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Judge affirms vital Apple touchscreen patent in case against Motorola - Page 4

post #121 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

@Relic

I am with Sol here...

Several times (even today) I have considered putting you on my ignore list (along with gator/zather)

Then you've probably missed out on several things you didn't know, along with any opportunity to point out anything I said that might not be accurate.

Thanks. It saves time not having to dispute posts.
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post #122 of 167
Patents and their implied monopoly stimulate research. Including software research and related patents. Although Mueller is open about his dislike for software patents. His comment about a 20 year monopoly being against the public good for something that would be invented anyways is part of his view, but inconsistent with general practice of patent law. He has his view, but it is irrelevant on this point. I find his reporting and interpretation for the lay person to be first class.
post #123 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Internet forums have done something truly remarkable. It has brought together people of a common interest without any prerequisites for age, gender, country, culture, mental or physical health, etc. without any of the typical discrimination. You are present by choice and are judged based solely on your words.

I have no idea if Relic is truly a female in hospital in Switzerland. I also have no reason to doubt any one of those things just as I have no reason to doubt the part of your (Applebaum) life and working with Apple early on.

But does any of these things matter when addressing someone in and internet forum? Should we give up objectivity because we think we know something personal a forum member? I sure hope not. If I make a blatantly false statement I hope I'm called out on it because I want to learn from my mistake. I'm not a member because I want my back patted, I'm a member because I want to be educated and AI forum members have never let me down in that regard.


PS: I'm nonplussed by your hugging comment.

Yeah...

I agree with what you are saying above -- and you and I both will call each other (or another regular) out if we think it is warranted.

I tend to believe most people are pretty much how they "come across" in conversation/communication -- when we concentrate on what they say and how they reason -- as opposed to how they look or how they are dressed. As you say, a web forum is a great equalizer -- it removes any surface distractions and tends to focus on the mind, upbringing, prejudices and agendas...

Sure, when discussing/describing ourselves -- we all Ac-cent-u-ate the positive, E-lim-i-nate the negative...

But, you learn more by reading between the lines... looking for an agenda...

I, pretty much, think @Relic is what she claims... though, I have tried to "test" her claims (not her whinges) with the bait not taken... It'd be rude to pursue it if, in fact, she is as she says she is...


The "official hugger" was a joke based on you retaining @TBell as your attorney -- If @Relic were going to suggest that I, too, needed a hug... you'd be the recipient on my behalf
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post #124 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

@Relic

I am with Sol here...

Several times (even today) I have considered putting you on my ignore list (along with gator/zather) -- because most of your posts are a rambling pro-everything-but-Apple whinge.

IMO, this kind of stuff doesn't contribute to the discussion here!

I do realize that you are living in confined circumstances and receiving medications including morphine -- that could be partially responsible...

I think that when you make well-considered posts -- most regulars, here, will respond in kind!


P.S. I have retained SolipsismX as my official hugger...

Your right I am out of my mind most of the time. This past month especially, I am in a lot of pain and I am very scared that I will probably never leave this place. However I am still a geek and I love all tech. I only try to defend those company's who make a contribution to the bettering of technology in a whole. We need competition, we need more company's who make better products then Apple. Not because I hate Apple or want them to fail but to keep them on their toes to push them so they can continue coming out with awesome products. I don't mean to come off as a hater so for that I'm sorry. If anyone lives in Switzerland or will be passing threw anytime soon I would be more then honoured if you could come visit me. I kind of need the support right now and would love to meet new people.
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post #125 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

This

Ah, I see the Swiss Health system is not so full of holes as some equivalents in the west!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am with Sol here...

Several times (even today) I have considered putting you on my ignore list (along with gator/zather) -- because most of your posts are a rambling pro-everything-but-Apple whinge.

Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Then you've probably missed out on several things you didn't know, along with any opportunity to point out anything I said that might not be accurate.

I'm sorry, but when the overall majority of the content that you post is negative, regardless of how polite or well reasoned it is, you don't come off being educational at all but more wanting of attention.

That is the impression that you give me, at least.
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post #126 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

.... without any prerequisites for age, gender, country, culture, mental or physical health, etc. .....

