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Apple says iPad battery charging works as intended

post #1 of 75
Thread Starter 
Responding to a recent analysis of the new iPad's battery, Apple has revealed that its charging system works as intended to ensure an optimum charge.

Concerns about the iPad's battery arose last week when an analysis was publicized claiming that the new iPad "prematurely" reports that it is fully charged by two hours. Dr. Raymond Soneira of DisplayMate claimed that the iPad actually finished its charging cycle some two hours after it reports a full charge.

That's by design, Apple's Michael Tchao said to All Things D on Tuesday. All iOS devices, including the new iPad, will display that they are 100 percent charged just before the device reaches a fully charged state. The device will then continue charging, then discharge a bit, and recharge once again — a cycle that will continue until the device is unplugged.

"That circuitry is designed so you can keep your device plugged in as long as you would like," Tchao said. "it's a great feature that's always been in iOS."

Apple's battery percentage display is simplified so that users are not confused by the constant cycle of charging and discharging while a device is plugged in. But Apple's approach allows all of its iOS devices to maximize their potential battery life.




Apple has boasted that the new iPad offers the same 10-hour battery life as its predecessor, even with the inclusion of a new quad-core graphics processor and 3.1-million pixel Retina Display. The new high-speed 4G LTE model also offers 9 hours of battery life when using a wireless network.

In particular, the Verizon model of the new 4G LTE iPad can serve as a mobile hotspot for more than 24 hours when sharing a high-speed data connection with external devices over Wi-Fi. That's upwards of five times longer than most standalone 4G LTE hotspots.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 75
But the experts said it was a bug...
post #3 of 75
Amazing all the things Apple has to do to educate the market in response to those looking to find fault with their new products.
post #4 of 75
Apple is doomed!
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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post #5 of 75
But..but.. the iHaters and trolls need SOMETHING to bait to criticize Apple for! What is this world coming to?????
post #6 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

But the experts said it was a bug...

What makes them an expert.

Apple said you can get up to 10 hours on a charge. If 100% as indicated gives you that, where is the issue. Where is Apple at fault for over promising etc

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #7 of 75
Actually, I found the information that has come out regarding the charge cycle quite informative and useful.

Now there is an answer for those wondering why they only get 7-8 hours of battery time.

You guys need to take a chill pill.
post #8 of 75
It's called auto trickle charging kids, nothing new here to see, been around forever.
post #9 of 75
I for one like to know things like this and appreciate the critique. Simplification is also good to an extent, but things like this belong in an instruction manual somewhere. It's human nature to be inquisitive and understand how things work, and that's a good thing.
post #10 of 75
Doesn't that 24 hour wifi hotspot figure need some qualification? Judging by my wifi LTE hotspot, it has a standby time of close to 24 hours however the awake/in-use battery life is only about 4-6. Of course my battery is only the size of a Fig Newton.

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post #11 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

What makes them an expert.

Apple said you can get up to 10 hours on a charge. If 100% as indicated gives you that, where is the issue. Where is Apple at fault for over promising etc

I love these rare slaps in the face by Apple(when they expose a particular author as clueless).

It's a great little feature(trickle charging) and apparently one oblivious to tech blogs.
post #12 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

What makes them an expert.

Apple said you can get up to 10 hours on a charge. If 100% as indicated gives you that, where is the issue. Where is Apple at fault for over promising etc

Actually, you have it backwards. Apple didn't overpromise, they overdelivered.

According to some reports I've seen, if you unplug your iPad as soon as it hits 100%, you get 10 hours (as promised). If you leave it plugged in for a few more hours, you get 11-12 hours.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #13 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

According to some reports I've seen, if you unplug your iPad as soon as it hits 100%, you get 10 hours (as promised). If you leave it plugged in for a few more hours, you get 11-12 hours.

Again 11-12 hours of what? Gaming, wifi, movies?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #14 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

Amazing all the things Apple has to do to educate the market in response to those looking to find fault with their new products.

