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post #201 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Nice short video on US oil production- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn6w7...eature=related

No, that's a video on hydrofracking.
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post #202 of 219
Thread Starter 
Republican elites coming down hard on renewables-


Boner- "Two weeks ago, Chairman Upton at the Energy & Commerce Committee began looking into the Department of Energys Section 1603 grant program, a Solyndra-style stimulus program that offers cash payments to renewable energy companies. More than $10 billion thats with a b $10 billion has been spent on this, and Secretary Chu said it created tens of thousands of jobs, except theres no evidence to support that.

Facts- "Speaker Boehner seems to think that this program hasnt created any jobs. This simply doesnt make any sense. More than 5,000 projects were built with Section 1603 reimbursements. Obviously, wind farms and solar arrays dont appear out of thin air: people build them. And, people build the parts that go into them. And, people build the factories where those parts are made. All of these jobs are real jobs, and they all matter. As an example of how these jobs add up, a study by EuPD Research found that extending the Section 1603 program for one year would create 37,000 jobs in the solar sector alone.

This program has also brought many billions of dollars off of the sidelines and into clean energy investments. Each $1 in reimbursements must be matched by more than $2 in private capital. This means that the Section 1603 program leveraged more than $20 billion.

Despite Speaker Boehners bluster, its clear that the Section 1603 program has been a responsible, cost-effective success. Boehner doesnt even have any new information that would suggest otherwise, so its clear that this is just another fishing expedition led by the House Republicans. We saw what happened with the Solyndra investigation. Why are we wasting more time and money with this made up problem? Especially when the program was an unqualified success!"
~ http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/0...energy-grants/
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #203 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Republican elites coming down hard on renewables-


Boner- "Two weeks ago, Chairman Upton at the Energy & Commerce Committee began looking into the Department of Energys Section 1603 grant program, a Solyndra-style stimulus program that offers cash payments to renewable energy companies. More than $10 billion thats with a b $10 billion has been spent on this, and Secretary Chu said it created tens of thousands of jobs, except theres no evidence to support that.

Facts- "Speaker Boehner seems to think that this program hasnt created any jobs. This simply doesnt make any sense. More than 5,000 projects were built with Section 1603 reimbursements. Obviously, wind farms and solar arrays dont appear out of thin air: people build them. And, people build the parts that go into them. And, people build the factories where those parts are made. All of these jobs are real jobs, and they all matter. As an example of how these jobs add up, a study by EuPD Research found that extending the Section 1603 program for one year would create 37,000 jobs in the solar sector alone.

This program has also brought many billions of dollars off of the sidelines and into clean energy investments. Each $1 in reimbursements must be matched by more than $2 in private capital. This means that the Section 1603 program leveraged more than $20 billion.

Despite Speaker Boehners bluster, its clear that the Section 1603 program has been a responsible, cost-effective success. Boehner doesnt even have any new information that would suggest otherwise, so its clear that this is just another fishing expedition led by the House Republicans. We saw what happened with the Solyndra investigation. Why are we wasting more time and money with this made up problem? Especially when the program was an unqualified success!"
~ http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/0...energy-grants/


Well this settles it. Obama's green every venture capitalism is an unqualified success.
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post #204 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Well this settles it. Obama's green every venture capitalism is an unqualified success.

Profit is not the main motivator behind green energy initiatives.
post #205 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Profit is not the main motivator behind green energy initiatives.

I never claimed it was.
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post #206 of 219
Thread Starter 
0-60 in less than 3 seconds and it blows past the competition too on its green credentials with less than 99g/km CO2- http://www.media.c-x75.com/
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #207 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

0-60 in less than 3 seconds and it blows past the competition too on its green credentials with less than 99g/km CO2- http://www.media.c-x75.com/

It'll never see the light of day.
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post #208 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It'll never see the light of day.

What makes you say that?

They've made plans to make 250.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #209 of 219
Thread Starter 
YES WE volCANo-

"The volcanoes of Iceland could soon be pumping low-carbon electricity into the UK under government-backed plans for thousands of miles of high-voltage cables across the ocean floor.

The energy minister, Charles Hendry, is to visit Iceland in May to discuss connecting the UK to its abundant geothermal energy. "We are in active discussions with the Icelandic government and they are very keen," Hendry told the Guardian. To reach Iceland, which sits over a mid-ocean split in the earth's crust, the cable would have to be 1,000 to 1,500km long and by far the longest in the world.

Interconnector cables can be laid very rapidly – at over 30km a day – but remain significant engineering projects, with each kilometre containing 800 tonnes of copper."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...no-green-power
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #210 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

YES WE volCANo-

"The volcanoes of Iceland could soon be pumping low-carbon electricity into the UK under government-backed plans for thousands of miles of high-voltage cables across the ocean floor.

