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Nokia kicks off Windows Phone 7 campaign with Antennagate teaser spot - Page 2

post #41 of 135
4/2/12 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Lame , lame lame.
I still have the first iPhone 4 and I have never, ever had a dropped call from the so called death grip. And why now. Why bring up this old issue nearly two damn years later?
Pathetic. Pathetic nokia.

It's still 2010 in Redmond. I think they made these ads when WinMo7 was new and didn't sell, so they are calling the 2010 WinMo7 "beta." What they will ship this year will still be WinMo7 but after two years, it's not beta any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) There are two more of these teaser ads on Nokia's website. I'd say that two are attacking the iPhone, not just the deathgrip ad.

True, they are making fun of the iPhone, however people easily make the wrong connections and think it's about the advertised product - the net result is such ads backfire terribly.

Quote:
2) I'm not sure if they are effective as I hear they are confusing if you don't already know the inside story before watching them, but they are funny.

Exactly so, very confusing and the advertised product becomes associated with the deficiencies mentioned in the ads. However, they are really very funny ads!

Quote:
1) Campaigns aren't about the truth, it's about using fear and ignorance to sway you. Emotion is a powerful thing and has nothing to with rational thought.

Spot on... this is especially true when it's a political campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

Resurrecting a 2-year old iPhone controversy that few people remember as part of the ad campaign for your new phone? Did Nokia actually PAY someone to come up with this? This is the dumbest marketing idea I've heard in a long long time.

Two dumber campaigns come to mind:
Burger King and the Submissive Chicken site.
William Gates and the shoe store ads.
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post #42 of 135
4/2/12 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And when you get to the part about actual use, the rest of the story comes out:
"From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."

If you want to be thorough you'd have to include these quotes from Anandtech too:
"The original iPhone 4 design was flawed. Although Apple downplayed the issue publicly, it solved the deathgrip antenna problem with the CDMA iPhone 4."

Along with this one:
"When we reviewed the GSM/UMTS iPhone 4, we investigated and explained why its design made it especially prone to unintended attenuation when held a certain way. Apple remedied the situation somewhat by giving away free cases, but only in the case of the CDMA iPhone 4 was the fundamental design issue remedied by adding receive diversity with a second cellular antenna at the top."

And don't forget this:
"When we reviewed the CDMA iPhone 4, I made mention of the fact that this was the first iPhone 4 I felt comfortable using without a case... unlike the GSM/UMTS iPhone 4."

Yup, all from Anandtech.

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"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #43 of 135
4/2/12 at 2:55pm
Way to jump on current events Nokia.
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post #44 of 135
4/2/12 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

Marketing 101 - Never bring up your competitors, it only takes the spotlight off of your product, and could back fire depending on the consumer. Especially when the competitive issue is two years old and has since been resolved. Nokia has not only ignored those principles, but actually paying someone to do it. I will enjoy seeing them crash and burn.

They'd all kill to get a fraction of Apple's free press, even if it's bad!

This is ridiculous. The market has spoken on the antenna issue. The verdict: what issue?

Maybe they can make an ad showing the MS iPhone funeral parade.
Emailing video from iPhone to Apple TV , sort of..
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Emailing video from iPhone to Apple TV , sort of..
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post #45 of 135
4/2/12 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The Antenna is Improved
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use. What this boils down to is Apple should have adjusted the signal bars to represent a lower dB before the iPhone 4 release because their clearly superior design of the iPhone 4 antennas allowed for connections that were not previously common with cellphones. They failed to account for this change and so people saw a drop in bars and thought this represented a lack of connectivity when the number of bars and the dB level are not static indications of the ability to make and receive calls and data across all phones.

Solip, you're already aware that reported signal strength, a non-issue, and antenna attenuation, the real issue, are two different things . We went over the same territory recently. No need to rehash it unless you're confused still. I suspect you aren't.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #46 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What do you mean doing it correctly? The message of those ads are exactly the same as what Apple tried with their ones, they are claiming their devices are better than their competitors.

