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Almost the end of March!

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
Well, here we are almost the end of March, and no new Mac Pro or any creditable rumors of one. The chips are out, the gpu's are out, what excuse do they have now?
post #2 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

Well, here we are almost the end of March, and no new Mac Pro or any creditable rumors of one. The chips are out, the gpu's are out, what excuse do they have now?

They're killing it. They don't need an excuse.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #3 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They're killing it. They don't need an excuse.

I'm really beginning to think your right. Found myself actually browsing HP's site today. Oh well.
post #4 of 34
Hmm.

The 'new' iPad gets the limelight until the end of March at least.

Macs? Expect them to follow in April/May as Intel readies Ivy Bridge.

If there's no Mac Pro in 6 months time...it's probably not going to happen. By which time we'll be in the end of Summer and...and Mountain Lion will be with us or imminent.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #5 of 34
If it doesn't make it, there's always the top end iMac instead...

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #6 of 34
Thread Starter 
The iMac just does not have enough processing power or gpu power for what I do.
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

The iMac just does not have enough processing power or gpu power for what I do.

So grab a current Mac Pro, install Mountain Lion on it (once it's out), and pop a Radeon 79xx in there.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #8 of 34
Thread Starter 
A refurb would be $5249.00. thats a lot of cash for an almost 2 year old machine don't you think?
post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

A refurb would be $5249.00. thats a lot of cash for an almost 2 year old machine don't you think?

No, a refurb is $2,039. Don't hyperbolize.

Also, that refurb's price is incorrect. It's more than the price of a new machine with the same specs. It can't possibly be correct.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #10 of 34
I'm expecting some news too... I'm in need of a new desktop and I want to know how things roll out before I make my move. One of three options may come to be:
1) Apple kills the Mac Pro
2) Apple just updates it with new hardware
3) Apple releases a new redesigned Mac Pro or something else to replace it

I guess we're just gonna have to wait some more time... all this waiting is "killing" me!
post #11 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, a refurb is $2,039. Don't hyperbolize.

Also, that refurb's price is incorrect. It's more than the price of a new machine with the same specs. It can't possibly be correct.

I'm talking their top of the line Refurb which is $5249.00. Thats the only one I would consider.
post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

Well, here we are almost the end of March, and no new Mac Pro or any creditable rumors of one. The chips are out, the gpu's are out, what excuse do they have now?

Get over this. Seriously.... Look at the other oems. They're using the same damn hardware. Even the AMD 5870 is similar to a Firepro V7800 without workstation drivers. Granted those drivers can make a huge huge difference with the right software, but if you need that, you should look at a PC. Apple's gpu drivers have always been kind of bleh. The cpu options are the same damn thing. Dell is significantly cheaper. The rest are a bit cheaper, but not as much as you might think when comparing to workstation builds.

I think Boxx is the only one shipping Sandy Bridge E Xeons. You really need to get over this stuff dude. If everyone else comes out with something, and a couple months later Apple still hasn't updated, then you may consider swapping for a PC. When you don't have fully updated options on that end either, why does it matter right now? The general attitude that Apple should get everything first is pretty asinine. It happens here and there, but I doubt their relationship with intel is great at the moment.

Until they do something with it, the weird speculation is pointless. Keep in mind, it hasn't moved off the front page as the Xserve did before its demise.

Last regarding rumors, you should know that many of the rumors you see on here are more like educated guesses. Much of the time they pick something, and they happen to pick a winner going by what is likely.


By the way, I would have expected somewhat of a rush from Apple had these cpus been available toward the end of last year, as that would have meant capturing IT budgets around the end of the fourth quarter. Seeing as that didn't happen, it's unlikely that they have a pressing need to release new machines right now. Even in 2010, no new cpus were expected before Fall of 2011. They got pushed back from there. At this point new gpu models are starting to trickle out too.
post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, a refurb is $2,039. Don't hyperbolize.

Also, that refurb's price is incorrect. It's more than the price of a new machine with the same specs. It can't possibly be correct.

