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Amazon Appstore earns 3X more than Google Play, Apple's App Store still leads - Page 2

post #41 of 74
3/30/12 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I don't believe them. There's no way Amazon had 89% of Apple's revenue if they were counting the same things. I suspect that there's a difference in what's being counted. For example, Amazon's numbers may include eBook sales while Apple's do not.

I don't believe them either. There is no way they could assemble an accurate estimate based on their limited sampling.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #42 of 74
3/30/12 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I don't believe them either. There is no way they could assemble an accurate estimate based on their limited sampling.

Taking the limits of the survey, this is easily plausible. I do not understand the negative reactions?
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post #43 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Taking the limits of the survey, this is easily plausible. I do not understand the negative reactions?

Yeah...

As I read it:

If you have a popular cross-platform game or eReader app that exists on iOS and Android -- you will make 3-4 x as much money on in-app purchases over Google's Store (except that popular cross-platform game eReader apps on iOS don't allow in-app purchases)

I don't know what that means...

It would be very useful to know the apps being measured and whatever other metrics they can provide.
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post #44 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Impressive numbers Amazon.

Absolutely not the case.

It is comparing apples and oranges. To compare something in equilibrium with something that is ramping up rapidly makes no sense whatsoever.

In the initial stages of the life of a new device (such as the Fire, which is only a few months old), almost all the apps in the device are new and recently purchased. By comparison, I did not buy a single new app from the iTunes Store even though I have 150 apps on my new iPad.
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post #45 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Absolutely not the case.

It is comparing apples and oranges. To compare something in equilibrium with something that is ramping up rapidly makes no sense whatsoever.

In the initial stages of the life of a new device (such as the Fire, which is only a few months old), almost all the apps in the device are new and recently purchased. By comparison, I did not buy a single new app from the iTunes Store even though I have 150 apps on my new iPad.

This make a lot more sense than the in-app conspiracy theorists.
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post #46 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I read the linked article and posted the methodology below:




Edit: I do teach my grandkids to read carefully and critically -- it has served my family very well over the years.

You're faulting me for not reading the multiple links and not the AI reporting as such?
Rich.
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post #47 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

You're faulting me for not reading the multiple links and not the AI reporting as such?
Rich.

Get used to AI, they grab the juicy parts and leave out the facts.
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post #48 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Absolutely not the case.

It is comparing apples and oranges. To compare something in equilibrium with something that is ramping up rapidly makes no sense whatsoever.

In the initial stages of the life of a new device (such as the Fire, which is only a few months old), almost all the apps in the device are new and recently purchased. By comparison, I did not buy a single new app from the iTunes Store even though I have 150 apps on my new iPad.

I can buy this. Not only is the Fire new but the store is new and just became available to all Android devices. This would also generate an inflated purchase arc because of the newness. With that said though, the Amazon store is very nice and I prefer it over the Google one and IMHO, compares favorably to the Apple App Store. Amazon gives away one paid app every 24 hours, makes me open the store each day to look which sometimes generates a purchase from me.
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post #49 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

You're faulting me for not reading the multiple links and not the AI reporting as such?
Rich.

Yes!

Do you pick up the New York Times (or any newspaper), read an OpEd piece, then accept it as fact -- without even evaluating any citations provided... Or at the very least consider supporting and opposing opinions?

If you accept anything that AI (or any web site, blog, etc.) says at face value -- you've got some hard lessons to learn in the real world!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #50 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I can buy this. Not only is the Fire new but the store is new and just became available to all Android devices. This would also generate an inflated purchase arc because of the newness. With that said though, the Amazon store is very nice and I prefer it over the Google one and IMHO, compares favorably to the Apple App Store.

I have not used the Amazon App Store, but I suspect it is well done -- based upon using the regular Amazon Store...

Can you integrate app purchases, with digital music purchases, and physical hard-good purchases?

If so, I think Amazon would have a significant advantage over any store that sells only digital (download) media and apps.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #51 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I thought of that, and if it were averaged out per device, but I have no way knowing if the specifics so while it seems highly suspect I'll still give a golf clap to the impressive numbers shown here.

