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Apple and Samsung 'rule the roost' with 90% of mobile industry's profits

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
Apple and Samsung are expected to collectively earn 90 percent of profits in the mobile handset industry this year, with no formidable challengers in sight.

UBS Investment Research published a note on Thursday in which it estimated that Apple and Samsung will enjoy 90 percent of the mobile handset industry's earnings before interest in taxes. In addition, the two companies are said to currently account for more than 50 percent of total industry revenues.

Samsung and Apple's share of profits are expected to grow as Samsung's margins are projected to improve to the high teens. Apple's margins, meanwhile, lead the industry, allowing it to take 75 percent of mobile phone profits with just 9 percent of units sold.

UBS has increased its estimated iPhone sales for Apple's fiscal year 2013 to 156.5 million, up from its prior estimate of 149.5 million. The firm expects that Apple is preparing to build a record number of sixth-generation iPhones for its biggest product launch ever later this year.

"Apple has been consistently accelerating the pace of each successive iPhone launch, expanding both country and carrier rollouts within a shorter timeframe," analyst Maynard Um wrote. "For the iPhone 4S Apple launched in 29 countries within 2 weeks of the initial launch, the iPhone 4 was launched in 2 countries within 6 weeks of launch, and the iPhone 3GS was launched in 14 countries within 1 week of its initial launch."




UBS expects the next iPhone will be a completely redesigned model that will drive a stronger-than-average upgrade cycle for existing iPhone users. The updated hardware is also expected to encourage other smartphone and non-smartphone users to switch to Apple.

The only other handset manufacturers outside of Apple and Samsung that UBS sees making a potential splash in 2012 are Huawei and HTC. As for Nokia, the Finnish handset maker is projected to sell only 2.9 million of its Windows Phone-based Lumia smartphones in the first quarter of the year.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 42
Thanks to Apple's innovation, and the Sammy photocopier.....
post #3 of 42
The final combat will occur between those two. It will be epic ....
post #4 of 42
It's really becoming very hard to see how Windows Phone ever gets anywhere.

I'm starting to wonder if all the tech reviewers who fawn over the Metro interface are just totally out of touch with mainstream consumers. Maybe mainstream consumers look at a bunch of monochromatic boxes with tons of text and feel simultaneously bored and overloaded with information. Maybe consumers really just prefer the simple yet colorful grid of icons approach that Apple has taken and Samsung has aped.

If that's true -- if the failure of WP7 (and the Zune before it) is as much about consumer dislike of the critically acclaimed Metro interface as about first mover advantages and all the rest -- then that also suggests Windows 8 tablets could be a big flop.
post #5 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

It's really becoming very hard to see how Windows Phone ever gets anywhere.

I'm starting to wonder if all the tech reviewers who fawn over the Metro interface are just totally out of touch with mainstream consumers. Maybe mainstream consumers look at a bunch of monochromatic boxes with tons of text and feel simultaneously bored and overloaded with information. Maybe consumers really just prefer the simple yet colorful grid of icons approach that Apple has taken and Samsung has aped.

If that's true -- if the failure of WP7 (and the Zune before it) is as much about consumer dislike of the critically acclaimed Metro interface as about first mover advantages and all the rest -- then that also suggests Windows 8 tablets could be a big flop.

Microsoft made a lot of mistakes with it. As well as being late to launch they restricted themselves to AT&T, then slowly added other vendors. They needed to go the Andriod or Xbox route and get as many vendors and service providers on board as possible, heavily push a couple of loss leaders in order to gain a foothold in the market. Even now they are restricting themselves (high end Lumia only available on AT&T and now delayed another month). It's dumb, but don't think people expected anything different.
post #6 of 42
WP8 is targeted at the enterprise, where MS had a lock in the past. I don't see them making appreciable gains from their current (3rd-party license) phones in the enterprise space.

Enterprises are increasingly moving to the iOS devices, along with a number of BYOD initiatives - which increases the iOS infrastructure.
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post #7 of 42
It was the same the last time this story "broke" - "Apple and Samsung control industry profilts" NOOOO!

Apple controls industry profits, Samsung comes a DISTANT second and most of the others barely break even.
To give Apple and Samsung logical equivalence in this headline is nuts (Apple is 5x Samsung in this).
post #8 of 42
That Q3 dip for Apple and surge for Samsung was a little scary. I wonder what Apple will do this year (if anything) to keep Sammy from having the opportunity again. It really seems like Apple needs semi-annual updates if they want to avoid the dip, but I'm not sure they get as much back in the end from the surge from a major release.

