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Third-gen iPad reportedly shows inaccurate battery level while charging

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
A report alleges that the third-generation iPad continues to draw a significant amount of wattage after displaying a "100%" battery level, and claims that the device actually finishes the charging cycle some two hours after "prematurely reporting" a full charge.

The finding comes from a follow-up test by DisplayMate President Dr. Raymond Soneira, who conducted an in-depth analysis of the new iPad's Retina Display earlier this week, and claims in an e-mail to AppleInsider that a mathematical charge rate model may be the cause of false on-screen battery indicator readings.

Soneira's findings have not been corroborated and thus may not reflect all third-generation iPads, though it seems that the problem is not hardware related and instead has to do with the device's programmed charge rate.

In his investigation, Soneira found that the iPad continued to draw 10 watts of electricity for two hours after indicating 100% charge, then began to reduce power for an additional ten minutes until a precipitous decline in power draw signaled the termination of the charging cycle.

Soneira offers this explanation:
Quote:
The charge indicator on all mobile devices is based on a mathematical model of the charge rates, discharge rates, and recent discharge history of the battery. It uses this information to estimate how much running time is left. It's actually rather difficult to do because most batteries degrade slowly as they discharge and then tend to surprise with a precipitous decline near the end.

He goes on to say that there may be a fault in the battery charge mathematical model in the new iPad as the indicator should not read 100% until it's power draw switches from 10 watts to a trickle charge of about 1 watt.


Apple claims the Wi-Fi version (left) can browse the web for 10 hours, while the 4G model (right) can get 9 hours on a cell network. | Source: Apple


It is unclear whether the iPad's battery level indicator shows an inaccurate level throughout the entire charging process or if the issue is limited to the final stages directly before the power management chip initiates a trickle charge.

While Apple boasts that in spite of its power hungry components like the high-resolution Retina Display and A5X processor, the third-generation iPad's battery life is similar to that of the iPad 2. These claims are no doubt based on a fully charged unit, and the newly-discovered indicator issue could confuse some customers into thinking their device is not performing up to advertised standards.

Apple launched the latest iPad on March 16 and announced on Monday that unit sales had reached the 3 million in less than four days. The company continued its fastest international iPad rollout ever on Friday as the tablet went on sale in an additional 25 countries and territories.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 64
Ooooooo.... Charge-Gate!
post #3 of 64
OMFG

I am calling my lawyer (who prefers to be called an attorney for some dumbshit reason) right now.
post #4 of 64
I don't know why there can't be some sort of hardware gadget that reports how charged the battery is, why does the OS need to build a mathematical model and work off that? We all know how well that works for the weather.
post #5 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

I am calling my lawyer (who prefers to be called an attorney for some dumbshit reason) right now.

The laugh you got out of me from that actually devolved into a cackle. I just really like the idea of some poor uninformed person saying that.

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I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #6 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

OMFG

I am calling my lawyer (who prefers to be called an attorney for some dumbshit reason) right now.

You should. I hear Apple is made of money. By the time the class action suit is settled some 3 years from now, you'll get $15 for your trouble, and your lawyer (or attorney for some dumbshit reason) will get a new 35ft. boat and a Porsche Cayenne Turbo to tow it.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #7 of 64
Apple really needs to do a better job with their initial hardware designs . It is obvious to me that the Apple fans really love whatever Apple releases but I, for one, have purchased a first-gen Apple hardware design, and I will never do it again. There are too many, ummm, quirks, present.

Apple apparently releases beta-level hardware as production-level releases.

Didn't Microsoft have the same reputation for their OS release?
post #8 of 64
I read somewhere that someone said the reason for this is because you will never have 100% unless its currently plugged in. So the second it is removed the battery is then 99% or 98% so they compensate the top 10% battery reading so it stays high I believe.

Supposedly.... just something I read.

Oh and it also applies to all technology batteries not just the iPad.
post #9 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

OMFG

I am calling my lawyer (who prefers to be called an attorney for some dumbshit reason) right now.

