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post #81 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I directly paid taxes in the USA in 2011 and 2012.

Well then I'm wrong*. You'll forgive me since when I asked you a direct question on this point previously you evaded it to the point where the only conclusion one could arrive at was that you were not paying US taxes and were trying to pretend you were by taking credit for other people paying US taxes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Regardless, as a citizen, the money is as much mine as it is yours.

I disagree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

On this point, you're selfish, plain and simple.

Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that I think someone who isn't paying into the pool is a hypocrite when prattling on how about that money should be spent, calling it "we" and "ours" and calling for higher taxes that he or she won't have to pay.


*I'm curious how much. Given your previous attempts to claim other taxpayer's payments as your own, I'll bet almost nothing or, as trumptman noted, whatever you paid got credited back to you in a transaction that effectively means you paid nothing (or almost nothing).

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post #82 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I really feel sorry for his wife. I can only imagine how she feels to have strictly separate accounts and no voice in family financial matters that involve his own hard earned income (according to his logic regarding my right to discuss the financial matters of my country).

Doesn't matter, I guess, because his scripture actually says that she has no business in those matters anyway and that it is her duty to raise children and maintain the home.

Kind of like a maid you get to fuck and who bears your children for you. Even better since you don't have to pay her.

I'm sure BR endorses this post.

And, in typical leftist fashion, you immediately get personal when losing the point. When disagreeing on some point I must be a (presumably ignorant and poorly educated) home school student. When disagreeing on another I must be an abusive and hateful husband. And so it goes. And, yes, I'm quite sure BR does endorse your post.

The simple fact is that someone who consistently claims "us" and "we" and "our" to claim co-ownership of something they themselves are not funding or contributing to is a hypocrite. Someone who consistently calls for higher taxes they themselves will not be required to pay and more laws and regulations they will not be required to live under is a hypocrite.

If you have indeed directly paid US taxes of any significant amount, then I apologize. You, of course, had the opportunity to answer that question directly previously and evaded it. You're claiming it now sounds suspicious, but I'll take you at your word though you previous attempts at misdirection have me being slightly skeptical.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #83 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

we aren't all selfish mean-spirited assholes.

You calling other people selfish and mean-spirited is quite ironic (as Frank already noted).

...The person who is consistently frothing at the mouth and spouting off some of the meanest, angriest most bitter things this board ever sees.

...The person who wants to force others to pay for his grand plans to re-shape society to his own dreams, imaginations and fantasies of Utopia.

...The person who wants to compel others to abide by his own set of values and so-called morality.

Yeah...the rest of us are the selfish ones for resisting your authoritarian plans for our lives.

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post #84 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Are you incapable of thinking our country can lead the world in new technologies? Are you incapable of thinking that our country can do great things--not because it is easy, but because it is hard?

This is classic BR here, folks. Don't debate the issue. Instead, ask your opponent why he thinks the nation can't be a leader who does great things.

SDW: I think we'll be using fossil fuels for a long time. We need more short-term supply while we develop alternative sources.

BR: We need to invest hundreds of billions more in alternative sources. We should forget about fossil fuel production and let the American family suffer with energy prices that are artificially high.

SDW: I disagree. We can do both, but alternative sources aren't ready for prime time.

BR: Why do you hate America?

\\


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Liberals try so hard to be futurists that they end up sabotaging their own ideas.

BR and Tonton believe themselves to be ahead of the curve, and talk down to anyone who understands reality.

No one is saying that renewables shouldn't be developed or that they will not be a significant part of the future economy. The question is whether governments ought to be dumping taxpayer money by the truckload into the pockets of a bunch of politically connected snake oil salesmen. All of whom, by no small coincidence, show up at the government's door claiming to be part of the "next-generation of energy production."

The answer, of course, is no. The private sector, disciplined by investor capital and supplemented by government-funded university research is more than capable of getting this tech to market. There is no question it is needed, and highly desired. There is no shortage of capital and government intrusion has only served to damage the sector significantly.

Liberals with imagination, BR, are the source of most of our society's problems.

