Australian government accuses Apple of 'misleading' 4G claims with new iPad - Page 2

So this latest Apple is evil melodrama is quibbling over the fact that they didn't say, "4G not available in Australia" vice "4G is only available in the US and Canada" - wow.

So we agree that Apple should just come out and plainly say in bold type "4G services not available for Australia" rather than the unclear and confusing statements they make in the features description.

And yes, of course a purchaser can return one if dissatisfied. I think Apple is using the potential 4G feature as a selling point to get them into a buyer's hands. They're hoping (probably correctly) that most who might be disappointed to find no 4G won't also make it enough of an issue to return it, even tho some percentage might not have ordered it in the first place if known that 4G isn't a feature for them.

If the iPad had a particular function that would only work in the UK and no where else in the world, is it right that Apple should advertise it around the world with a little small print saying that it will only work in the UK?

I think it's a little North American bias, to say stop complaining when Apple introduces and advertises functions that are "ahead of the game" when they're not accessible anywhere but USA and Canada. If it was the other way around, you would be annoyed that they're advertising something you have no access to

All 3 major carriers in Australia will run 4G over 1800 mhz which is not supported on iPad 3rd Gen.

I also think this is poor form by apple. Telstra is spending a lot of money advertising their 4G network. Many will think that an iPad wifi + 4G will work on the 4G network and will be disappointed to find out it won't.

(Optus also is rolling out services at 900mhz and 2300mhz - not sure if they will both carry 4G)

My iPhone 4S says 4G in the status bar when it's clearly not a 4G device. Is that misleading? Should the US govt be on Apple's case for it?

Funny you mention cars. When I had Jaguar XJS in the UK before I emigrated to the US, it had 160 on the speedometer and in Germany I did get it up to 140 and there was more under the pedal, I just chickened out . However, in the UK at the time I was there the limit was 70 so Jaguar should have advertised it as having a maximum speed of 70? That would be pretty bad

Or perhaps a small label stating in certain countries the product cannot achieve its maximum potential due to limitations imposed by that country, not the device, might be a better solution.

Meanwhile where are those sheilas that are supposed to appear when I drink Fosters?

And as it states right under the ad on the Australian site, which is the same as the US and Canada sites,

And on the Australian iPad Store, it clearly lets you choose a model and further states:

This is a world-wide launch. Attempting to satisfy all the idiosyncrasies for every country and having to modify each and every time it changed would be ludicrous. One would think that Aussies never leave their continent.

And this is a country (as all countries) that post laws such as:

P.S. No one is immune from such stupidity.

By the way, my car has a top speed of 220 km/hr. Should it have a sticker on it that states, "Not in your driveway".

So now you're reduced to claiming it's not in sufficiently bold type - how about if Apple adds a large red sticker on the box that says, "4G only available in US and Canada"? Make you happy than? Also, can you point out where Australians consumers who purchased the iPad are now complaining that they got hood-winked by the advertising? Did this government agency take action because of consumer complaints?

4G is not a technology, it's a category of technologies. LTE is one technology in that category but not the only one. HSPA+ is another one and Australia has it.

Yes, 2 years ago HSPA+ was categorised only as 3.5G, but then the ITU changed the classifications and now it is officially 4G.

Look at the photo that was posted with the article "UP TO" 4g speeds. That doesn't equal 4g anymore than "up to 10 hours" equals that you will always get 10 hours. That additional note likely clarifies just as they did in the keynote, that LTE is only in the US. Making the claims of confusion a tad false. Especially since you can always ask in the store and they will tell you that it is 3g only in that area.

Nor does it exclude the phone companies from advertising and describing incompatible technologies under the umbrella term "4G", and yet I see predictably few complaints about that in this thread...

I agree. The iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz frequencies which is used in the United States and Canada for 4G LTE networking. The present and future 4G networks in Europe will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands.

The cellular-enable iPad should be labeled accordingly, i.e. '3G' worldwide and '4G' in the United States and Canada.

Question for you: Should stating that 4G is available only in North America be more than a footnote? Apparently the Aussie government isn't of the opinion that it's sufficient notice or they wouldn't threaten an injunction

If you buy it somewhere else and travel to the US, it suddenly becomes 4G compatible and you CAN use it on 4G i.e. it is 4G.

btw, what about parts of the world with only 2G available, would they need another disclaimer?

Please. That's no different than if you sued Apple for selling you an iPad in an American city not covered by 4G LTE service. The iPad contains 4G LTE hardware. So you say it's wrong to call it what it is? Then it must be wrong to advertise the iPad as having tethering capabilities because some networks don't allow tethering.

Not true. the iPad only works with LTE in NA but there are a number of 3g nets that operate at speeds that can be defined as 4g and the iPad works fine with those in several countries. Just as the iPhone 4 and 4s do. Australia is very possibly one of that several

It's a terminology definition issue same as many folks only consider 1080p to be HD (and some only if the audio and bitrate are blu-ray standard) when use of the term for 720p is totally legit

There's no place on Apple's website where it says that the iPad works with LTE in Australia and several where it says that it doesn't work with that flavor in the US. The TV ads don't claim it works with LTE in said country either. So this is based on it being called the '4g' iPad and that's thin

Why not, it's acceptable practice for anything else that's advertised in Australia.

If I buy a 4G handset from Telstra, which is advertised as such in large lettering, should I be able to sue because I know it won't work in my area?