Lawyers have a number of naming conventions that they rotate through as each gets a horrific reputation with the general public and clients.

Everybody knows that 'lawyers' are greedy pricks, so they now prefer to be called attorneys. After that will be solicitors. Then legal representatives, etc, etc... You get the picture.

Eventually, they'll rotate back to being lawyers once the social stigma has worn off.

Naturally, it's business as usual with no change in actual behavior at any point.
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post #10 of 64
so what exactly makes this guy a 'display expert' and how exactly did he do this analysis. I sure hope it wasn't the same technique as Consumer Reports, which is to 'test' one unit and assume that that is identical to the millions of others.

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post #11 of 64
Today was the first time I drained the battery all the way to shutdown.
I plugged the iPad into the 10W charger.
5 hours later, it was showing 48%.
I am never letting it drain again

Other than the charge time, I love the new iPad!
I am constantly showing off the screen.
The speed with LTE is awesome!
post #12 of 64
So you didn't buy the iPad or iPad 2? You realize every single device Apple releases is a new hardware design. It may not appear externally but the engineering inside is much more complex. Also, this is software, if it's even a real issue, not hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camper View Post

Apple really needs to do a better job with their initial hardware designs . It is obvious to me that the Apple fans really love whatever Apple releases but I, for one, have purchased a first-gen Apple hardware design, and I will never do it again. There are too many, ummm, quirks, present.

Apple apparently releases beta-level hardware as production-level releases.

Didn't Microsoft have the same reputation for their OS release?
post #13 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

Today was the first time I drained the battery all the way to shutdown.
I plugged the iPad into the 10W charger.
5 hours later, it was showing 48%.
I am never letting it drain again

Other than the charge time, I love the new iPad!
I am constantly showing off the screen.
The speed with LTE is awesome!

I know there are practical limits... But I miss the fast charging from my first gen iPad. Love the screen though!!
post #14 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokrad View Post

I read somewhere that someone said the reason for this is because you will never have 100% unless its currently plugged in. So the second it is removed the battery is then 99% or 98% so they compensate the top 10% battery reading so it stays high I believe.

Supposedly.... just something I read.

Oh and it also applies to all technology batteries not just the iPad.

Exactly. If you take an iPhone off its charger, does it not say 100% for a while after? Obviously if you're using battery power, it can't really be at 100%. This issue is nothing new. Apple has said in the past that even iPhones continue to trickle-charge after it says it has reached 100%.
post #15 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by camper View Post

Apple really needs to do a better job with their initial hardware designs . It is obvious to me that the Apple fans really love whatever Apple releases but I, for one, have purchased a first-gen Apple hardware design, and I will never do it again. There are too many, ummm, quirks, present.

Apple apparently releases beta-level hardware as production-level releases.

Didn't Microsoft have the same reputation for their OS release?

What makes more sense? That millions of Apple customers don't have issues or that millions of people have problems, but choose to ignore the problems because they are Apple fans and YOU are the lone voice of reason?

You have to get over yourself, friend. The devices work. In two weeks, each of these items will fade away strangely with no action from Apple because they are non-issues. I mean, iPad 4G maxes data plans when watching video?
post #16 of 64
Isn't the battery still being conditioned during the first few charge cycles?
Aren't the on-board electronics and charge software still adapting to the battery and vice versa?

I think it takes a couple of charge cyles untill the % figures become reasonably accurate.
post #17 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Isn't the battery still being conditioned during the first few charge cycles?
Aren't the on-board electronics and charge software still adapting to the battery and vice versa?

I think it takes a couple of charge cyles untill the % figures become reasonably accurate.

I'm familiar with conditioning LiIon batteries but I thought this was done at the factory with the first charge being 100%.

I guess that isn't always the case:
Quote:
Step 1: Initial Charge

Fully charge the battery overnight using your computer's AC adapter. We highly recommend allowing the initial charge to be at least 12 hours, no matter what the percentage of charge is displayed in the Battery menu. This will extend the life of the battery to its maximum. You may use the computer during this time, but DO NOT interrupt the charge cycle by unplugging the AC adapter.