Well put. Very well put. I support alternative sources like wind, solar and geothermal. I'll go even further in stating that I support at least some level of government investment in these programs. But what we're doing now is insane. We are putting the government's boot on the throat of fossil fuel developers while we still rely heavily on those products. Then, we're throwing tens of billions at a green energy wall to see what sticks. We're subsidizing an electric car no one wants and which cannot make money. We're playing venture capitalist with upstart "green" energy firms we know are going to fail eventually. And through it all, our President is lying about oil production (claims production is up, but production on federal lands is actually down) and shirking responsibility for his program's failure.

For all the BR's out there that like to use strawman, this is my position on energy:

We need a short-term, mid-term, and long-term energy policy. Our first goal should be reducing our dependance on foreign oil. This requires much more domestic production, including on federal lands. We need to drill in the Gulf and in ANWR, as well as expedite permits elsewhere. Within ten years, we should have the goal of producing at least 75% of our oil here in the United States.

In the medium term, we should invest wisely in sources other than oil and coal. This includes wind, solar, geothermal as well as nuclear and natural gas. Within 25-30 years, our goal should be complete energy independence as a nation, with a combination of oil, coal, natural gas, nuclear, wind, solar and geothermal energy.

In the long-term, we should commit to reducing our oil and coal usage by 75% over the next 50 years. That is at least how long it will take to do this without drastically harming the economy, in my opinion. Within 75 years, we should virtually eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels.


This also requires some serious changes with the EPA and other agencies. It's virtually impossible to build a coal or nuclear plant (or oil refinery) in the United States today. That should not be the case.
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post #85 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And, in typical leftist fashion, you immediately get personal when losing the point. When disagreeing on some point I must be a (presumably ignorant and poorly educated) home school student. When disagreeing on another I must be an abusive and hateful husband. And so it goes. And, yes, I'm quite sure BR does endorse your post.

The simple fact is that someone who consistently claims "us" and "we" and "our" to claim co-ownership of something they themselves are not funding or contributing to is a hypocrite. Someone who consistently calls for higher taxes they themselves will not be required to pay and more laws and regulations they will not be required to live under is a hypocrite.

If you have indeed directly paid US taxes of any significant amount, then I apologize. You, of course, had the opportunity to answer that question directly previously and evaded it. You're claiming it now sounds suspicious, but I'll take you at your word though you previous attempts at misdirection have me being slightly skeptical.

No. You don't get to proclaim that someone who doesn't 'pay into the system', literally, with cash dollars, directly (indirectly diesn't count) doesn't get any say and then say your wife is an exception. As a citizen, I am part of US society, and I contribute. Legally and ideologically, I absolutely do get a fucking say.
post #86 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No. You don't get to proclaim that someone who doesn't 'pay into the system', literally, with cash dollars, directly (indirectly diesn't count) doesn't get any say and then say your wife is an exception.

And you don't get to make false equivalencies and declare how I should or should not operate within my family.

This is the problem with you leftists, you think you have the right to tell everyone else how they can and should live...what they can and should do with their own resources but then reject anyone telling you the same...and worse...reject anyone telling you to butt out of things in which you have no real skin in the game.

Hypocrite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As a citizen, I am part of US society, and I contribute. Legally and ideologically, I absolutely do get a fucking say.

The problem is that you want it both ways. You want to live in a veritable tax haven under tax rates that, were I to ask for them in the US, you'd declare insane while proposing higher taxes where you won't have to pay them and telling us how we should spend the money we're paying.

Hypocrite.

In my opinion you should have no say. No skin, no say. Simple. Anything else is you arrogantly pontificating from afar...a safe distance from the implementation of the plans and policies you wish to have imposed on the rest of us.

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post #87 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No. You don't get to proclaim that someone who doesn't 'pay into the system', literally, with cash dollars, directly (indirectly diesn't count) doesn't get any say and then say your wife is an exception. As a citizen, I am part of US society, and I contribute. Legally and ideologically, I absolutely do get a fucking say.

You claim he doesn't understand citizenship and residency and then you go spouting off where you don't understand HOUSEHOLDS or filing jointly.

