lot of problems with Metro. For example, after some time of buying apps, we found that we were having too many screens of them. We called for folders for organizational purposes. Because the OS is app centric, that wasn't a problem for Apple, and they complied with our requests (so much for them never listening!). But Metro isn't app centric, it's organized around functions. The problem with that is as you obtain more apps, you have to scroll. There is no way that it can accept folders without hiding those functions. That goes against the entire concept of what they're doing.

So if they do that, they will have to change the OS so that it works more like Android and iOS. If they do that, then what's the point of buying it?

Right now, there is no way to avoid scrolling down lists either. With iOS and Android, you can have those small letters on the right side you can tap. Nothing like that in WP7. We can also type a few letters, but often that's even more work. Depends on the length of the list.

Also, when you have open apps in Metro, you have to swipe screen after screen to see which ones are open. There's no way to use a gesture as we can in iOs to pull up a list on the bottom.

There are a lot of "gotcha's" like that. They make using it wasteful of time and effort. On a phone, or like for the Zune HD for which it was first designed, it's ok. Tiny screen, low resolution; sure it works ok for that. But it doesn't take advantage of large real estate. You don't see much more on a 27" monitor than on a 10" tablet. And if you did, all those tiles would get confusing. Just a mass of boxes in different bright colors. I think it's a big mistake.

Originally Posted by timgriff84

Got my new iPad yesterday. FirsT impressions were its heavier than the iPad 2 and definitely bigger. The screen is much nicer though, although some apps do need updating. I downloaded one that only displayed in a quarter of the screen, get the feeling they haven't followed apples guide on how to program and did everything in pixels!

Having used a wp7 phone for the last year there's a few things about ios that I'm finding really annoying. Overall love the pad but I hope apple copy a few more things off MS.

1. They keyboard is stupid! Why do I have to click a button to close it rather than click outside the keyboard. Why does it hardly ever autocomplete words or only big words and why when it's a keyboard on a screen can it not change the letters between upper and lower case.

2. The app store is awful. I had an iPhone before WP7 and in the time the app store has got worse. Rather then paid and free apps there is now paid, free apps that are actually demos of paid apps, free apps that aren't actually free, instead you pay in the app and free apps. On wp7 essentially every paid app has a trial version built into the paid app, so you download the paid one for free to try and then pay if you want to keep it. Simple concept, on ios though I have to find a free version of a paid app to see if it's any good. This has also meant free isn't free. On wp7 free apps are free as trials are built into the paid version, in ios free is mostly surprise cost once downloaded, ultimate disappointment and huge time wasted finding apps.

3. Double tapping the home button to switch open apps. That's really not user friendly.

Other than that it's great and absolutely loving it. But seriously apple sort the app store out. I want decent apps without ads. I don't care about paying for apps, but I'm not going to spend £4 on 6 different rss readers to find out which is the best. Let me try 6 different rss readers for free and then I'll happily pay £10 for the good one.

Originally Posted by Relic

I think he is talking about Cornerstone. You are able to run three apps at once on the same screen. Very handy indeed, however you have to download a custom rom to use it right now and it's still in heavy development. They are working an a normal app that can be installed from Google market but it probably won't happen until the end of Q2. Cornerstone has spawned off a few more projects that should bare fruit in the near future as well. There are some great things coming to the Android world, I just love open source.

Check it for for your self;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MedNfbKVMSM

Not bad for such an inferior OS.

Originally Posted by melgross

I think MS should concentrate on serving business, which is something they really do well. As a consumer brand they've never done well. The XBox lost them an estimated $7.5 billion, which they will never make up. Bing and other web initiatives are costing them billions a year, which they will never make a profit on. And people bought DOS and Windows machines because they thought they had to. They know better now.

MS should get used to the idea that going forward they will be a stronger but smaller company if they concentrate on what they do best rather than getting involved in what they can't hope to be competitive in. At least, not in a big way.

Originally Posted by Relic

No I really believe it's locked the way it is to discourage people putting their own media on it. They want you to go threw iTunes to get everything you need. If this wasn't the case then the user would have the ability to mount his own device on any computer as a drive or include a filemanager or have other codecs except the ones iTunes uses. There of course is nothing wrong with that but then lower the cost of the iPad. Apple makes enough money selling TV shows that someone could have easly recorded with their Tivo, Music that's free to listen to on Youtube with playlists and all and movies that are well I'll stop there. They don't need 50 percent margins, it's simple greed. We still keep ponying up our cash though for not so special incremental updates. I wonder what the percentage of iPad 3 buyers just want it because it's new and never do more then surf with it. It has to be huge, I have friends that have their iPads in the kichen drawer where it stays 95 percent of the time untill its time to look up the number of a pizza joint.

Oh I'm sorry for that rant guys I'm fussy because Im in pain and Im stuck here in this lousy hospital bed. I have to use the bathroom and it envolves two people helping me. Don't get sick it sucks.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

I remember that!

I've never used Metro -- but I saw a video of an early demo...

Everything seemed to work smoothly until you installed 30 or so apps -- then the interface degraded to a few tiles for the major apps and a really basic scrollable list to access all the others (in some order).

That just can't be the way it is now... they wouldn't try to force that on a desktop user used to a file system... would they?

Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.

I have my iPad and I like it!!!

...and an ATV.

Down boy...down...

Lemon Bon Bon.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Here's an interesting site:

http://labs.chitika.com/ipad/

When I first saw this yesterday, the new iPad figures were about 0.08% -- now they are 4.065%.

If there are, say, 50 million iPads 1 & 2... and 50% are in the US -- that's 25 million iPads 1 & 2 in the US.

That would mean that ~= 1 million new iPads are in use in the US.

Hmmm...

Early-to-mid 1960s. The Data Cell was IBM's first direct-access mass storage device. The design team was managed by IBM's Alan F. Shugart, who also was involved in the design of the first modern hard disk drive with air-bearing heads and later went on to found Shugart Associates in 1973 (which pioneered the floppy diskette) and Seagate Technology in 1979. (Contrary to the rumor that the Data Cell was designed as a thesis project by an MIT engineering student whose object was a storage system using every known technology... hydraulics, pneumatics, magnetics, springs, optics, ....) The 2321 housed up to ten removable and interchangeable data cells. Each data cell contained 200 magnetic strips, which were the basic recording media. The total storage capacity was 400 million bytes or 800 million decimal digits. Up to eight 2321s could be attached to the IBM 2841 control unit, allowing an overall capacity of over 3GB. Reportedly the Data Cell required 23 liters of motor oil.

Average access times for selection of a strip range from 175 to 600 milliseconds; average rotational delay one a strip is on the drum is 25 milliseconds; access time to another cylinder averages 95 milliseconds.