I've seen refurb prices close to or higher than new hardware before. Apple bases the refurb price on the original price of the machine, not what the current model is selling for.

And if he's looking at the $5000 model, the entry level machine will be about as useful to him as the iMac.
post #14 of 34
Thread Starter 
I'm pretty much over Apple's communication skills.They need to be upfront with the Pro community! This silent treatment is just stupid! The fact that HP has the new machines on their site, and the fact that Apple has released no statements at all, just tells me they couldn't care less about the professional community. I'm really over that mentality! As a professional 3d modeler I need to make decisions about my business. I have way to much invested in Apple software to just jump to Windows unless there is no other choice. That's what I'm waiting to find out. The 2 year old machines they have on their site right now are simply not worth the asking price. I say Apple needs to &∂∫å or get off the pot!
post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

I'm pretty much over Apple's communication skills.They need to be upfront with the Pro community! This silent treatment is just stupid! The fact that HP has the new machines on their site, and the fact that Apple has released no statements at all, just tells me they couldn't care less about the professional community. I'm really over that mentality! As a professional 3d modeler I need to make decisions about my business. I have way to much invested in Apple software to just jump to Windows unless there is no other choice. That's what I'm waiting to find out. The 2 year old machines they have on their site right now are simply not worth the asking price. I say Apple needs to &∂∫å or get off the pot!

You should really look at HP and Lenovo. Even with the older hardware, they still charge quite a lot. The same is true with Boxx. Sometimes you can put together a configuration that's a better value. HP is the only one that's been very verbal about next generation workstation builds, but even then I recall the gpu options coming from last year as new Quadros haven't come out, and I think it was only the Z1 that was announced. Even if they come out with a new machine today, it'll be another long wait after that as Ivy Bridge E is more than a year out currently. In fact as of right now, Ivy Bridge E is scheduled after the earlier Haswell stuff.

What software are you running with? I'd suggest that if you're considering a switch that you inquire with the software companies as to if any sidegrade options are available or if you can switch platforms with a license upgrade. Policies vary, so it would be helpful to know them. In terms of 3d modeling, I can't think of a single thing that isn't available on Windows. OpenGL performance in some cases is also better under Windows. It depends on the application.

Anyway I don't think the silent treatment is going anywhere, and personally at this point I'm not truly expecting anything to hit before the summer. As I mentioned they're not chasing fourth quarter purchases or anything of that sort. You should spread some of the blame to Intel though. They aren't helping.
post #16 of 34
First how many systems re actually shipping, note I said shipping, with Sandy Bridge E processors right now?

Second get over yourself you are no more important to Apple than the next customer. It does Apple no good to say anything until they have something to ship!!

Third you call yourself a Pro yet you come on this forum acting like a self absorbed child. We don't need that here. The Apple world does not revolve around you and never has.

As to your business I'd suggest packing up and shutting down. Grab yourself a shovel so that you can more efficiently toss that &∂∫å around that you are so fond of. I'm sure there are a few stables near buy looking for stall cleaners.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

I'm pretty much over Apple's communication skills.They need to be upfront with the Pro community! This silent treatment is just stupid! The fact that HP has the new machines on their site, and the fact that Apple has released no statements at all, just tells me they couldn't care less about the professional community. I'm really over that mentality! As a professional 3d modeler I need to make decisions about my business. I have way to much invested in Apple software to just jump to Windows unless there is no other choice. That's what I'm waiting to find out. The 2 year old machines they have on their site right now are simply not worth the asking price. I say Apple needs to &∂∫å or get off the pot!
post #17 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

First how many systems re actually shipping, note I said shipping, with Sandy Bridge E processors right now?

Second get over yourself you are no more important to Apple than the next customer. It does Apple no good to say anything until they have something to ship!!

Third you call yourself a Pro yet you come on this forum acting like a self absorbed child. We don't need that here. The Apple world does not revolve around you and never has.

As to your business I'd suggest packing up and shutting down. Grab yourself a shovel so that you can more efficiently toss that &∂∫å around that you are so fond of. I'm sure there are a few stables near buy looking for stall cleaners.

