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post #121 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

<opens box of cheeze-it crackers>

cheez-its? c'mon! Gold fish are WAY better!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #122 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Actually, you're not very consistent at all. Why don't we need the other things that Hong Kong has, like strictly enforced borders and emigration policy, less regulation, and lower taxes (to name a few)?

You mean immigration policy. Actually, the immigration policy of Hong Kong is pretty open. It was easy for me to settle here and become a permanent resident. Likewise for mainlanders, probably the closest analogy to Mexican immigrants in our system.

Hong Kong does not have less regulation. That's a myth.

We have a health department that shuts down restaurants just like you do. We have regulation of firearms where you don't. We have districting and property restrictions and building codes (it's actually a big issue right now). We ban pornography, FFS. We have safety regulations for employment and housing and an employment ordinance and a mandatory provident fund for all workers. We have education policy and set curricula and we BAN home schooling. We have trade regulation, banking regulation, you name it.

You really don't know much about Hong Kong, do you?
post #123 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

and we BAN home schooling

You must be thrilled! Would you want this same policy in the US also?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #124 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And I'm a citizen of the United States of America PERIOD, and I get a say. PERIOD.

Don't be shocked when others don't listen to your say or consider your say to be uninformed or hypocritical. That is the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I don't want the right. I have the right, so fuck you. And I do contribute plenty. You just refuse to see it. Or you're incapable of seeing it.

What do you contribute as an expatriate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

We all get it.

You want authority without responsibility or consequences. You want the "right" to use your vote to compel others to pay higher taxes that you're unwilling to pay yourself. You want the "right" to use your vote to declare how that collected money is spent without actually contributing any of your own.

Your hypocrisy is plain for all to see.

Exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The US should absolutely not play the role it does militarily, for one.

And economically? The US is a DEBTOR. The US is an economic LEECH on the world.

The U.S. could easily put it's house in order but folks like you and your ilk keep voting for debt and dependency. Your vote for Obama has cost us about $5 trillion. You are sheltered from the ramifications of your own decisions by living abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Taxes in Hong Kong are enough to pay for our spending. Our spending pays for the stuff we need.

You're constantly suggesting that the US stop paying for the stuff we need there, so that taxes can be cut.

That's idiotic.

Stop paying for the stuff we don't need, first.

I agree. One of the first cuts we should make is tax credits for expatriates who pay foreign taxes and thus demand credit for those taxes against their U.S. taxes. They want to exist in two societies, let them be double taxed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And you're telling me to shut up about what the US should do with our resources. You're telling me what to do. Even though I have a legal and moral right to do so.

The reality is you vote for bad choices and are sheltered from those bad choices. I've said a half dozen time if you had to live under your choices, you'd change them. That is the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

He's not telling you to shut up, he's calling you a hypocrite.

Exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

1. I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy which becomes more obvious with every word you speak, so you might want to shut up.
2. The resources aren't "ours"...there is no "we" that involves you. You collectivists think you just get to declare stuff to be "ours" and it is so. Nope.
3. You may have a "legal" right but I see no moral right at all. In fact, I consider it profoundly immoral to compel others to do what you want them to do and even more so when it is something you're not doing and unwilling to do yourself.

He basically straddles a line and takes advantage of both sides. Those of us who don't straddle that line don't care to listen to him.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #125 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Not at all. You seem to have a regular comprehension problem here.

So please explain to me the basis for your assumption that I am unwilling to pay higher taxes in order to have a responsible social policy? Your response was that I was living in Hong Kong and taking advantage of low taxes here.

Seems it's you with the comprehension problem. Or just plain logic.
post #126 of 219
These cheeze it crackers are excellent. What a snack to watch tonton get utterly destroyed on a beautiful Monday afternoon

<soda>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #127 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

So please explain to me the basis for your assumption that I am unwilling to pay higher taxes in order to have a responsible social policy? Your response was that I was living in Hong Kong and taking advantage of low taxes here.

Seems it's you with the comprehension problem. Or just plain logic.

I claim that because you're not paying more taxes. You are free to do so. You are also free to give 50% (or more) of your income to the causes like providing healthcare or transportation or education for people. No one is stopping you from doing these things.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #128 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You mean immigration policy. Actually, the immigration policy of Hong Kong is pretty open. It was easy for me to settle here and become a permanent resident. Likewise for mainlanders, probably the closest analogy to Mexican immigrants in our system.

Hong Kong does not have less regulation. That's a myth.