The government considers them a household. They do not consider you and Hong Kong a household.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #88 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And you don't get to make false equivalencies and declare how I should or should not operate within my family.

This is the problem with you leftists, you think you have the right to tell everyone else how they can and should live...what they can and should do with their own resources but then reject anyone telling you the same...and worse...reject anyone telling you to butt out of things in which you have no real skin in the game.

Hypocrite.




The problem is that you want it both ways. You want to live in a veritable tax haven under tax rates that, were I to ask for them in the US, you'd declare insane while proposing higher taxes where you won't have to pay them and telling us how we should spend the money we're paying.

Hypocrite.

In my opinion you should have no say. No skin, no say. Simple. Anything else is you arrogantly pontificating from afar...a safe distance from the implementation of the plans and policies you wish to have imposed on the rest of us.

If hong kong didn't have fantastic social policy AND a balanced budget I would absofuckinglutely push for higher taxes here or cuts in pro-business spending. Nothing hypocritical about that.

If in the us they had fantastic social policy and a budget surplus, I would push for tax cuts. Nothing hypocritical about that.
post #89 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If hong kong didn't have fantastic social policy AND a balanced budget I would absofuckinglutely push for higher taxes here or cuts in pro-business spending.

I find it interesting how you assume a correlation between the higher taxes and government spending you call for in the US despite living in exactly the opposite conditions. Taxes in HK are much much lower than the US. Government spending in both absolute and relative terms are also much much lower. Yet you call for more of both in the US to make it more like HK.

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post #90 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You claim he doesn't understand citizenship and residency and then you go spouting off where you don't understand HOUSEHOLDS or filing jointly.

The government considers them a household. They do not consider you and Hong Kong a household.

Oh bullshit. You are too dense to see that the analogy isn't me and hong kong as a household, it's me and the USA as a household.
post #91 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh bullshit. You are too dense to see that the analogy isn't me and hong kong as a household, it's me and the USA as a household.

And you are too dense to see what a shitty analogy it is. \

Though I have no doubt that your leftist worldview sees it exactly this way. The US is a family. President Obama and Michele are "mom" and "dad". The government are the parents the people are just obedient children.

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post #92 of 219
MJ1970, love the quote in your sig. He's one of my favorite philosophers/thinkers.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #93 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh bullshit. You are too dense to see that the analogy isn't me and hong kong as a household, it's me and the USA as a household.

He wasn't using an analogy. He and his wife are considered a household PERIOD. You're just making nonsense up at this stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And you are too dense to see what a shitty analogy it is. \

Though I have no doubt that your leftist worldview sees it exactly this way. The US is a family. President Obama and Michele are "mom" and "dad". The government are the parents the people are just obedient children.

Exactly!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #94 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

He wasn't using an analogy. He and his wife are considered a household PERIOD. You're just making nonsense up at this stage.

And I'm a citizen of the United States of America PERIOD, and I get a say. PERIOD.
post #95 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And I'm a citizen of the United States of America PERIOD, and I get a say. PERIOD.

We all get it.

You want authority without responsibility or consequences. You want the "right" to use your vote to compel others to pay higher taxes that you're unwilling to pay yourself. You want the "right" to use your vote to declare how that collected money is spent without actually contributing any of your own.

Your hypocrisy is plain for all to see.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #96 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And I'm a citizen of the United States of America PERIOD, and I get a say. PERIOD.

The larger point is not whether you "get a say," but whether anyone should listen to your perspective. That perspective is influenced by a very different value system, one that is not based on individual freedoms, but the "collective good." It's one where the "social contract" outweighs a Constitution and God-given rights. And it's one where, practically speaking, there are vastly different fiscal needs (HK does not play the role in the world the U.S. does militarily, economically, etc.)

But beyond all the perspective differences, your argument really doesn't make sense as MJ notes:

Quote:
I find it interesting how you assume a correlation between the higher taxes and government spending you call for in the US despite living in exactly the opposite conditions. Taxes in HK are much much lower than the US. Government spending in both absolute and relative terms are also much much lower. Yet you call for more of both in the US to make it more like HK.
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post #97 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

We all get it.