Your comments don't deserve my time or an answer, but thats what you can expect from most fanboys!
post #18 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

I've seen refurb prices close to or higher than new hardware before.

When it has higher specs (IE, a BTO machine), absolutely, but these match.

Quote:
Apple bases the refurb price on the original price of the machine, not what the current model is selling for.

Which would be the same that it has always been, as it's a Westmere model in both places. It's strange, to say the least.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Which would be the same that it has always been, as it's a Westmere model in both places. It's strange, to say the least.

I'm not sure what you mean there. There are some non westmere cpus still in use within the mac pro lineup. The 8 core model, the 6 core, and the 12 core are Westmere. The quads are based on the original nehalem spec rather than the die shrink. This is also true of other oems. Intel didn't really release a complete westmere update, then sandy bridge E was pushed back, so yeah the lineup is a bit awkward at this point. One of my concerns is that with as long as they've been out, how long after the new thing debuts before they're moved to legacy status? For the current generation I'd guess they'll probably see mountain lion and one update beyond that even though they're still current today. It's not so much of an issue unless you have to keep the OS up to date for certain software. Some of the smaller developers tend to drop support for older OS versions much faster.

Given that if they're using AMD gpus it seems like new ones are shipping about the end of this month, or NVidia would still be a short wait, my estimate of summer still seems valid. Given that it's already been a long time, I'd expect them to release it with Mountain Lion rather than Lion. It's really not that illogical. Had all of the cpus been available last fall, I could have seen them trying to push out an update for 2011, but Mountain Lion is kind of the next logical time, and all of the necessary hardware will be shipping in volume by that time.
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I'm not sure what you mean there. There are some non westmere cpus still in use within the mac pro lineup. The 8 core model, the 6 core, and the 12 core are Westmere.

Oh, yeah, sure, but the ones we're comparing are the top-end Westmere, which haven't had price drops (like the Nehalem). So it's strange to see a refurb cost more than a new of the same spec.

As for new OS', new hardware, new GPUs, and simultaneity, Mountain Lion has Radeon 97xx support, but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't ship with Lion.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

As for new OS', new hardware, new GPUs, and simultaneity, Mountain Lion has Radeon 97xx support, but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't ship with Lion.

I'd suggest that it depends how much Apple is trying to control their costs on the line. There's a lot of speculation on it getting killed, so they may try to minimize development costs and avoid having to update drivers too much. Much of the speculation is just blah blah kind of talk, but if they're waiting on gpus (and I think you mean 79xx not 97xx) or waiting on the latest thunderbolt chips, it wouldn't surprise me to see them roll out a Mac Pro starting with Mountain Lion if it only offsets shipping dates by a couple months. Obviously this is a guess. I doubt they're in a hurry on this, and Ivy Bridge E5s won't be out until next May or so. Refresh cycles look like they're going to be long no matter what. I mean they could bring machines out earlier. I'm just not counting on it.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

You should really look at HP and Lenovo. Even with the older hardware, they still charge quite a lot. The same is true with Boxx. Sometimes you can put together a configuration that's a better value. HP is the only one that's been very verbal about next generation workstation builds, but even then I recall the gpu options coming from last year as new Quadros haven't come out, and I think it was only the Z1 that was announced. Even if they come out with a new machine today, it'll be another long wait after that as Ivy Bridge E is more than a year out currently. In fact as of right now, Ivy Bridge E is scheduled after the earlier Haswell stuff.

What software are you running with? I'd suggest that if you're considering a switch that you inquire with the software companies as to if any sidegrade options are available or if you can switch platforms with a license upgrade. Policies vary, so it would be helpful to know them. In terms of 3d modeling, I can't think of a single thing that isn't available on Windows. OpenGL performance in some cases is also better under Windows. It depends on the application.

Anyway I don't think the silent treatment is going anywhere, and personally at this point I'm not truly expecting anything to hit before the summer. As I mentioned they're not chasing fourth quarter purchases or anything of that sort. You should spread some of the blame to Intel though. They aren't helping.

