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post #41 of 130
3/21/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

More like "You can buy this 6 litre V8 Truck but if you always put pedal to the metal and burn rubber, you'll go through tires and gasoline like nobody's business (which surprise, surprise, will cost'ya"

No, it's, "You can buy this vehicle, but don't expect to use it for any of the normal uses for which you'd use any other older, slower vehicle."
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #42 of 130
3/21/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR View Post

and since AT&T does not throttle the iPad I can only guess what my month usage will be.

Don't count on that lasting. In fact I give it another 3 months tops and they will be throttling 4g if not also 3g use. They will likely follow their iPhone rules and do it after you hit 3GB a month since that's the same cost to the user on a tiered plan. And then folks will pitch the same fits they do over iPhone throttling screaming how they are paying for unlimited and throttling is a limit etc. Only to have it pointed out from the terms and conditions they didn't bother reading when they signed up that in fact they agreed to terms saying that speeds were not guaranteed and could be adjusted based on the needs of the network to insure service to all customers etc etc.
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post #43 of 130
3/21/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Don't count on that lasting. In fact I give it another 3 months tops and they will be throttling 4g if not also 3g use. They will likely follow their iPhone rules and do it after you hit 3GB a month since that's the same cost to the user on a tiered plan. And then folks will pitch the same fits they do over iPhone throttling screaming how they are paying for unlimited and throttling is a limit etc. Only to have it pointed out from the terms and conditions they didn't bother reading when they signed up that in fact they agreed to terms saying that speeds were not guaranteed and could be adjusted based on the needs of the network to insure service to all customers etc etc.

Totally disagree. Why would AT&T and Verizon throttle a data plan where the more you use, the more you pay? You need to take Business 101.
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post #44 of 130
3/21/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

This will only work to a point. There still can only be so much traffic in a given space. We're not there yet, but follow the exponential mobile bandwidth growth a little further down the line and you'll see.

That is only true based on the tower spacing. The carriers need to encourage opportunistic use of WiFi, and utilize more pico cells in high use areas. They want to make people believe it is a scarce resource, because you can better control prices when you have scarcity. Right now, most of that scarcity is artificial.
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post #45 of 130
3/21/12 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

This will only work to a point. There still can only be so much traffic in a given space. We're not there yet, but follow the exponential mobile bandwidth growth a little further down the line and you'll see. Have you ever tried to set up Wifi in a crowded apartment complex?.

That's because every wifi router uses the same transmit power, so it's really not comparable. It doesn't matter if you live in a 500 square foot apartment, your router blasts its signal out with the same power as if you live in a 5000 square foot mansion. Smaller cells, on the other hand, use lower power to avoid stomping on each others feet.
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post #46 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, it's, "You can buy this vehicle, but don't expect to use it for any of the normal uses for which you'd use any other older, slower vehicle."

That's ridiculous.

When you buy a car, you expect to pay for gas and maintenance. The more you drive it, the greater your costs will be.

When you buy a tablet or phone, you expect to pay for data access. The more you use it, the greater your cost will be.

It's entirely up to the user to use (or not use) the iPad for any purpose they wish.
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post #47 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:03am
I know everyone has a different lifestyle but I find it difficult to imagine why people would want to view full length movies while outdoors away from wifi. Sure occasionally you may find yourself in a hotel with pricey wifi and want to watch a movie. Or maybe when you go to visit your grandmother for the weekend and she doesn't have wifi. Honestly how many people spend all day outdoors using their iPad?

I live a fairly routine existence I guess. I commute 20 minutes each way to work, which is not a situation where I would be downloading movies, then working 9-5 M-F where I have wifi and then I go home, where I have wifi. I don't see the speed trap issue at all.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #48 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:05am
Really what do you expect from a culture that is based on Instant gratification?

I bought the first iPhone when it first came out. What I discovered is after the initial wow factor and walking long with my face glued to it - it was actually ruining my life. So 3 years later I decided to go back to an ordinary dumb phone. I have saved my self about $70 per month because now I have a "pay as you go" plan whch I fill up with $100 worth of minutes every 3-4 months or so. My phone calls for the year are about $400 to $500 vs $1300 for a smart phone. A saving of $800 to $900.

