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Rumor: Next-gen iPhone to feature 4.6-inch Retina Display - Page 3

post #81 of 110
3/22/12 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDark View Post

Phones and tablets are fundamentally different.

Indeed, so another question: what's the point of a 16:9 screen on a phone? What purpose does it serve?

Quote:
That extra space is gravy. A developer doesn't have to use it, but it's there if they want to.

Of course they have to use it. No self-respecting developer is going to create an app, of all things, with black bars on the side. People hate that enough with video content as it is.

Quote:
But for the iPhone, it has to do without.

Pretty sure it's doing within, not wasting its time with 16:9. I personally wish it had never moved to computer displays.
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post #82 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Indeed, so another question: what's the point of a 16:9 screen on a phone? What purpose does it serve?

Already explained. It offers the potential for extra screen realestate that would not be possible with 4:3 unless you make the overall phone size more unwieldy.
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post #83 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDark View Post

Already explained. It offers the potential for extra screen realestate that would not be possible with 4:3 unless you make the overall phone size more unwieldy.

Apple and I seem to think that's the wrong real estate.
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post #84 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple and I seem to think that's the wrong real estate.

Well I would say extra realestate is better than no extra realestate.
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post #85 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:24pm
I would LOVE to see a screen this size. 3.5 is just too small anymore.

Really what Apple should do is give the consumer more choice with different screen sizes and colors.

And please get rid of that damn hardware button and replace it with a touch version.
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post #86 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDark View Post

Well I would say extra realestate is better than no extra realestate.

And that would be the case if we were talking about the iPhone shuffle. Since there's no product that will ever exist like that…

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Really what Apple should do is give the consumer more choice with different screen sizes and colors.

And then maybe they should make all their products out of black plastic and race everyone else to the bottom!

Quote:
And please get rid of that damn hardware button and replace it with a touch version.

We always need a hardware out. Who in the world would want a touch Home Button when the gestures are so much better for non-tactile work?
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post #87 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

Too big. My iPhone barley fits in my pocket as is. I hope not.

Barely fits?
You do realize the iPhone (and all other phones) are not meant to fit into that little coin pocket in the right, front pocket?
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post #88 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An unverified report claims Apple has begun placing orders for a 4.6-inch Retina Display bound for the next-generation iPhone that could launch as early as "around the second quarter."

Please no. I want a phone that fits my pocket and that I can use with a single hand. I have no use for an ironing board.
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post #89 of 110
3/22/12 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

It's more likely that Adriana Lima and Alessandra Ambrosio will drop by for a night of sex with me than it is that this rumor is true.

And Adriana is married, a mother of two, and highly religious. And Alessandra is presently about four months pregnant.

So, do the math.

Okay.
I think the math is; AL + AA + s = me +
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post #90 of 110
3/22/12 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It's completely ridiculous to think that this could be for the next iPhone.

A 4.6" screen with the iPhone's aspect ratio would be difficult to even hold.

This is achievable in the current form factor by eliminating/squeezing the home button and moving camera/speaker to the edge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Apple would need to change the aspect ratio which would change the UI which is something Apple simply can't do.

They can execute it with ease and no pain for developers and users. All existing apps just run in the same resolution. Top/bottom screen areas may stay off or get used by OS notifications, multi-task controls etc.
The new apps that wish to utilize full screen (like browser, video players) just use new APIs to access the full wide display.

Very very simple!
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post #91 of 110
3/22/12 at 6:20pm
Is is quite likely that Apple will try to standardize the current screen size madness of 4 sizes (orig. iPhone, iPhone doubled, orig. iPad, iPad doubled) down to just two: orig. iPad, iPad doubled.

In that sense I kind of expect the next iPhone to use a 768x1024 resolution.
This might still qualify as Retina display on a 4.6" size.


and even when increasing the screen size the actual iPhone might not be that much larger if Apple manages to reduce top and bottom sizes.
Remove the bottom button, replaced with a 4 or 5 finger gesture. Or make the button slim or put it on the side of the device.
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post #92 of 110
3/22/12 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Is is quite likely that Apple will try to standardize the current screen size madness of 4 sizes (orig. iPhone, iPhone doubled, orig. iPad, iPad doubled) down to just two: orig. iPad, iPad doubled.

