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post #41 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

In defense of Samsung??

There is no "defense of Samsung" possible, or any defense of anyone else who had every opportunity to change the game in 2007, and then again in 2010, but instead ended up trying to ape Apple.

Where was Samsung's big January 2010 tablet unveiling? You know, the one where it would be the Samsung CEO sitting comfortably in that easy-chair giving the keynote and astounding the tech world. Or Samsung's opportunity in 2007 to say via their CEO in a landmark keynote "It's an iPod (well, not for Sammy), a phone, and an internet communicator . . . an iPod, a phone, and internet communicator . . ."

What happened? All these game-changers, after which competing devices all began to look like them, (with some people not even being able to tell them apart: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/14/...axy-tab-apart/) have Apple logos on the back.

Yea Samsungs lawyer screwed that up, the Galaxy Tabs aspect ratio is different form the iPad and that should've been evident in picking it out. HW hasn't been Samsungs strong suit for awhile but lots of what they've done in other areas can be argued has helped Apple build excellent devices.
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post #42 of 112
They should sell it for a loss like amazon, that's a brilliant business model...
post #43 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune View Post


post #44 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

The lowest gross margin assuming the numbers are correct is 37% (for the new iPad 16 GB WiFi). Still very healthy. And as stated already, these costs will rapidly decrease

And of course, all the content purchases are not included... Which is Amazon's sole attempt of making any profit on the Fire. I have a hard time believing the average content sales on the Fire are higher than the average iPad

They want you to buy the $80 a month subscription plan so you can make it rain on them every month on schedule.
post #45 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

They want you to buy the $80 a month subscription plan so you can make it rain on them every month on schedule.

If you're referring to Amazon Prime then you're mistaken, its $79 a year.

Considering all you get its a good deal.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/prime/ref=a...amazon%20prime
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post #46 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

In defense of Samsung??

There is no "defense of Samsung" possible, or any defense of anyone else who had every opportunity to change the game in 2007, and then again in 2010, but instead ended up trying to ape Apple.

Where was Samsung's big January 2010 tablet unveiling? You know, the one where it would be the Samsung CEO sitting comfortably in that easy-chair giving the keynote and astounding the tech world. Or Samsung's opportunity in 2007 to say via their CEO in a landmark keynote "It's an iPod (well, not for Sammy), a phone, and an internet communicator . . . an iPod, a phone, and internet communicator . . ."

What happened? All these game-changers, after which competing devices all began to look like them, (with some people not even being able to tell them apart: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/14/...axy-tab-apart/) have Apple logos on the back.

I agree. Where was apple when motorolla INVENTED THE CELL PHONE? Where was apple when in 1997 the world first MP3 player was shipped?

Point is....how about apple actually innovate and create something NEVER SEEN BEFORE rather than take something thats always been around and put a spit and polish on it?

Quit acting like apple invented the cellphone or the rectangle, was always around.

Disclaimer: Not saying the idevices are bad products, they are actually great, i still use my 4th gen ipod nano to this day. Just saying lets not get carried away.
post #47 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

I agree. Where was apple when motorolla INVENTED THE CELL PHONE? Where was apple when in 1997 the world first MP3 player was shipped?

Point is....how about apple actually innovate and create something NEVER SEEN BEFORE rather than take something thats always been around and put a spit and polish on it?

Quit acting like apple invented the cellphone or the rectangle, was always around.

Disclaimer: Not saying the idevices are bad products, they are actually great, i still use my 4th gen ipod nano to this day. Just saying lets not get carried away.

Look up 'straw man argument'.

No one ever claimed that Apple invented the cell phone or MP3 player.

If you ever have an intelligent argument, feel free to let us know.
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post #48 of 112
Lower margins is the penalty you pay when you bring new tech to the market. As production tech improves and component prices drop, the margins will self correct. That is the advantage of high volume purchasing.
post #49 of 112
Quote:
"Although it was not plainly demarcated, the battery cell package is thought to be a Samsung product as well, which brings the company's share of BOM to nearly 50 percent."

So much for boycotting Samsung in favor of buying Apple products. Samsung makes big bucks from every iPad purchased. Given the difference in volume, they likely make more, in absolute terms, form iPad sales than they do from their Samsung branded tablets.
post #50 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Look up 'straw man argument'.

