First wave of Windows 8 tablets rumored to arrive in October - Page 2

When I saw the new metro look the first time on a smartphon, I thought who knows maybe this might get some traction.
But seeing this:


made me think OMG what the hell are they thinking at Redmond Wash. Of course if somebody is completely sworn into anything Microsoft, they will try to make this very confusing start screen look like the ultimate solution. Heaven help us all, because in the end many of us will have to deal one way or the other with this OS.

... and dead by November.

I hate to tell you, that you will have to wait a couple of years to see full fledged applications for the tablet version of W.. 8.
The developers will need time.
And see how long it takes for iOS devices with a user base getting bigger than any other OS.
Finally for the iPad there are some dozens of pro-/ prosumer apps, but it took almost 2 years.

You would think MSFT would pursue that, but it may have not made sense to their operations to actually manufacture hardware. I'm not sure they even make a mouse anymore.

Windows 8 will have far more impact on Android than on iOS. Android developers are already losing faith due to the fragmentation problems:

http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/app...070349913.html

That truly was entertaining to read.

Thanks for the links!!

I want to like the new Start screen. The idea of a screen covered in widgets seems interesting to me. Yet, it's so effing ugly. Aesthetically, it just screams Fisher-Price, with a chaotic pile of colored blocks. Again, just considering the functionality, Live Tiles seem pretty cool, but they do offend my sense of style. Can I get used to it, probably.

Gestures on the other hand are entirely new to me. Swiping from an off-screen area to an on-screen area at specific places for specific actions seems weird. Something that may become second-nature on a tablet, may be a pain with keyboard and mouse. Only time will tell how hard it will be to make them second nature.

How many people actually use many more apps than Office? And they've said Office will be availiable.


Windows Phone 7 has been gaining apps at an extreamly fast rate, despite the fact there selling hardly any phone. How many more apps do you think people will write for an OS that's installed on basically every PC sold?


What makes you think Apple want Win8 to fail? Apple arn't ever going to be able to have the entire tablet market so do you think they want Android as a competitor given to hardware manufacturers for free, or Win8 that will reduce the competitons margins?

if ever there was a most accurate description of

"LISTICK ON A PIG"

TILES on top of Windows is it

oh and doesn't x86 running on a tablet need a fan!

NO! Windows 7 "sort of works", Windows 8 DOES NOT WORK.

Have been using Toshiba M205 Win XP Tablet with Wacom digitizer since early 2004.
Recently bought a Samsung Series 7 Slate, came with Win7 Pro.
Yesterday I installed Win 8. Smooth install, about one and half hour to install.
Then the nightmare started.

I use Journal and the pen of course extensively on Toshiba M205.
Windows 8 does not have any palm rejection while in Journal. Really?
And with Win 7 the finger touch experience cause me to completely turn that feature off.
The screen software keyboard in Win 8 can not be re-sized. Really? On a screen that is only 768 pixel high? Really?
(Toshiba M205 has 1400 x 1050 screen)
I only used Win 8 for about three hours, and the experience so far is not good.
I can't see why so many are looking forward to Windows 8.

Sent from my iPad 1

This is no different than the Launchpad in Lion. Sure you start in it as default but if you choose to remain 100% in desktop between apps starts, feel free. But it has the plus of having lives tiles such, so think of it as OS X Dashboard + Launchpad in one scrolling screen (no pages like Launchpad). You can pin apps to your taskbar, just like you do in Windows 7 or how you pin things to quick launch or the start menu in XP, Vista.

Referencing other people about productivity, yes you can be productive on a tablet. Metro will make that easier. Why are we still using a UI (in Windows) that launched in 1995. Yes not all apps will be there, hence the desktop mode and x86. I have a desktop which is more suited for Visual Studio for the moment hence I am more apt to get ARM. There are apps already like WordPress.com in the Consumer Preview. I think just like the iPad you will get Photoshop Lite and other tools, I'm sure companies are working on it as we speak. The other plus is the sync of app data and settings between my eventual tablet and desktop. Sorta like iCloud but with say password saves in the browser or where I am in Cut The Rope.

