Rumor: Apple to release new iMacs with Core i5, i7 CPUs in June or July - Page 3

In light of the Final Cut software you mention. Mere semantics. Pro/Con/Sumer. *Gets out his carving knife for thin slices of meaning...

Lemon Bon Bon.

Wow, you've got me beat on wait time. I jumped the gun and sold my iMac (not the same one I mentioned in my earlier post) last summer in anticipation of a Mac Pro refresh that has yet to (or may never) materialize. I've been getting by with a Core i7 MBP in the interim that loves to go to turbofan mode.

Hmm. An iMac on a stand you can Cintiq collapse and spread your hands around on a 27 inch screen.

Don't know about folks here, but I'm tired already just thinking about it...

Finger smear on my iPad works ok, though...

Lemon Bon Bon.

Presumably, but then those rumors stopped swirling last year when the allegedly imminent Mac Pro refresh/update insisted on not materializing.

Unlikely to happen. Apple is basically done with announcing at 3rd party events. They won't do it unless there is a value to the announcement and then it is more likely to be software than hardware. The whole NAB Final Cut X thing was because that was a core group they wanted to get on board and doing the reveal there was a way to start the hype going and make that group feel special. But announcing hardware there lacks the same value AND it puts them on someone else's time table which Apple hates. The best that might happen at NAB is that they will have already announced the Mac Pro or silently released it and could have a demo model for folks there to see. But the initial talk won't be at NAB

Agreed. If you are talking about a store kiosk, fine. But for typical users it's just not practical.

Now better support for things like those iPad apps that Adobe did that you can use alongside your desktop software, sure that is doable, practical and even smart. Being able to Airdrop files between your Mac and your iPad, sure. That would be awesome (as would a single file bucket in iOS even if we can't see it directly)

But a giant touchscreen computer. not so awesome

You mean like they already are. They ignored USB 3 in favor of thunderbolt. Which would be fine if the externals weren't crazy expensive.

Sound a bit like Wizard. He's on a Macbook Pro (I think...2008?)

Respectable machines. The gap has narrowed, historically, between laptops and desktops.

I wanted a Pro. But Apple kept putting the price up after the G3, G4, G5, Intel chips...etc. The magic Pro never arrived. (I nearly bought the dual quads version when it was around 2K)

Compared to the Core2 Duo I have now, I'd tear Apple's arm off for the 27 inch i7 quad core with 2 gigs Vram 6970M gpu.

Eh...I'll see what they release this year. Don't see me upgrading unless there's a surprise on HiDPI screens and more cores added to the top of the line.

I think I'm another year or two away from what I want.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Yeah.

And it just a speedbump. Nothing significant.

I agree that a touch screen is a ways off (if ever) for most desktop productivity jobs...

But, there are some creative uses that are just begging to be re-impmelented as apps with multitouch:

-- any of the drawing/painting apps
-- some architectural/drafting/CAD apps
-- music and video creation and editing apps

We're already seeing some of this on the iPad and iPhone -- GarageBand, iMovie, Avid Studio, iPhoto, AutoDesk and Adobe apps.

I can easily visualize Apple's Pro apps, FCP X, Aperture, Logic being enhanced to support multitouch...

In FCP X, for example the skimming feature, where you can quickly preview clips by skimming (not dragging) the cursor -- why have the abstraction of a mouse/cursor at all -- just reach out [down] and do it with your finger(s). Same for Ripple, Roll, Slip and Slide, sub clip selection or the Precision Editor.

In FCP X multicam editing where you have up to 16 clips (out of 64) playing simultaneously, and you want to cut between clips. Currently. you use the mouse/cursor abstraction or pressing keyboard keys abstraction. Why not just touch the one you want, when you want it?

Same for any sound or effect (color correction, etc.) where you use multiple sliders to get the results you want -- with touch, you can change multiple settings at once -- instead of using the mouse/cursor or keyboard to change settings on-at-a-time (then going back, multiple times, until you get them all in balance).

When in a creative fit (a rit of felous jage), sometimes there's just no substitute for getting in there with both hands -- getting your hands dirty!

Shhhh....

Lemon Bon Bon.

I'm of the opinion that the Mac Pro will get a serious redesign. That however doesn't mean high performance computing will be gone from the Mac Line up. Rather I think the opposite will happen in that whatever replaces the Mac Pro will be dramatically faster and more powerful.