In that sense I kind of expect the next iPhone to use a 768x1024 resolution.
This might still qualify as Retina display on a 4.6" size.


and even when increasing the screen size the actual iPhone might not be that much larger if Apple manages to reduce top and bottom sizes.
Remove the bottom button, replaced with a 4 or 5 finger gesture. Or make the button slim or put it on the side of the device.

1) 1024x768 is a 4:3 aspect ratio making it very, very wide and unwieldy for a phone. It would have to be smaller than the iPhone on the diagonal to be as wide.

2) 4.6" 1024x768 is 278 PPI, a little more than the iPad 3.

3) Reduing the top and bottom casing doesn't resolve the issue of width. IOW, how wide the device I on the short side. If Apple wants to maintain the same usability and not alter the aspect ratio then 4" would about the limit but that would require reducing the size bezel and/or making it thinner to retain the thumb sweep. For 4.6" to be feasible I would have to be a very widescreen display.

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post #93 of 110
3/22/12 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Is is quite likely that Apple will try to standardize the current screen size madness of 4 sizes (orig. iPhone, iPhone doubled, orig. iPad, iPad doubled) down to just two: orig. iPad, iPad doubled.

In that sense I kind of expect the next iPhone to use a 768x1024 resolution.

Why would they go from 3:2 to 4:3 on the next iPhone?

Quote:
Remove the bottom button, replaced with a 4 or 5 finger gesture.

We always need a hardware out.

Quote:
Or make the button slim or put it on the side of the device.

On the Android devices I've tried, that shuts the thing off prematurely for me.
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post #94 of 110
3/22/12 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

For 4.6" to be feasible I would have to be a very widescreen display.

Calculations show that by making display edge-to-edge wide (2 1/4 inches instead of just 2) and round-corner-to-round-corner long (4 inches instead of 3), the diagonal would be
square root of (4^2 + 2.25^2) = 4.58938994 which is in line with the rumor

Without making screen width edge-to-edge the maximum for the current form factor is

square root of (4^2 + 2^2) = 4.47213595
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post #95 of 110
3/22/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

We always need a hardware out.

Nice excuse. So what makes it so difficult to put that damn home button on the edge of the device along with power and volume buttons?
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post #96 of 110
3/22/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

Nice excuse. So what makes it so difficult to put that damn home button on the edge of the device along with power and volume buttons?

They could do that and I quite like that idea but does it sound like a solution that Apple would incorporate?

If we're thinking of alternative ways to include a Home Button how about building it into the bottom 1/6th of the display much like the trackpads work?

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post #97 of 110
3/22/12 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

Nice excuse. So what makes it so difficult to put that damn home button on the edge of the device along with power and volume buttons?

Because then you send it Home accidentally, as I previously stated.
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post #98 of 110
3/22/12 at 7:13pm
Your sarcasm is a waste of our time. And my point still stands: Apple should diversify its iPhone offerings JUST LIKE IT DID WITH THE IPOD LINE. That strategy was a success.

As everyone knows, the hardware button sucks. Double-clicks work 50% of the time AT BEST.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And then maybe they should make all their products out of black plastic and race everyone else to the bottom!



We always need a hardware out. Who in the world would want a touch Home Button when the gestures are so much better for non-tactile work?
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post #99 of 110
3/22/12 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Apple should diversify its iPhone offerings JUST LIKE IT DID WITH THE IPOD LINE. That strategy was a success.

You're not understanding the difference between the iPod running a Linux-based OS and having no App Store and iOS-based iDevices. YOU CAN'T SWITCH DISPLAY SIZES, RESOLUTIONS, AND ASPECT RATIOS YEAR-OVER-YEAR LIKE THEY DID WITH THE iPOD NANO.