About drag and drop. I did not try that and I'm in Lion as we speak and can't reboot as in the middle of a project. But Windows 8 does have a central share mechanism that all apps can tap into. Each app will tell what it can share and what it can accept. So I could view pictures in a flicker app and click share on a picture and then select an app that accepts pictures such as an email app.

I do find all this very similar to the reservations about the changes to OS X Lion. Like it or not, both Apple and Microsoft are evolving. I also find Multitasking in tablet to be relevant. I see typical usage as say browsing the web and having an IM app pinned to one side.

And there was one day a computing without the mouse, watch as touch comes everywhere even to the desktop. And don't think about you stretching to touch the screen, let the screen come to you and fold flat on your desk when you need it. This demo product at CES was absolutely amazing.

Window 8 is an absolute nerve racking experience. Here you have a brand new interface that is for the most part a pretty neat UI. I own a Nokia Lumia 800 that I got for free when I extended my contract. So I quickly became a fan of Metro. Regardless of the outlash that will certainly follow this post I think it's one of best mobile OS's that I have seen in a long time.

So when MS released a Consumer Preview I immediatly installed it on my old but still powerfull Lenovo X61 Tablet. The install process was quick and without problems, Windows 8 installed all the drivers properly including Lenovos Finger Scanner. After bootup I was greeted with a really nice UI.

The layout was fresh and everything just made sense. I immediatly started installing apps from the new store, things like Evernote, News 360, Wordpress, you know your basic tablet apps. It wasn't until I installed Googles Chrome browser that the mess that is Windows 8 became apparent. When you start any program that is not Metro native it kicks you back in time to a classic mode. So all the programs that I was excited about using on a tablet eccentric OS like Photoshop, Cad or even the new Office 15 might as well be installed on Windows 7 because that is the experience your getting.

The Start button has been replaced with the Metro home screen. So you are constantly bounced back and fourth. A complete mess and nauseating experience. I hope the ARM version will be Windows 8 saviour in that developers will have to completly write native Metro apps. So there won't be this back and forth between new UI old UI thing that is just so damn annoying.

I will, like every new piece of tech give it a try though. So I am looking foward in buying a Windows 8 ARM tablet, hopefully one from Nokia. So if or when I'm complaining later on this board I will know what I am talking about instead of just being that person who just hates everything that doesn't have an Apple logo on it.

I've noticed a lot of users here are becoming that guy who yells at you to get off his lawn all day instead of getting off the porch to see what else is out there.

[/QUOTE]And there was one day a computing without the mouse, watch as touch comes everywhere even to the desktop. And don't think about you stretching to touch the screen, let the screen come to you and fold flat on your desk when you need it. This demo product at CES was absolutely amazing.[/QUOTE]

Are you nuts? This makes no sense at all. Touch on a desktop can only be used for small amounts of time, not all day in an office. Try holding you hand out in front of you for more than 30 seconds

Also have you actually tried resting a touchscreen on a flat surface and using it for any extended period of time? I have with the iPad and it gives me terrible backache crunched up over the screen. Thats is why touch will never work on the desktop period.

The only realistic ergonomic way touch can work is with a tablet or phone and is the reason why we have all those covers that make the iPad stand up at an incline.

The only way to use a desk top is either with a mouse or a touchpad with a vertical display 18" or so in front of the body.

A screen full of small tools and live updates and the ability to start applications akin to Apple's own mobile devices? You think Apple will copy Microsoft to do such a thing?

OH WAIT



Start Screen = Spunk baby of Dashboard, Launchpad and Ubuntu Unity.


Yes. Microsoft Admitted that without the new start screen its just a minor update to Windows 7. So basically, if you buy windows 8, all you're buying is the new Frankenstein user interface.