The problem is pretty clear, big boxes are no longer needed to make powerful computers. In fact they are a deterrent as the electronics has to get smaller and more densely packed to continue to increase performance. People wishing for another rev of the Mac Pro, in it's current case, are not looking towards the future. Apple needs to get a new platform out that is ready for the future, something that will stay around for another 5-10 years.


Until we see what Apple does, all of this sweating over what Apple might do is just ignorance. Computer design will change rapidly in the next few years. Intel has already let some of this out of the bag so to speak, but think in terms of high integration (SoC) and 3D technologies. Has well will be a SoC for lower end machines, at the upper end Intel has a processor coming with Infiniband built in. In between will be an array of components. Memory technologies of the future will be high performance 3D stacks.

Taken all together these technologies imply smaller tightly packed computers. Physics dictates that memory be in close proximity to the CPU and like wise other components are impacted by their distances from the CPU.

So yeah I think the Mac Pro is dead, that is not however a bad thing at all. In fact I would hope that it is a sign of things to come. Done right the Mac Pros replacement could be 2-3x faster than today's machine in a much smaller box.

USB 3.0, Bluetooth 4.0, a faster updated Thunderbolt using optical instead of copper wiring, will use the Intel GPU and will come with Lion pre loaded with a free upgrade to Mountain Lion. And I'm thinking as a way out there prediction is that we may see a 30" or 32" screen size offered.

Basically I didn't know that MobileMe would cease to work properly in Snow Leopard if I went into the cloud. I wanted to end to cable to the iMac syncing. I have a 13 MBP in the cloud too.Basically the good old iMac has 2 email accounts that I use- one being the mobileme. I think I will need to delete the mobileme as is then create it from scratch based on the link I got. Except I'll probably will loose history- (I need to get a new ext HD and time machine it first). I almost bought a new iMac last fall. I definitely need one sooner than later. The iMac has always been my favorite Apple device. Not really a laptop person-must be the lack of a number keypad.

Nowhere did I state I would use it for typing or even as a keyboard for that matter. No pounding please!
Have you ever tried playing a piano with a keyboard or drawing with a mouse as oppsed to using your fingers or a stylus?

In some cases I'd go so far as to say it would be next to impossible to derive any benefit from touch. Intelligent voice input free of the network has a better chance of being a productivity boost.

Note that I did say some specific cases would benefit. But even hear, let's say you are an engineer drawing something in a CAD system, detail work would be very tedious with a Touch screen. Some levels of design might benefit a bit from touch but I suspect it would be very modal.

Yes I have a couple of those apps! That is we're part of my position comes from, it isn't the same user experience as a mouse or track pad.

Sure I can see this too. The problem is I don't see it as the type of feature users will embrace.

For a casual user there is likely no problem. For a professional I see huge issues. A hard flat screen is an ergonomics nightmare, especially if forced to use such screen 8 hours a day. It is nice to take these cases out of context and imagine how nice they would be. The problem is what works for a minute will not hold up for hours at a time.

It is really a question of where you want to put your hands. One big issue, if we ignore fatique, is the visual obstruction you hand becomes. This can be a big issue for some with iPad apps. Then you get into that whole issue of precision and the lack of visual feedback do to the fingers blocking your view.

In the end I just don't see an overwhelming advantage for most users. In some real cases the use of touch screens would be a regression.

Actually Apple has the perfect platform to test my position out on. Take GarageBand on an iPad and a Mac and do the same things for four hours straight on each one. Then come back aNd tell us which one left you feeling more uncomfortable at the end. Do this on separate days. I'm willing to bet the Mac interface allows for a longer time in the app.

This has happened before. Apple was not the first to support USB on a computer. They were behind the rest of the pack with USB 2, as well.

In this case, it's probably chipset support that's the issue. Apple does not like to add extra chips to the motherboard without a pretty good reason. And USB 3 over USB 2 is not a sufficient reason. Only a very tiny number of people would even see the difference and even fewer would care.

When Ivy Bridge comes out, Apple will be able to offer USB 3 without adding another chip, so it's quite likely that it will happen then.