We have a health department that shuts down restaurants just like you do. We have regulation of firearms where you don't. We have districting and property restrictions and building codes (it's actually a big issue right now). We ban pornography, FFS. We have safety regulations for employment and housing and an employment ordinance and a mandatory provident fund for all workers. We have education policy and set curricula and we BAN home schooling. We have trade regulation, banking regulation, you name it.

You really don't know much about Hong Kong, do you?


It seems NPR disagrees with you.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #129 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I agree. One of the first cuts we should make is tax credits for expatriates who pay foreign taxes and thus demand credit for those taxes against their U.S. taxes. They want to exist in two societies, let them be double taxed.

LMFAO! You really don't get it, do you?

1. The us cuts tax treaties, then all the other countries do as well.
2. The US earns more in taxes from foreign workers in the US than US expatriates pay in taxes overseas. MUCH MORE.

So what you're proposing not only would harm diplomatic relations, but it would reduce US tax income, as foreign people stop coming to the US to work (And pay taxes) and US companies stop sending people overseas to work, and trade is absolutely destroyed. North Korea here we come! What fun!
post #130 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

LMFAO! You really don't get it, do you?

1. The us cuts tax treaties, then all the other countries do as well.
2. The US earns more in taxes from foreign workers in the US than US expatriates pay in taxes overseas. MUCH MORE.

So what you're proposing not only would harm diplomatic relations, but it would reduce US tax income, as foreign people stop coming to the US to work (And pay taxes) and US companies stop sending people overseas to work, and trade is absolutely destroyed. North Korea here we come! What fun!

Wait a second. Changes in tax policy affect people's behavior? Whodathunkit.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #131 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


It seems NPR disagrees with you.

Seems you have a SERIOUS comprehension problem. Aside from a backlash against visiting mainland mothers giving birth here, what on Earth does that article have to do with immigration policy?
post #132 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You mean immigration policy. Actually, the immigration policy of Hong Kong is pretty open. It was easy for me to settle here and become a permanent resident. Likewise for mainlanders, probably the closest analogy to Mexican immigrants in our system.

Hong Kong does not have less regulation. That's a myth.

We have a health department that shuts down restaurants just like you do. We have regulation of firearms where you don't. We have districting and property restrictions and building codes (it's actually a big issue right now). We ban pornography, FFS. We have safety regulations for employment and housing and an employment ordinance and a mandatory provident fund for all workers. We have education policy and set curricula and we BAN home schooling. We have trade regulation, banking regulation, you name it.

You really don't know much about Hong Kong, do you?

I don't presume to know more about Hong Kong than you do. I don't live there. But I didn't say Hong Kong was not regulated at all, just less regulated than the States.

Do you know how long it takes to get a business license and incorporate in Hong Kong? 4-7 working days.

In the U.S.? It depends on the city, but in New York City it takes from 2 weeks to several months just to get a business license.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #133 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I claim that because you're not paying more taxes. You are free to do so. You are also free to give 50% (or more) of your income to the causes like providing healthcare or transportation or education for people. No one is stopping you from doing these things.

Sorry, but I'm with Warren Buffett on this one. It's not whether we give independently. It's whether we implement a fair policy where everyone gives. Otherwise, our independent contribution is nothing. There's no way independent contribution can balance the budget.
post #134 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


It seems NPR disagrees with you.

Wow. I can only imagine how folks in the US would react to people in the US doing something like this:

Quote:
A few days later, during an "anti-locust rally," young Hong Kong activists targeted tourists from mainland China in an unusual way, serenading them with an offensive song called "Locust World."

The lyrics accuse mainlanders of being "experts in stealing, cheating, deceiving and lying," and ask, "Don't you have shame? Squatting on the street, lighting a cigarette, allowing your baby to defecate all over the place."

And this is exactly the same kind of concern that exists in the US:

Quote:
Even pregnant women are protesting, about an issue at the very crux of the debate. Last year, mainland mothers accounted for 40 percent of the births in Hong Kong.

This gives their babies Hong Kong residency — and eligibility for publicly funded schooling and medical care, which many fear will further strain already scarce resources. It also heightens the fears of a longer-term influx of mainlanders, who speak Mandarin predominantly, rather than Cantonese.

The parallels are amazing.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #135 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

In the U.S.? It depends on the city, but in New York City it takes from 2 weeks to several months just to get a business license.

That's not regulation. That's inefficient bureaucracy. There's a vast difference, you know.

I'm all for fixing the bureaucracy.
post #136 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Sorry, but I'm with Warren Buffett on this one. It's not whether we give independently. It's whether we implement a fair policy where everyone gives. Otherwise, our independent contribution is nothing. There's no way independent contribution can balance the budget.