You just can't say to a guy to change everything that way. If he is a professional 3D modeler, it's not just switching computers. Do you know how much does a license of a 3D modeling software cost? This not counting to other types of software he needs for his work may it be for texturing, additional rendering engines, animation software and so on... It's not something one will do lightly. His point of view is perfectly understandable. There's too much money on the story! Also, Apple is really being a d!ck to it's Pro users just because iPhones and iPads are selling like fresh bread at the bakery by the morning! I love Apple products but they must change their attitude towards their older user base which includes many Pros and more savvy users who like to upgrade their machines and not throwing them out 2 years after purchase like you would to a worn out pair of shoes.
Just my 2 cents... Sorry if I "sounded" harsh.
post #23 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganHunter View Post

You just can't say to a guy to change everything that way. If he is a professional 3D modeler, it's not just switching computers. Do you know how much does a license of a 3D modeling software cost? This not counting to other types of software he needs for his work may it be for texturing, additional rendering engines, animation software and so on... It's not something one will do lightly. His point of view is perfectly understandable. There's too much money on the story! Also, Apple is really being a d!ck to it's Pro users just because iPhones and iPads are selling like fresh bread at the bakery by the morning! I love Apple products but they must change their attitude towards their older user base which includes many Pros and more savvy users who like to upgrade their machines and not throwing them out 2 years after purchase like you would to a worn out pair of shoes.
Just my 2 cents... Sorry if I "sounded" harsh.

This is very true. For instance I have more money sunk into plugins than my main software package is worth. I'm talking over $4000.00. thats just one package of plugin support. add another $2000. for the package itself plus all my support packages, and I think anyone can see why our community is upset.
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

This is very true. For instance I have more money sunk into plugins than my main software package is worth. I'm talking over $4000.00. thats just one package of plugin support. add another $2000. for the package itself plus all my support packages, and I think anyone can see why our community is upset.

Apple likes to keep its secrecy about unreleased products and I'm ok with that but on what Pro products is concerned I think it should be a little less tight lipped and let the Pro community know with same kind of advance how things are going to be.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganHunter View Post

You just can't say to a guy to change everything that way. If he is a professional 3D modeler, it's not just switching computers. Do you know how much does a license of a 3D modeling software cost? This not counting to other types of software he needs for his work may it be for texturing, additional rendering engines, animation software and so on... It's not something one will do lightly. His point of view is perfectly understandable. There's too much money on the story! Also, Apple is really being a d!ck to it's Pro users just because iPhones and iPads are selling like fresh bread at the bakery by the morning! I love Apple products but they must change their attitude towards their older user base which includes many Pros and more savvy users who like to upgrade their machines and not throwing them out 2 years after purchase like you would to a worn out pair of shoes.
Just my 2 cents... Sorry if I "sounded" harsh.

I know exactly what this stuff costs. I said if he's considering a switch like he suggested, he could do the research. It wouldn't take more than a couple hours of phone calls/emails at most, and if that alleviates some of his stress on the matter, it's probably worth it. These software developers have policies on this stuff. Without checking their policies, you have no idea if or how much they would charge you to trade an OSX license for a Windows one. Most of them don't list it, but will tell you if you email or call sales. I didn't tell him to go repurchase everything.

These things aren't all different software. Many of them have modeling/uv/texturing/animation tools. You get a base package. You buy additional stuff for any areas that suck, but he only mentioned doing modeling. Several of the major ones are bundled with rendering plugins that are quite good.

The other thing to mention here is that Apple has been going this route for close to a decade at this point. It's annoying, but the other oems have been mostly silent too. In the case of Apple, the bloggers in a quest for page hits have gotten everyone on edge with speculation that the machine may be going away.

Anyway you really are too snippy over this when I only suggested that he do his research if he considered this an option, and he's mentioned jumping to Windows in three threads now. Suggesting he review his options isn't in any way unreasonable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

This is very true. For instance I have more money sunk into plugins than my main software package is worth. I'm talking over $4000.00. thats just one package of plugin support. add another $2000. for the package itself plus all my support packages, and I think anyone can see why our community is upset.