Nonsense. Apple can't get future OSs accepted without a touchscreen desktop? You're dreaming. No one I know wants to use a touchscreen on a desktop - or even a laptop, for that matter.


Why? What does Apple gain by doing that? USB 3 is supported by the chip set, so they don't have to do any more work to include it. There's absolutely no reason to leave it out.

If you're going to argue that they'll leave it out to encourage Thunderbolt, that's no more plausible than the predictions that Apple would never support USB 2 to encourage Firewire.

I don't agree at all!

Apple changed their name, not because they no longer make computers -- rather, they make computers and a lot more!


Apple has an unique advantage in that they have both the hardware and the software for both computers and mobile/post-pc... whatever.


both the hardware and the software for both computers and mobile/post-pc...

Microsoft or any of the WinPC manufacturers do not have this advantage.

Google/MMI or any of the Android OEMs do not have this advantage,


Where can you go, to get one-stop-shopping (a single integrated solution) for the desktop and mobile for the pro, prosumer, consumer... Only one answer... Apple.


I think, Apple under Tim Cook (with his background and education), will be more pro business/enterprise than it ever was under Steve Jobs.

I believe that Apple really screwed up with how they handled the FCP X announcement (and FCP 7 EOL). But, 8 months later Apple released major enhancements to FCP X that filled in most of the major deficiencies (FCP 7 would go 12-18 months for minor enhancements). Now, FCP X is being revisited by the "pros" because it is fast, productive and has some capabilities like multicam that are the best implementation out there...

It the past, Apple would sneak in the back door of enterprise by targeting the creative departments. Today, Apple is [boldly] walking in the side door with iPhones and iPads... or strutting in the front door all the way to the executive suite.

I believe that Tim recognizes the above advantages and will exploit them!

/sermon

I can't imagine using a glass screen for a piano is good for your fingers in the long run. Sure it has advantages over a keyboard, but a real keyboard has advantages over both.

As to drawing, in my case drafting, I use the track pad on my MBP. Either that or enter specific objects in place from the keyboard. I suspect that the difference here is that drawing to you is Etch-a-sketch like activity while I see drawing as a precision engineering activity. Even then a bitmaped like drawing app is still easier to deal with via a mouse, I just have a hard time with the big paws obstructing the very surface I'm trying to draw on.

Yes, I agree... my early-2008 Mac Pro is finally starting to show it's age... and I've been waiting and waiting (and waiting) for Apple to update the Mac Pro so I can buy a new one.

Apple has no interest in USB3 when they have Thunderbolt.

Apple has nothing to gain by spending time supporting USB3... not when they have Thunderbolt.

Yes. That's clearly Apple's weakness. No ideas...

Of course they do. Too many people buy computers via checklist. Since Apple will be able to support USB 3 at essentially zero cost, there's no reason for them not to.

It's the same situation that occurred when USB 2 came out. People argued that Apple would never support USB 2 because they had Firewire. Apple supported both. I expect the same thing to happen with Thunderbolt/USB 3.

I don't see the issue here.


Agreed.


Thunderbolt and pushing it.


Not for a few years.


Not unless it comes out/is purchased by you two weeks before its launch.


30" no. And then 32" begs the purpose. It would be a decade before we could then get a retina display for that thing.


That's not what I said, but what you're thinking about is correct. No one you know has seen a good multitouch desktop OS, by the way.


Thunderbolt. It's not necessarily about 'gains'.


USB 2 was never a threat to even FireWire 400, much less 800.


Yes, that's clearly Apple's weakness: not redesigning the case for the sole purpose of doing so.

I think you are right, but I should mention that Apple is listed as a "company in attendance" at NAB this year. Not an exhibitor (naturally).

Larry Jordan has been promoting NAB 2012:


Getting Ready For NAB 2012

"Lots of new announcements coming. Im looking forward to sharing the details with you as soon as Im allowed."

Now, Larry didn't specifically mention Apple -- but I suspect he is aware of any coming FCP X updates -- as well as 3rd-party enhancements/plugins/interfaces to FCP X.

It would be interesting if they reconstituted some 2011 FCP panels:

Pre FCP X announce:

NAB Editors Lounge, and the Future of Final Cut Pro.


and Post FCP X announce:

Final Cut Pro X: Now What?