Its perfect for tablets and tiny laptops. For a desktop its a waste of screen real-estate.

Perhaps the real reason MS is making the metro GUI looks so childish is because in some perverse way they want to make it look like Fischer Price toy thus painting the tablet as an inferior device . Buy a laptop instead" , nah

No actually I think it has more to do with, "oh crap - look what Apple is doing we had better get something out there to compete otherwise we are toast. and as long as we can hype the hell out of it by planting stories in the Windows press about how amazing W8/Metro pig will be and fool enough of our windows folks with false promises about backwards compatibilty that should save our asses until we get our act together until the next window (sic) of opportunity comes around"

the sad part is it will probabaly work too

Never underestimate the ingenuity of the marketing folks are Richmond to design a Piece of Crap and sell it. Just look at Windows! especially when they have so many paid journalists saying things like this:

"I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles"

Its an attempt at Apple/Sony/Nintendo style integration.
All three companies have it done in their own way; Apple has an eco system, Sony have tight hardware integration and Nintendo have complimentary services.

Microsoft seem to think by having Windows, Windows Phone and XBOX all arrive at the party in the same dress will have the same effect, when in reality what we have is a manly man trying too hard, a school girl and an angst ridden teenager (respectively) in one mother of an ugly frock all arriving on the short bus.

I read that article as well.
The first thought in my head was "gee, I wonder how much dopamine Microsoft just injected into that guys neck".

Here's my prediction: ARM-based tablets are a total fake out by Microsoft. They'll either never appear or they'll be quickly dumped on the market and never heard from again, like Chromebooks. Windows 8 is just an update to Microsoft's existing (failed) tablet PC initiative that adds a "media tablet" layer that Microsoft has no intention of developing into a real platform. It's all noise. After the inevitable failure Microsoft will start talking about how x86 tablets will eventually be able to compete with ARM and how Windows 9 will make everything better.

Well I like it and it's defiantly no more childish looking then iOS.

At no point did I say it was childish. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I like Metro for Tablets and Phones. On there it works very well because its clearly geared for small screens and fingers. When my iPhone4 contract is up I'm seriously considering a Nokia Lumia 900 if the iPhone 5 is not up to scratch.

Desktops and Laptop, however... Yeah no
Metro on desktops can be summed up with three words:
Complication through Oversimplification.

Yeah its pretty and all that; but its a waste of screen space, nearly everything I do in windows 7 and Mac OSX now requires an extra click in windows 8, the interface is very obscure and the layout is illogical:

Why is the shutdown button in the settings and lock screen but not in the main menu?
Why do I need to open the Metro settings panel to open the system settings (control panel)?
Why is the control panel in Metro not linked in any way to the actual control panel?
Why do metro apps not appear in the task bar?
Why is there two independent versions of Internet Explorer on a desktop?
Whats the point in Metro when opening the file browser or any other standard desktop application throws you out of metro and back to the normal explorer desktop?
How is Metro supposed to replace or enhance the standard desktop when its applications are limited to a single full screen window with clunky task switching?
What is the point of the "snap" feature when a normal floating window can do the same thing with far more freedom?
Why has the start button been replaced with an arbitrary hot corner?
A hot corner requires the mouse pointer be in the very corner of the screen, how are you supposed to do that comfortably on a tablet without triggering another function?
Why do I need to go into the task manager to fully quit a Metro application?
If its tablet oriented, why is the mouse friendly desktop still there?


I asked myself all these questions in the first ten minutes of using windows 8. Nothing about its interface makes sense. It either needs to be all Metro (downgrade to the 80s in terms of productivity) or be all Explorer Desktop (in which case its a pointless minor upgrade to Windows 7).

Yep I agree, an all Metro UI is the way to go on a tablet. That's why I'm hoping the ARM version will be just that. As the ARM cpu is cot compatible with older Windows programs there will only be new apps written for the Metro, hopefully. This fall back to the classic desktop will ruin Windows 8, it's all or nothing Microsoft, second guessing will only turn more people away.