I use a wifi only iPad2, which if I need access to the net, i go to a MacDonalds, Starbucks etc. Not really all that of a burden

This is called "taking one's seniority back from Technology" so I control it, not the other way around.

All these 3G/4G/LTE plans are just creative ways the cellular companies dreamed up to fleece the public. LTE just makes the act of removing money from our wallets faster thats all really. Buyer beware. I must admit they make it very easy to do this! BRILLIANT
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post #49 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmj2u View Post

This is exactly why I didn't waste my money on a LTE version of the iPad. I simply tether to my iPhone for $25 more per month and I now have 5GB to use that will be shared between my phone and my iPad.

This works out especially well for me for several reasons:
1. I have a car charger that I can use to charge my 4s on the go if need be
2. I normally only use about 300MB of my 2GB cap with my iPhone
3. I spent $130 less on the device up front
4. 5GB of space for less than it would have cost me to purchase an additional 2GB exclusively for my iPad
5. I use WiFi when I'm at home anyway, so that data is never capped and I can stream Hi Def all day and night without any issues.

Having a separate plan just didn't make sense in my case.

I don't consider it waste. To me, it is insurance. I work from home so I'm on wi-fi most of the time. But I can tell you, on those occasions when I wanted a connection, I would have gladly paid the money. And since you can turn it on or off, to me, it was a no-brainer. And now, when I eventually part with the device, most likely giving it to my mother or an in-law, they've got a self contained solution ready to go if necessary.
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post #50 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I wonder why this is a top story with the iPad when there were several Android devices with LTE last year. I assume they all consume more data than 3G devices.

Faster data does not mean more data. The web page you just downloaded is the same size regardless of how fast you download it. It's that you will have more time to surf the Internet because of less waiting time, thus more data will be consumed. It's like the guy who is at the "all you can eat bar". If you give him a bigger plate he will put more food on it. It won't be about hunger it will be about consumption.
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post #51 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Hmm...."everyone hates the carriers". Half the carriers aren't even making a profit (Sprint, T-Mobile) and the other half are just doing "OK" (Verizon, AT&T). Yet when the carriers want to raise more capital in order to invest in the infrastructure, all of us cry foul over the increase in our monthly bills. Yet Apple is able to earn 50% profit on every item they sell and we are OK with that. Strange world.

Look at why they aren't making a profit before making those statements. I'm pretty T-Mo makes a marginal profit, but can't quickly find the data. The gross margins on mobile phone service are around 70%, offset simply by the cost of your phone subsidy. The cost of bits through the air is negligible; it is the fixed infrastructure that forms the costs.
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post #52 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Really what do you expect from a culture that is based on Instant gratification?

I bought the first iPhone when it first came out. What I discovered is after the initial wow factor and walking long with my face glued to it - it was actually ruining my life. So 3 years later I decided to go back to an ordinary dumb phone. I have saved my self about $70 per month because now I have a "pay as you go" plan whch I fill up with $100 worth of minutes every 3-4 months or so. My phone calls for the year are about $400 to $500 vs $1300 for a smart phone. A saving of $800 to $900.

All these LTE plans are just creative ways the cellular companies dreamed up to fleece the public. Buyer beware. I must admit they make it very easy to do this! BRILLIANT

Not to mention the ways to have an iPhone at feature phone prices.
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post #53 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, it's, "You can buy this vehicle, but don't expect to use it for any of the normal uses for which you'd use any other older, slower vehicle."

Rubbish. You can use it freely for any of the uses for which you used your old iPad. Just beware of data usage if you watch video over 4G LTE. It ain't rocket science.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's ridiculous.

When you buy a car, you expect to pay for gas and maintenance. The more you drive it, the greater your costs will be.

When you buy a tablet or phone, you expect to pay for data access. The more you use it, the greater your cost will be.

It's entirely up to the user to use (or not use) the iPad for any purpose they wish.

Exactly. Maybe the new iPad should have a warning sticker: "Streaming video over 4G LTE will generally burn through your data package quicker than if you stream over 3G, depending on the bandwidth of the video stream"
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post #54 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Totally disagree. Why would AT&T and Verizon throttle a data plan where the more you use, the more you pay? You need to take Business 101.