The thing missing from the percentages though is the total $; Q4 is bigger than Q3. With China's surge, Q1 might start to gain some steam as well around Lunar New Year.
post #9 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

Thanks to Apple's innovation, and the Sammy photocopier.....

Thanks to Samsung's technology and manufacturing innovation, and Apple's marketing pull....
post #10 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberzombie View Post

WP8 is targeted at the enterprise, where MS had a lock in the past. I don't see them making appreciable gains from their current (3rd-party license) phones in the enterprise space.

Enterprises are increasingly moving to the iOS devices, along with a number of BYOD initiatives - which increases the iOS infrastructure.

Yeah, I used to think that enterprise IT, particularly the ultra-conservative, head-up-the-a$$, user-hostile variety (which is the kind we have at my employer) would be the natural target for both Windows Phone and Windows Tablets, and that since those folks are *so* loyal to MS, that MS would have a guaranteed big slice of the market.

But now I'm thinking that perhaps the flaw in my logic is that these ultra-conservative IT groups, by definition, do not jump on new products. They are the types of organizations that will only buy new stuff -- even new MS stuff --- after it has become widely adopted. But this is bad new for MS, because without appealing to leading edge buyers, they are unable to ever gain traction, which means their products never become widely adopted, which means that the ultra-conservative IT groups won't buy them.

In short, MS is screwed. They're too late and their products are too unappealing to consumers. Game over.
post #11 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

It's really becoming very hard to see how Windows Phone ever gets anywhere.

The question really comes down to if the "average consumer" sees Windows in a good or bad light. I favored BB's over WinMo for my needs, but I did know a few people who were very loyal to WinMo. If they bought into Android and were disappointed, maybe they will consider switching back.

It is apparently a nice, fresh approach. But, if it is anything like what MS did to Excel with the ribbon interface, I would be more likely to expect pitchforks and torches in Redmond.
post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

It was the same the last time this story "broke" - "Apple and Samsung control industry profilts" NOOOO!

Apple controls industry profits, Samsung comes a DISTANT second and most of the others barely break even.
To give Apple and Samsung logical equivalence in this headline is nuts (Apple is 5x Samsung in this).

more like 4x, but agree that it's somewhat unfair to give the same weight to Samsung.
post #13 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Yeah, I used to think that enterprise IT, particularly the ultra-conservative, head-up-the-a$$, user-hostile variety (which is the kind we have at my employer) would be the natural target for both Windows Phone and Windows Tablets, and that since those folks are *so* loyal to MS, that MS would have a guaranteed big slice of the market.

But now I'm thinking that perhaps the flaw in my logic is that these ultra-conservative IT groups, by definition, do not jump on new products. T

Apple has defined the Tablet space as mini-apps that get the job done, and are often tailored to different vertical markets. MS can't win in that space; how will it sell more Office?
post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

The question really comes down to if the "average consumer" sees Windows in a good or bad light.

Oh this one's easy.

Outside of games and game-boxes, MS has lousy, boring, uninspired mindshare. They have ZERO cachet. They're slow, and they don't understand design or marketing.
All they do is REACT, REACT, and then REACT some more.

Hence, the Rise of Apple, and the slow slide of MS into irrelevance. This aint 1995.
post #15 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

with no formidable challengers in sight.

I wouldn't exactly say that. Sony, Motorola/Google and Nokia/Microsoft are all very large companies. It's hard to believe that they are not going to put up a fight with so much money at stake. They're all churning out some very good phones at the moment and they've all started to adopt an Apple-like "eco system" approach to their phones and content. I simply don't believe that Apple will be able to hang on to 75% of the profits forever.
post #16 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Oh this one's easy.

Outside of games and game-boxes, MS has lousy, boring, uninspired mindshare. They have ZERO cachet. They're slow, and they don't understand design or marketing.
All they do is REACT, REACT, and then REACT some more.

Hence, the Rise of Apple, and the slow slide of MS into irrelevance. This aint 1995.

But yet they still dominate the desktop. A large percentage of people (likely a safe majority) don't want an Apple product for a number of different reasons. They might not *want* a MS product, but they whine that Linux is hard, and they fall prey to the Windows Everywhere mantra.

It is a bad choice in my mind, and I don't understand the logic, but it is pervasive in many groups.

I was working with a very expensive instrument last week, and it used Windows for absolutely no good reason. Legacy is a hard thing to overcome, and little things like .net have a big impact on a number of companies.
post #17 of 42
The correct headline:

Apple 'rules the roost' with 75% of mobile industry profits

And, just wait until the iPhone 5 comes out. Apple is going to have a monster 2H of the year

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post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

The correct headline:

Apple 'rules the roost' with 75% of mobile industry profits

And, just wait until the iPhone 5 comes out. Apple is going to have a monster 2H of the year

Indeed. They're doing so well that it's already out!