I will buy a Windows 8 ARM tablet though as I am always excited about new things. If it works out I will continue to use it and promote it if not well I'll sell it and that will be that.

One more thing, you mentioned that there was to much in the way of empty/wasted space on the Metro UI. I think this is the greatest strength. I find it pleasing to my eyes and I really like the live tiles. It makes a lot of sense, especially on a phone or tablet where your fingers do the clicking. Also, is there a way to close down apps in iOS, I don't know this but I think Metro also pauses it's apps when their in the background. Having a Control Panel is just an added benefit, like in Android. Although I think Android is the winner in dealing with opened software, click on the, "Opened Apps" icon, then using your finger slide the app in you want closed to the left, same as unlocking an iPhone but you slide left instead of right, awesome idea.

I was talking about desktop computers, not tablets - the space on desktops and laptops is wasted. I've openly said that Metro is perfectly fine on a tablet device and that I'm considering a Windows Phone. Tablets and Phones being metro only is brilliant. Love the idea. I may invest in a Windows8 ARM tablet as well (just a cheap one to see what its like).

There is a way to close down Apps in iOS and I'm surprised you don't know how to do it since it was all over the iOS4 keynote and in advertisement.

There's the apps, there's the quit button, job done.

With Windows8 you have to leave Metro, start the task manager, find the process or process tree (depending on application) and then end it. its illogical, involves too many clicks and wont be available in a Metro only environment.

Windows8 on a conventional personal computer is clearly a half-baked idea to play catch-up with the other, more sane companies.

The problem with Microsoft making hardware is that its always shit - just look at the xbox! Old xboxes have a 33% failure rate! The new, "slim" model is even worse! 54% failure rate! How do you make hardware with a 54% failure rate!? note that failure rates include both hardware faults and DVDs turned smoothie...

There's a lot of talk on win 8's. Ui being ugly and after after using an iPad for a few days now I've got to ask does anyone actually like the iOS ui?

I suspect people actually don't, reason being none of the popular apps actually use the default ui for apps. All of them are completely customised to the point that even back buttons don't use the default styles. Even apples own apps all have custom ui's, apart from mail which looks a little boring.

So with this in mind it could be argued that all apps on win 8 tablets could look like the iPad versions and then the only difference is the start screen. Now I don't have anything hugely against the iPad start screen, it's certainly a lot better than the android tablets I've looked at. But compared to win 8 it is basic, it can't display any information like the current weather and I've always had issues organising apps nicely into screens. Either you try to put them into folders but there's 1 to many, or you put them onto screens and you end up with far to many screens.

that will be good for MS, although it'll be 7 months too late... cause Apple will have sold 20 million iPad3's by then.... mwahahaha

Care to give some examples of all these non-standard UIs in iOS? Because I've found it remarkably consistent. And I don't see any evidence at all that Apple's apps are customized, apart from the necessary bits for a given functionality (for example, you wouldn't expect iPhoto to have the same UI as GarageBand, would you?)


I'm not seeing how Metro addresses the folder/icon issue. Metro tiles are considerably larger than iOS app icons, so if anything I've got more scrolling to do to see what's available.

Okay calm down there buddy, I know you were only talking about the desktop and I agree with everything you said, in fact all my posts have reflected just that. Windows 8 on desktop is too half baked, however I'm really hoping that the tablet experience will be much better. So much so that I will buy one, I really hope Nokia will be ready in October. If you going to buy a Microsoft based tablet then you should get one from the company that is holding hands with Microsoft.

It's never to late to release a product. If it's good then it should do well. I don't believe anyone will ever match the success that Apple has had but it's also silly to think that their won't be others that can be competitive with good products.

Yes the icon sizes are a little on the large side but they offer live information and other info that could, no is useful. Plus I'm sure there will be apps and tweaks that will allow you to change their size as there are with the mobile version, so it won't be much of an issue. I quite like seeing all of my apps in one long row as well, it's different from transitioning from one page to another sure but when I think about it that doesn't really offer any advantages other then adding effects.