SolipsismX, how can you possibly say that a set of reported numbers are suspect but impressive at the same time? What am I missing ? Unless you're saying .... It's probably not true, but what a lie, huh ?
I looked at the same AI article that you did, and I know you're familiar with the past history of Apple/Flurry so given that history and given the old saw about how "figures lie and liars figure" (Flurry, not you ) I'm wondering how you "square that circle."

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post #52 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Can you integrate app purchases, with digital music purchases, and physical hard-good purchases?


Yes, my Amazon account goes across all platforms and purchases. This is a good thing BUT can be dangerous when you have a 15 year old with a Fire. Her Fire is attached to my account and if she wanted could easily purchase whatever she wanted. Thankfully she understands this and I have not had problems but you read about people getting $2000 bills because of this stuff.
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post #53 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

SolipsismX, how can you possibly say that a set of reported numbers are suspect but impressive at the same time? What am I missing ? Unless you're saying .... It's probably not true, but what a lie, huh ?
I looked at the same AI article that you did, and I know you're familiar with the past history of Apple/Flurry so given that history and given the old saw about how "figures lie and liars figure" (Flurry, not you ) I'm wondering how you "square that circle."

I took his comments as the method was suspect but within that method the numbers are impressive.
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post #54 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:32pm
[QUOTE=AppleInsider;2084859]A new analysis shows that Amazon's Appstore for Android is a far more profitable avenue for developers than Google Play, though Apple's iOS App Store remains the market leader. [END=QUOTE]

Someone failed basic statistics here. No where in the story does the author say that the analysis is of a limited set of applications, but the headline and first paragraph give the impression that for every $1.00 of revenue generated by Apple Amazon earns $0.89 and Google earn $0.23. That is only true of the apps that make up the universe of this comparison.

Total revenues are a different story and the author should have said so.
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post #55 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Someone failed basic statistics here. No where in the story does the author say that the analysis is of a limited set of applications, but the headline and first paragraph give the impression that for every $1.00 of revenue generated by Apple Amazon earns $0.89 and Google earn $0.23. That is only true of the apps that make up the universe of this comparison.

Total revenues are a different story and the author should have said so.


"The statistics come from 11 million daily active users of top-ranked applications available on iOS, Amazon and Android"

Limited set of applications. straight from the article.
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post #56 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:45pm
[QUOTE=atsysusa;2085020]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new analysis shows that Amazon's Appstore for Android is a far more profitable avenue for developers than Google Play, though Apple's iOS App Store remains the market leader. [END=QUOTE]

Someone failed basic statistics here. No where in the story does the author say that the analysis is of a limited set of applications, but the headline and first paragraph give the impression that for every $1.00 of revenue generated by Apple Amazon earns $0.89 and Google earn $0.23. That is only true of the apps that make up the universe of this comparison.

Total revenues are a different story and the author should have said so.

Oye! Oye!

The way this article was headlined and written it is nothing but link bait!

The AI author did not bother to read/understand the underlying the study -- rather he took some specific, qualified numbers and sensationalized them into a grossly misleading headline and article...

His only demonstrated journalistic integrity was linking to the underlying article -- so anyone interested could discern the facts/validity of the assertions for himself.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #57 of 74
3/30/12 at 12:54pm
[QUOTE=Dick Applebaum;2085034]
Quote:
Originally Posted by atsysusa View Post


Oye! Oye!

The way this article was headlined and written it is nothing but link bait!

The AI author did not bother to read/understand the underlying the study -- rather he took some specific, qualified numbers and sensationalized them into a grossly misleading headline and article...

His only demonstrated journalistic integrity was linking to the underlying article -- so anyone interested could discern the facts/validity of the assertions for himself.

The AI way, at least it was linked. Been some before with no linky.
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post #58 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

"The statistics come from 11 million daily active users of top-ranked applications available on iOS, Amazon and Android"

Limited set of applications. straight from the article.