Someone sounds like a Cinema4d user given that their packages are all modular.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

I think anyone can see why our community is upset.

I can't particularly, given that we've established the earliest Mac Pro update could have arrived 3 weeks ago at best.

Given that Apple has made a push for no optical drives, would they really continue to ship their highest-end machine with one? Also, Thunderbolt requires that the GPU be designed completely differently - if they don't support Thunderbolt, they can't have the Mac Pro support the Thunderbolt Cinema display properly.

This points to a major redesign and such a redesign requires an event. Specifically an event geared towards high-resource users. Seems to me, such an event might be coming up in about 10 weeks.

Now, while some may say that they don't do product intros at WWDC any more, last time the tower had a redesign they did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwsn27J_tlo

It's been 9 years with the same chassis and that design has run its course. They need to think about what is happening over the next decade and plan for it. The current design is not fit for purpose.

It makes absolute sense to ship it with Mountain Lion because it looks like it will finally support resolution independence.

The same thing happened with FCPX. Current users had been on the edge of their seats for years waiting for an update and then out of the blue it came. It didn't go down so well, Randy went to Antarctica for a while but we are in a new place now. I think the same will happen with the Mac Pro. Some users will be pissed that there's no 'high-end' features like PCI slots or a 5.25" drive bay but you either embrace change or you grow stale holding onto the past.
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganHunter View Post

Apple likes to keep its secrecy about unreleased products and I'm ok with that but on what Pro products is concerned I think it should be a little less tight lipped and let the Pro community know with same kind of advance how things are going to be.

Answer this question, what good does it do for Apple?

Let's say for example that the Mac Pro is going through a radical refactoring, that is a completely new design and concept. If that where to happen telling the competition 3-6 months ahead of time is rather stupid isn't it? More so customers would be wringing their hands for months, most likely about things they don't understand. Further without shipping hardware the product can be attacked by the competition well before it can be evaluated by the market.

This doesn't even take into account the risks in pre announcing hardware that has the potential to slip dramatically. Case in point Sandy Bridge E has slipped significantly to the point that Intel should be embarrassed. However supplied hardware is not the only risk in delivering a new machine. Slipped hardware delivery dates just lead to frustrated customers. As to the Mac Pro this SB-E slippage is rather obvious so I really have to question the sanity of anybody that is whining about when the new Mac Pro will arrive. It would be like someone demanding that Chevy ship them a new truck even though they don't have an engine ready to go in the truck.

Really guys I have to think people here getting so wrapped up in this machine and it's update or replacement, need to grab a hold of reality. The time to discuss the Mac Pros development is when the new model ships or it is canceled. Apple can't really concern itself with a few individuals with little grasp of the technical issues here.
post #28 of 34
More so they can't see the major changes that have been hitting the industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I can't particularly, given that we've established the earliest Mac Pro update could have arrived 3 weeks ago at best.

Exactly! Even if Apple had a hardware platform ready I'd doubt they would want to ship anything SB-E related without much testing. That due to the chips history.

That is just Sandy Bridge E, a significantly refactored Mac Pro would require testing with all other new hardware that it will be equipped with. Some of this hardware is also just hitting the market.
Quote:

Given that Apple has made a push for no optical drives, would they really continue to ship their highest-end machine with one? Also, Thunderbolt requires that the GPU be designed completely differently - if they don't support Thunderbolt, they can't have the Mac Pro support the Thunderbolt Cinema display properly.

If one takes into consideration all the changes in hardware design that have happened in the last two years, it is hard to believe they would ship another Pro based on the same old design. Especially considering how bad Pro sales have been.

Of course I was expecting a major refactoring of the Pro last year, but I'd rather think that Apple is working on getting the new hardware right before releasing to sales. In case anyone is wondering, yes it could take them years to bring an entirely new platform to us.
Quote:

This points to a major redesign and such a redesign requires an event. Specifically an event geared towards high-resource users. Seems to me, such an event might be coming up in about 10 weeks.