Quote:
As everyone knows, the hardware button sucks. Double-clicks work 50% of the time AT BEST.

Being a physical button it's possible for the HW to be defective but I have no knowledge of double-clicking only working 50% of the time on iPod Touches, iPhones and iPads. Do you have documentation to back up this claim?

TS is right, you need the HW out. This not negotiable at this time. There is a reason these devices have HW buttons. It certainly wasn't because they couldn't figure out how to make them SW-based.

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post #100 of 110
3/22/12 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Apple should diversify its iPhone offerings JUST LIKE IT DID WITH THE IPOD LINE. That strategy was a success.

So a dumbphone for people who don't want apps, the mythical 2"-screened iPhone nano, a regular iPhone, and then a 5" phone for basketball players.

It was a success, sure, but the iPod touch is virtually redundant now and the iPod classic is dead. Matching that current situation up with a projection, that'd mean the real iPhone would be killed off in favor of just the 5" one and the dumbphone, and people don't really want dumbphones, so that'd be killed off…

So just the 2" and 5" models, then?

Quote:
As everyone knows, the hardware button sucks.

It has always worked beautifully for me on all of my iDevices.

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Double-clicks work 50% of the time AT BEST.

100% for me. But I suppose some hyperbole is in order.

Look, I absolutely love the gestures. I use them exclusively to get around… except when they don't work because an app is hanging. Then I simply tap the Home Button a single time and it immediately takes me where I want to go. It's comfort. It wouldn't feel right buying a device without that protection.

Macs still have physical power buttons. Because occasionally we have to hold them down for ten seconds and start anew. What happens when your computer's stuck and you go to press that software power button you so thoroughly campaigned for only to find that it's doing diddly-squat?

Yanking power cables is for Hollywood movies as a last resort when hackers are getting your data.
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post #101 of 110
3/22/12 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because then you send it Home accidentally, as I previously stated.

It's quite opposite for me actually. It's the home button that I hit accidentally while playing games.
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post #102 of 110
3/22/12 at 8:36pm
I guess we agree that in order to get the screen much bigger while keeping the iPhone as small as possible, getting rid of the home button at the bottom would help a lot.

But how to do it?

I envisioned a two-fold approach:

1.) 4 and/or 5 finger pinch-close guesture (both would work the same)
(plus double-tap and same gesture for double-click.)

This will work for most applications and most people I am sure.
But not for all, therefore as an alternative:

2.) Add an extra button on the side of the iPhone, e.g. top center.

A Settings option can assign this botton another feature or disable it, or the 4/5 finger gesture altogether for people who don't want this.
But you can also choose to have both methods active at the same time, to use either button or gesture at will.

It doesn't even need to be a physical button, it could just be a sensor button or strip.
Although with sensor buttons you'd likely need 2, one for portrait and landscape orientation, automatically deactivating the other one.

Although a physical button would probably be best. I wonder if the On/Off button could not do double duty as home button.
Off would be click-hold.
Single click either wakes the iPhone or goes to the home sceen, same for double-click.
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post #103 of 110
3/22/12 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I guess if you have to use phone size to make up for feelings of inferiority over size of more important things, I'm happy that you've found a consolation.

Yeah, DaHarder's proud of his 4.65 inches
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post #104 of 110
3/22/12 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There are plenty of things you haven't accounted for. For starters, only some developers adopted quickly. A year later I still had app updates that were just getting support for the Retina Display.

Even now with the iPad very few of my apps have been updated for the Retina Display. Developers should have seen this coming from the start, yet there are apps that won't work correctly on the new iPad. Here is a prime example of not following Apple's stupid walled garden, Gestapo guidelines.
But that's not even the crux of the issue. With the iPhone and iPad the display size and aspect ratio remained the same. It was a doubling of the resolution. If we're talking about a 4.6" phone we are talking about a new resolution AND a new aspect ratio. Why?
  1. 960x640 is not Retina Display at 4.6" for a normal viewing distance as the PPI is only 251. That's less than the iPad which you do hold farther from your face.