Yes, but... The AI article didn't say this was for "in-app-purchases".

I certainly suspect if an app has 11 million daily active users -- that it is a game or eReader app.

I control all the purchases on our iDevices -- and we very seldom make in-app purchases... but we have 870 apps, 148 iBooks, 3 Kindle Books and 4 Nook Books. Almost all the eBooks are in-app purchases. I would bet we have made less than 75 in-app purchases for games and less than 15 for serious (less-popular) apps.

That's over a span of approximately 1 year -- In app purchases were initiated on Apr 15, 2011.


So, for our household of 2 adults and 3 teenagers -- these stats have no meaning.

I estimate we spent approximately:
-- $150 on new apps and books in the 45 days of the study period.
-- $10 on in-app game purchases in the 45 days of the study period (the grandkids have to pay me to make these purchases).


To make this study's stats have any meaning -- it would help to know the app categories... tho I surmise it is games and eBooks.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #59 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:21pm
If I'm reading this right, it's comparing numbers based on an active user basis. For comparative purposes, Apple is set at the absolute value of 100%. Thus:

- Each Amazon user generates $0.89 for each dollar a user spends on the App Store.

- Each Android user generates $0.23 for each dollar a user spends on the App Store.

It makes no mention of the total number of users on each platform. If Applw has 1,000 users and Amazon has 300, Amazon isn't making 89% of what Applw generates.

IMO, this is not purposes for a comparison to Apple, which is why Apple is set at the absolute value. The purpose is to compare Amazon users to Android users, and it's showing that Amazon users spend more than Android users.

Please note I do not endorse the method of collecting the data, as it is likely a flawed approach.
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post #60 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:21pm
Actually, I think the key here is per active user. Although other Android devices can access the amazon app store as well, it is likely many of the the owners are kindle fire owners where for apple app store, the percentage is higher for iPhone. And I think studies have shown that tablets owners are likely to purchase more apps.

Also, since the fire was released in Dec, the amount of apps purchased from jan-feb should be high.
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post #61 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:29pm
From the original blog post:
Quote:
We examine a basket of top-ranked apps that have similar presence across iOS, Amazon and Android.

Alas, this is not a particularly useful approach to generate informative comparisons. By pre-selecting apps with "similar presence", the authors of the study have biased it towards similar results across platforms. Their method throws out the information about how many such top-ranked apps are sold in each app store, and if there are any large differences between the lower-ranked apps.

The only conclusion that could be made is that apps with similar presence in all stores drive in similar revenue from in-app purchases. Summing these revenues or directly comparing them is not very meaningful.
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post #62 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I took his comments as the method was suspect but within that method the numbers are impressive.

Maybe, but for someone who used to post well thought out and reasonable points (SolipsismX) more often than not, I'm disappointed to see him appearing to go for quantity, not necessarily quality.

This thread is a glaring example, if you follow the whole thread. AI posts the article at 12.19 ... at 12.24 Sol gives a 3 word post. (impressive numbers amazon) .... 3 different people give their reasons why they don't believe the numbers ... 12.29, 12.37, 12.38 .... then at 12.39 Sol does an "amazing fence sitting job" saying, in essence saying the numbers are probably wrong but still impressive. To me thats fence sitting at it's best .... just makes me wonder if he's getting paid to post or what ? Colour me curious.

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post #63 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:35pm
About the only cogent argument I can develop from the given data is that Google customers prefer a walled garden and even that is questionable.
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post #64 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Maybe, but for someone who used to post well thought out and reasonable points (SolipsismX) more often than not, I'm disappointed to see him appearing to go for quantity, not necessarily quality.

This thread is a glaring example, if you follow the whole thread. AI posts the article at 12.19 ... at 12.24 Sol gives a 3 word post. (impressive numbers amazon) .... 3 different people give their reasons why they don't believe the numbers ... 12.29, 12.37, 12.38 .... then at 12.39 Sol does an "amazing fence sitting job" saying, in essence saying the numbers are probably wrong but still impressive. To me thats fence sitting at it's best .... just makes me wonder if he's getting paid to post or what ? Colour me curious.