Well I'm not convinced of an event, but I'm very much in a major redesign camp. Frankly it is the only way for them to deliver a platform that will have a future of five or more years.
Quote:

Now, while some may say that they don't do product intros at WWDC any more, last time the tower had a redesign they did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwsn27J_tlo

Actually I suspect that they are setting us up for something at WWDC! They have already announced Mountain Lion, much of iOS is leaking out and HiDPI is on every bodies mind.
Quote:

It's been 9 years with the same chassis and that design has run its course. They need to think about what is happening over the next decade and plan for it. The current design is not fit for purpose.

Exactly, a modern attempt at a Pro computer would be radically different than the current Mac Pro.
Quote:

It makes absolute sense to ship it with Mountain Lion because it looks like it will finally support resolution independence.

What is important here is that resolution independence implies a major refactoring of the entire line up of Macs. It does makes me wonder if they will hold off the entire product line till WWDC. We are talking June 11th here.

If the " When is the new Pro coming" crowd is up in arms now, a wait to June will lead to a few minds exploding. I suspect that even iMac and Mini users will start to whine.
Quote:

The same thing happened with FCPX. Current users had been on the edge of their seats for years waiting for an update and then out of the blue it came. It didn't go down so well, Randy went to Antarctica for a while but we are in a new place now. I think the same will happen with the Mac Pro. Some users will be pissed that there's no 'high-end' features like PCI slots or a 5.25" drive bay but you either embrace change or you grow stale holding onto the past.

We will probably have the same number of people going ballistic over the new Mac Pros design as we did with FCPX. Like wise people will be so wrapped up in their disgust they won't be able to evaluate the product rationally. Instead they will go out and buy a 10U rack mounted computer and wonder why the graphics is so crappy.

Oh about those slots. I suspect that they will still be there, at least a couple. They might not be the slots of old though, I still see Apple moving towards PCI-Express based storage modules.
post #29 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

More so they can't see the major changes that have been hitting the industry.


Exactly! Even if Apple had a hardware platform ready I'd doubt they would want to ship anything SB-E related without much testing. That due to the chips history.

That is just Sandy Bridge E, a significantly refactored Mac Pro would require testing with all other new hardware that it will be equipped with. Some of this hardware is also just hitting the market.

If one takes into consideration all the changes in hardware design that have happened in the last two years, it is hard to believe they would ship another Pro based on the same old design. Especially considering how bad Pro sales have been.

Of course I was expecting a major refactoring of the Pro last year, but I'd rather think that Apple is working on getting the new hardware right before releasing to sales. In case anyone is wondering, yes it could take them years to bring an entirely new platform to us.

Well I'm not convinced of an event, but I'm very much in a major redesign camp. Frankly it is the only way for them to deliver a platform that will have a future of five or more years.

Actually I suspect that they are setting us up for something at WWDC! They have already announced Mountain Lion, much of iOS is leaking out and HiDPI is on every bodies mind.

Exactly, a modern attempt at a Pro computer would be radically different than the current Mac Pro.

What is important here is that resolution independence implies a major refactoring of the entire line up of Macs. It does makes me wonder if they will hold off the entire product line till WWDC. We are talking June 11th here.

If the " When is the new Pro coming" crowd is up in arms now, a wait to June will lead to a few minds exploding. I suspect that even iMac and Mini users will start to whine.


We will probably have the same number of people going ballistic over the new Mac Pros design as we did with FCPX. Like wise people will be so wrapped up in their disgust they won't be able to evaluate the product rationally. Instead they will go out and buy a 10U rack mounted computer and wonder why the graphics is so crappy.

Oh about those slots. I suspect that they will still be there, at least a couple. They might not be the slots of old though, I still see Apple moving towards PCI-Express based storage modules.

Well, this does make sense. Actually makes me fell a bit better. The thought of a pro grade product vanishing from the Mac line is unpleasant because I really don't want to go to Windows. So then if nothing is announced by WWDC, then is it pretty much over?
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

Well, this does make sense. Actually makes me fell a bit better. The thought of a pro grade product vanishing from the Mac line is unpleasant because I really don't want to go to Windows. So then if nothing is announced by WWDC, then is it pretty much over?