Apple's ads were actually successful, and Apple had the goods to back them up. Duh.

They weren't desperate attempts to slander a far superior competitor with obvious lameness.
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post #47 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:01pm
So Nokia is pretty much going on record as claiming their phone will never drop calls, can be dropped without damage, and that its screen is easy to see in direct sunlight? Because if you're going to be snotty about those things, you'd better have a pretty compelling case to make that you've solved those problems.

Thing is, we know they haven't.

Signal strength is out of the handset makers hands, and as we know from "Antennagate", it was the edge case where anyone had a problem. Will no one ever use a Nokia Windows phone where their hand is somewhat attenuating reception and the signal strength is already marginal?

Can I drop my Nokia Windows phone from standing height onto concrete without fear of damage? Have they managed to engineer completely shock proof casing and glass? Will Nokia astonish the world with a new LCD technology that can overwhelm direct sunlight? Wow!

Yes, of course, it's all a matter of degrees (a good quality LCD is more legible than OLED in sunlight, I wouldn't be surprised if a slab of polycarbonate case is pretty robust), but that's not how they're playing it. They're implying those problems are on account of the "Beta" status of current cellphone design, and that they'll be the one to fix it.

I wonder if there will be a class action suit for misleading advertising the first time someone drops their Nokia screen first onto pavement?
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #48 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:03pm
In tech industries like cell phones, TVs, computers, operating systems, etc there is usually only room for 2 maybe 3 max top tier manufacturers. So if you look at providers of mobile OS, we have iOS, Android, WinPhone and Blackberry (not counting Symbian). Even if Android eventually becomes the clear majority in popularity, WinPhone and Blackberry will just be squabbling for table scraps until one gives up. HP was probably smart to bail on Palm even though they were dumb to buy it in the first place.

Actually I don't even see Android (proper smartphones) catching iOS simply because of Apple's ecosystem. Even Android users have iTunes installed on their computer and most likely have an iPod as well.

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post #49 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What do you mean doing it correctly? The message of those ads are exactly the same as what Apple tried with their ones, they are claiming their devices are better than their competitors.

Sorry, you're thinking it wrong.
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post #50 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:05pm
It has become status quo to use lies and deception in advertising products. The Nokia ad campaign should be exposed by everyone who knows the truth. Since the government isn't going to fix the problem of false advertising to more like it was in the 60s & 70s, we the consumer will have to fight for honesty in the marketplace. \
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post #51 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If you want to be thorough you'd have to include these quotes from Anandtech too:
"The original iPhone 4 design was flawed. Although Apple downplayed the issue publicly, it solved the deathgrip antenna problem with the CDMA iPhone 4."

Along with this one:
"When we reviewed the GSM/UMTS iPhone 4, we investigated and explained why its design made it especially prone to unintended attenuation when held a certain way. Apple remedied the situation somewhat by giving away free cases, but only in the case of the CDMA iPhone 4 was the fundamental design issue remedied by adding receive diversity with a second cellular antenna at the top."

And don't forget this:
"When we reviewed the CDMA iPhone 4, I made mention of the fact that this was the first iPhone 4 I felt comfortable using without a case... unlike the GSM/UMTS iPhone 4."

Yup, all from Anandtech.

Most of the antenna problem is actually mitigated in the CDMA iPhone 4. How? Antenna diversity.

Antenna diversity can be implemented a few different ways. You can switch between two different antennas quickly depending on which is experiencing temporary fade (from a hand touching it), or you can do some averaging and hope that even with significant fade on one antenna, there's still enough signal to keep you above cutoff. It's not clear what Apple has implemented on the CDMA iPhone 4, but as we'll show later, it definitely mitigates the problem in most cases. Diversity won't magically give you better signal strength (nor will it save you if you cover both), but it will help keep SNR and overall link quality high. The MDM6600 has full CDMA and WCDMA RF receive diversity support with the inclusion of an external switch. It's not entirely certain what part is the switch, but it's definitely there.