Agree wih everything except the bolded demographic.

Women avoid these forums -- especially tech forums that seem to be infested, um, shall we say, by types that come as through as socially awkward misogynists that never grew out of their basements -- like the plague.

Also, look at how few women write for tech, despite the fact that writing/journalism is a very woman-friendly profession (and employs a higher proportion of women than most).
post #127 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Agree wih everything except the bolded demographic.

Women avoid these forums -- especially tech forums that seem to be infested, um, shall we say, by types that come as through as socially awkward misogynists that never grew out of their basements -- like the plague.

Also, look at how few women write for tech, despite the fact that writing/journalism is a very woman-friendly profession (and employs a higher proportion of women than most).

Note: I was stating the demographics, but the prerequisite for being a member.

There doesn't seem to be many women but it's not a prerequisite for being a member. There are still plenty of clubs, at least in the US, that are male or female only. Then there are the bars and clubs that require men to be 21+ and women to be only 18+, or worse not allow men in unless they come with a woman.

As an example (because I do know a little about his personal life) Dick and I would likely never have this much interaction in the "real world" as he is a grandfather about twice my age and I'm an international man of mystery (self proclaimed) and yet we have conversations many times a week and have had them for years. I've learned a lot from him, you, and countless others on this forum, and I hope you've all learned from me.

Despite my bellyaching from time to time this place is top notch for a tech forum. Just try having a conversation on MacRumors or Engadget.


PS: Melissa Jenna from iFixit is cute.

PPS: I also like Marina Orlova but that might be the etymologist part of me.

PPPS: http://www.manolith.com/2009/10/12/1...st-geek-girls/

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post #128 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Despite my bellyaching from time to time this place is top notch for a tech forum. Just try having a conversation on MacRumors or Engadget.

There's no such thing as having a conversation at either of those. You come in packing your best insults and hope for the best.
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post #129 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Agree wih everything except the bolded demographic.

Women avoid these forums -- especially tech forums that seem to be infested, um, shall we say, by types that come as through as socially awkward misogynists that never grew out of their basements -- like the plague.

Also, look at how few women write for tech, despite the fact that writing/journalism is a very woman-friendly profession (and employs a higher proportion of women than most).

Well... It's not what he said... but the way he said it!
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post #130 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Note: I was stating the demographics, but the prerequisite for being a member.

There doesn't seem to be many women but it's not a prerequisite for being a member. There are still plenty of clubs, at least in the US, that are male or female only. Then there are the bars and clubs that require men to be 21+ and women to be only 18+, or worse not allow men in unless they come with a woman.

As an example (because I do know a little about his personal life) Dick and I would likely never have this much interaction in the "real world" as he is a grandfather about twice my age and I'm an international man of mystery (self proclaimed)

I Nailed it!
Quote:
and yet we have conversations many times a week and have had them for years. I've learned a lot from him, you, and countless others on this forum, and I hope you've all learned from me.

Despite my bellyaching from time to time this place is top notch for a tech forum. Just try having a conversation on MacRumors or Engadget.

Agree!

Quote:

PS: Melissa Jenna from iFixit is cute.

PPS: I also like Marina Orlova but that might be the etymologist part of me.

PPPS: http://www.manolith.com/2009/10/12/1...st-geek-girls/

Then you'd like this...

I first saw Marina in the above video. The other girl is a web friend (since 2007) named Sheena Melwani...

Maybe, I'm not so old after all... I liberally apply a daily internal preservative

Quote:
Thanks to Marina (HotforWords) for lending some real credibility from a linguistics expert...oh and improving the aesthetic qualities as well. Please visit her page and subscribe for more brain expanding enjoyment!
http://www.youtube.com/hotforwords

The female vocalist is Sheena Melwani, and I was thrilled she agreed to sing on my track! She's the girl with the dark hair, and if you haven't visited and subscribed to her page, please do so! You won't regret it!
http://www.youtube.com/sheenamelwani

Edit: While I do appreciate a good looking woman... it is much more than just looks... It's in their eyes, how they carry/respect themselves... and above all their sense of humor!
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post #131 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Edit: While I do appreciate a good looking woman... it is much more than just looks... It's in their eyes, how they carry/respect themselves... and above all their sense of humor!