As sickeningly pathetic as it is it's also not a bad place to be as it's a clear sign that Apple is so far ahead of the competition.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #15 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Again 11-12 hours of what? Gaming, wifi, movies?

Searching the web on wifi, watching videos or listening to music
post #16 of 75
You guys are missing the point. The new iPad says it is 100% charged when it is obviously not. You can still have trickle charging take place, but the percentage should still reflect that it's feeding the new iPad less juice (ex. 96%-100% will take a considerably longer amount of time).

Insider source says internal quota for charge time had to be met, so they 'modified' the display computer to have it say 100% before it was done charging). Easy, huh?

If you want a real answer, do a test with an iPad 1 and iPad 2 and see if it has the same behavior in the percentage display...
post #17 of 75
My MBP does the same thing when I have it plugged in. The battery indicator goes from 100% to 97% then back up all day long. Too bad these "experts" aren't very knowledgable.
post #18 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

But the experts said it was a bug...

A scandal worthy of -gate proportions!

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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #19 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

Amazing all the things Apple has to do to educate the market in response to those looking to find fault with their new products.

It seems to me these guys are out for public acknowledgement more than anything. It is more of a "look at me, I'm so smart" kinda play. It is like the obsession with the power draw of the unit which is very dependent upon the backlight. It is pretty common knowledge that for a given technology smaller pixels require more light intensity in the backlight.

Apple just rose to the occasion to deliver the best possible results in this display and made no excuses for the additional power draw. That people want to turn this engineering feat into a negative is curious to say the least.
post #20 of 75
Why not have it read 100% when it is actually at 100%, after the trickle charge? Then let it stay at 100% despite the discharge/charge cycle mentioned here to not confuse people. I don't think this is a big deal whatsoever, but this explanation doesn't make a ton of sense..

I believe this may be a very slight deception by Apple to make it appear to charge faster- which would likely be a point on the iPad's reviews (considering the much larger battery). Granted, it is somewhat justified by Apple- that last 2 hours is a trickle charge done for the health of the battery- they could make it charge much faster at the expense of the battery.

Again, file this one under 'no story here'.. but sort of interesting none-the-less.
post #21 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Searching the web on wifi, watching videos or listening to music


Ok. I am going to test it. I will write a script that searches Google and every time it brings back the results I will select at random a word on the page and do another search. l'll be repeating that every 5 seconds. I will set the auto lock to never on the iPad and let her rip. After it shuts down, I'll check my server logs to see the time of the last access of that script to determine the battery life. That should work.

I'll report back later.

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post #22 of 75
All iOS devices, including the new iPad, will display that they are 100 percent charged just before the device reaches a fully charged state.

Hm, I'm guessing an hour and a half of additional charging is JUST before it reaches full charge?
post #23 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Doesn't that 24 hour wifi hotspot figure need some qualification? Judging by my wifi LTE hotspot, it has a standby time of close to 24 hours however the awake/in-use battery life is only about 4-6. Of course my battery is only the size of a Fig Newton.

The only qualification it needs is "when the screen is turned off." The tests showed it could serve up LTE to clients as a wi-fi hotspot for over 24 hours of active use. Standby time is weeks if you're not using the data or screen.
post #24 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, you have it backwards. Apple didn't overpromise, they overdelivered.

I suspect it is more of a case of covering variability in manufacturing and normal age related regression. In other words Apple wants to make sure the battery lasts a respectable time and that the user experience doesn't suffer a month or two down the road after a few recharge cycles.
Quote:

According to some reports I've seen, if you unplug your iPad as soon as it hits 100%, you get 10 hours (as promised). If you leave it plugged in for a few more hours, you get 11-12 hours.