He's talking about unlimited plans...
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post #55 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Hmm...."everyone hates the carriers". Half the carriers aren't even making a profit (Sprint, T-Mobile) and the other half are just doing "OK" (Verizon, AT&T). Yet when the carriers want to raise more capital in order to invest in the infrastructure, all of us cry foul over the increase in our monthly bills. Yet Apple is able to earn 50% profit on every item they sell and we are OK with that. Strange world.

Could you provide some evidence that they're not making money? I'd be very curious to read up on this. Thanks!
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post #56 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus009 View Post

He's talking about unlimited plans...

AT&T has publicly stated that they are not currently clamping down on Unlimited plans on iPads. The iPhone does not have LTE so this is all a moot argument for LTE on unlimited. It would make me think that people consume more data on the phones than iPads, which you would think the opposite.
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post #57 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:28am
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmj2u View Post

This is exactly why I didn't waste my money on a LTE version of the iPad. I simply tether to my iPhone for $25 more per month and I now have 5GB to use that will be shared between my phone and my iPad.

This works out especially well for me for several reasons:
1. I have a car charger that I can use to charge my 4s on the go if need be
2. I normally only use about 300MB of my 2GB cap with my iPhone
3. I spent $130 less on the device up front
4. 5GB of space for less than it would have cost me to purchase an additional 2GB exclusively for my iPad
5. I use WiFi when I'm at home anyway, so that data is never capped and I can stream Hi Def all day and night without any issues.

Having a separate plan just didn't make sense in my case.
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post #58 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:29am
I think this whole data issue is an unforeseen situation for the carriers. After all, they have sold you the phone and locked you up for two years. Let's remember if you never use your phone you will still pay them. All they ever wanted to do is sign you up. When it was just phone calls it was never an issue. Now all this data crap is a thorn in their side. I bet they just wish it would all go away and they could just charge us for not using our phones.
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post #59 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:30am
This is exactly the reason why, several weeks ago, AT&T raised the possibility of allowing content providers to opt into a service of subsidizing their customers' mobile data usage (akin to 1-800 numbers, but for wireless data).

AT&T saw the writing on the wall -- They knew this sort of situation would arise, and they've already proposed their solution.
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post #60 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:33am
Verizon's entry level plan is 1GB for $20 a month. I am using that right now on the new iPad.
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post #61 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:38am
+1 Apple, -50 carriers

Carriers not ready for data consumption over 4G? Big surprise there. They've been been behind on the curve of almost every technological innovation in the mobile space for years now. If it weren't for apple constantly pushing them, we'd still be at 2G speeds today.

Honestly I have NO sympathy for them they made a high speed network... if they don't want people using it, then they shouldn't have built it in the first place.
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post #62 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's ridiculous.

When you buy a car, you expect to pay for gas and maintenance. The more you drive it, the greater your costs will be.

When you buy a tablet or phone, you expect to pay for data access. The more you use it, the greater your cost will be.

It's entirely up to the user to use (or not use) the iPad for any purpose they wish.

There is no place here for logic and common sense. Be gone! ...

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #63 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:39am
I saw this BS coming and told my girlfriend that if I get the new iPad, I did, I wouldn't waste my time on the 4g version. She got me the 16 gig wifi new iPad. I'm happy as can be.
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post #64 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus009 View Post

Could you provide some evidence that they're not making money? I'd be very curious to read up on this. Thanks!

Sprint 4Q 2011 Results: 1.3 billion net loss

http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_d...rticle_id=2179

T-Mobile is owned by Deutsche Telecom and their margins are rolled up into that balance sheet. However, they did lose 800k subscribers last quarter and had a reduction in revenue.

http://www.knowyourcell.com/news/125...k_in_2013.html
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post #65 of 130
3/21/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Wireless spectrum and bandwidth resources are finite. It's only going to get worse. This has been a known problem for several years that's starting to rear it's head now. Unlimited plans are not coming back, as much as I wish they would.

I agree they won't come back. However, 2GB is insanely low. The problem is the caps are just unreasonable. If that cap was 10GB or 20GB, that would be more reasonable. After that, charge $10 a gig for more.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #66 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:08am
I have AT&T LTE iPad 3, I signed up, ran a single speed test and it used up 90 MB with a single test. Then I left it on, commute to work (15 minutes) then it told me that I used up 113 MB out of 250 MB.