You want authority without responsibility or consequences. You want the "right" to use your vote to compel others to pay higher taxes that you're unwilling to pay yourself. You want the "right" to use your vote to declare how that collected money is spent without actually contributing any of your own.

Your hypocrisy is plain for all to see.

I don't want the right. I have the right, so fuck you. And I do contribute plenty. You just refuse to see it. Or you're incapable of seeing it.
post #98 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The larger point is not whether you "get a say," but whether anyone should listen to your perspective. That perspective is influenced by a very different value system, one that is not based on individual freedoms, but the "collective good." It's one where the "social contract" outweighs a Constitution and God-given rights. And it's one where, practically speaking, there are vastly different fiscal needs (HK does not play the role in the world the U.S. does militarily, economically, etc.)

But beyond all the perspective differences, your argument really doesn't make sense as MJ notes:

The US should absolutely not play the role it does militarily, for one.

And economically? The US is a DEBTOR. The US is an economic LEECH on the world.
post #99 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I don't want the right. I have the right, so fuck you.

Let's plug this all together, shall we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I have the "right" to use my vote to compel others to pay higher taxes that I'm unwilling to pay myself. I have the "right" to use my vote to declare how that collected money is spent without actually contributing any of my own.

Typical.

Actually, morally speaking, I'd argue you don't have such a "right" at all. Governments don't grant rights. Rights exist as a part of of our natural living existence and you or anyone else doesn't actually have a right to compel others to do those things. You just think you do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And I do contribute plenty. You just refuse to see it. Or you're incapable of seeing it.

Or you're not showing it. All I'm seeing is you contributing your opinion (and vote) about what other people should be doing and how other people should be living and how much other people should be spending according to your values.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #100 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I find it interesting how you assume a correlation between the higher taxes and government spending you call for in the US despite living in exactly the opposite conditions. Taxes in HK are much much lower than the US. Government spending in both absolute and relative terms are also much much lower. Yet you call for more of both in the US to make it more like HK.


Taxes in Hong Kong are enough to pay for our spending. Our spending pays for the stuff we need.

You're constantly suggesting that the US stop paying for the stuff we need there, so that taxes can be cut.

That's idiotic.

Stop paying for the stuff we don't need, first.
post #101 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And I'm a citizen of the United States of America PERIOD, and I get a say. PERIOD.

I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't get a say. The question is how much weight it carries - how much credibility it has.

Frankly, as a U.S. citizen living in the U.S., I'm more inclined to pay attention and give credibility to the small business owner living in small-town America who is about to lose his business due to increased government regulations and his house due to a government-created housing bubble than an expatriate or dual-citizen living in Hong Kong claiming the U.S. needs more government intervention in the economy when he enjoys living in one of the most economically free and prosperous regions in the world.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #102 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Typical.




Or you're not showing it. All I'm seeing is you contributing your opinion (and vote) about what other people should be doing and how other people should be living and how much other people should be spending according to your values.

And you're telling me to shut up about what the US should do with our resources. You're telling me what to do. Even though I have a legal and moral right to do so.
post #103 of 219
He's not telling you to shut up, he's calling you a hypocrite.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #104 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And you're telling me to shut up about what the US should do with our resources. You're telling me what to do. Even though I have a legal and moral right to do so.

1. I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy which becomes more obvious with every word you speak, so you might want to shut up.
2. The resources aren't "ours"...there is no "we" that involves you. You collectivists think you just get to declare stuff to be "ours" and it is so. Nope.
3. You may have a "legal" right but I see no moral right at all. In fact, I consider it profoundly immoral to compel others to do what you want them to do and even more so when it is something you're not doing and unwilling to do yourself.

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post #105 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The US should absolutely not play the role it does militarily, for one.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion. I completely disagree. But, even if we slashed the defense budget by 50%, it wouldn't put a dent in our debt or deficit. I see you utterly ignored the rest of the post.

Quote:

And economically? The US is a DEBTOR. The US is an economic LEECH on the world.

This shows your absolute ignorance on economics, once and for all. The U.S. being a debtor nation (which most nations are) does not mean we are a drain on the world's economy. The U.S. is the single biggest driver of economic growth on the planet. It's the engine of the world economy, even in these tough times.
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post #106 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Taxes in Hong Kong are enough to pay for our spending. Our spending pays for the stuff we need.