No, I get it: It's not whether you pay more...it whether everyone else pays what you think they should pay.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #137 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Sorry, but I'm with Warren Buffett on this one. It's not whether we give independently. It's whether we implement a fair policy where everyone gives. Otherwise, our independent contribution is nothing. There's no way independent contribution can balance the budget.

Yes, Warren Buffett is a hypocrite, too.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #138 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Yes, Warren Buffett is a hypocrite, too.

Pretty much. He's calling for higher taxes that he would not end up paying. If for no other reason because he'll be dead.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #139 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Yes, Warren Buffett is a hypocrite, too.

No, you are. You're claiming the only reason I push for higher taxes is because I don't have to pay them (which is false).

What's Warren Buffett's reason? Why doesn't every rich businessman have the same reason then?
post #140 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Pretty much. He's calling for higher taxes that he would not end up paying. If for no other reason because he'll be dead.

Oh he's got a few good decades in him. And progeny. I guess he doesn't care about them.

Rupert Murdoch will die long before Warren Buffett does.
post #141 of 219
So tonton, I'm curious. Would you also ban home schooling in the US? I ask because you mentioned as one of the many wonderful things in HK.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #142 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh he's got a few good decades in him. And progeny. I guess he doesn't care about them.

A few decades? I wouldn't bet on ONE more decade.

I have no doubt he's structured things for any inheritors to avoid as much taxation as possible.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #143 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

That's not regulation. That's inefficient bureaucracy. There's a vast difference, you know.

I'm all for fixing the bureaucracy.

Regulation is not the same as bureaucracy?

From the NYC website:

Quote:
For some DCA-licensed businesses, if all requirements are in order, your application will be processed immediately at the DCA Licensing Center. You should receive your license in about two weeks. For applications that require inspections or approvals from other City agencies, such as the Buildings, Fire, or Transportation departments, those requiring a DCA qualifying examination, or those requiring a fingerprint check, approval can take from two weeks to several months.

Hong Kong's economic freedom has nothing to do with the fact that it has low taxes and less regulations. They're just more efficient at processing business license applications.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #144 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Seems you have a SERIOUS comprehension problem. Aside from a backlash against visiting mainland mothers giving birth here, what on Earth does that article have to do with immigration policy?

What does it have to do when the article notes that mainlanders are making up 40% of the births which means ever more rights and payouts to people who claim those rights. It also notes the cultural disconnect, in otherwords paying money to people who do not share the same values or feel the need to honor the same social contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't presume to know more about Hong Kong than you do. I don't live there. But I didn't say Hong Kong was not regulated at all, just less regulated than the States.

Do you know how long it takes to get a business license and incorporate in Hong Kong? 4-7 working days.

In the U.S.? It depends on the city, but in New York City it takes from 2 weeks to several months just to get a business license.

He fails to notice that all the places the bureaucracy happens to be so big and unfixable just happen to be blue states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Wow. I can only imagine how folks in the US would react to people in the US doing something like this:

And this is exactly the same kind of concern that exists in the US:

The parallels are amazing.

Exactly and the point is when this is addressed, when these mainlanders want their children to push his own child out of the way, there is no way he would take it lying down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, you are. You're claiming the only reason I push for higher taxes is because I don't have to pay them (which is false).

What's Warren Buffett's reason? Why doesn't every rich businessman have the same reason then?

So are you claiming to be the one percent? All the tax increases here have been aimed at the 1%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So tonton, I'm curious. Would you also ban home schooling in the US? I ask because you mentioned as one of the many wonderful things in HK.

He'd be too busy enlightening all the 12 year olds as to what they are going to do with their vagina's regardless of what their actual choices may be. He will be busy forcing them to take HPV vaccines to protect the herd.

I wonder how Hong Kong is going to cleanly careful and provide for the 40% increase (minimum) in new citizens they will start having in a few years. I wonder if he will support giving said citizens benefits not only to support them but their mainlander parents who likely won't qualify but should be their to help raise their child and thus need something. I wonder what will happen when the schools want his child to learn something different to accommodate the new students. Let's see how he feels when it comes down on his kid.

Are you going to let your child pledge loyalty to the Communist Party tonton?

NYTimes.com

Quote:
Maggie Wong, 31, an office clerk and lifelong Hong Kong resident who had twins eight months ago, said she felt pushed aside by mainland couples. Three and a half months into her pregnancy, Ms. Wong said, she tried to schedule delivery at the public hospital near her home, “but they said there were so many mainland mothers that the beds were all full.” So she went to a private hospital, though it meant spending her husband’s life savings and borrowing from his parents.