I love a sense of humour but I hate when they laugh at my penis.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #132 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I love a sense of humour but I hate when they laugh at my penis.

That's what magic markers are for Señor Wences
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post #133 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

@Relic

I am with Sol here...

Several times (even today) I have considered putting you on my ignore list (along with gator/zather) -- because most of your posts are a rambling pro-everything-but-Apple whinge.

So these two are AI's *new* perenially out-of-touch anti-Apple trolls?

I thought with Tekstud and extremsk8r we've seen everything.

Then again, MacRumors' anti-Apple troll population is just about bursting, so AI might be getting some of their overflow.
post #134 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

Patents and their implied monopoly stimulate research. Including software research and related patents. Although Mueller is open about his dislike for software patents. His comment about a 20 year monopoly being against the public good for something that would be invented anyways is part of his view, but inconsistent with general practice of patent law. He has his view, but it is irrelevant on this point. I find his reporting and interpretation for the lay person to be first class.

Agreed on all points.
post #135 of 167
My name at the office is the Pitbull. You are in good hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I have retained TBell as legal counsel. All replies to me should now be addressed to TBell.
post #136 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

My name at the office is the Pitbull. You are in good hands.

It's not because you just look like him?

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post #137 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

So these two are AI's *new* perenially out-of-touch anti-Apple trolls?

I thought with Tekstud and extremsk8r we've seen everything.

Then again, MacRumors' anti-Apple troll population is just about bursting, so AI might be getting some of their overflow.

Yeah, MR is kinda' sad... they often have the first posts of interesting articles... but it is just too difficult to wade through the dross (at 25 per page) to carry on an entertaining and intelligent conversation.

I just don't understand the mindset... I doubt that even the most avid Apple fans, here, would go to an Android or Windows forum and post this mindless crap.

We all get upset with Apple, and occasionally vent (at least I do)... but I believe in advocating things I like, discussing things I dislike -- inserting a mock or ridicule now and then... Hey, you learn more by being wrong (and being corrected) than by being right (or unchallanged).

Like, Sol, I learn a lot here and tend to keep abreast of what is happening in the industry in general.

Thanks AI and most of the posters here!
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post #138 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's not because you just look like him?

Now, Those are nice... BTW, Who's the guy singing?
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post #139 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Hey, you learn more by being wrong (and being corrected) than by being right (or unchallanged).

Like, Sol, I learn a lot here and tend to keep abreast of what is happening in the industry in general.

Thanks AI and most of the posters here!

+1
Yet another thing we're in agreement on.
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post #140 of 167
This is intended as a general round of applause from one of the lurkers to all who sincerely post here. I may not yet have enough accumulated knowledge to enter into a detailed discussion about a great many of the points made here at AI, but I do learn from both the intelligent and not so intelligent postings of others. Thank you all for your participation. It's not often vocalized, but it is appreciated.
post #141 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottschor View Post

This is intended as a general round of applause from one of the lurkers to all who sincerely post here. I may not yet have enough accumulated knowledge to enter into a detailed discussion about a great many of the points made here at AI, but I do learn from both the intelligent and not so intelligent postings of others. Thank you all for your participation. It's not often vocalized, but it is appreciated.

C'mon in... All sincere discussion is welcome -- a new point of view or perspective is usually treated with the same respect with which it is offered...
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post #142 of 167
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post #143 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottschor View Post

This is intended as a general round of applause from one of the lurkers to all who sincerely post here. I may not yet have enough accumulated knowledge to enter into a detailed discussion about a great many of the points made here at AI, but I do learn from both the intelligent and not so intelligent postings of others. Thank you all for your participation. It's not often vocalized, but it is appreciated.

Hold it! Stop the presses!

Nobody told me that we have to accumulate knowledge before entering discussions and I've seen very little evidence in any discussion of such a requirement.

Is this new?!

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post #144 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

Your perception is completely wrong. FRAND is a legal designation applied to patents that are essential to implementing standards. Apple isn't suing using a patent LEGALLY DESIGNATED as FRAND.