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post #18 of 64
At the end of the day, 99% of the time, my new iPad is somewhere between 20 and 80% battery life left. I plug it into the charger and the next morning it is at 100%. Just like my first iPad always was. I am sure glad I don't have his problem. Then again I am not looking as hard as he is to find something wrong.
post #19 of 64
I have a really bummed out new iPad. It doesn't seem to heat up all that much, wifi connections have had no issues at all, and the darn thing seems to charge (and discharge) no differently than my iPad 1 or iPad 2.

In fact, other than for an amazingly better screen and substantially higher speed, it is no different.

Maybe I should return mine -- something is clearly wrong.
post #20 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by camper View Post

Apple really needs to do a better job with their initial hardware designs . It is obvious to me that the Apple fans really love whatever Apple releases but I, for one, have purchased a first-gen Apple hardware design, and I will never do it again. There are too many, ummm, quirks, present.

Apple apparently releases beta-level hardware as production-level releases.

Didn't Microsoft have the same reputation for their OS release?

Get off the high horse.

Btw Apple don't need your support they have tons of money and MS may need you to support them sooner than later so don't let the door hit you on the way out.
post #21 of 64
Yeah, the gas gauge in my car also reports it is full when I can still add another gallon or two AND shows empty when I can drive another 100 miles ...
post #22 of 64
yeah but.. guess what. my ipad will show 100% even after a few minutes of use (screen/network). clearly if the battery was a 100%, the SECOND I turn it on and it draws from the battery, the percentage should drop IMMEDIATELY...

so.. that means 1 of 2 things.
1) I have an uber battery which actually holds more than 100% charge..
2) the percentage indicator is just an estimate of actual charge, so basically I have enough info to know that I'm good to go for a while.

(I do not have a super battery)

I doubt the fuel indicator in my car is capable of detecting 3.675 gallons of sloshing liquid in my tank when it reads 25% (of a 14.7 gallon tank)..
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

yeah but.. guess what. my ipad will show 100% even after a few minutes of use (screen/network). clearly if the battery was a 100%, the SECOND I turn it on and it draws from the battery, the percentage should drop IMMEDIATELY...

so.. that means 1 of 2 things.
1) I have an uber battery which actually holds more than 100% charge..
2) the percentage indicator is just an estimate of actual charge, so basically I have enough info to know that I'm good to go for a while.

(I do not have a super battery)

I doubt the fuel indicator in my car is capable of detecting 3.675 gallons of sloshing liquid in my tank when it reads 25% (of a 14.7 gallon tank)..

You failed to account for the way fractions are reported. 99.5% or higher should still be reported as 100%.

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post #24 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You failed to account for the way fractions are reported. 99.5% or higher should still be reported as 100%.

thank you for making my point
the indicator is just an APPROXIMATION of actual.

battery will read 99% at 99.4 and below. the minute it hits 99.5, is shows 100%.. in reality, there's still some charging to do.
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

thank you for making my point
the indicator is just an APPROXIMATION of actual.

battery will read 99% at 99.4 and below. the minute it hits 99.5, is shows 100%.. in reality, there's still some charging to do.

No, your point was that you have an "uber" battery or that it's an estimation, you made no mention of the percentage being the actual rounded value. You backed up this lack of acknowledgment by saying that it's 100% when it's been unplugged for a moment.

For your new claim to be accurate you would have had to at least acknowledge the first decimal point. For instance 100.0%. However, if 10 hours of usage was static it would take 20 minutes before you're at 99.4, showing 99%, or 2 minutes before you're at 99.94% or showing 99.9% for a meter indicating the first decimal.

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post #26 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

yeah but.. guess what. my ipad will show 100% even after a few minutes of use (screen/network). clearly if the battery was a 100%, the SECOND I turn it on and it draws from the battery, the percentage should drop IMMEDIATELY...

so.. that means 1 of 2 things.
1) I have an uber battery which actually holds more than 100% charge..
2) the percentage indicator is just an estimate of actual charge, so basically I have enough info to know that I'm good to go for a while.