“I am a citizen of Hong Kong. I pay Hong Kong taxes,” she said. “I kept thinking, ‘What is this? How can this be?’ Of course it creates bad feelings.”

Just write her a check out of your savings tonton. Better still write it out of your daughter's savings. Just take out a nice credit card, cash advance it to pay her and then your daughter can pay it off when she goes to work. That's exactly what your vote for Obama is doing for American children.

Telegraph.co.uk

Quote:
But the mainlanders who arouse by far the most ire are the women like Shu Yan, the so-called "birth tourists" who come to Hong Kong solely to have their children. They do so because of a 2001 ruling by the territory's highest court which gives all babies born in Hong Kong the right to residency and a Hong Kong passport.

This clearly is just getting started.

Quote:
Three-quarters of the 44,000 mainland women who gave birth in Hong Kong last year did so in private clinics, making it difficult for locals to find a bed even if they are prepared to pay.

The remainder have their babies in the city's over-stretched public hospitals. In January, the local government bowed to public anger over the issue, cutting the quota of mainland women allowed to do so by almost two-thirds to 3,400. But more than 1,200 mainland women in 2011 did not bother to book any hospital.

They waited across the border until they went into labour, before jumping in a taxi and heading into Hong Kong to give birth at the nearest A&E department.

"I want my child to go to school in Hong Kong because the education system here is better than in China," said Mrs Shi, 31, a heavily-pregnant mainlander sitting in the obstetrics deparment at the Baptist Hospital in Hong Kong's Kowloon district. "I know Hong Kong people are upset about people from the mainland coming here to use the hospitals, but it is legal so I don't see why it is a problem."

Most Hong Kong women, though, disagree. Ida Sze, a pregnant 32-year-old jewellery buyer who has had to wait four months to see a doctor, is one of them. "I think the government needs to find a way to solve this problem," she said. "It doesn't just affect mothers, it affects the education system because there aren't enough school places and it puts the whole welfare system under strain."

A fraying social safety net due to extensive need and use related to influx of new people. Why I've never heard of that happening. Why soon some of those heartless assholes will probably want to take their money and keep it to pay for their private services since they are getting less benefit from the public services due to those who abuse the rules.

Chicago Tribune

Quote:
Leung beat a scandal-tainted rival, tycoon and former bureaucrat Henry Tang, in a contest on Sunday decided by a 1,200-member election committee of business professionals, tycoons and Beijing loyalists.

Why in Hong Kong, only those with skin in the game even get to pick the leader.

Quote:
INFLATION, POLLUTION

Leung faces a list of problems in Hong Kong including high levels of pollution, soaring property inflation that has fueled a widening wealth gap and global economic headwinds.

Well let's not worry about those. Let's just have about 4 million or so mainlanders straddle the fence and claim the goodies they want from Hong Kong with their citizenship but still also keep whatever they want and demand from mainland China. The little people who get hurt in the middle, they are just racist assholes who aren't sophisticated enough to realize why they should be ripped off.

Better still let's triple his and her energy costs to make sure they properly fund the green technologies that might attempt to make all these mainlander citizens and their needs possible. I'm sure they will avoid those costs by using dirty energy on the mainland and just wander over when it is time to collect a right or benefit.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #145 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Sorry, but I'm with Warren Buffett on this one. It's not whether we give independently. It's whether we implement a fair policy where everyone gives. Otherwise, our independent contribution is nothing. There's no way independent contribution can balance the budget.

Right, except you don't support fair polices. You support policies where only the rich get soaked. The almost rich pay dearly, as does upper middle class. Everyone else pays nothing and gets free everything.
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post #146 of 219
Thread Starter 
Frank777- "The answer, of course, is no. The private sector, disciplined by investor capital and supplemented by government-funded university research is more than capable of getting this tech to market."

But it can get this tech to market quicker, with government support, and therefore help create good paying jobs and all the green benefits, which are considerable, given the cost of healthcare and losses to businesses in a nuclear leak.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #147 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Frank777- "The answer, of course, is no. The private sector, disciplined by investor capital and supplemented by government-funded university research is more than capable of getting this tech to market."

But it can get this tech to market quicker, with government support, and therefore help create good paying jobs and all the green benefits, which are considerable, given the cost of healthcare and losses to businesses in a nuclear leak.