This is possible and frankly probably varies a bit from battery to battery. The performance of batteries is seldom identical from one unit to another. Close yes but that only counts in horse shoes. This variability is often seen in iPhone batteries too.
post #25 of 75
So you'd rather your battery indicator constantly bounce around from 99-100 over and over throughout the auto trickle charging process? Umm....no, that's stupid. The way it works is, once you've reached a threshold, you're then at 100%. This point is also only reached once the battery is charged fully, then and only then do you enter an ATC state. ATC does not exist before the battery below 100%, only after.
post #26 of 75
It's Michael.
post #27 of 75
When the device gets to 100% you get the specified run time, so where is the deception? As to charging batteries you have an extremely simplistic view of things here, charging LiPo batteries is a complex subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uninterested_Viewer View Post

Why not have it read 100% when it is actually at 100%, after the trickle charge? Then let it stay at 100% despite the discharge/charge cycle mentioned here to not confuse people. I don't think this is a big deal whatsoever, but this explanation doesn't make a ton of sense..

The explanation is likely to try to keep things simple and not pull a bunch of technical jargon into the discussion. More so you don't normally "trickle charge" LiPo batteries.
Quote:

I believe this may be a very slight deception by Apple to make it appear to charge faster- which would likely be a point on the iPad's reviews (considering the much larger battery). Granted, it is somewhat justified by Apple- that last 2 hours is a trickle charge done for the health of the battery- they could make it charge much faster at the expense of the battery.

As I said above charging LiPo batteries is a complex subject, unfortunately people like simple explanations. For example every modern Li battery charger takes into account the thermal state of the battery. This is the case on my battery operated power tools and many of the hobby uses for these batteries.
Quote:

Again, file this one under 'no story here'.. but sort of interesting none-the-less.

Well it is a story but I'm sadden to see you say there is deception going on here. I really don't believe that is the case. At best I can offer up this, read some of the engineering literature out there related to Li battery charging. Doing that might turn your opinion around a bit. I'm suture Apple could get one of its engineers to post an explanation but I'd really doubt that it would do the public any good.
post #28 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Ok. I am going to test it. I will write a script that searches Google and every time it brings back the results I will select at random a word on the page and do another search. l'll be repeating that every 5 seconds. I will set the auto lock to never on the iPad and let her rip. After it shuts down, I'll check my server logs to see the time of the last access of that script to determine the battery life. That should work.

I'll report back later.

Just curious: how will you script that? Is that even possible (without jailbreaking your iPad)?
post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Standby time is weeks if you're not using the data or screen.

Off topic: they removed the iPad's standby time for this 3rd generation. I can't imagine that it's now less than the 30 days with a 70% larger battery. I have to assume it's about 70% longer. So what other reason is there to not just continue to state 30 days but remove it altogether? I wonder if it's because it so long that it became an unneeded metric.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #30 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by msechea View Post

If you want a real answer, do a test with an iPad 1 and iPad 2 and see if it has the same behavior in the percentage display...

My iPad 2 and iPhone 4S have this quality as well. I usually leave these things plugged in all night, and I was sometimes surprised to see how long these devices stayed at "100%" when I start using them after such an event. (Ah ha!) So I am inclined to believe this explanation from the Apple guy who claimed this happened across all iOS devices. The way I see it, Apple has defined a "100% charged level" - kind of like the start of the red zone on a car's RPM dial - and the battery can oscillate above it if the device is left on charge. I have no problem with this as long as I get at least the advertised performance regardless of where the battery is in the trickling cycle when I take it off the charger.

Thompson
post #31 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

Just curious: how will you script that? Is that even possible (without jailbreaking your iPad)?

Web page most likely.
post #32 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

Amazing all the things Apple has to do to educate the market in response to those looking to find fault with their new products.

It always amazes me how much thought Apple puts into their products. Most companies would go for the quick easy fix, and then warn you not to leave their device on charge more than x-odd hours. Apple instead thought of a way to allow you to leave your device plugged in as long as you like, very smart. People who don't think as much react with, "foul" instead of considering that there was a good reason for the behavior observed.
post #33 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkerst View Post

So you'd rather your battery indicator constantly bounce around from 99-100 over and over throughout the auto trickle charging process? Umm....no, that's stupid. The way it works is, once you've reached a threshold, you're then at 100%. This point is also only reached once the battery is charged fully, then and only then do you enter an ATC state. ATC does not exist before the battery below 100%, only after.