  2. You can't use the 3:2 aspect ratio for a 4.6" display and expect it to be comfortable in the hand. The iPhone can get bigger but to maintain being a one handed device that can be used with one thumb the aspect ratio would have to be change. Even the 16:9 of Android-based phones would make it too wide IMO.
So we have a new resolution, new aspect ratio and a new size which means Apple and devs have to start over. One small solution could be to make the PPI the about the same as the iPhone 4S so that apps will be represented pixel-for-pixel on the larger display like on the iPad, except be the accurate size, until apps are rewritten, but if you've ever used iPhone apps on the iPad it's a pretty bad experience.

4.6" iPhone is not going to happen, so your points are moot.
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post #105 of 110
3/23/12 at 9:52am
4.65 is definitely too large. But 3.5 is definitely too small.

I have a Galaxy Nexus. And for all those complaints about the Pentile display, you won't find any from users or reviewers. Most find the screen to be gorgeous. But it's a little too big. I don't have small hands by any measure, but it's a stretch to reach the top of the screen for the notfication blind. Mind you, some of it has to do with the phone itself. The Galaxy Nexus still has a large bezel for a phone that does not have buttons.

On the other hand, once you get used to using a larger display, it's simply impossible to go back to using a small screen. I don't care how good the resolution is. A larger screen makes everything from web browsing to reading to movie watching easier. It makes for a better gaming experience too (especially where games are using on screen controllers).

The average person doesn't care about programmers or their dilemmas with scaling. They see a bigger screen. They squint less. They like it. So it makes sense for Apple to go slightly bigger. That doesn't have to be as large as the Galaxy Nexus. Just a little better than today (somewhere between 4-4.5in).
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post #106 of 110
3/23/12 at 11:30am
Reading this thread, one is reminded of the warning given to the attendees at the original Woodstock concert:

"Watch out for the brown acid!!"

Sheesh.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by grblade View Post

I'm pretty sure 300 ppi is 300 ppi no matter how far away you hold it.

Really, huh??

However, while 100% true, also 100% irrelevant: 300 ppi is NOT Apple's definition of "Retina Display."

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromeus View Post

4" iPhone with 1024 by 768 pixel would be great. If Apple makes this move, App developers won't need to make updates to their apps as the 4" iPhone can use iPad apps natively. Eventually, the current iPhone aspect ratio will be phased out and developers will only need to worry about one aspect ratio with 2X graphic for iPad and 1X graphic for iPhone.

Imagine how happy app developers would be if their apps can be 1024x768 for iPhone and 2048x1536 for iPad.

The app store can be updated to look like this.

iPhone
iPhone 5 and iPad

Then in a few years when Apple no longer supports the iPhone 4/4S like they no longer support iPhone 3G and iPhone original... all they need to worry about is an app store without tabs for iPhone and iPad like they do now since the aspect ration would still be the same with different resolutions which can just be 1x or 2x graphics.

A 4" iPhone with 1024 by 768 resolution would have a screen size of 3.2" x 2.4" with 320 DPI.

Imagine. Imagine there's no iPhone variant. You can do it if you try...

The touch targets and print would be entirely unsable/unreadable. NTM the 1.25:1 aspect ratio would be unappealing on the phone compared to 1.5:1.

But then the "world could view as one."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Even more unlikely is they'd say 4.6" is too big.

288.44 PPI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

Steve made it a point to explain that the human eye can only discern 300 pixels when a phone is held about 12 inches from your face.

So keeping that standard, what does apple need to do to keep the same aspect ratio, and PPI with a bigger screen and the same aspect ratio?

960x640 = 614400 pixels
3.5 = 329.65 PPI
3.7 = 311.83 PPI
3.9 = 295.84 PPI

1152x768 = 884736 pixels
4" = 346.13 PPI
4.2" = 329.65 PPI

1296x864 = 1119744 pixels (HD Level)
4" = 389.4 PPI
4.2" = 370.86 PPI

Calculator here: http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

Seems like the 1152x768 would be perfect for a 4" screen.