Each to his own but I really think Microsoft has a hit on their hands for tablets. The desktop, well that's another situation completely. Microsoft has a whole lot of tweaking that still needs to be done on that side of things, a whole lot. I would even dare call it a complete failure but we will have to see what the final product brings.

Closing metro apps with the Task Manager is no longer needed with Windows 8 Consumer Preview. In fact, you're not supposed to close metro apps at all. The OS automatically suspend and save states as necessary for apps that are not currently active. But MS added 2 methods to close metro apps for people who insist on managing the apps themselves:

To close metro apps in Windows 8 Consumer Preview (not Developer Preview):

Mouse: 1) Bring the mouse cursor to the top edge and the cursor turns into a "grab hand" that you can click and drag down to close 2) engage the app switcher, right-click on the app, and select close.

Touch: Drag and hold your finger from the top bezel of the active app and follow through to the bottom to close (somewhat like webOS); This gesture also allows you to "snap" an app to the left or right side.

Uuuuh that's like the easiest thing I have ever done, very intuitive if you ask me, however It's now different with the Consumer build. Simply mover your mouse to the upper far left corner of screen and the list of opened apps will appear, Metro and Classic alike, then simply right click to bring down the, "Close" button or if that's to hard and you have a middle button on your mouse, just click that and the app will close. If all of that is still to hard or if your on a tablet, with your mouse or finger simply drag and drop the app to the far right hand corner of the screen and the app will also close. Even still you can always use the oldly but goody, "ALT F4".

So what exactly sucks about that, I wish all OS's had those features.

Because dragging from the top down is how everyone who uses a mouse closes an application on a desktop computer.

Even those methods are still backwards and unintuitive.

So I'm in internet explorer 10 for Metro, I want to close it. To close it with the top-left hot corner I need to go to come out of another application first, then fire up the task switcher, then select the right thumb nail and then drag it as far down to the bottom of the screen as possible. To close it in-app I need to place my mouse at the very top of the screen, click and drag it all the way to the bottom.

On a tablet, great! Thats the kind of thing I'd expect from a tablet. On a desktop with a mouse? I'm running two 21.5" screens at work and have a 27" inch screen with a 21.5" external at home. Dragging, with a mouse, from top to bottom on screens that size (where 20"+ is becoming the standard for desktops) is just a complete mess.

You may be thinking "what about smaller laptops?" - ever tried dragging with a trackpad?

I get how and why it works on tablets and can't wait to try it out on a tablet - but for conventional PCs is just awful.

Hell, you can tell the desktop version of Windows8 is just a half arsed attempted to relight the Windows7 fire by slinging a pointless UI on top. Microsoft calling it a minor update without Metro is one thing, visiting the control panel and seeing that back-up and restore is still called "Windows 7 File Recovery" is another.


I'm having fun using Windows 8 right now, no questions about that - but to do any work its right back to the desktop where I actually have some semblance of organisation. Once the novelty runs out I'm pretty sure I'll be trying to find a way to disable Metro - Microsoft give you that option in Ultimate/Professional (can't remember which) so what the hoo-haa.

Because a task bar and close button don't do all those tasks already

But seriously - why have those when the more mouse friendly taskbar is still there?

You can't close Metro apps with the Taskbar, they don't even show up there, just classic apps. Yep I know it's retarded. Just more proof the Microsoft put two OS's into one, without really much in the way of integration.

I know they're not there, hence the laughing smiley for sarcastic effect.
But yes, it is two operating systems running at once and neither system knows the other is there.

I'll still be investing in a cheap arm win tablet though, just to see what its like. Curiosity has gotten the better of me.

Yea, curiosity has the best of me as well, iOS or Android are far from being the perfect tablet OS. So I will keep searching till I find one. I do really like Metro UI though and I hope Microsoft can pull it off.