How else do we know that the CDMA iPhone 4 has diversity? It's part of Verizon's own specifications for what devices need to have to attach to their network. Buried in the required open alliance spec datasheets is the following:

There we have it, if you want a device approved for Verizon's EVDO network, you need receive diversity.

So we have the antenna design being improved, which was required, but we still have trolling comments that Apple improving something with subsequent releases means that it was inherently flawed despite nearly everything being improved YoY.

We even have the same GSM-based iPhone 4 still being sold throughout the world for nearly 2 years and yet there was no massive recall. There was no continued giving away of the Bumpers because it was impossible to use without one. There was no change from an external to an internal antenna with the two subsequent releases as claimed would happen because Apple was stupid for putting the antenna on the outside.

Apple has done something brilliant and two years later you're still trying to say they failed.

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post #52 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I have to ask:

1) What is the purpose of these ads?

2) At whom are they targeted?

3) What are they trying to motivate their target audience to do?

...They certainly aren't "brand promotion/recognition" ads -- more like simple trolling, actually...

1) Bring awareness to the Lumia 900
2) Anyone that wants to listen. And that includes DED and AppleInsider it seems
3) Consider the Lumia 900 when it is time to purchase a new phone

It seems to be working. The phone is not even released and it is in the "Best Sellers" (with 2 SKUs no less) list at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-C..._nav_cps_1_cps
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post #53 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Lame , lame lame.
I still have the first iPhone 4 and I have never, ever had a dropped call from the so called death grip. And why now. Why bring up this old issue nearly two damn years later?
Pathetic. Pathetic nokia.

Why? Because when you have a product you need to market that CAN'T stand on its own merits, you need to try to take down the competition a notch or two. Even if those antenna problems were fixed two years ago.
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post #54 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What do you mean doing it correctly? The message of those ads are exactly the same as what Apple tried with their ones, they are claiming their devices are better than their competitors.

That's pointlessly reductive. If the only metric for "exactly the same" is "claiming their devices are better than their competition", then all advertising is the same.

The difference here is that the I'm a Mac apps were relatively humorous, portrayed the PC character is basically well intentioned and likable but hamstrung by the limitations of the Windows OS, and stopped airing, you know, years ago. At this point we're heading towards "But they stole everything from Xerox!" territory, that is a go-to cliche for the desperate.

Whereas these Nokia ads portray the unnamed perpetrators behind the terrible phones to date as callous assholes, brushing off criticism with snide remarks and "blame the user" rhetoric.

That would be called a striking difference in tone and intent. However, I guess when all you have is an Apple hammer, the whole world looks like an Apple nail, so whatever.....
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post #55 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:12pm
All this shows is Nokia is desperate. Instead of innovating like Apple and other companies they just rode the wave until it crashed. Microsoft is not much different. I have never seen such BS marketing in the electronics market. Apple gives people what they want! They build integrated products that just work.
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post #56 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:14pm
First let me say that Windows Phone 7 is a good OS, in many ways it appears superior to iOS, and I have had the ability to hold and use a production Lumia 900 and it is fantastic, far more comfortable in my huge hands than the dainty little iPhone, but that said, this is embarrassing, MS/Nokia have a great product, they dont need to waste peoples time telling them why "apple sucks" particularly on a 2 year old flaw that was addressed in manufacturing revisions!

Nokia and MS could be a serious contender, I could see it taking a large bite out of android and a smaller but still significant bite out of iPhone, but they have to show how the OS is better, not how the competition screwed up 2 years ago...
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post #57 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellinator View Post

All this shows is Nokia is desperate. Instead of innovating like Apple and other companies they just rode the wave until it crashed. Microsoft is not much different. I have never seen such BS marketing in the electronics market. Apple gives people what they want! They build integrated products that just work.

have you USED windows phone 7.5? it was good enough to get me to give up iPhone, and I was there in 2007 baby! The apps are lacking, but that will come. Android is a hot mess, and Apple iOS is sitting on their success of 2007-2009, not innovating a bit, its like the Mac in the early 90s, it started as teh king of the hill, but Amega, BeOS, Windows, OS/2 and such were competing, and Apple just sat smugly until Windows 95 came out and wiped the floor with Macs of the day.

footnote, I should get the Lumia 900 Friday to replace my iPhone4
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post #58 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Most of the antenna problem is actually mitigated in the CDMA iPhone 4. How? Antenna diversity.