No one ever claimed that Apple invented the cell phone or MP3 player.

If you ever have an intelligent argument, feel free to let us know.

He's correct in some ways. Apple didn't invent the touchscreen phone nor the tablet. What Apple excels in is taking current technology and ideas and putting them together in a new way plus pairing it with great software. Apple makes things streamlined and sexy looking plus easy to use which is something that's obviously not easily done.
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post #51 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Is iSuppli privy to what Apple pays for components? With Apple's massive economy of scale, there's no telling what they are paying for components.

I was thinking the same thing. But likely they can determine the delta between the new parts and the old, leaving the "lower margin" conclusion intact, even if the exact number is, at best, suspect.
post #52 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

He's correct in some ways. Apple didn't invent the touchscreen phone nor the tablet. What Apple excels in is taking current technology and ideas and putting them together in a new way plus pairing it with great software. Apple makes things streamlined and sexy looking plus easy to use which is something that's obviously not easily done.

Thank yu. exactly what i was trying to say.

On the other hand you have companies like motorolla and Samsung who excl at making the backbone for things to work. Hence their huge number of FRAND patents. Maybe if they spend less time on researching how to make cellphones talk better to each other, and make 3g better and 4g better and make further the technology of organic LEDs and so on/ Maybe if they spend less time on that stuff and focus on design, they may be able to compete.
post #53 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

The lowest gross margin assuming the numbers are correct is 37% (for the new iPad 16 GB WiFi). Still very healthy. And as stated already, these costs will rapidly decrease

And of course, all the content purchases are not included... Which is Amazon's sole attempt of making any profit on the Fire. I have a hard time believing the average content sales on the Fire are higher than the average iPad

Content sales? Probably.

But Amazon sells much more than digital content with the Fire, and so the estimate is not very well-grounded. Amazon sells pretty much everything, and the Fire is designed as a portal to their store (much like the iPad).

Apple claims it makes almost no profit from App sales and other content, or is that old information which has now changed?
post #54 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

So does this mean the "Apple tax" my guy friends are telling me I'm paying are false?

Nope. It doesn't tell you that. At most, it tells you that Apple makes a lower margin on the iPad than it used to at the launch of the iPad 2.
post #55 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It won't placate the "Apple is greedy" trolls.

Especially all the ones that need to buy a new AV adapter for their iPad.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD098

$39 bucks is pushing it. But when you consider that the old one works just fine, but now requires you to dismiss a useless Error message, then "greedy" might not be too far off.
post #56 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

But when you consider that the old one works just fine, but now requires you to dismiss a useless Error message, then "greedy" might not be too far off.

So you've reasoned that because Apple is being greedy by using the same same dock connector another year note that this is it's 10 year of use when they could have completely altered it year after year so that you would never see an error message you can ignore because they could make it so it would never plug in. Brilliant¡

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post #57 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

He's correct in some ways. Apple didn't invent the touchscreen phone nor the tablet. What Apple excels in is taking current technology and ideas and putting them together in a new way plus pairing it with great software. Apple makes things streamlined and sexy looking plus easy to use which is something that's obviously not easily done.

That's true, but he's not the least bit correct. He claimed that Apple fans claimed that Apple invented the cell phone and MP3 player. No one ever claimed that, so it's a straw man argument.
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post #58 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So you've reasoned that because Apple is being greedy by using the same same dock connector another year note that this is it's 10 year of use when they could have completely altered it year after year so that you would never see an error message you can ignore because they could make it so it would never plug in. Brilliant¡

Nope. Wrong again.

Here's my reasoning:

No dock connector is really necessary. Others add standard ports.

The AV connector is priced at 39 bucks, while comparable cables are much cheaper.

There seems to be no physical need for existing owners to use the new overpriced connector, except that Apple screwed something to make it necessary.

Understand? Or do I have to go on and on once again? Do I need to draw a picture or something?
post #59 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

He's correct in some ways. Apple didn't invent the touchscreen phone nor the tablet. What Apple excels in is taking current technology and ideas and putting them together in a new way plus pairing it with great software. Apple makes things streamlined and sexy looking plus easy to use which is something that's obviously not easily done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Nope. Wrong again.

Here's my reasoning:

No dock connector is really necessary. Others add standard ports.

