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Foxconn workers question why hours are being cut after FLA review - Page 2

post #41 of 206
If workers can't work enough hours to make a good living and so quit, it may force Foxconn to pay them more to compensate or risk a high turnover and quality problems from the loss of trained labor. Or maybe not. Maybe it'll just hire more workers from the seemingly endless supply. So it could end up actually caring less about the welfare of its workers' families.
post #42 of 206
I just love Chinese workers, they actually want to worker longer ours for me , and boy they are so cheap. What the hell is wrong with that! I make lots of money and they love it.








































tongue in cheek!

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Originally Posted by Rickers - 2014

Cook & Co will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost for so long.  Steve == Apple and Apple == Steve.  

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post #43 of 206
Damn Apple! Depriving these people of the overtime they need to properly provide for their families. We need to organize and get a petition started that will force Apple to end these tyrannical practices.
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post #44 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

They can blame righteous Americans..

Don't you mean "blame righteous Progressive, codename for Liberal, Americans.."?

You know, the people who stir up the pot and make a bigger mess that they never clean up and then they move on (dot org) gleefully knowing their karma has been boosted for saving the day once again while ignoring those it effects.

Kind of like Lisa Simpson throwing the captive baby seal back into the sea, saying "your free!" Then a shark leaps from the deep and swallows the seal whole! Doesn't matter, to qoute Sheldon Cooper of TBBT, "What fresh new Hell is this?" so sayeth the seal.
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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #45 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I detested the Mike Daisy furor and believe that when you remove his lies, everything else he talked about was public knowledge and on Apple's radar.
That said, I'm even more disgusted by the commentors here who are saying that its none of our business. Nonsense. Its the ability of Chinese companies to exploit their workers (among all of the other 'externalities' that they are able to entice American companies with) that have decimated American manufacturing. Its in our interest to use every bit of leverage we have to force them in every way possible to improve not only labor conditions and wages, but pollution as well.
This is the best article and news I've seen in years.
Go Apple, even if it did take a bit of a kick in the pants.

And I'm disgusted by the ignorance of posters who pretend to understand the economics of the developing world, and the psychology of the people there. How do you people think the Us and the rest of the developed world got where it is? Don't you understand that working conditions here were as bad, or worse?

You really feel that sitting on your rear at home or at work, you know what people feel there? You don't. I have friends who revel to Asia regularly for business. It's a VERY different situation there. Even in Japan.

Do you feel as though you have to completely support your parents? They do. And they don't have social security, or Medicare, or anything of the sort. When you're too old to work in the fields, you're gone. These people support their entire family with this, in China, very high paying job.

The naivety of some of you people is astounding! You actually think that we even HAVE that much influence? Foreign companies don't have that much. It's even thought that Apple's problems with Proview are partly because of their actions in this.

I'll say it again. It's up to the Chinese government to not just make laws that affect this, but to enforce them. Because they refuse to enforce them, conditions, whether they are really bad, or not, will continue. There is no government in China, people have to understand this. There is the Communist Party. That's all that matters. And the Party is committed to growth. Growth, and their continued rule. Past that, there is nothing.

They allow melamine in baby's formula. They allow heavy metal pollution. They divert major rivers. They lie about the birds flu situation. They insist on burning coal in very old and badly designed piwer plants, and even in the backyard! All of this is far worse than workers working long hours.

So, should some working conditions be fixed? Sure. But are we the ones to do it? Not really. Even if Foxconn, not a Chinese company, by the way, does some things that are needed, that's just about 0.1% of the working population of China. Nothing will have changed.
post #46 of 206
I've heard of banning robbery, violence, fraud. But banning work? That's f'ed up.
post #47 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Don't you mean "blame righteous Progressive, codename for Liberal, Americans.."?

You know, the people who stir up the pot and make a bigger mess that they never clean up and then they move on (dot org) gleefully knowing their karma has been boosted for saving the day once again while ignoring those it effects.