1. it works on 3g

2. if that it doesn't work on 4g is such a big deal (and they missed all the warnings) then they just return it. Apple will take it back for at least 14 days after purchase in every country.

Actually, for people like this, Apple can do no right unless it adopts Android and makes bigger phones and smaller tablets and sells at negative profits. Period.

The United Kingdom, European Union and I think that a product should be marketed in accordance with the country in which it is sold.

your iPhone says that because it is a 4g device. It just isn't an LTE device. But it is a legit status based on the actual definition of 4g which is based on speed and not style. Your iPhone was in an area with the required speed to be termed 4g

Personally I think simply telling a buyer on their country-specific Apple site what the iPad features are for their own country should be sufficient. Other than in a small-type footnote, Apple avoided doing that in Australia. I've no doubt that the failure to tell consumers is at least a partial reason for the ACCC's action.

The ad looks misleading as hell. 4G around the world? Since when is North America "Around the world"?

I find it offensive that my tax dollars are being wasted by a nanny state Government department who seem to think that people here are illiterate retards.

C'mon, ACCC, this isn't the USA.

How many labels do you want?


Talk about 'misleading', are the Aussie's suing their own?

The pictured ad says LTE. Next?

You do know what, "…up to" means?

My bad. I thought you would.

So then you're saying that a small footnote at the bottom of a page is more than sufficient notice to a buyer that the 4G referenced by Apple isn't 4G for them. Do I have that correct?

Perhaps you should look into doing an English comprehension course so that you can understand what the wording in that advertisement is actually saying.

I am sure that anyone who thinks they have been tricked into buying a new iPad in Australia, can take it back to an Apple store and get a full refund. It is what it is. My Internet service provider sells me a plan that gets up to 30Mbs down and 5Mbs up speeds. I have never seen anything above 23. If I bother to read the small print and understand the technology, I will become aware that 30Mbs is not guaranteed. Maybe Apple should stop selling products in Australia and then no one would be fooled into buying something they really are not getting. Looks like some of the stupidity of the U.S. government is leaking over to Australia.

That ad is not from Australia, it is from the US site:
http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/

Here is the equivalent Australia page, it just mentions wireless:
http://www.apple.com/au/ipad/features/

And here is an earlier version of the Aus page, which only said 4G, never LTE:
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/articl...ry_australia_/

And the official ACCC complaint (linked in the article) has no mention of LTE, the complaint is about the marketing term "WiFi + 4G."

The appropriate amount used as necessary.

Furthermore, Orange's 4G LTE network will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands whereas the iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz bands. Therefore, the iPad is incompatible with present and future 4G LTE networks in Europe.

Apple has since updated the ad to satisfy those that don't fully understand the idiosyncacies of the English language. Which is in most cases, Americans.

Hatorguy, a footnote is fine because 4G services (HSPA+) are available (as per the ITU definition). As long as they aren't selling it as an LTE device in Australia, what's the problem?

When I bought my new iPad, the AT&T version didn't come with disclaimers saying 4G wasn't supported in my area, even though their nearest LTE city is a few hundred miles away. (And, yes, I got the Verizon version instead. It's called doing your homework.)

Apple have obviously realised the way they were using the term "4G" in Australia was causing confusion and have started removing it from their site. That is very nice of them, but they shouldn't be sued.

Apple were in fact using the term correctly all along, and it is Australians who use the term in contradiction of international standards. Apple should send the ACCC a link to the ITU website, and then sue them for costs and libel.

Then they are doing the right thing. Misleading advertising is not a sound business strategy in the long run.

In Italy, in the first days after the new iPad launch, the ads of the mobile phone operators were misleading since they advertised 4G LTE capabilities of the new iPad, while the LTE frequencies used in the US are different and the new iPad cannot connect to LTE networks in Europe.

After a few days, the ads were changed: all references to LTE have been removed, and now they only mention HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA.

This and several similar cases, are an example of Apple being held to a higher standard than other similar companies.

But honestly, I genuinely think it is fair to hold Apple to a higher standard. This is one of those cases where Apple slipped up. Other companies can maybe rely on fine print and disclaimers, but Apple should not resort to such a defense. "Think Different" is applicable here too. This just is not Apple's way of doing things, and someone somewhere slipped up big time.

I think one option for Apple is to offer an additional 14 day window, so that customers who have an issue with the connectivity will have the choice to return the device. And to make it even more clear, Apple can issue a recall for all the Wifi+4G iPads in Australia - stating clearly that the device is not capable of meeting Australian 4G standards. And when customers bring in the device, they can offer to either put a 3G sticker over the 4G label, or return the device for a full refund, or sign a disclaimer that they customers accepts that the device is not capable of 4G and still wants to keep it, and has rejected the recall offer.

The fact is, while this is a major screw up by Apple, most Australians realize that there will not be an iPad anytime soon that will support Australian 4G networks. They would anyway buy the same device irrespective of what it is called. Any additional return window, or a recall, will not really cost Apple anything significant.

But Apple should treat this as a valuable lesson - they have to be prepared to be held to a higher standard in terms of customer satisfaction, marketing, etc. Such a screw up could easily boomerang into a major issue for Apple considering how large its launches are.

So how many labels do you want?

And now:

I'm still not seeing any change in wording on the Australian Apple store site
http://store.apple.com/au/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad

Not even a footnote that 4G isn't available to Australian's purchasing the iPad 4G.