My comment was representative of the numbers themselves and nothing more. In and of themselves they are impressive, are they not? Why can't I think that and still be suspect of how they were generated? If there was a clear angle that allowed me to argue as to why these numbers are false I would have done so but I like to back up my hypotheses and detail how I came to my conclusions.

Here's another example: Android's activation numbers are impressive but I questioned the methods by which they were generated. Rubin answered most of my questions a few months back but still left some ambiguous areas with the Android activation numbers.

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post #65 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

If I'm reading this right, it's comparing numbers based on an active user basis. For comparative purposes, Apple is set at the absolute value of 100%. Thus:

- Each Amazon user generates $0.89 for each dollar a user spends on the App Store.

- Each Android user generates $0.23 for each dollar a user spends on the App Store.

It makes no mention of the total number of users on each platform. If Applw has 1,000 users and Amazon has 300, Amazon isn't making 89% of what Applw generates.

IMO, this is not purposes for a comparison to Apple, which is why Apple is set at the absolute value. The purpose is to compare Amazon users to Android users, and it's showing that Amazon users spend more than Android users.

Please note I do not endorse the method of collecting the data, as it is likely a flawed approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vthree View Post

Actually, I think the key here is per active user. Although other Android devices can access the amazon app store as well, it is likely many of the the owners are kindle fire owners where for apple app store, the percentage is higher for iPhone. And I think studies have shown that tablets owners are likely to purchase more apps.

Also, since the fire was released in Dec, the amount of apps purchased from jan-feb should be high.

Interesting... I missed the "active user" perspective...

What is obvious is that Flurry and AI both have agendas -- as we all do!


I have played/experimented with Flurry in the past... but have not used it in production -- my apps are not available through the app store.


Here's a link to Flurry's site explaining what they do:

Advertisers & Agencies - Your Audience Is Using Mobile Apps


Here's an email I received, yesterday as a developer:

Quote:
Flurry

Dear valued customer,

We're happy to let you know we are adding exciting upgrades to Flurry Analytics next Tuesday, April 3, which we've been working on since last year. These features will work for any SDK on any platform. Also on the same day, we will release an SDK for iOS that does not use UDIDs and supports all existing and new analytics features.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us at support@flurry.com.

Thank you,

The Flurry Team


Nothing negative implied -- just noting that Flurry has an agenda...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #66 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

Doesn't make sense at all. There must be at least 10x the number of iOS devices out there compared to the Kindle Fire, and, not trying to fan the flames but the iOS app store is worlds better than the Amazon app store, and Amazon has a fraction of the selection. (I have both, Amazon Apps are janky at best) Unless I'm missing how this data was collected, there's no way in hell Amazon is pulling 89% of whatever Apple is.

The 10x devices doesn't matter. They are comparing revenue per active user. A big difference from overall revenue.

Amazon's Appstore for Android is a far more profitable avenue for developers on an active-user basis than Google Play

I see Post #59 & #60 also posted this.
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post #67 of 74
3/30/12 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

From the original blog post:


Alas, this is not a particularly useful approach to generate informative comparisons. By pre-selecting apps with "similar presence", the authors of the study have biased it towards similar results across platforms. Their method throws out the information about how many such top-ranked apps are sold in each app store, and if there are any large differences between the lower-ranked apps.

The only conclusion that could be made is that apps with similar presence in all stores drive in similar revenue from in-app purchases. Summing these revenues or directly comparing them is not very meaningful.

I agree... it isn't meaningful to us!


I suspect that the purpose of the Flurry Blog is twofold:

1) convince developers to include Flurry analytics in their apps so they (the developer) and Flurry can measure their penetration -- a bigger statistical pie.