Kind of like Lisa Simpson throwing the captive baby seal back into the sea, saying "your free!" Then a shark leaps from the deep and swallows the seal whole! Doesn't matter, to qoute Sheldon Cooper of TBBT, "What fresh new Hell is this?" so sayeth the seal.
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Oh please! It's you conservatives who have screwed up our country. Stop pretending you know anything at all.
post #48 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Oh please! It's you conservatives who have screwed up our country. Stop pretending you know anything at all.

I think there is enough blame to go around. But I digress...
post #49 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Oh please! It's you conservatives who have screwed up our country. Stop pretending you know anything at all.

If this is an April Fools Day joke it's 2 days early.
post #50 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

Overtime is usually the least expensive time an employer pays for because it is a marginal cost, and other expenses increases little which more than compensates for the additional pay.

Not if all wages are piece-rate, to begin with. Which is, likely, what it is.
post #51 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not if all wages are piece-rate, to begin with. Which is, likely, what it is.

Heard about capital costs, investments, technology obsolescence etc etc ?
post #52 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

If this is an April Fools Day joke it's 2 days early.

No, it's the truth. First we got Reagan's record setting deficits that damaged the economy for years. Then Bush Jr. Comes along and almost destroys the economy with his, and a war that we never should have had. No matter what we do, it will take 20 years to work ourselves out of that one.
post #53 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not if all wages are piece-rate, to begin with. Which is, likely, what it is.

It's hourly wages.
post #54 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

They allow melamine in baby's formula.

Not really. The CEO of the dairy company was executed for the crime of using melamine in dairy products.
post #55 of 206
An additional problem created for the live-in workers: idle minds.
post #56 of 206
Because how we as Americans feel about you is more important than how you feel about yourselves. We like to satiate our own national ego at the expense of the rest of the worlds' plight.

Why should you decide for yourselves how many hours you work and how much money you make? Only we should be able to make that decision.

My employer in Silicon Valley doesn't bat an eye when I work 16 hour days to meet my deadlines. In fact, it's condoned and applauded, a heroic effort made to fortify the team, which lets the office earn yet another Hawaiian Shirt Friday chit. I sit in a office typing on a keyboard, a repetitive, boring activity that isn't much different than what you go through at your factory. But I don't have reporters over my shoulder taking photos of me with my CEO smiling as I now work less hours and earn less pay to support myself and my 43 family members back on the farm in western China.

On the other hand, here we have what's called Wall Street, where the goal is to make as much money as possible while working as least as possible while taking a dump on your customers' backs.
post #57 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj.yuan View Post

Not really. The CEO of the dairy company was executed for the crime of using melamine in dairy products.

More likely, he was executetd for it becoming public, resulting in China loosing face.
post #58 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We have just been told that we can only work a maximum of 36 hours a month of overtime," she said. "I tell you, a lot of us are unhappy with this. We think that 60 hours of overtime a month would be reasonable and that 36 hours would be too little."

We're not even close to hearing the end of this.

Next step will be all the do-gooders complaining about the strenuous 49 hour work week and the debilitating 36 hours a month of overtime. There will be more complaints - just watch.

Meanwhile, here's the petition to ask Change.org to stop using the petition that was based on Daisey's report and then changed after signing.

http://www.change.org/petitions/chan...against-apple#
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #59 of 206
Outsiders, who have never walked in the shoes of the Foxconn workers, are insisting that Foxconn workers be prohibited from working the hours they want to work. The consequence is that some of these workers will no longer be able to send their children to university. The FLA ... keeping the poor poor.
Mac user since August 1983.
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post #60 of 206
While the commitment for the long term is to be salary neutral, it is going to be very bumpy transition of 100,000s of people. People simple have no comprehension of the scale that FOXCONN operates nor the reality on the ground with the workers and their lives. So stand by for a lot of splashy news headlines.
post #61 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

That said, I'm even more disgusted by the commentors here who are saying that its none of our business. Nonsense. Its the ability of Chinese companies to exploit their workers (among all of the other 'externalities' that they are able to entice American companies with) that have decimated American manufacturing. Its in our interest to use every bit of leverage we have to force them in every way possible to improve not only labor conditions and wages, but pollution as well.
This is the best article and news I've seen in years.
Go Apple, even if it did take a bit of a kick in the pants.