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post #19 of 42
Moto can say truthfully that Apple, Samsung & Motorola take 91% of industry profits. Or whatever Moto's profit share is.

Just like Bill Gates' and my combined total earnings this year are mind-boggling.
post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

The correct headline:

Apple 'rules the roost' with 75% of mobile industry profits

And, just wait until the iPhone 5 comes out. Apple is going to have a monster 2H of the year

I agree. I think that adding in the distant second-place entrant dilutes the impact. If Samsung were anywhere close, then by all means.

But if this were a political race, and the stats were the same as here, the second-place guy would be presumed dead. 75% to 15%? That is not even in the same league.
post #21 of 42
Does anyone else find the various shades of blue graphs really annoying and difficult to read. Why didn't they use a few different colours?

Windows Phone will only gain market share if Microsoft decide to heavily subsidise handsets to grab market share, or use substantial revenues from other product lines to heavily advertise like Apple did with the iPod.

The question is, where would the money come from? They have declining desktop OS revenues, declining Office application revenues and it would be hard to see the justification when they need to be more creative on all product lines just to stand still!!

In a way, MicroSoft is an appropriate name. Micro, as in small, relating to the very small market share they will gain and Soft, because they are a very Soft target for iOS and Android to squeeze.

I think there will ultimately be only 2 platforms for smartphones, iOS for the top to middle end, and Android for the lower-middle to bottom end.

I don't think it is about what will Apple come up with for iPhone 5 (or the new iPhone), but what will they come up with for iOS 6 (or the new iOS !?!). User experience is the key to market share. iOS 5.1 is still the best I have seen, but no doubt there is something much better en-route to your device later this year!!
post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

[...] Samsung's margins are projected to improve to the high teens. [...]

Doesn't sound like much compared to Apple's margins.
But Samsung is crushing all other Android hardware partners. Especially LG.
2012 will be the year that the weaker Android hardware partners are weeded out.
They'll go running to Microsoft, who will give them the cold shoulder because Nokia is already their hardware b*tch.

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post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

It's really becoming very hard to see how Windows Phone ever gets anywhere.

I'm starting to wonder if all the tech reviewers who fawn over the Metro interface are just totally out of touch with mainstream consumers. Maybe mainstream consumers look at a bunch of monochromatic boxes with tons of text and feel simultaneously bored and overloaded with information. Maybe consumers really just prefer the simple yet colorful grid of icons approach that Apple has taken and Samsung has aped.

If that's true -- if the failure of WP7 (and the Zune before it) is as much about consumer dislike of the critically acclaimed Metro interface as about first mover advantages and all the rest -- then that also suggests Windows 8 tablets could be a big flop.

You summed up my thoughts exactly.
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post #24 of 42
Title is misleading. Makes it seem as if Samsung's share is anywhere near to Apple's.

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post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Oh this one's easy.

Outside of games and game-boxes, MS has lousy, boring, uninspired mindshare. They have ZERO cachet. They're slow, and they don't understand design or marketing.
All they do is REACT, REACT, and then REACT some more.

Hence, the Rise of Apple, and the slow slide of MS into irrelevance. This aint 1995.

Well, to be fair to MS, Metro is pretty original and it's been very well received by the tech punditry (even pro-Apple pundits like Jon Gruber).

But I wonder if the pundits are just out of touch. Maybe MS has succeeded in coming up with an original design that appeals to design snobs but that does not also appeal to a mass market. The design snobs have historically liked Apple products better than MS/PC products, but the design snobs have also had plenty of criticisms of Apple products. But it strikes me that the things the design snobs criticize Apple for are the types of things that ordinary consumers either (1) really like or (2) are completely indifferent to. One example is the dock on the Mac -- consumers like it, design snobs hate it. Another great example is UI "chrome" in apps like Address Book. A more recent example is the anthropomorphic aspects of Siri.

With Metro, it seems that MS might have gone too far towards the design snobs. They've created this super clean, highly functional, techno-elite UI that crams tons of info into the smallest possible space. Geeks find that highly appealing. But maybe ordinary folks find it cold, boring, and prone to information overload.
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

Thanks to Apple's innovation, and the Sammy photocopier.....

yep. they aren't called Samesung for no reason...they copy everything everyone else does
post #27 of 42
MICROSOFT: First We're Going To Destroy Apple's iPhone In China, Then We're Going To Clobber Google's Android


http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-iphone-android-china-2012-3
post #28 of 42
I vote this as the absolute worst use of color on a graph. Pick colors that are different enough for each so that you can see what you are looking at. Jeesh!
post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Thanks to Samsung's technology and manufacturing innovation, and Apple's marketing pull....

Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.

Yep. Probably all about marketing.
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post #30 of 42
Stop it! You're making Nokia cry!

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post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I wouldn't exactly say that. Sony, Motorola/Google and Nokia/Microsoft are all very large companies. It's hard to believe that they are not going to put up a fight with so much money at stake. They're all churning out some very good phones at the moment and they've all started to adopt an Apple-like "eco system" approach to their phones and content. I simply don't believe that Apple will be able to hang on to 75% of the profits forever.

The problem here is that they don't own their own top to bottom solution. This makes integration and a uniform customer experience very difficult to achieve. Apple has done this for a long time and people (i.e. consumers) are now used to this. Anything less is not seen by most people as a viable option. This is the problem other companies have. There are many more people that don't care about what is in their phones and who makes the phones than those that just want something that is simple to use and works for them. I hate to break this to those who comment here but we are in the extreme minority of those that really buy product. This is why Apple can still sell with high margins and others cannot. Their stuff is simple and does what people want. Ask any non-tech person (most of the world) about this.
post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

The question is, where would the money come from? They have declining desktop OS revenues, declining Office application revenues and it would be hard to see the justification when they need to be more creative on all product lines just to stand still!!

Perhaps from the >$20B annual profit they seem to be managing.

And their revenue overall is not declining:

2009: $58B
2010: $62B
2011: $69B

Their profit has also increased over this time frame. (source: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MSFT&annual). A 18% revenue increase over two years (when the world economy is still not very strong) is nothing to scoff at.

So, don't count them out just yet. They do not have a clear strategy, but a pretty huge war chest and a steady revenue (and profit) stream which gives them a lot of financial flexibility (i.e, they can spend like crazy to try and get in the market).

Now, it is also not at all clear that they will come up with a strategy in the mobile space, but they are far from dead. And even if they don't break into mobile, there is still the very lucrative desktop and server market which will bring in money for quite a while.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.

Yep. Probably all about marketing.


Of course, it is.. Most engineers behind innovation, eg, Woz, don't walk away with millions. It's usually sales / marketing folks who get the vast majority of the cake.
post #34 of 42
My God those charts are insane. Poor Nokia.
post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

I vote this as the absolute worst use of color on a graph. Pick colors that are different enough for each so that you can see what you are looking at. Jeesh!

Yep. But it's not an AI chart, they just reprinted.
post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Well, to be fair to MS, Metro is pretty original and it's been very well received by the tech punditry (even pro-Apple pundits like Jon Gruber).

But I wonder if the pundits are just out of touch. Maybe MS has succeeded in coming up with an original design that appeals to design snobs but that does not also appeal to a mass market. The design snobs have historically liked Apple products better than MS/PC products, but the design snobs have also had plenty of criticisms of Apple products. But it strikes me that the things the design snobs criticize Apple for are the types of things that ordinary consumers either (1) really like or (2) are completely indifferent to. One example is the dock on the Mac -- consumers like it, design snobs hate it. Another great example is UI "chrome" in apps like Address Book. A more recent example is the anthropomorphic aspects of Siri.

With Metro, it seems that MS might have gone too far towards the design snobs. They've created this super clean, highly functional, techno-elite UI that crams tons of info into the smallest possible space. Geeks find that highly appealing. But maybe ordinary folks find it cold, boring, and prone to information overload.

When will this magic happen?

The "new" metro has been out well over a year it's market share has dawdled to almost nowhere, in spite of all the glowing reviews and fairly obvious astroturfing all over the web..

They should rename it to "gonna" as in, gonna do this and gonna do that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Doesn't sound like much compared to Apple's margins.
But Samsung is crushing all other Android hardware partners. Especially LG.
2012 will be the year that the weaker Android hardware partners are weeded out.
They'll go running to Microsoft, who will give them the cold shoulder because Nokia is already their hardware b*tch.

The Chinese are coming, Huawei and ZTE.

They have been quite successful at the bottom of the market, building some brand recognition outside of the network branded handsets they have been concentrating on so far.

They are well funded with money from installing network equipment for phone companies upgrading all over the world.

Watch as they undercut Samsung and beat them at their own game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Stop it! You're making Nokia cry!

They sacked another thousand workers in Finland today.
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post #37 of 42
I must admit, i am really intrigued by Windows 8.

Firstly, its new. REALLY freaking new. as in its "not a bunch of square icons to drag around like every other device" new.