The government has nothing to offer that it does not first take from individuals. The government cannot create. At best, it can only redistribute property and resources. Most of the time, it destroys property and resources.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #148 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The government has nothing to offer that it does not first take from individuals. The government cannot create. At best, it can only redistribute property and resources. Most of the time, it destroys property and resources.

Maybe in an ideal world the benefits of keeping nearly all our incomes would provide better results than the current system. But given how business today works, I think Green business is an obvious choice for our affections.

Here's a graph though, showing the current attitudes - http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/.../spending1.png,
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #149 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't presume to know more about Hong Kong than you do. I don't live there. But I didn't say Hong Kong was not regulated at all, just less regulated than the States.

Do you know how long it takes to get a business license and incorporate in Hong Kong? 4-7 working days.

In the U.S.? It depends on the city, but in New York City it takes from 2 weeks to several months just to get a business license.

"Business licenses are permits issued by government agencies that allow individuals or companies to conduct business within the government's geographical jurisdiction. It is the authorization to start a business issued by the local government. A single jurisdiction often requires multiple licenses that are issued by multiple government departments and agencies. Business licenses vary between countries, states, and local municipalities. There are often many licenses, registrations and certifications required to conduct a business in a single location. These are not needed for sole proprietorships.
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_license
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #150 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Maybe in an ideal world the benefits of keeping nearly all our incomes would provide better results than the current system. But given how business today works, I think Green business is an obvious choice for our affections.

Who's "affections?"

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #151 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"Business licenses are permits issued by government agencies that allow individuals or companies to conduct business within the government's geographical jurisdiction. It is the authorization to start a business issued by the local government. A single jurisdiction often requires multiple licenses that are issued by multiple government departments and agencies. Business licenses vary between countries, states, and local municipalities. There are often many licenses, registrations and certifications required to conduct a business in a single location. These are not needed for sole proprietorships.
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_license

The real question is why are these needed?

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post #152 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The real question is why are these needed?


I don't know either. But, a few weeks would be nothing to a company that's already up and running.

Maybe this is primarily why- "The fee for a Special Event license such as a marathon is $209. The license for a movie theater costs $1,079 per year, for a grocery store $289 per year, for a beauty shop $78 per year." ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_license
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #153 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't know either. But, a few weeks would be nothing to a company that's already up and running.

Agreed. But it seems like a good idea to eliminate any and all unnecessary friction. The point here is the government is putting up speed bumps.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #154 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Who's "affections?"

The taxpayer who wants positive change.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #155 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Agreed. But it seems like a good idea to eliminate any and all unnecessary friction. The point here is the government is putting up speed bumps.

As is the nature of government all too often.


The fact is that it takes more than access to capital to further progress in different fields, especially new energy sources, and other advanced technologies. Without government support, from laws to funding, many important businesses and developments wouldn't happen. Government is too big, but that doesn't mean it's not still vital.
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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #156 of 219
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Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

As is the nature of government all too often.


The fact is that it takes more than access to capital to further progress in different fields, especially new energy sources, and other advanced technologies. Without government support, from laws to funding, many important businesses and developments wouldn't happen. Government is too big, but that doesn't mean it's not still vital.

You have a tough road to hoe in making that case. Government does not make things legal...it makes them illegal. And government funding comes from the taxpayer, so we need to choose priorities carefully. Medical and scientific research through universities should be priority, as should national infrastructure. But venture capital into private firms? No.

Government regulations also cost far more than you cited in this thread. For example, Obama's new regulations alone cost a total of $46 billion. I know people in business, and the amount of regulations that business face is staggering. Just the paperwork requirements alone are overwhelming.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #157 of 219
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Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The taxpayer who wants positive change.

And why not simply invest yourself, privately and leave taxpayers out of it?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #158 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The fact is that it takes more than access to capital to further progress in different fields,

Of course. I haven't claimed otherwise. However...you go too far...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Without government support, from laws to funding, many important businesses and developments wouldn't happen.

I completely disagree. Nearly all of the major innovations and advancements in our world have come from the private sector and even if they didn't (the internet is the classic example some give) they almost certainly would have without government support if it was a desired and necessary innovation.

I can't think of any kind of research that truly requires government support in order to advance.

But put more simply, this is not even the role of government. The role of government is to protect the life, liberty and property of its citizens. Period. Anything beyond that is superfluous and risks actually violating that first and primary responsibility.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #159 of 219
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Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The real question is why are these needed?

Do you ever wonder why brand new buildings and bridges collapse in China?
post #160 of 219
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Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Do you ever wonder why brand new buildings and bridges collapse in China?

No. But I do wonder how you think licensing someone to business has anything to do with buildings and bridges collapsing.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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