You're constantly suggesting that the US stop paying for the stuff we need there, so that taxes can be cut.

That's idiotic.

Stop paying for the stuff we don't need, first.

First, your opinion of what we need is not one I share (both in my personal opinion and as outlined in the Constitution). Either way, the argument of what to cut is a different one.

Secondly, you continue to view fiscal policy as zero sum. Raising taxes by Y will not get X revenue to pay for Z spending. Taxation affects economic behavior, which affects growth, which affects revenue. Additionally, it's not just a case of balancing the budget. The entire U.S. tax code is complete nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't get a say. The question is how much weight it carries - how much credibility it has.

Frankly, as a U.S. citizen living in the U.S., I'm more inclined to pay attention and give credibility to the small business owner living in small-town America who is about to lose his business due to increased government regulations and his house due to a government-created housing bubble than an expatriate or dual-citizen living in Hong Kong claiming the U.S. needs more government intervention in the economy when he enjoys living in one of the most economically free and prosperous regions in the world.

That's exactly what I'm saying. His perspective is the issue.
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post #107 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Taxes in Hong Kong are enough to pay for our spending. Our spending pays for the stuff we need.

And both are substantially less than in the US.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You're constantly suggesting that the US stop paying for the stuff we need there, so that taxes can be cut.

1. There is no "we" that includes you here.
2. What is needed here is clearly a matter of opinion.

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post #108 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

1. I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy which becomes more obvious with every word you speak, so you might want to shut up.
2. The resources aren't "ours"...there is no "we" that involves you. You collectivists think you just get to declare stuff to be "ours" and it is so. Nope.
3. You may have a "legal" right but I see no moral right at all. In fact, I consider it profoundly immoral to compel others to do what you want them to do and even more so when it is something you're not doing and unwilling to do yourself.

1. There is no hypocrisy, as I've pointed out. We need a balanced budget and we need a social safety net, including health care. We need that in Hong Kong and we need that in the US. In this I'm 100% consistent. Consistency is not hypocrisy.
2. Bullshit. I am a citizen, and the resources of the country of which I am a citizen are OUR fucking resources. Period.
3. Who the fuck says I'm unwilling? I would absolutely push for a balanced budget that includes universal health care and social welfare if I were in the US, even if it meant I would have to pay higher taxes there. At the same time I would push for cuts to OUR budget regarding the things we DON'T need. Cutting the military isn't enough. Neither is reforming Social Security or any of the other necessities you guys want to cut. But cutting the military is a potentially huge fucking START. And there are certainly more things we can cut. Like oil subsidies, now. Like farm subsidies, now. Like ethanol subsidies, now. Like the NED and corporate welfare and tax cuts for billionaires. Put them all together and it will make a BIG dent. Without cutting the things that will put starving people on the streets, in jail, or in the ground.
post #109 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

And both are substantially less than in the US.

So? What's the problem. Hong Kong pays for subsidized housing and universal health care. That comes first.
Quote:
1. There is no "we" that includes you here.

You keep saying that, and it's still not true. What an ignorant ass. The US is MY country. The resources of the US are OUR resources. What you say doesn't take that away. Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.
Quote:
2. What is needed here is clearly a matter of opinion.

Indeed. How about what Somalia needs? Since that's much closer to your ideal government structure.

Hmm... Hong Kong or Somalia... which one to learn from? Tough decisions...
post #110 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

1. There is no hypocrisy, as I've pointed out.

Of course there is, as I've pointed out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

We need a balanced budget and we need a social safety net, including health care. We need that in Hong Kong and we need that in the US. In this I'm 100% consistent. Consistency is not hypocrisy.

Ahhh...now you're moving the goal posts. We is global? Clever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

2. Bullshit. I am a citizen, and the resources of the country of which I am a citizen are OUR fucking resources. Period.

Nahhh. You're just claiming them to be yours while not contributing anything to them. I'll grant you that this is consistent with your overall worldview though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

3. Who the fuck says I'm unwilling?

You're still living on HK aren't you? You're still taking advantage of the income tax exemption aren't you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I would absolutely push for a balanced budget that includes universal health care and social welfare if I were in the US, even if it meant I would have to pay higher taxes there.