(I do not have a super battery)

I doubt the fuel indicator in my car is capable of detecting 3.675 gallons of sloshing liquid in my tank when it reads 25% (of a 14.7 gallon tank)..

Clearly the firmware/software can be written to do a lot of fancy stuff including reporting what a company wants it to report. It's kinda like when Apple changed the algorithm for "number of bars" on the iPhone: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...ignal-drop.ars
post #27 of 64
I'm pretty sure this is intentional. The charge time already is pretty long. I'm sure Apple rather loses a few per cent capacity than adding two full hours of frustrating waiting.

Imagine the battery taking two more hours to go from 95% to 100%. (That's just half an hour of battery life.) People would complain about that pretty loudly.
post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by foobar View Post

I'm pretty sure this is intentional. The charge time already is pretty long. I'm sure Apple rather loses a few per cent capacity than adding two full hours of frustrating waiting.

Imagine the battery taking two more hours to go from 95% to 100%. (That's just half an hour of battery life.) People would complain about that pretty loudly.

This hypothesis is easy to test. Follow the steps outlined below.
  1. Fully discharge the iPad until it turns off.
  2. Charge until you see 100%, then disconnect from charger.
  3. Run a looping video over WiFi and time how long it takes until it turns off again.
  4. Charge until 100%, leave for additional 3 hours, disconnect.
  5. Repeat the step with looping video, record the new time.
  6. Compare times for first and second run.
For best results, repeat this with three different units, three times each
post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by camper View Post

Apple apparently releases beta-level hardware as production-level releases.
Didn't Microsoft have the same reputation for their OS release?

An inaccurate battery level reading would indicate a problem with the software not the hardware and yes, Microsoft essentially had a 2 year beta OS for Windows 7 called Windows Vista. The distinction though is that Apple calls a beta like Siri as such and based on the past history, Apple will fix bugs such as this alleged inaccurate battery level indicator and others in their next iOS maintenance release such as they did when the iPhone 4S first came out (iOS 5.0 to 5.0.1 in two months)
post #30 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by camper View Post

Apple really needs to do a better job with their initial hardware designs . It is obvious to me that the Apple fans really love whatever Apple releases but I, for one, have purchased a first-gen Apple hardware design, and I will never do it again. There are too many, ummm, quirks, present.

Apple apparently releases beta-level hardware as production-level releases.

Didn't Microsoft have the same reputation for their OS release?

Care to give one example that wasn't FUD? Every apple device I have ever bought was first generation, day one release. I have never had an issue. And that's going back to 1987. No one I know has ever had an issue.

If a tiny minority of people suffer an issue, then this is obviously a bath/manufacture/environmental issue, but a design flaw. Every rechargeable device on the planet can take a bit more charge once it says "100%", always have, always will.
post #31 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

OMFG

I am calling my lawyer (who prefers to be called an attorney for some dumbshit reason) right now.

The words have different meanings. Look them up.
post #32 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post


Everybody knows that 'lawyers' are greedy pricks,

Apple employs an army of greedy pricks. Or are Apple's lawyers different from all other lawyers?
post #33 of 64
Funny, I usually recharge my new iPad overnight and wake up to find it at 100%. Ironically, my iPhone 4S seems to get 4G reception here in Atlanta. Does AT&T offer 4G service yet? I figure that this is a carry over effect of Steve's alternate reality or did he get his angel wings and bring me a few gifts?
post #34 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by steverance View Post

Yeah, the gas gauge in my car also reports it is full when I can still add another gallon or two AND shows empty when I can drive another 100 miles ...

Unless you own a Ferrari, your comparison is meaningless. Apple products are the Ferrari of gadgets, and accordingly, they should be compared only to Ferraris.
post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by camper View Post

Apple really needs to do a better job with their initial hardware designs . It is obvious to me that the Apple fans really love whatever Apple releases but I, for one, have purchased a first-gen Apple hardware design, and I will never do it again. There are too many, ummm, quirks, present.