Antenna diversity can be implemented a few different ways. You can switch between two different antennas quickly depending on which is experiencing temporary fade (from a hand touching it), or you can do some averaging and hope that even with significant fade on one antenna, there's still enough signal to keep you above cutoff. It's not clear what Apple has implemented on the CDMA iPhone 4, but as we'll show later, it definitely mitigates the problem in most cases. Diversity won't magically give you better signal strength (nor will it save you if you cover both), but it will help keep SNR and overall link quality high. The MDM6600 has full CDMA and WCDMA RF receive diversity support with the inclusion of an external switch. It's not entirely certain what part is the switch, but it's definitely there.

How else do we know that the CDMA iPhone 4 has diversity? It's part of Verizon's own specifications for what devices need to have to attach to their network. Buried in the required open alliance spec datasheets is the following:

There we have it, if you want a device approved for Verizon's EVDO network, you need receive diversity.

So we have the antenna design being improved, which was required, but we still have trolling comments that Apple improving something with subsequent releases means that it was inherently flawed despite nearly everything being improved YoY.

We even have the same GSM-based iPhone 4 still being sold throughout the world for nearly 2 years and yet there was no massive recall. There was no continued giving away of the Bumpers because it was impossible to use without one.
Apple has done something brilliant and two years later you're still trying to say they failed.

No sir, all the data was posted by Anandtech. If there was a failure claimed it was by them, not me.
Are they lying about the results, or their comments can't be trusted since they're anti-Apple? What would be your explanation for their stated opinion based on their test results?

FWIW you have no idea if some change was made to the newer GSM iPhone sometime after the issues first arose. There was a question about that raised by iFixit, with the results inconclusive. You're assuming Apple made no changes since since Apple didn't mention it. Would you really expect them to acknowledge a flaw by announcing a change?

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #59 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

1) Bring awareness to the Lumia 900
2) Anyone that wants to listen. And that includes DED and AppleInsider it seems
3) Consider the Lumia 900 when it is time to purchase a new phone

It seems to be working. The phone is not even released and it is in the "Best Sellers" (with 2 SKUs no less) list at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-C..._nav_cps_1_cps

1) How? They don't mention the Lumina Phone (or any phone) -- just denigrate a phone that strongly resamples an iPhone or a slavish Sammy copy.

3) How do they do that when the Lumina wasn't mentioned -- or even ATT or the promotion/arrival date.


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post #60 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Solip, you're already aware that reported signal strength, a non-issue, and antenna attenuation, the real issue, are two different things . We went over the same territory recently. No need to rehash it unless you're confused still. I suspect you aren't.

Then why are you rehashing it?

The iPhone 4 series is the best selling phone of all times - and has extremely low return rates. If this problem is so real, why aren't people returning them left and right?

Funny how the people who own the phone don't think it's a problem, but here you are bringing it up years after it was debunked.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So Nokia is pretty much going on record as claiming their phone will never drop calls, can be dropped without damage, and that its screen is easy to see in direct sunlight? Because if you're going to be snotty about those things, you'd better have a pretty compelling case to make that you've solved those problems.

Thing is, we know they haven't.

Yep. I can't wait for the class action suits.
"I dropped my phone and it broke. Nokia said it wouldn't break"
"I was in the middle of the Mojave desert and couldn't get a signal. Nokia said that their phone didn't drop calls"
"I couldn't read my email in the middle of Death Valley at noon in July. Nokia said that wouldn't be a problem."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellinator View Post

All this shows is Nokia is desperate.