The energy minister, Charles Hendry, is to visit Iceland in May to discuss connecting the UK to its abundant geothermal energy. "We are in active discussions with the Icelandic government and they are very keen," Hendry told the Guardian. To reach Iceland, which sits over a mid-ocean split in the earth's crust, the cable would have to be 1,000 to 1,500km long and by far the longest in the world.

Interconnector cables can be laid very rapidly at over 30km a day but remain significant engineering projects, with each kilometre containing 800 tonnes of copper."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...no-green-power

Or they could just use proven technology that has zero CO2 emissions.
post #211 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Or they could just use proven technology that has zero CO2 emissions.

Nothing yet has zero CO2. Nuclear emits 8 times more CO2 per kW/h than wind turbines and wind turbines aren't zero CO2.

Speaking of wind turbines-

"A major new study has quashed fears that onshore windfarms are causing long-term damage to bird populations, but found new evidence that some species are harmed when windfarms are built.

The study by conservationists into the impacts on 10 of the key species of British upland bird, including several suffering serious population declines, concluded that a large majority of species can co-exist or thrive with windfarms once they are operating.

"It shows that there can be serious species-level impacts in the construction phase, so construction in the right place is absolutely key. But what it hasn't shown is that windfarms are 'bird blenders'. There is no impact from the turning of the blades," said Martin Harper, the RSPB's UK conservation director."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...rd-populations
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #212 of 219
Isn't it funny how when you talk about wind turbines, conservatives are NOW suddenly concerned about a few birds? This is especially ironic when they have no problem destroying mountains for coal. It's as if they want to watch the world burn.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #213 of 219
Killing birds with wind turbines = good. Coal mining = bad. Got it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #214 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Isn't it funny how when you talk about wind turbines, conservatives are NOW suddenly concerned about a few birds? This is especially ironic when they have no problem destroying mountains for coal. It's as if they want to watch the world burn.

You say this while living in a state in which farmland lays fallow due to a fish and solar projects cannot move forward due to a tortoise.

Why are those concerns valid?

The real reason is that those folks supposedly have the proper "INTENTIONS" and of course just want to see humans suffer and by suffer I mean suffering more deeply than having to spend $9 on their birth control pills.

As for watching the planet burn, George Carlin, an atheist and certainly someone of similar beliefs would call your claims pure BULLSHIT.

Quote:
"We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these fucking people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the fucking planet?
I'm getting tired of that shit. Tired of that shit. I'm tired of fucking Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fucked. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your shit, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole.

So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while."

George is a little tired of you BR.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #215 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Killing birds with wind turbines = good. Coal mining = bad. Got it.

Nope. Just pointing out right wing hypocrisy. They overstate an environmental impact of a clean energy source while ignoring the true damage of their preferred dirty one. Sounds fishy. Sounds politically motivated.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #216 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Nope. Just pointing out right wing hypocrisy. They overstate an environmental impact of a clean energy source while ignoring the true damage of their preferred dirty one. Sounds fishy. Sounds politically motivated.

And downplaying the impact of wind turbines on the environment is not fishy or politically motivated. Got it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #217 of 219
It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than coal.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #218 of 219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Isn't it funny how when you talk about wind turbines, conservatives are NOW suddenly concerned about a few birds? This is especially ironic when they have no problem destroying mountains for coal. It's as if they want to watch the world burn.

Pesticides kill about 72 million a year. People don't like it in their water either.

And yet...

"Facing what appears to be stiff opposition from Senate Democrats as a deadline closes in, House Republicans are trying a new legislative tactic to advance legislation that would exempt pesticide users who spray over water from obtaining a permit under the Clean Water Act: They've tacked it on to an appropriations bill.

In the fiscal 2012 budget for U.S. EPA released earlier this week, House Republicans included H.R. 872 -- a controversial measure aimed at undoing a 2009 federal appeals court ruling that required EPA to issue permits for such pesticide users."
~ http://www.eenews.net/public/EEDaily/2011/07/08/1



Man-made structure/technology associated bird deaths per year (U.S.):


Feral and domestic cats - Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]

( "A recent study in Wisconsin estimated that in that state
alone, domestic rural cats kill roughly 39 million birds annually. Add the deaths caused by feral cats, or domestic cats in urban and suburban areas, and this mortality figure would be much higher." ~ http://www.fws.gov/birds/mortality-fact-sheet.pdf )

Power lines - 130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]

Windows (residential and commercial)- 100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]

Pesticides -70 million [source: AWEA]

Automobiles - 60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]

Lighted communication towers - 40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]

Wind turbines - 10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]
~ http://science.howstuffworks.com/env...kill-birds.htm
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #219 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

What makes you say that?

They've made plans to make 250.

And GM planned on selling hundreds of thousands of Volts.
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