2) Sell the aggregate analytic results to advertisers


The "sensationalism" that Flurry used in its blog:

"For Generating App Revenue, Amazon Shows Google How to Play"

is just a way to promote their further their services... it is what it is!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #68 of 74
3/30/12 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcompuser View Post

The 10x devices doesn't matter. They are comparing revenue per active user. A big difference from overall revenue.

Amazon's Appstore for Android is a far more profitable avenue for developers on an active-user basis than Google Play

I see Post #59 & #60 also posted this.

I would just add this:

Mr. advertiser, by using Flurry analytics, you can target your product advertising to the venues where it will be most effective -- and we, Flurry, have our finger on the pulse of an ever-changing dynamic market. (my statement)

Advertisers & Agencies - Your Audience Is Using Mobile Apps

Quote:
Your Audience Is Using Mobile Apps
The number of consumers using mobile apps dwarfs the number that watches top prime-time TV shows. And while a top show might air up to 40 episodes per year, Flurry reaches its mobile audience 365 days per year. Even better, this mobile app audience is more affluent, educated and engaged than both online and TV audiences. Flurry empowers brands, agencies and developers to reach this audience for less.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #69 of 74
3/30/12 at 2:28pm
"In other words, for every dollar in revenue generated from Apple's iOS App Store, the Amazon Appstore for Android brings in 89 cents per active user, while Google Play earns 23 cents for software available at all three storefronts. "

Was this really necessary?

Was "Amazon's Appstore made 89 percent of the revenue that the same software did on Apple's App Store on an active-user basis, while Google Play made just 23 percent." so unclear, and did repeating the exact same thing over again clarify it?
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post #70 of 74
3/30/12 at 2:31pm
Folks, Read it again they are not saying Amazon is generating 89% of Apple revenue App store. They normalize the date as a function of users.

So what they are saying if Apple is the standard to meet and they bring in $x of total sales and you divide that by the total y register users that number is the 100% mark to hit.

So on a total revenue/user bases Amazon bring is 89% of the Apple number and Google only bring in 23%. All that means is Apple make more per user than Amazon and Google. In Google case most of their users are not buying apps, most chose to download free apps verse pay for them.

Also, since Google user base for android is probably larger than Amazon, Google revenue could not larger than Amazon, but Amazon is making more per user than Google so it cost Google more to support their customers
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post #71 of 74
3/30/12 at 3:40pm
This is a horribly misleading study. In fact Google probably made way more money - See the logic yourself http://www.pixel-freak.com/Flurry_Mi...lic_With_Study
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post #72 of 74
3/30/12 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

Doesn't seem right. I would think there are a lot fewer Android devices that access the Amazon store than iOS devices that access the Apple App Store, mostly Amazon's own devices like the Fire. So with much fewer devices, they can generate 89% of the revenue Apple does? Sounds like every Fire user must be pouring money out to Amazon.

If you look a little closer at the article they say that for the same software on the amazon store there making 89% of the revenue that apple is.

In other words on a software unit per unit basis not hardware basis there making 89% per piece of software that apple does.

Obviously apple makes a lot more than amazon with its app store because of the sheer number of iOS devices versus kindles. Apple at last count has 355 million iOS devices out there now.

Quote:
In this normalized comparison, Amazon's Appstore made 89 percent of the revenue that the same software did on Apple's App Store on an active-user basis

To put this another way IF amazon had 355 million devices (no way in hell they do) like apples 355 million iOS devices amazon would be making 89% of what apple does on each piece of the same software for instance angry birds. If apple made 1 dollar for every angry birds sold amazon would be making .89 cents for every angry birds sold.
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post #73 of 74
3/30/12 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I don't know of any Apple app with an in-app-purchase.

Cards?
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post #74 of 74
3/31/12 at 1:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

I don't believe ANY of them. No one doubts Apple is very far ahead. Beyond that everything else is based on guesses, assumptions, estimations or unverifiable and easily skewed information looking for clicks and eyeballs.

I am with you on these numbers.

I could make no idea on how they got those assumed figures and as far as I am concerned they were pulled out from where the sun doesn't shine.

Btw those droid boys preferred their toys free.
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