Apple apparently releases beta-level hardware as production-level releases.

Didn't Microsoft have the same reputation for their OS release?

Baloney and F.U.D. I've been buying Apple hardware since 1982, mostly first generation, and have never had a problem. Apple ][, Apple IIe, Apple IIgs, all perfect. I bought a first generation Power Mac 8100, no problems. I bought a water cooled G5 tower, no leaking. Original iMac 233mhz for my son? No problems either. iMac 24" ditto. iPad 2 the day it cam out, perfect.

It's the f'ing Internet. A couple of bozos with the same issue find each other and suddenly we have a "widespread" problem. Then the OCD crowd and the hand wringers jump on it. Any body remember "heat gate" from last week?

Your assertions are wrong, dead wrong.
post #36 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Ooooooo.... Charge-Gate!

As silly as it is, people are apparently taking these ridiculous complaints seriously:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/31...ting-wifi.htm?
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post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by foobar View Post

I'm pretty sure this is intentional. The charge time already is pretty long. I'm sure Apple rather loses a few per cent capacity than adding two full hours of frustrating waiting.

Imagine the battery taking two more hours to go from 95% to 100%. (That's just half an hour of battery life.) People would complain about that pretty loudly.

That is likely exactly what is going on. As the battery approaches full, the rate of charge decreases to a trickle for optimum battery longevity and safety.

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post #38 of 64
Why in the hell is AI so hell bent on making mountains out of molehills?

Really guys it isn't like this is the first iOS device with battery and charging issues. We are still being told to "calibrate" our devices once in a while by running the battery down. Just this should have everybody asking if the iPad is broke in so to speak and has been calibrated.

Bugs do happen however just as they have happened in the past, this however should bother nobody. Why? Because unless you are sitting there watching the charge cycle, to watch it roll over from 99% to 100%, your device will charge until the cycle is complete.
post #39 of 64
I work in the area of energy storage and when I heard about the new iPad charging slower than iPad2 I knew that apple is doing something really good here.
For those who are familiar with Li-ion battery technology. A li-ion cell should ideally be charged in a CC-CV (constant-current constant-voltage) mode at C/10 or if possible at C/5 rate and finally a tickle charge till charging current reaches 3%. This means that if the battery capacity is 1000mAh it should ideally be charged at around 100 mA which will take 10 hrs to charge it to full capacity. Charging it at 50mA is even better for battery's longivity. The same battery can be charged at 500mA and it will only take 2 hrs to do so but it is not advised because charging it at faster rate degrades Li-ion cells (internal resistance, heat etc are some factors).
Now this new iPad has a significantly higher capacity battery than iPad 2 so it taking longer to charge is not a surprise even if the two devices are charging at same current. So to me it is really a calculated compromise because new iPad needs that extra energy for driving improved display as well as processor/gpu.
post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by sssdddaaa222 View Post

Now this new iPad has a significantly higher capacity battery than iPad 2 so it taking longer to charge is not a surprise

Exactly and people seem to be noticing the long charging times:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

new iPad = 42.5Wh battery
iPad 2 = 25WH battery

70% larger battery so 70% longer charging times.

With a 10W adaptor, the fastest the old iPad could charge is 2.5 hours and the fastest the new one can charge is 4.3 hours.

It seems the Griffin Powerblock might get the charging done at the quickest rate:

http://gizmodo.com/5535631/the-faste...charge-an-ipad
http://store.apple.com/uk/product/H0952ZM/A

Real world charging times seem to be around 4-5 hours for original iPads, 7-8.5 hours for the new one. It makes sense that Apple would report that it has reached 100% early because if it gives you 7-8 hours of use (close to a full day) then you likely won't notice. What you would notice is it taking forever to hit 100%.

What makes it worse is that the report noted the new backlight uses 7 Watts vs 2.8 in the previous model so at full brightness, it drains 2.5x quicker with just 1.7x battery:

http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_ShootOut_1.htm
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