Is FRAND truly a legal designation? It is recognized in the courts, but ... a legal designation? I am reasonably sure (say 90%) that it is not so. Interested in confirmation.
post #145 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota_Steve View Post

Patents and their implied monopoly stimulate research. Including software research and related patents. Although Mueller is open about his dislike for software patents. His comment about a 20 year monopoly being against the public good for something that would be invented anyways is part of his view, but inconsistent with general practice of patent law. He has his view, but it is irrelevant on this point. I find his reporting and interpretation for the lay person to be first class.

Mueller does seem to do a good job of separating facts from his opinion...

BTW, I was known as "St. Louis Park Richie" in my youth...
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post #146 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Is FRAND truly a legal designation? It is recognized in the courts, but ... a legal designation? I am reasonably sure (say 90%) that it is not so. Interested in confirmation.

Yes and no.

FRAND does not, by itself, have a legal status with the courts. A third party can not simply go in to court and charge someone with a FRAND violation.

OTOH, when a company submits a technology as FRAND, they sign a license agreement with the standards body which lays out the terms under which they agree to license the technology. That agreement uses the term 'FRAND' - and that agreement is enforceable by the courts if they are asked to do so. Any one with standing to sue can bring action. That could be the licensee, the licensor, and in some cases, even a prospective licensee.
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post #147 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Agree wih everything except the bolded demographic.

Women avoid these forums -- especially tech forums that seem to be infested, um, shall we say, by types that come as through as socially awkward misogynists that never grew out of their basements -- like the plague.

Also, look at how few women write for tech, despite the fact that writing/journalism is a very woman-friendly profession (and employs a higher proportion of women than most).

That's because women have both brains and a lack of need to best those around them, God bless'em.

What would we do without them?

Anybody up for a quick joust?
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post #148 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Is FRAND truly a legal designation? It is recognized in the courts, but ... a legal designation? I am reasonably sure (say 90%) that it is not so. Interested in confirmation.

I don't think FRAND is a legal definition -- as opposed to a body of legal precedents.

As I understand it, a company spends resources ($ and time) developing a technology -- like 3G. Then, to:

1) recover the cost of their investment

2) maintain their competive lead in the technology in question

They offer the tech as a FRAND standard.

...they can't maximize the bucks -- but they can pay the freight and maintain a tech lead.


Apple offered Darwin and WebKit as free (FRAND-like) tech to further the use of the tech -- because it was to Apple's advantage to do so.

But Apple, and others, can also develop tech that they believe provides them a significant advantage by not making it available to others... Their choice.

So, the mixture of FRAND and non-FRAND claims is like trying to play basketball with a lacrosse net and a catchers mitt.

You can't have it both ways!
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post #149 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mueller does seem to do a good job of separating facts from his opinion...

BTW, I was known as "St. Louis Park Richie" in my youth...


St. Louis Park is a fine place.
post #150 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Hold it! Stop the presses!

Nobody told me that we have to accumulate knowledge before entering discussions and I've seen very little evidence in any discussion of such a requirement.

Is this new?!


You mean you didn't have to do the brain/limbo stick thing before being provided with a username like the rest of us?

Lucky bastard.

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post #151 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

At what point does Google realize that trying to profit from Android is like pushing a rope up a hill?

Not everything is about profit. Where is the profit in the driverless car, for example? As long as Google makes enough from other sources, I am happy with them providing Android, search, docs, maps, youtube, translate, sites, gmail, for free. Remember, focus on making great products first...
post #152 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Not everything is about profit. Where is the profit in the driverless car, for example? As long as Google makes enough from other sources, I am happy with them providing Android, search, docs, maps, youtube, translate, sites, gmail, for free. Remember, focus on making great products first...

For an article that might give you a different view of Google and Android:
http://gigaom.com/mobile/why-google-...roids-revenue/

It's easy to forget that Android as a marketed and viable mobile OS is well short of 3 years old. The original Motorola Droid marked the beginning for practical purposes, October 2009.
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post #153 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

For an article that might give you a different view of Google and Android:
http://gigaom.com/mobile/why-google-...roids-revenue/

It's easy to forget that Android as a marketed and viable mobile OS is well short of 3 years old. The original Motorola Droid marked the beginning for practical purposes, October 2009.