At this rate, I'm going to cancel my account, and only turn it on when I need to.
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post #67 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Sprint 4Q 2011 Results: 1.3 billion net loss

http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_d...rticle_id=2179

T-Mobile is owned by Deutsche Telecom and their margins are rolled up into that balance sheet. However, they did lose 800k subscribers last quarter and had a reduction in revenue.

http://www.knowyourcell.com/news/125...k_in_2013.html

Thanks, but what about AT&T and Verizon? Those are the two that I'm interested in. Are the big boys only breaking even? Sorry, I ought to just google this stuff. Let's see....
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post #68 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:24am
And in other news... The harder it rains the wetter you get!
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #69 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:32am
Hmm, price fixing? Come on, like Verizon and AT&T didn't know people would start burning through their caps on 4G? If 4G is 10 times faster than 3G, shouldn't the caps be 10 times more? Would that be just a little bit fair? I would buy a 3rd Gen iPad with LTE if they raise their $30/month cap to something like 20GB or more. Anything less is just stupid..

I remember paying $19.99 a month for unlimited 56k access using a local number so I didn't get charged extra on my phone bill. This made the internet what it is today. I was accessible to millions for practically nothing.. Now They charge $30 a month for about an hour or two of heavy use? Crazy.

It does make me feel angry that, as an American, I have to pay more for much less than someone in Europe. I agree with some of the other posters, where is your pride Verizon/AT&T?

I'd love to see what Sprint does when they get their LTE up and running. Come on Sprint, make us proud!!

Sad..
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post #70 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I know everyone has a different lifestyle but I find it difficult to imagine why people would want to view full length movies while outdoors away from wifi. Sure occasionally you may find yourself in a hotel with pricey wifi and want to watch a movie. Or maybe when you go to visit your grandmother for the weekend and she doesn't have wifi. Honestly how many people spend all day outdoors using their iPad?

I live a fairly routine existence I guess. I commute 20 minutes each way to work, which is not a situation where I would be downloading movies, then working 9-5 M-F where I have wifi and then I go home, where I have wifi. I don't see the speed trap issue at all.

Yeah, what about that? From reading this thread you get the impression no one has WiFi at all and they're in the habit of downloading movies on the bus.

I, too, spend the better part of my day within reach of WiFi, and to the extent I would use LTE data under a data cap it would just be a nice convenience-- fast responses to search inquiries, map info, the odd You Tube vid and the like. That wouldn't induce me to use more data than under 3G, however, it would just be a better experience for the way I use data now.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #71 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The combination of data caps and high-speed LTE devices was characterized as a "quandary for wireless carriers" by the Journal

Au contraire, the combination is a quandary for consumers.
The carriers have carefully set their trap.
Consumers must carefully monitor their usage over the course of a month or be faced with the choice of a higher bill or no more data usage until the next month.
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post #72 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

I have AT&T LTE iPad 3, I signed up, ran a single speed test and it used up 90 MB with a single test. Then I left it on, commute to work (15 minutes) then it told me that I used up 113 MB out of 250 MB.

At this rate, I'm going to cancel my account, and only turn it on when I need to.

Hahaha!
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post #73 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:45am
I remember when they installed the new super video games at the arcade. I would go to the token machine put in $5.00 and get 25 Tokens, but suddenly, the new cool games took 3 tokens instead of 1. Here's the question: should I have asked that I get more tokens for my $5 or complained that the new games should only take 1 token? Same problem....Older kids.....lol
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post #74 of 130
3/21/12 at 10:48am
Reminds me of the 90s when Intel was increasing their processsing power but Microsoft kept bloating their software.. Intel giveth and Microsoft takeith away.

Now Apple giveth and the carriers taketith away.
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post #75 of 130
3/21/12 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yeah, what about that? From reading this thread you get the impression no one has WiFi at all and they're in the habit of downloading movies on the bus.

I, too, spend the better part of my day within reach of WiFi, and to the extent I would use LTE data under a data cap it would just be a nice convenience-- fast responses to search inquiries, map info, the odd You Tube vid and the like. That wouldn't induce me to use more data than under 3G, however, it would just be a better experience for the way I use data now.

I think that the mainstream release of LTE has prompted a lot of people to test the limits. We're seeing a big spike in usage "because we can" but it probably won't be sustained. Most people will gradually converge towards their previous data usage habits, some will develop new habits to consume more data (here we will see the most variance in behavior), and some fewer will continue to suck the system dry any way they can figure.