The AV connector is priced at 39 bucks, while comparable cables are much cheaper.

There seems to be no physical need for existing owners to use the new overpriced connector, except that Apple screwed something to make it necessary.

Understand? Or do I have to go on and on once again? Do I need to draw a picture or something?

Which standard port that was available 10 years ago would do all the same things as the 30 pin connector?
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post #60 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Which standard port that was available 10 years ago would do all the same things as the 30 pin connector?

None. What does the AV connector do today that no standard port will do?
post #61 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

I agree. Where was apple when motorolla INVENTED THE CELL PHONE? Where was apple when in 1997 the world first MP3 player was shipped?

Point is....how about apple actually innovate and create something NEVER SEEN BEFORE rather than take something thats always been around and put a spit and polish on it?

Quit acting like apple invented the cellphone or the rectangle, was always around.

Disclaimer: Not saying the idevices are bad products, they are actually great, i still use my 4th gen ipod nano to this day. Just saying lets not get carried away.

I think you need to understand the difference between invention and innovation.
post #62 of 112
The cost of the ipad may have gone up but i expect with a more powerful device comes sales via the apple stores.

Also a device that is this good will give problem for competitors - if apple's margins go down so do there competitors and there margin are low enough already.

This device could really swing for apple in the corp business world.
post #63 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I think you need to understand the difference between invention and innovation.

Did you finish reading his whole comment? He's mocking Apple, as he always does.

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post #64 of 112
in the next earnings release. If they fall significantly, then we will know that some of the costs in this chart are true. Especially so, if revenues are up x% but earnings don't keep pace.
post #65 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Did you finish reading his whole comment? He's mocking Apple, as he always does.

Oh I know, it's just a common misconception that seems to run rife in all tech blogs and forums.
post #66 of 112
Umm That's speculation since they really don't know how much Apple's pays for parts with their economy of scale. The article comes off as if they know but I doubt that very seriously.
post #67 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

None. What does the AV connector do today that no standard port will do?

So your point is that you think Apple is wrong for combining USB, HDMI, and power all into a single port so they could keep the device thin?

You should really stop with the inane Apple-bashing long enough to join the rest of us in the real world.
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post #68 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

This just proves how totally clueless certain people are. You know exactly who I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who constantly whine and moan about there only being incremental updates. These people with their brilliant minds wouldn't even be able to run a lemonade stand, let alone running a tech company or deciding what sort of features are relevant for inclusion on a tablet.

The cost to make the iPad has nothing to do whether or not it is an incremental update. The final product, compared to the product it replaces determines that rather arbitrary designation.

-kpluck

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post #69 of 112
A fair number of people celebrating this report are amongst those arguing that the suggested $70 premium on the iPad, reported Erroneously here on AI, was a good thing. ISuppli never claim to guess the component costs in volume, but generally know their stuff.
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post #70 of 112
16$, 32$ and 64$ more dollars per device would have bumped the storage to 32, 64 and 128gbs respectively, and since more storage would give people a higher insentive to buy more content from apple, it's arguable they would be making this money back from the content anyway.

They are being dishonest here though. The ipad might have the same price points, but storages of 16 and 32gbs are not viable anymore given the maturity and posibilities of the platform, as well as the ever increasing content and size of content provided by apple itself, and the demands on storage by the retina display. They are essentially then pushing most people to buy the high end model(s) where their profit margin is also the highest if they want a device with decent life span and usage possibilities. I am very disapointed with them for doing this, and like I said it's a shame, they would have still kept the same margins and made it up on content sales anyway...

And I also feel strategically it's going to come back and bite them in the ass when in a couple of months time androids with retinas from samsung with sd card slots are going to be popping up and they are left with plenty of embittered customers who own ipads otherwise great but crippled in capabilities by their limited storage. They are abusing their dominant position in the market here and being careless and greedy. As much as I admire them for coming up with the ipad and finally revolutionazing the tablet to what it is right now, and as much as I dislike both google and samsung, I will be happy when (it's not an if for me, it's when) they get what's coming to them for crippling this generation of ipad in terms of storage.
post #71 of 112
In getting my new iPad I didn't restore from iTunes, iused a clean iPad and I use the purchased tab to download what I use and ignored the rest. The cloud makes local storage less important.
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post #72 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

16$, 32$ and 64$ more dollars per device would have bumped the storage to 32, 64 and 128gbs respectively, and since more storage would give people a higher insentive to buy more content from apple, it's arguable they would be making this money back from the content anyway.