Other than the fact that every app (and iOS and the developer tools) would have to be re-written and every new app would likely be tougher to write for with more (undoubled) resolutions to write for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

9to5 has posted a poll on what iPhone users would like to see for screen size on the next iPhone. After 60K+ votes, over 60% of the respondents would accept a larger iPhone if they could have a 4" or larger display. In fact more voters want a much larger display. 4.3" or bigger, than leaving it as is. Going by those results, unscientific tho they may be, it's still a good indicator IMO that most iPhone users aren't particularly happy with the relatively small screens on the current model.
http://9to5mac.com/2012/03/21/could-...y/#more-154581

I think a larger display is certainly in Apple's plans.

Which is why it massively outsells any version of any phone with a larger screen and form factor, right??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefish86 View Post

My prediction:
Apple will go with a 4-4.1" display at a 16:9 ratio. This maintains the same width as the existing iPhones, and therefore their one-handed usability. The phone may be taller, but the existing top bezel is unnecessarily large, so they could eat into it to minimize the overall size change. The horizontal pixel count would stay the same, but the vertical one would increase. Existing iPhone apps already have to take vertical length changes into account (think the "you're in a call" and the "device connected to hotspot" banners), so many would work already, and the rest could be fixed with minimal changes. The extra height of the display could also afford a (slightly) thicker status bar across the top, opening up possibilities for new notification and/or multitasking features. The extra height available to apps would greatly increase usability when the on-screen keyboard is shown (the one major drawback of the current iPhone aspect ratio).

I'm sure they're also going to re-write everything for another aspect ratio as well as for another resolution and introduce either black bars into many apps or crappy solutions like "pan and scan" into others. It's just so... ...Apple.

Fer shure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McDark View Post

Phones and tablets are fundamentally different. For a tablet, it doesn't really matter if it's 5" or 6" wide, so it's not an issue to adopt the optimum aspect ratio for that kind of devise. But for a phone where the 'pocketability' is a large constraining factor, the difference between 2.3" and 2.6" wide is very much an issue. So maybe here, having a thinner aspect ratio is a worthwhile compromise.

Think about it. Two identical sized phones, one has a 3.8" screen at 3:2 and one has a 4.3" screen at 16:9. The latter has all the screen of the former plus a bit extra on the side. That extra space is gravy. A developer doesn't have to use it, but it's there if they want to. Or at least it is for phones from Android affiliated manufacturers. But for the iPhone, it has to do without.

See above.

And, btw, my unabashed dictionary defines "resolution independence" as the fact that no one actually loses weight or quits smoking three weeks after New Years..... ...which is about as accurate as most of the speculation here......

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #107 of 110
3/23/12 at 2:53pm
Which begs the question: WTH doesn't a modern OS support multiple resolutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You're not understanding the difference between the iPod running a Linux-based OS and having no App Store and iOS-based iDevices. YOU CAN'T SWITCH DISPLAY SIZES, RESOLUTIONS, AND ASPECT RATIOS YEAR-OVER-YEAR LIKE THEY DID WITH THE iPOD NANO.


Being a physical button it's possible for the HW to be defective but I have no knowledge of double-clicking only working 50% of the time on iPod Touches, iPhones and iPads. Do you have documentation to back up this claim?

TS is right, you need the HW out. This not negotiable at this time. There is a reason these devices have HW buttons. It certainly wasn't because they couldn't figure out how to make them SW-based.
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post #108 of 110
3/23/12 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which begs the question: WTH doesn't a modern OS support multiple resolutions?

That makes no sense.

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post #109 of 110
3/23/12 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

4.6" iPhone is not going to happen, so your points are moot.

My point is salient and debunked your hypothesis that it's "not a big deal' to put the current 3.5" UI on a 4.6" display.

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post #110 of 110
3/23/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which begs the question: WTH doesn't a modern OS support multiple resolutions?

Why would you want multiple resolutions on a portable device like that? Should there be a HiDPI mode on the iPhone and iPad? How would developers build for that contingency?
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