Secondly, why don't Apple and Google allow multitasking windows side by side? Tablets are used a lot in the workplace and having two programs side by side is VERY useful in work situations.

Thirdly, apps. Sure, apple and google have big app stores with about 450,000 apps each but windows has millions. Remember, this will be a windows release, not windows phone. every windows app will work. yes, even the custom ones at your job will work cause its windows.

Fourth (ly?). Upgradable hardware? Why do I have to pay apple for a whole new ipad if all i want is an A5X? Hopefully with a tablet i can just swap in the latest and greatest GPU and keep it moving for a 1/3 rd of the price of buying a whole new tablet which, lets face it, is mostly just a new GPU anyway (especially now that all tablets are going to move to 1920 x 1200 and beyond, won't be much point in increasing PPI anymore except to say "mine's bigger than yours")

Fifthly (how did this post get so long? lol) You won't have to teach people to use two different OS's on their PC and on their tablet/ phone. With iOS and android you have to learn OSX/ Windows and learn iOS/android. Then of course your files don't work across them. The game you bought for your home PC won't run on your tablet....etc. With windows 8 its one OS to rule them all at home and on the road and every file, game, word document, EVERYTHING will work EVERYWHERE.


EDIT: was just made aware than Samsung will release a tablet that runs apps side by side. But since its not out yet (i think) my point stands

Quite interested to see how this turns out.
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

I must admit, i am really intrigued by Windows 8.

Firstly, its new. REALLY freaking new. as in its "not a bunch of square icons to drag around like every other device" new.

Throwing up onto the front of a tablet would be really freaking new, too. That doesn't make it any good.

I still haven't seen any sign that Windows 8 offers any advantages, and the demo is a mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

ISecondly, why don't Apple and Google allow multitasking windows side by side? Tablets are used a lot in the workplace and having two programs side by side is VERY useful in work situations.

Google will be allowing that soon.

Apple doesn't do it on a tablet because it wastes battery power and offers very few advantages. Why in the world do you need two apps running side-by-side on a tablet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

IThirdly, apps. Sure, apple and google have big app stores with about 450,000 apps each but windows has millions. Remember, this will be a windows release, not windows phone. every windows app will work. yes, even the custom ones at your job will work cause its windows.

Two problems:
1. Since you're talking about tablets, it will be an ARM device - and won't run legacy apps.
2. Most of those apps aren't designed for tablets and won't be of much use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

IFourth (ly?). Upgradable hardware? Why do I have to pay apple for a whole new ipad if all i want is an A5X? Hopefully with a tablet i can just swap in the latest and greatest GPU and keep it moving for a 1/3 rd of the price of buying a whole new tablet which, lets face it, is mostly just a new GPU anyway (especially now that all tablets are going to move to 1920 x 1200 and beyond, won't be much point in increasing PPI anymore except to say "mine's bigger than yours")

What in the world makes you think you're going to be able to swap the CPU and/or GPU in a tablet? For that to be practical, you'd need a tablet that's far thicker and heavier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

IFifthly (how did this post get so long? lol) You won't have to teach people to use two different OS's on their PC and on their tablet/ phone. With iOS and android you have to learn OSX/ Windows and learn iOS/android. Then of course your files don't work across them. The game you bought for your home PC won't run on your tablet....etc. With windows 8 its one OS to rule them all at home and on the road and every file, game, word document, EVERYTHING will work EVERYWHERE.

Files are not an issue. First, most people aren't using their desktop files on their tablet, other than videos and jogs - which will work fine. Then, it's possible to open most files, anyway. And in the rare cases where you might have a problem, you can simply use LogMeIn or BackToMyMac.

Interface? It must be a shame to be incapable of remembering how to use a tablet and a desktop. More importantly, there are differences in the UI for a reason. You don't interact with a tablet the same way you interact with a PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

IEDIT: was just made aware than Samsung will release a tablet that runs apps side by side. But since its not out yet (i think) my point stands

Quite interested to see how this turns out.

Since side-by-side apps on a tablet will be out long before Windows 8 tablets, your point doesn't stand.
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post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

Thanks to Apple's innovation, and the Sammy photocopier.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Thanks to Samsung's technology and manufacturing innovation, and Apple's marketing pull....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yeah, that must be it. That explains why Apple is getting 75% of the industry's profits and none of the competitors' products come even close to Apple's in customer satisfaction.

Yep. Probably all about marketing.

There's a bit of truth of all of y'all's comments. Together, they paint almost the right picture. But, of course, none of y'all will admit it.
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

They sacked another thousand workers in Finland today.

Are you sure, the report I read said they announced it, major difference
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