Furthermore, by the earlier descriptions, it seems like Apple's delta between min and max of the ATC process (if that's really what they are using) is greater than just 1% of the max.

Even more reason to suppress the changing of the indicator.

Thompson
post #34 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Well it is a story but I'm sadden to see you say there is deception going on here. I really don't believe that is the case. At best I can offer up this, read some of the engineering literature out there related to Li battery charging. Doing that might turn your opinion around a bit. I'm suture Apple could get one of its engineers to post an explanation but I'd really doubt that it would do the public any good.

Well, I'm more than willing to admit I know very little about battery technology. I'm just confused as to how having the battery display 100% when the battery is at 95% or less of its full charge can be talked away by a technical explanation. It seems like Apple made a judgement decision in its battery logic for this behavior- is there a technical reason Apple couldn't have had it read 100% when the battery was actually at 100%? (of course, fully support it staying at 100% when it is going through its discharge/charge cycle- I'm only concerned with that initial threshold for "100%")

I don't necessarily mean 'deception' in a negative sense- from the little I know, it seems to be a good, simple, solution for the consumer. Again, I fully admit I'm probably making the battery experts around here cringe .
post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Off topic: they removed the iPad's standby time for this 3rd generation. I can't imagine that it's now less than the 30 days with a 70% larger battery. I have to assume it's about 70% longer. So what other reason is there to not just continue to state 30 days but remove it altogether? I wonder if it's because it so long that it became an unneeded metric.

I've noticed this about the standby time. Typically, whatever the remaining charge was when I put it down the night before, is pretty much what it still is when I pick it up the next day.
post #36 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside_line View Post

I for one like to know things like this and appreciate the critique. Simplification is also good to an extent, but things like this belong in an instruction manual somewhere. It's human nature to be inquisitive and understand how things work, and that's a good thing.

Dead on, IL.
I have google studied cadmium, lithium etc batteries over the years. Cads had to be drained and fully recharged. No question, it seems, if I remember correctly or corruptly.
Lithiums can and should be fully recharged occasionally but at other times abusing by partial charges seems important for their health. The figuring, again if I get this correctly and not corruptly, is that the ions need to flow forwards (out in usage) and inwards (recharging) on a regular basis to maximise life and strength.
Apple's system seems to answer the problem of over charging when left forgotten plugged in. I vape ecigs and I find that a few moments recharge throughout the day keeps the battery healthier than fully discharging them between full charges. I even like to unplug part way through a charge and draw a few vapes before finalising the charge.
Yup, batters are confusing and it is always good to get new info. I didn't know of Apple's charging-discharging application to the over charge problem and I agree, knowledge is king. I know Apple likes to keep things simple, but there are many like ye and me who are interested in such things.

As always, I stand for correction in my ruminations.

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

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When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

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post #37 of 75
The battery increased about 70% in capacity but the charge rate is kept the same (same charger). So now it takes longer to charge the ipad 3 vs ipad 2. I was hoping a bigger charger for the ipad to keep the charging time the same.
post #38 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

Amazing all the things Apple has to do to educate the market in response to those looking to find fault with their new products.

post #39 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

I've noticed this about the standby time. Typically, whatever the remaining charge was when I put it down the night before, is pretty much what it still is when I pick it up the next day.

If before you could get 30 days on standby that would be 3% per day. If we assume that 70% larger battery equals 70% longer standby time (I'm not sure of the increased mAh negate that somewhat) then we get 51 days, or under 2% per 24 hour period. So if we consider that you sleep 1/3 of that period it would be about .66% which means the odds of you seeing it switch from being at greater than xx.49% to less than xx.50% (what I assume is how the percentages are calculated) is quite low.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #40 of 75
There is nothing to see here, move along. This is just some ignorant people who were wrong about Apple once again. Heatgate was bogus and now batterygate turns out to be completely bogus and untrue.

People who are part of ignorantgate should look into getting a clue, and do it quickly, for your own sakes. The moronic media is not much better than the idiots who propagate these stupid rumors. And anybody who falls for these dumb rumors and lies is frankly not too bright.
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