Desperate and stupid. Those ads were among the worst I've ever seen. There's a reason that Nokia's name does not appear on the ads. They don't want anyone to know that the ads are their work.
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post #61 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yep. I can't wait for the class action suits.
"I dropped my phone and it broke. Nokia said it wouldn't break"
"I was in the middle of the Mojave desert and couldn't get a signal. Nokia said that their phone didn't drop calls"
"I couldn't read my email in the middle of Death Valley at noon in July. Nokia said that wouldn't be a problem."

That won't happen. Nokia simply doesn't have the mindshare.

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post #62 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

1) How? They don't mention the Lumina Phone (or any phone) -- just denigrate a phone that strongly resamples an iPhone or a slavish Sammy copy.

3) How do they do that when the Lumina wasn't mentioned -- or even ATT or the promotion/arrival date.


...Friends, Romans, Countrymen... I got sompin' I wanna' tell ya'

1) Interesting. They didn't mention it, yet through word of mouth (or blog in this case) you were able to figure it out. Not bad.

3) That's how viral campaigns are done. Thank you for participating. Nokia would be proud
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post #63 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

1) How? They don't mention the Lumina Phone (or any phone) -- just denigrate a phone that strongly resamples an iPhone or a slavish Sammy copy.

3) How do they do that when the Lumina wasn't mentioned -- or even ATT or the promotion/arrival date.


...Friends, Romans, Countrymen... I got sompin' I wanna' tell yus'

Is the 'Lumina' meant to be snide or a general misspelling?

His Amazons link seems a bit suspect, the iPhone 3G 8GB is the best selling unlocked phone, unless that's just how things roll in the states.

Now, about this Lumina phone, only drawback seems to be the screen. On the advertising side, yeah it's confrontational and this is an Apple site, but the Droid/iDon't etc. ads seemed to work don't they. AT&T want a new hero phone and the 900 may just fit the bill.
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post #64 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:26pm
Just in general, I wonder why rival keep being tempted to call out the iPhone for things that we pretty much know aren't issues?

We've had the Droid "porcelain princess" ads, that were incoherent and a bit scary, apparently trading on at least someone's notion that the iPhone was fey and delicate and pretty, whereas Droid was mud spattered, gun wielding penis.

We've had the Samsung line losers ad, which posits that the hundreds of millions of people that have bought the iPhone are all precious hipsters who haven't heard about how awesome Samsung is.

And now (IMO) the weakest of the bunch, bringing up 2 year old "controversy" and kind of marginal bullshit.

Is the iPhone so good that no one can think of anything substantiative to hit back with, leaving them only with either trivial performance issues or weird takes on the psychology of potential buyers?
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post #65 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Then why are you rehashing it?

I was replying to a poster who thought the issue was imaginary. . .

and the article is about Nokia dredging up the issue in their teaser ads. . .

And claiming the entire thing was made up originally to hurt Apple isn't true. . .

. . . and if posters want to discuss it don't they deserve all the facts rather than made-up explanations?

or they could just go with the Jragosta version where it never happened. Which Google number was that one again? Number 1?

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post #66 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Apple's ads were actually successful, and Appel had the goods to back them up. Duh.

So on day one of the days existing you have determined how successful they are?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

They weren't desperate attempts to slander a far superior competitor with obvious lameness.

um, yes they were
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post #67 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That won't happen. Nokia simply doesn't have the mindshare.

True. Plus, does anyone know if these "ads" are even going to air anywhere? They kind of look like website teaser stuff of the sort that never gets beyond that page. I guess they might be a hint as to the tone of a general campaign, but where would they go with this? Sly innuendo is best in small doses. If they actually ran a TV campaign wherein they come right out and say that all the other smart phones are fragile and theirs isn't, they're really asking for trouble.
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post #68 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodude View Post

His Amazons link seems a bit suspect, the iPhone 3G 8GB is the best selling unlocked phone, unless that's just how things roll in the states.