I love the way the story changes.

When it's about Android not coping iOS, then the fandroids claim that Android has been around much longer than iOS.

When it's about Android's inability to provide the kind of revenues that iOS does, then they claim that Android has only been around for a couple of years.
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post #154 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

For an article that might give you a different view of Google and Android:
http://gigaom.com/mobile/why-google-...roids-revenue/

It's easy to forget that Android as a marketed and viable mobile OS is well short of 3 years old. The original Motorola Droid marked the beginning for practical purposes, October 2009.

Thanks for the link, GigaOM is always a good read. I would counter those who say that Android doesn't bring profits for Google with a different (also off-topic) question that likely rarely crosses their minds: how much of iPhone's initial success was due to Google's Maps, Search, and YouTube?
post #155 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I love the way the story changes.

When it's about Android not coping iOS, then the fandroids claim that Android has been around much longer than iOS.

When it's about Android's inability to provide the kind of revenues that iOS does, then they claim that Android has only been around for a couple of years.

Longer in the making, shorter on the market. Where's the problem with that?
post #156 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I love the way the story changes.

When it's about Android not coping iOS, then the fandroids claim that Android has been around much longer than iOS.

When it's about Android's inability to provide the kind of revenues that iOS does, then they claim that Android has only been around for a couple of years.

I was assuming the mention that Android has only been seriously marketed for a little over two years might be helpful in understanding one possible reason Android revenues might appear to be lagging compared to Apple's iOS, which hit the market running more than two years earlier.
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post #157 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I was assuming the mention that Android has only been seriously marketed for a little over two years might be helpful in understanding one possible reason Android revenues might appear to be lagging compared to Apple's iOS, which hit the market running more than two years earlier.

The G1 was released in October, 2008. The iPhone was released in June, 2007.
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post #158 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

The G1 was released in October, 2008. The iPhone was released in June, 2007.

The G1 was certainly the very first Android phone to come to market. In fact the only one for some time. It was more putting a toe in the water than anything else IMO. The Motorola Droid is very often mentioned as the first marketable Android smartphone, which also allowed the Android market to grow, which then encouraged other players like Samsung to jump in with both feet. Without the original Droid I don't know that Android would even be a realistic alternative to iOS today, and it would most certainly be much further behind.
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #159 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

The G1 was certainly the very first Android phone to come to market. In fact the only one for some time. It was more putting a toe in the water than anything else IMO. The Motorola Droid is very often mentioned as the first marketable Android smartphone, which also allowed the Android market to grow, which then encouraged other players like Samsung to jump in with both feet. Without the original Droid I don't know that Android would even be a realistic alternative to iOS today, and it would most certainly be much further behind.

The point is that you keep changing dates to suit whatever point you're trying to make at the time.

The first iPhone didn't sell anywhere near as well as later iPhones, either. So can we say that Apple was putting a toe in the water, too?

The facts are simple. First Android phone on the market was 3 1/2 years ago. And, as the fandroids are so eager to point out, Google was working on, talking about, and promoting Android long before that.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #160 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

The point is that you keep changing dates to suit whatever point you're trying to make at the time.

The first iPhone didn't sell anywhere near as well as later iPhones, either. So can we say that Apple was putting a toe in the water, too?

The facts are simple. First Android phone on the market was 3 1/2 years ago. And, as the fandroids are so eager to point out, Google was working on, talking about, and promoting Android long before that.

When did I change any dates?

As for anyone else's mention, Android started development in 2004 according to news reports but didn't have a commercially successful smartphone (original Droid) until the fall of 2009.

I've seen some mention that iPhone development may also have begun in the 2004/2005 timeframe, with their first commercially successful smartphone coming to market in 2007, about 2.5 years earlier than Android. Is that easier for you to understand? One set of dates involve starting development while the other involves viable product. Two separate and distinct things aren't they? But you already knew that.
melior diabolus quem scies
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