They are being dishonest here though. The ipad might have the same price points, but storages of 16 and 32gbs are not viable anymore given the maturity and posibilities of the platform, as well as the ever increasing content and size of content provided by apple itself, and the demands on storage by the retina display. They are essentially then pushing most people to buy the high end model(s) where their profit margin is also the highest if they want a device with decent life span and usage possibilities. I am very disapointed with them for doing this, and like I said it's a shame, they would have still kept the same margins and made it up on content sales anyway...

And I also feel strategically it's going to come back and bite them in the ass when in a couple of months time androids with retinas from samsung with sd card slots are going to be popping up and they are left with plenty of embittered customers who own ipads otherwise great but crippled in capabilities by their limited storage. They are abusing their dominant position in the market here and being careless and greedy. As much as I admire them for coming up with the ipad and finally revolutionazing the tablet to what it is right now, and as much as I dislike both google and samsung, I will be happy when (it's not an if for me, it's when) they get what's coming to them for crippling this generation of ipad in terms of storage.

I thought the same thing, Others might be late to the game but they are going to play. Asus will be first in releasing their Infinity model next month with a S4 Kait CPU, a 1080p resolution and 64GB of ram, however they also have a miniSD that supports another 64GB and with the SD Card in the Keyboard base you can can have an additional 64GB for a total of 196GB with keyboard and 128GB without. Samsung will be releasing a tablet with their new quad core CPU and quad core GPU, a comparable rez most likely 16.9 and using their fantastic SAMOLED technology, 8MP camera, MiniSD, so 128GB there. Then of course the horde of Windows 8 tablets and those will most defiantly will have large drives were talking Windows here and miniSD cards most likely there but we will have to wait to see.
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post #73 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

I agree. Where was apple when motorolla INVENTED THE CELL PHONE? Where was apple when in 1997 the world first MP3 player was shipped?

Um, what?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Point is....how about apple actually innovate and create something NEVER SEEN BEFORE rather than take something thats always been around and put a spit and polish on it?

Quit acting like apple invented the cellphone or the rectangle, was always around.

No. The only person making these claims is you and the "Apple didn't invent the black rectangle" voices on these forums. Has it ever occurred to you (and it hasn't, based on what you wrote) that what the world wanted was a better mouse trap, or what you blithely dismiss as "spit and polish"? I mean, who'd pay for an iPhone when you can get a Blackberry or Palm Treo or crashy Windows Mobile 6 PDA phone (with stylus input, but let's all pretend the Galaxy Note invented that)? Even all of those smartphones are just spit and polish on basic analog mobiles. According to you, we shouldn't praise spit and polish; what's really important is who invented the first, primitive mobile phones OUT OF THIN AIR. And you credit Motorola for creating something NEVER SEEN BEFORE (to use your term), because all mobile phone systems pre-dating Moto's never existed.

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post #74 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I thought the same thing, Others might be late to the game but they are going to play. Asus will be first in releasing their Infinity model next month with a S4 Kait CPU, a 1080p resolution and 64GB of ram, however they also have a miniSD that supports another 64GB and with the SD Card in the Keyboard base you can can have an additional 64GB for a total of 196GB with keyboard and 128GB without. Samsung will be releasing a tablet with their new quad core CPU and quad core GPU, a comparable rez most likely 16.9 and using their fantastic SAMOLED technology, 8MP camera, MiniSD, so 128GB there. Then of course the horde of Windows 8 tablets and those will most defiantly will have large drives were talking Windows here and miniSD cards most likely there but we will have to wait to see.

All of that "extra" space an iPad user has on iTunes
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post #75 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

In getting my new iPad I didn't restore from iTunes, iused a clean iPad and I use the purchased tab to download what I use and ignored the rest. The cloud makes local storage less important.

It makes it less important to a certain extent, you can't cloud away 1.5 gb games and textbooks, or a minimal 50% increase in the combined storage for apps due to retina, you can't also cloud away much larger files for magazine subscriptions again due to the retina display, or 1080p movies from the iTunes stores. You can't also expect an iPad to store just a couple of movies, a couple of reference textbooks for uni/work, a few apps and a couple of games and then keep swapping on and off the cloud.