You can buy the iPhone 4 16GB/32GB at Amazon, but it will cost you 504$/619$ so one has to guess it won't be a big seller on that site.
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post #69 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

1) Interesting. They didn't mention it, yet through word of mouth (or blog in this case) you were able to figure it out. Not bad.

3) That's how viral campaigns are done. Thank you for participating. Nokia would be proud

This is a tech site... in case you hadn't noticed!

Most of us, here, are aware of the pending Lumina ATT intro -- from articles here and other tech blogs.

I didn't need to figure it out -- the articles/blogs spell it out.

I did not, and am not, participating in a viral ad campaign by posting to a tech blog.


Where are the classic ads....


"Coming Soon..."

'Why 1984 won't be like "1984"... '
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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– Alan Kay –
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post #70 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

This is a tech site... in case you hadn't noticed!

Most of us, here, are aware of the pending Lumina ATT intro -- from articles here and other tech blogs.

I didn't need to figure it out -- the articles/blogs spell it out.

I did not, and am not, participating in a viral ad campaign by posting to a tech blog.


Where are the classic ads....


"Coming Soon..."

'Why 1984 won't be like "1984"... '

Of course I wasn't reffering to *you* specifically

And you should REALLY try to spell it right Mr Techy: L-U-M-I-A
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post #71 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That's pointlessly reductive. If the only metric for "exactly the same" is "claiming their devices are better than their competition", then all advertising is the same.

The difference here is that the I'm a Mac apps were relatively humorous, portrayed the PC character is basically well intentioned and likable but hamstrung by the limitations of the Windows OS, and stopped airing, you know, years ago. At this point we're heading towards "But they stole everything from Xerox!" territory, that is a go-to cliche for the desperate.

Whereas these Nokia ads portray the unnamed perpetrators behind the terrible phones to date as callous assholes, brushing off criticism with snide remarks and "blame the user" rhetoric.

That would be called a striking difference in tone and intent. However, I guess when all you have is an Apple hammer, the whole world looks like an Apple nail, so whatever.....

You are taking that viewpoint as you have a vested interest in one particular side, your last statement verifies this. But in case you weren't aware some people found Apples PC vs mac ads quite offensive, maybe you can take a guess at what side they were on?

People that don't have a current interest in smartphones may take this as an opportunity to look at an alternative
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post #72 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Just in general, I wonder why rival keep being tempted to call out the iPhone for things that we pretty much know aren't issues?

And now (IMO) the weakest of the bunch, bringing up 2 year old "controversy" and kind of marginal bullshit.

And I agree. Whatever signal attenuation issue the original iPhone 4 suffered has apparently been corrected, so Nokia/Microsoft making it the focus of a teaser ad smells a bit desperate. I can't imagine what market research they depended on that said potential buyers would respond to the old "antenna-gate" controversy. Not the way to go IMO.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #73 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I was replying to a poster who thought the issue was imaginary. . .

and the article is about Nokia dredging up the issue in their teaser ads. . .

And claiming the entire thing was made up originally to hurt Apple isn't true. . .

. . . and if posters want to discuss it don't they deserve all the facts rather than made-up explanations?

or they could just go with the Jragosta version where it never happened. Which Google number was that one again? Number 1?

I like how when you get pressed your "just an interested bystander" mask starts to slip a bit and you let your asshole flag fly. Good for you.

Anyway, all "the facts" you need in this case is the popularity of the iPhone 4 and its very, very low return rates. If ""Antennagate" were much more than opportunistic sniping and tech blog piling on, how would those things possibly be true? Word would get around with users that the damn thing dropped calls if you held it wrong, leading to declining sales and rising returns. Unless of course you want to go the full troll and just claim that the "sheeple" will put up with anything Apple sells them? That couldn't be it, could it?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #74 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I have to ask:

1) What is the purpose of these ads?

2) At whom are they targeted?