Surges like this help to pave the way for pricebreaks as carriers will see that people are eager to use the bandwidth but cannot due to prohibitive pricing. While this may seem like a stalemate at first blush, it will eventually prompt carriers to reconfigure their pricing if only to make the service more appealing, thus the long-term gain by consumers.

Regardless, I'm still in the "prefer to tether" camp. Um... but I don't have tethering services and I don't have an iPad, but that's what I'll do when the iPad 4 or 5 comes around.
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post #76 of 130
3/21/12 at 11:13am
Hmmm... A 5 minute FaceTime chat would completely exhaust my measly gigabit plan.

Just last week I was one of the few crying about the inability to FaceTime over LTE. I'm just gonna shut my face and be glad that I can't.

I've only conducted several speed tests on LTE and I've already managed to burn through over half of my data.

Thank God for the "turn off LTE" button and wifi.
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post #77 of 130
3/21/12 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Hmmm... A 5 minute FaceTime chat would completely exhaust my measly gigabit plan.

Just last week I was one of the few crying about the inability to FaceTime over LTE. I'm just gonna shut my face and be glad that I can't.

I've only conducted several speed tests on LTE and I've already managed to burn through over half of my data.

Thank God for the "turn off LTE" button and wifi.

Even more to the point, think about how quickly that data would go if you could use LTE (or 3G) for FaceTime and Apple had a 5 MP camera in front of the iPad as some have requested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

I have AT&T LTE iPad 3, I signed up, ran a single speed test and it used up 90 MB with a single test. Then I left it on, commute to work (15 minutes) then it told me that I used up 113 MB out of 250 MB.

At this rate, I'm going to cancel my account, and only turn it on when I need to.

Or, you could simply turn off LTE and only turn it on when you need it - without canceling your account.

However, it's still not clear why you're blaming LTE. The speed test would have used the same amount of data no matter which network you were using - LTE, 3G, or EDGE.
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post #78 of 130
3/21/12 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


However, it's still not clear why you're blaming LTE. The speed test would have used the same amount of data no matter which network you were using - LTE, 3G, or EDGE.

Are you implying that If my download speed is 1 mb and your download speed is 25 mb, we will use the same amount of data when conducting a speed test? And the only difference is your test completes faster than mine?
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post #79 of 130
3/21/12 at 11:31am
What about all the "other" 4G devices and tablets out there? Why is the focus only on the iPad? I don't understand that. People on this very forum were clamoring that the iPad3 better have 4G or no sale. Now that it does, people are whining that the iPad (not the user themselves) are eating through their data caps? Jeez... does no one accept responsibility for their actions?

Really now, where is the responsibility of the user to understand that using a cell's data plan is a finite resource that should be managed responsibly? I use my iPad2 3G service only when absolutely necessary to take care of mobile-stuff to keep me connected at work. Otherwise, it's WiFi all the way.

Now, if some clown wants to watch an HD movie on a cell-data plan while commuting to work on a subway bus instead of WiFi, don't even start complaining as to why you burned through all data usage. You have only yourself to blame for it. It's not the Telecom's fault and it's certainly not Apple's fault.

People here seem to have some sense of entitlement that every pipe is an unlimited resource just begging to be exploited.
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post #80 of 130
3/21/12 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Don't count on that lasting. In fact I give it another 3 months tops and they will be throttling 4g if not also 3g use. They will likely follow their iPhone rules and do it after you hit 3GB a month since that's the same cost to the user on a tiered plan. And then folks will pitch the same fits they do over iPhone throttling screaming how they are paying for unlimited and throttling is a limit etc. Only to have it pointed out from the terms and conditions they didn't bother reading when they signed up that in fact they agreed to terms saying that speeds were not guaranteed and could be adjusted based on the needs of the network to insure service to all customers etc etc.

Well they did not throttle the iPad on 3G and are saying they won't on 4g. Remember that the unlimited plans on iPad are a small amount of users and know amount that does not grow. They can maintain them without throttling just for data collection. Unlimited plans are just to small on ioad to make a difference to their network.

Now cell phone unlimited plans are a huge amount of customers and do tax their network heavily, that's why they throttle phones IMHO...
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