So now that they have decimated American manufacturing, let's improve their working conditions to the point where their labor costs equal ours and the manufacturing can return to the US? Nice strategy. Maybe RIM should advertise their phones as made in North America to attract the disenfranchised American factory worker. That might be their only chance of survival. People should simply modify their lifestyle and only buy American/Canadian made products rather than complain about working conditions in China.

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post #62 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

... resulting in China loosing face.

In that case China should try botox and if more extreme measures are required then I'd suggest a face lift.
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post #63 of 206
Here in the US the trend is to reduce labor costs and employee benefits such as American Airlines going bankrupt to break their contract with Flight Attendants. The worker in the US is experiencing a diminishing life style.(UAW etc, etc)

Let's go to China and improve conditions? What about here.

I'm 67 years old and I'm working 50 to 60 hours per week - Don't trust Social Security in the hands of the 1% exploiters who pay 15% taxes (e.g. MR)
post #64 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

In that case China should try botox and if more extreme measures are required then I'd suggest a face lift.

So you think all China needs is a quick fix to improve the appearance?
post #65 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post

No, blame the rapidly growing set of socialist Americans that feel everyone needs to be forced to live by a set of government mandated rules rather than by personal choice.

You forgot to stamp your little foot.

And stay off those socialist, er, public roads.
post #66 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, it's the truth. First we got Reagan's record setting deficits that damaged the economy for years. Then Bush Jr. Comes along and almost destroys the economy with his, and a war that we never should have had. No matter what we do, it will take 20 years to work ourselves out of that one.

Sounds like someone has been listening to too much Rachel Maddow and Bill Maher.

As a global moderator I'm very surprised that you're bringing politics at this level to a thread. But if you insist:

You left out the Clinton deregulation of the banking industry which is the direct cause of the financial/housing collapse but you'll probably blame Congress for that. Not to mention his lapsadaisical approche to Al Qaeda.
Both wars were approved by Congress and voted on by Democrats too- the country was not divided. If anything the collapse of intelligent journalism in this country is to blame.
And the giant sucking sound of Clinton's NAFTA which "damaged the country for years" as you put it.

Both sides could debate for years but let's not on here please.
post #67 of 206
China is going to do whatever they as a people/government/culture decide they want to do. If their law says 49 hours a week and they enforce it fine, nothing will stop the workers from getting a second job if they want or need one. The second job may not pay as well but you can't have your cake and eat it too. I am sure the US media will soon be saying that the Chines worker's gross pay should stay the same even though they will be working less hours. This cycle will never end.

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post #68 of 206
The liberal activists got what they wanted, congratulations!

It'll be even harder for Chinese workers to feed their families now.

And soon, Foxconn will replace many of them with robots, then we'll have starving Chinese people.

Once again, congratulations to the lying douchebag activists.
post #69 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

So you think all China needs is a quick fix to improve the appearance?

If they are loosing face... yes.

If they think they are losing face then they need to resolve a much deeper problem.

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post #70 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

Both wars were approved by Congress and voted on by Democrats too- the country was not divided.

They lied about Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda and weapons of mass destruction and chemical agents. All lies. Had we known the truth we would not have gone along with that cluster fk of a war. As soon as we pull out of those countries they will return to exactly what they were before if not worse. The US should learn to stay out of other countries and keep other countries' citizens from residing here or studying in our universities.

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post #71 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The liberal activists got what they wanted, congratulations!

It'll be even harder for Chinese workers to feed their families now.

And soon, Foxconn will replace many of them with robots, then we'll have starving Chinese people.

Once again, congratulations to the lying douchebag activists.

Yes, the FLA is a socialist activist group. And the only reason Foxconn is negotiating with them is Apple's purchasing power.

It looks like Tim Cook is using Apple's clout to spread socialism.
post #72 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

They lied about Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda and weapons of mass destruction and chemical agents. All lies. Had we known the truth we would not have gone along with that cluster fk of a war. As soon as we pull out of those countries they will return to exactly what they were before if not worse. The US should learn to stay out of other counties and keep other countries' citizens from residing here.