That claim would carry more weight if you actually were here. At this point it's just talk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

At the same time I would push for cuts to OUR budget regarding the things we DON'T need. Cutting the military isn't enough. Neither is reforming Social Security or any of the other necessities you guys want to cut. But it's a fucking START. And there are certainly more things we can cut. Like oil subsidies, now. Like farm subsidies, now. Like ethanol subsidies, now. Like the NED and corporate welfare and tax cuts for billionaires. Put them all together and it will make a BIG dent.

And I agree that all those things (and more) should be cut. And taxes should also be cut. In short, it would be nice to see the US actually return to be being a constitutionally limited republic. Doing so would necessitate eliminating about 90% of what the federal government of the US currently does. Individual states would, of course, have much more latitude. For example the healthcare thing that Romney signed in Massachusetts and is bankrupting that state could be done at the state levels (though I would still oppose it) but not at the federal level.

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post #111 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There is no hypocrisy, as I've pointed out. We need a balanced budget and we need a social safety net, including health care. We need that in Hong Kong and we need that in the US. In this I'm 100% consistent. Consistency is not hypocrisy.

Actually, you're not very consistent at all. Why don't we need the other things that Hong Kong has, like strictly enforced borders and emigration policy, less regulation, and lower taxes (to name a few)?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #112 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What an ignorant ass.

And you quickly resort to name calling when losing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The US is MY country. The resources of the US are OUR resources.




Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Indeed. How about what Somalia needs? Since that's much closer to your ideal government structure.

Hmm... Hong Kong or Somalia... which one to learn from? Tough decisions...

Priceless. \

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #113 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You're still living on HK aren't you? You're still taking advantage of the income tax exemption aren't you?

Oh, I get it. You think everyone is like you and would choose where to live based on how much taxes they pay. Honestly, that's about last on my list of reasons to settle somewhere. I honestly don't give two flying fucks how much taxes I pay here as long as our collective needs are met and there's still enough incentive for capitalist expansion.

If the US had 50% tax, universal health care and subsidized housing and education, and if there were a job there I was happy doing, and an environment in which I would be happy living (and if perople were nice and I didn't have to worry about getting randomly shot), I would definitely consider living there instead of Hong Kong. Taxes are meaningless in the equation.

I'd consider Norway as an ideal destination if I weren't here. Well, except for the climate. Okay, change that to the Netherlands.
post #114 of 219
I was wondering when the tired old Somalia card would be played.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #115 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh, I get it. You think everyone is like you and would choose where to live based on how much taxes they pay. Honestly, that's about last on my list of reasons to settle somewhere.

Not at all. You seem to have a regular comprehension problem here.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #116 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I was wondering when the tired old Somalia card would be played.

Usually it comes before the name-calling. But I think he might be getting disoriented.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #117 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

...and there's enough incentive for capitalist expansion.

Well...isn't that interesting. First you have the equation backwards. But that aside, at what point does the "incentive for capitalist expansion" take a hit?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #118 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Usually it comes before the name-calling. But I think he might be getting disoriented.

It does seem you've put him off his game a bit.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #119 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If the US had 50% tax, universal health care and subsidized housing and education, and if there were a job there I was happy doing, and an environment in which I would be happy living (and if perople were nice and I didn't have to worry about getting randomly shot), I would definitely consider living there instead og Hong Kong. Taxes are meaningless in the equation.

So you've outlined some your values. Great. Problem is that you want to compel everyone else to live by your standards and values. This is where the problem arises. No one is stopping you or your friends who share the same values from spending 50% of your income to provide healthcare for or transportation for someone else.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #120 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So you've outlined some your values. Great. Problem is that you want to compel everyone else to live by your standards and values. This is where the problem arises. No one is stopping you or your friends who share the same values from spending 50% of your income to provide healthcare for or transportation for someone else.

<opens box of cheeze-it crackers>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
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