You have no reason to believe it's over. I've already told you other oems aren't that much more vocal. I'm not sure what else to tell you. Nothing anyone says on here will make even a slight difference in what actually happens. All they're giving you is logical guesses, but until something ships and you've verified it'll work for you (for example gpu driver bugs don't make your software crash or cause weird texture blooming or anything of that sort, speaking of which if you're using something by Autodesk, it'll probably be several months before they actually certify anything), all of this is meaningless, including rumors. The update may not even be as big of a step up as you would like from your current hardware. I think we'll see Sandy Bridge E5s and the latest AMD card running mountain lion, but like I said, my predictions don't mean anything until there is a shipping product.

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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


The same thing happened with FCPX. Current users had been on the edge of their seats for years waiting for an update and then out of the blue it came. It didn't go down so well, Randy went to Antarctica for a while but we are in a new place now. I think the same will happen with the Mac Pro. Some users will be pissed that there's no 'high-end' features like PCI slots or a 5.25" drive bay but you either embrace change or you grow stale holding onto the past.

It's a matter of if a corresponding workflow via thunderbolt is available. If not I imagine most of them would delay purchases. This isn't uncommon. G5 PCI express from PCIX delayed purchases whenever people required some kind of interface. eSATA was much more common at that time given smaller drives and fewer internal bays. The wait for universal binary or Intel versions of applications motivated purchasing delays with things that couldn't fully operate through Rosetta, not that Apple did a bad job with Rosetta. It's just that it's normal to wait things out at times like this. In the case of FCPX the most vocal complaint seemed to be multicam editing or lack of it at the time of release. Like I said, it's normal to wait these things out after a big change. They'd only switch if something couldn't be worked around a year or more later. I don't think people are quite as finicky as you suggest.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


If the " When is the new Pro coming" crowd is up in arms now, a wait to June will lead to a few minds exploding. I suspect that even iMac and Mini users will start to whine.


We will probably have the same number of people going ballistic over the new Mac Pros design as we did with FCPX. Like wise people will be so wrapped up in their disgust they won't be able to evaluate the product rationally. Instead they will go out and buy a 10U rack mounted computer and wonder why the graphics is so crappy.

Oh about those slots. I suspect that they will still be there, at least a couple. They might not be the slots of old though, I still see Apple moving towards PCI-Express based storage modules.

I mentioned something about FCPX already. Anyway the forums aren't really a good random sampling. Apple has done a lot of annoying things for years, and yet people continue to buy from them. I don't see it changing anytime soon. The primary irritation on hardware seems to be the notion of compromise in favor of aesthetics.

Outside of the mac sites, you really don't hear a lot of the "when are the new mac pros coming?" rhetoric, even when you know plenty of mac pro users with 2008 or 2009 machines. I find the hatred of pci slots somewhat irrational. If they go away, people will simply wait until an updated solution becomes available via thunderbolt or whatever (although the bandwidth difference is still there). If a solution to their problem doesn't surface a year after that, that's when Apple might start to see heavy migration.

Apple has definitely been pushing the laptops the past couple years. The one thing I still can't understand there is why they haven't done much to bring down temperatures. Extremely warm keys and constant fans become really irritating after a while, yet every one of them seems to exhibit this behavior when run moderately hard. I've read quite a few suggestions.... thermal paste is bad, fans get clogged easily, etc. I'm surprised Apple never addressed this in their design updates as the topic seems to come up frequently.
post #31 of 34
I find it hard to believe that Apple would kill the MP and make the iMac the top end machine. I do think we may see a smaller tower coming soon perhaps. I know Jony Ive has some brilliant ideas brewing and to be able to just flip through a binder of those would be a sight in and of itself.
post #32 of 34
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Answer this question, what good does it do for Apple?

Let's say for example that the Mac Pro is going through a radical refactoring, that is a completely new design and concept. If that where to happen telling the competition 3-6 months ahead of time is rather stupid isn't it? More so customers would be wringing their hands for months, most likely about things they don't understand. Further without shipping hardware the product can be attacked by the competition well before it can be evaluated by the market.