Oh for fuck's sake!!
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post #73 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Yes, the FLA is a socialist activist group. And the only reason Foxconn is negotiating with them is Apple's purchasing power.

It looks like Tim Cook is using Apple's clout to spread socialism.

Not the FLA. It was the liberal activists and liberal media like the NYT which lied and ran bogus stories about Apple which pressured them into the current situation. So yes, it is the fault of liberal activists and liberal serial liars.
post #74 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

They can blame righteous Americans..


It's MORE like OVER-RIGHTEOUS Americans who stupidly conclude that everyone in the world THINKS like THEM! What ignoramuses!
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My job is NOT to be easy on people. My job is to take these great people we have and to push them and make them even BETTER.

--Steve Jobs on being a CEO
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Quote:
My job is NOT to be easy on people. My job is to take these great people we have and to push them and make them even BETTER.

--Steve Jobs on being a CEO
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post #75 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

It is not about making workers abroad happy, it is about making them uncompetitive in a futile attempt to make jobs come back to US.

this, because really why else would we stick our noses where it doesn't belong if it wasn't a completely self-ish act.

Remember kids, there is no such thing as an unselfish act. Everyone at all times acts in their own best interest. If you don't believe or understand that, then you are misunderstanding me or you failed philosophy in college.
post #76 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

Sounds like someone has been listening to too much Rachel Maddow and Bill Maher.

As a global moderator I'm very surprised that you're bringing politics at this level to a thread. But if you insist:

You left out the Clinton deregulation of the banking industry which is the direct cause of the financial/housing collapse but you'll probably blame Congress for that. Not to mention his lapsadaisical approche to Al Qaeda.
Both wars were approved by Congress and voted on by Democrats too- the country was not divided. If anything the collapse of intelligent journalism in this country is to blame.
And the giant sucking sound of Clinton's NAFTA which "damaged the country for years" as you put it.

Both sides could debate for years but let's not on here please.


one thing... one BILLION seconds in 32 years.. 15 TRILLION dollars debt (15 million million). that is not counting the deficit...
so lets make the 1% percenters pay!... only approx 312,500 dollars a year, for 32 years by 1.5 MILLION people. (and that is not counting the interest rate which will most likely double the debt, meaning that will only pay off half of it).

just beware the 1% percenters do not have the means to pay off the debt or deficit... meaning the government coming after you... collectting 2.5 TRILLION dollars a year in taxes, when you need 4 TRILLION just to balance the budget or pay off the debt via cuts to spending. IMO

so this is not a government problem it is YOUR PROBLEM, the money comes from you... if the median salary is about 25366 a year (half make more, and half make less) where are the taxes coming from?... from a tax system similiar to canada... at least 8 percent federal sales tax, and greater business taxes and or federal taxes... does not matter where it is coming from you will pay more for less services.

TL;DR... i do not know the solution, but it is impossible for taxes NOT to increase in the USA... (in Canada they are already quite high..)
post #77 of 206
It's amazing how many of you just accept media narratives at face value. I'm referring to the entire collection of articles on this topic.
post #78 of 206
Your hours are being cut because of a group of tree-huggers that have never even been to China think that you work too much and needed to do something to make themselves feel good. -- The United States
post #79 of 206
The concerns of the workers who depend on regular overtime are valid, but it still wouldn't mean they have any better solutions to the labor issues that might need to be solved. Or that they speak for a majority of the workers. There's not going to be an answer that fits everyone. For many thousands even the best possible labor choices will not be the ones best for them, no different than any large enterprise. Can't be avoided.
post #80 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

The concerns of the workers who depend on regular overtime are valid, but it still wouldn't mean they have any better solutions to the labor issues that might need to be solved. Or that they speak for a majority of the workers. There's not going to be an answer that fits everyone. For many thousands even the best possible labor choices will not be the ones best for them, no different than any large enterprise. Can't be avoided.

The answer is for people to stop trying to dictate working conditions in other countries. If they were consistent about that, they'd criticize the US for not giving a year of paid maternity leave (like Canada) or for not giving as much vacation and the short work week of European countries.
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