3) What are they trying to motivate their target audience to do?

...They certainly aren't "brand promotion/recognition" ads -- more like simple trolling, actually...

1. To raise awareness to industry issues
2. People that don't own smartphones
3. Look at alternatives.

There is two reasons they appear like trolling to you.

1. Standard AI answer to everything
2. You are on the extreme side of Apple fanaticism to which you can't see the possibility of an alternative to an Apple product.
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post #75 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:39pm
I'd love to see how many of the creatives that managed this campaign are using iPhones, or Android phones. I bet zero are using any of the Nokia Windows phones, unless they were given to them and told they had to use them in order to keep the account.

There is nothing wrong with attack ads. They can be very effective, but you do take a chance that the consumer may not connect well enough with your own brand. I'm not even sure why they're making using the iPhone antenna issue - the iPhone 4 was a blockbuster sales hit. It still is. Instead of trying to convince people that there is an issue, when there isn't, they should be going after new customers and those that are unhappy with things that continue to be problems - like Android's UI lag.

But then again, I'm not getting paid millions to make suggestions to Nokia and given they are a European company and know better what they're doing than any crazy American, I'll keep quiet.

I will say this, that MS and Nokia are not going to see the returns they thought they would - not this year and possibly not next year either - unless something drastic happens to Google or Apple. RIM is going through the exact same issue, but at least they have some market to hold on to, at least compared to MS/Nokia.
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post #76 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

2. You are on the extreme side of Apple fanaticism to which you can't see the possibility of an alternative to an Apple product.

If there were actually *viable* alternatives then his view would probably be different. ("Windows on a phone" = LOL.)

The Nokia/MS partnership aint it.

Two turkeys don't make a right. Certainly not with that nasty Metro UI and a woefully under-featured platform.
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post #77 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:41pm
I hate to admit this -- in my opinion this phone is a child of a horrible arranged marriage -- but the Lumia 800 is nothing short of amazing in terms of build quality, UI, look and feel. I played with one last weekend and despite my initial skepticism I was left with a very nice impression not only from the hardware but also from WP. No wonder if Nokia is grasping for straws while trying to attract attention to this product...
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post #78 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

I'd love to see how many of the creatives that managed this campaign are using iPhones, or Android phones. I bet zero are using any of the Nokia Windows phones, unless they were given to them and told they had to use them in order to keep the account.

And how much are you willing to wager?
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post #79 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

1) Interesting. They didn't mention it, yet through word of mouth (or blog in this case) you were able to figure it out. Not bad.

3) That's how viral campaigns are done. Thank you for participating. Nokia would be proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodude View Post

Is the 'Lumina' meant to be snide or a general misspelling?

His Amazons link seems a bit suspect, the iPhone 3G 8GB is the best selling unlocked phone, unless that's just how things roll in the states.

Now, about this Lumina phone, only drawback seems to be the screen. On the advertising side, yeah it's confrontational and this is an Apple site, but the Droid/iDon't etc. ads seemed to work don't they. AT&T want a new hero phone and the 900 may just fit the bill.

Ha! My mistake... I just assumed the phone was called "Lumina" instead of its real name "Lumia"... no slur intended...

But, it shows how successful the ads were -- viral or not -- I didn't even get the name right.


Old IBM Postulate: It doesn't matter how badly you screw up -- they'll remember your name, not what you did!"

Jay Lerner: "The French don't care what you do, actually -- as long as you pronounce it properly!"

Ugly American: "When in a foreign country, speaking to a native who doesn't understand what you are saying -- speak more slowly and louder..."
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #80 of 135
4/2/12 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I have to ask:

1) What is the purpose of these ads?

To revive a failing platform (or one that never really left the gate.)

Which explains their desperation in reaching for "antenna-gate", which consumers had rendered meaningless ages ago. It simply didn't matter, and is barely recognizable today.

One wonders why MS and Nokia are consistently brain-dead when it comes to marketing.
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