This doesn't even take into account the risks in pre announcing hardware that has the potential to slip dramatically. Case in point Sandy Bridge E has slipped significantly to the point that Intel should be embarrassed. However supplied hardware is not the only risk in delivering a new machine. Slipped hardware delivery dates just lead to frustrated customers. As to the Mac Pro this SB-E slippage is rather obvious so I really have to question the sanity of anybody that is whining about when the new Mac Pro will arrive. It would be like someone demanding that Chevy ship them a new truck even though they don't have an engine ready to go in the truck.

Really guys I have to think people here getting so wrapped up in this machine and it's update or replacement, need to grab a hold of reality. The time to discuss the Mac Pros development is when the new model ships or it is canceled. Apple can't really concern itself with a few individuals with little grasp of the technical issues here.

I think you may have missed my point. I think they should release some info not the details. With some info I mean, looking at current situation of many time without updates, if the product is on the roadmap or not. They don't need to say if it's just a typical update or if it's a redesigned product. Still, I understand your point of view and I hope you don't see me as someone with lack of reasonableness. There's a lot of people on the pro segment which work structure relies on Apple machines and OS X software and if you, for a moment, get into their shoes you'll be concerned how painful can be standing on uncertainty.
post #33 of 34
However I still believe nothing good can come from Apple spilling the beans before hardware is fiapnalized and ready to ship. The computer industry especially has a significant history of companies doing such and then weeks later being in the dog house when something goes wrong.

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Originally Posted by LoganHunter View Post

I think you may have missed my point. I think they should release some info not the details. With some info I mean, looking at current situation of many time without updates, if the product is on the roadmap or not.

Product of some sort is on the roadmap! This is the problem I have, all this hand wringing is a fabrication of over active imaginations. There is nothing I've seen that idicates that Apple will give up completely on the desktop market. By this time though they must realize that the current desktop line up sucks.
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They don't need to say if it's just a typical update or if it's a redesigned product. Still, I understand your point of view and I hope you don't see me as someone with lack of reasonableness.

Maybe it isn't so much reasonableness as rather a lack of historical knowledge of the computer industry. Many a company has been hit hard by announcing a product then not delivering on that promise. In the old days vapor ware was a common term.

This doesn't even address the separate issue of tipping your hat to the competition.
Quote:

There's a lot of people on the pro segment which work structure relies on Apple machines and OS X software and if you, for a moment, get into their shoes you'll be concerned how painful can be standing on uncertainty.

Believe me I understand the importance of the hardware and software. How ever much of what we hear in this forum about Pro hardware appears to have been pulled from the thin air. Really it is a proverbial making a mountain out of a molehill. It would be far better if people where to just relax and reflect upon the positive qualities that a new platform would bring to the desktop line up,
post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Product of some sort is on the roadmap!

Is on the roadmap? How can you be so certain? I hope you're right.

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By this time though they must realize that the current desktop line up sucks.

I'm not so sure... Apple attitude shows that they think their desktop line up is perfect which is not.


Quote:
Maybe it isn't so much reasonableness as rather a lack of historical knowledge of the computer industry. Many a company has been hit hard by announcing a product then not delivering on that promise. In the old days vapor ware was a common term.

Again, I didn't say anything about announcing products or market that the product will do this or that . I just said, given the fact that the last update was so long ago, that they should IMHO say something to the REAL pro users which I'm sure Apple knows who they are. When you say you're doing something you can say just that "I'm doing something" you don't need to say anything about it. Yes, it teases people but it doesn't let them in the dark so much.

Quote:
Believe me I understand the importance of the hardware and software. How ever much of what we hear in this forum about Pro hardware appears to have been pulled from the thin air. Really it is a proverbial making a mountain out of a molehill. It would be far better if people where to just relax and reflect upon the positive qualities that a new platform would bring to the desktop line up,

Well... that's kind of unavoidable. You know people likes to make predictions. I agree people should "relax and reflect upon the positive qualities that a new platform would bring to the desktop line up" but... will that new platform really is going to exist?
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