In any case we ll see how this plays out in the future which is the ultimate (although certainly not always fair or impartial) judge of people's and companies choices. I firmly believe apple have chosen unwisely and greedily here to save up a few $ per device when they already have more than adequate margins, volume in sales, and content to sell and recoup the extra $ for more storage. They have also chosen unwisely because one of their arch competitors is also one of their prime hardware manufacturers.

They carved the tablet market for themselves, they priced the iPad so competitively that no one managed to undercut them. They should have given everyone the coup de grace here by bumping the storages up considerably and completely dominating the tablet market. If people bite the bullet and get 16gb iPads and realise after a short while that storage is ridiculously low for their usage, and they can't even sell their device cause other people have realised this too, you bet apple are going to have a lot of embittered customers who are going to jump on the next tablet with an sd card around the corner and consider it the next best thing to sliced bread for giving them this flexibility. Then apple will have needlessly vindicated all those idiots blathering on about apple being restrictive to choice.
post #76 of 112
But the 16GB will always sell as it is a steal. My feeling is that in a retina world the iPad will always have to be managed, I bet in a future OS Apple does that for you with apps, something like Kindle which deletes locally behind your back, and hardly distinguishes between apps on the device and elsewhere . In the apple case power users can turn that off for manual use. I see them increasing the default iCloud storage and requiring magazines to store there, or use their own storage for back issues, or face a ban.
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post #77 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I thought the same thing, Others might be late to the game but they are going to play. Asus will be first in releasing their Infinity model next month with a S4 Kait CPU, a 1080p resolution and 64GB of ram, however they also have a miniSD that supports another 64GB and with the SD Card in the Keyboard base you can can have an additional 64GB for a total of 196GB with keyboard and 128GB without. Samsung will be releasing a tablet with their new quad core CPU and quad core GPU, a comparable rez most likely 16.9 and using their fantastic SAMOLED technology, 8MP camera, MiniSD, so 128GB there. Then of course the horde of Windows 8 tablets and those will most defiantly will have large drives were talking Windows here and miniSD cards most likely there but we will have to wait to see.

Apple have very concrete advantages in their ecosystem, software and hardware integration, manufacturing skills, physical stores, and content via the app and iTunes store. They also have a vey strong brand name and their tablet platform has by now far more people who know how to use it. But they are wrong in thinking that they are invincible and the only way is up for them. If google want to brand and aggressively market a Samsung based tablet product they can easily get a 20% share off of apple and very quickly. Amazon managed to get market share in a few months time. As you correctly point out others are going to play too, of apple manages to lose again in the market they pretty much created as they did with the personal computer it will be another case of history repeating itself, and history has a tendency to do just that.
post #78 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

But the 16GB will always sell as it is a steal. My feeling is that in a retina world the iPad will always have to be managed, I bet in a future OS Apple does that for you with apps, something like Kindle which deletes locally behind your back, and hardly distinguishes between apps on the device and elsewhere . In the apple case power users can turn that off for manual use. I see them increasing the default iCloud storage and requiring magazines to store there, or use their own storage for back issues, or face a ban.

All these features I am sure would help a lot, let's see how apple plays it, because the alternative of manualy manage content off and on the device is not viable.
post #79 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

No, but everything is an estimate.

It's likely the estimates are wrong, because a plain old bill of materials cannot reflect the actual volume purchasing power or specially negotiated agreements between Apple and their suppliers.

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post #80 of 112
If Apples profit share of the global cellphone market is around 75% with only 9% market share by units, you gotta think that the profit share in the tablet market is close to 100% considering that Amazon is selling the Kindle Fire at a loss and many other other tablet makers have been blowing out their tablets at a loss as well (HP TouchPad, RIM PlayBook, etc.). Samsung itself has also said that it isn't doing well with the tablets.

Apple could afford to absorb the higher cost on this one although I think Apple is probably getting a better deal than what's listed on this external BOM. Apple seems set on maintaining these price points. The iPad pricing structure seems like an impregnable wall for the competition. It's still an "uphill" battle for the iPhone and Mac businesses in terms of market share but the iPad business is looking more like defending the fort from the mountaintop - kind of like what the iPod business has been over the past decade.
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