I figured as much, but the alternative speculative date was much less desirable, being the WWDC. I think, like you say, they'll just announce it on their timetable or just do a silent roll-out if/when they're good and ready.

OK! I agree with that...

Except... "Done right the Mac Pros replacement could be 2-3x faster than today's machine in several smaller boxes.

WWDC is an Apple event.

I'm not sweating over what Apple will do, I'd just wish they'd do it already. I quite honestly don't care if it's in the same form as the existing MacPro, some radical redesign or something in between as long as it represents a significant step forward.

Oops, I got WWDC confused with Macworld Expo. Where's that Picard face-palm pic when you need it?



Ahh, there we go.

Mac-Pro upgrade......please Apple please make it happen.... any time soon!\
Don't let us down.

A stylus can be used for precision work -- as on a Wacom tablet... not up to Wacom's precision, yet!

There are non-Apple iPad apps that address the precision issues, for example:

1) when typing text and you select -- you have virtual arrow keys, that position/reposition the cursor as you would do on a regular keyboard.

2) when positioning a cursor for text or non-text -- you have a loupe that magnifies the text but its position is offset from where the finger is actually touching the screen -- say an inch or so offset from the loupe.

3) you can move the loupe or move the cursor with the arrows -- and the selection in the loupe moves with the cursor.

Also, I believe we are at the very early stage of refining the touch UI. Basically, almost everything so far is defined by the lowest-common-denominator 3.5" screen. If Apple (or others) rethink the touch UI from the perspective of non-mobile, larger screen devices and uses, I think we'll see some extraordinary productivity gains.

To illustrate what I mean about rethinking the touch UI...

Say you want to do some precision editing of a 4K image down to the pixel level:

-- drag the image to where the area you want to edit is displayed on the screen
-- pinch zoom to get to a comfortable magnification level.

New Touch gestures for large-screen precision editing -- as in 2) above:

-- touch-hold a single finger where you want the magnifying loupe to appear
-- touch a second finger where you want the finger offset to the loupe control to be
-- release the first finger, the loupe remains
-- release the second finger, the loupe control remains
-- move any finger within the loupe control to reposition the loupe to the area desired
-- touch a magnification control to position to the exact pixel

-- repeat the first 2 steps to reposition the loupe and loupe control

-- swipes and drags made outside the loupe control move the image underneath the loupe (the loupe and control remain where they are)
-- touch any other controls displayed on the screen to select color, bezier pen, brush, whatever.


The above gestures can be done with fingers on one or both hands -- and are easier to do than describe. Not only that you will find you can do things much faster.

This same approach could be used to replace the puck used for most CAD operations -- a virtual loupe/puck.

Now, think for a moment of the possibilities of editing an image, drawing, video -- using 2 hands.

Sure, there would need to be some rethinking of the UI, and most certainly the apps... that's progress -- but the potential is there to improve certain operations twofold... tenfold?

As to your last point -- we are comparing apps that were designed for the desktop and modified for the touch UI including a 3.5" screen. In GarageBand app designed for a large touch screen it could take advantage of things that are easy with touch but almost impossible with a mouse/kb...

Say, display a guitar fretboard and the playing area... you could fret and strum/pick/finger pick at the same time...

That'd be some pretty weird fretting... maybe 'Lisbeth Cotten. You could play it like a steel guitar or create a whole new string instrument -- the touch guitar.

GarageBand, as it exists, has no ability to do things with both hands (mouse with kb modifications, excepted) because there is no way to do it without touch!

This is incorrect.
Apple has never offered anti-reflective screens. They have offered anti-glare screens.


Matte is not the same as anti-reflective is not the same as anti-glare.

This would be really nice, especially if they went for a HiDPI displays. The current design is starting to look really chunky next to the svelte Macbook Airs.

My 24 inch iMac could do with a refresh this year, but at this point I feel it's not worth buying anything that doesn't ship with a HiDPI display.

Gee I hope this pan out (sooner than later). I got the money in the bank to buy an all out BTO iMac. My iMac 8,1 still is going strong but I want a fast one.

If you want the latest Technology, you'll end up waiting, instead of buying. I know it doesn't seem like the right decision to buy a Mac Pro now, but if your current one is not up to the tasks you throw at it, get a new one. Now.


When I got the 30'' I thought it might be too big, but went for it as it is matte. Now looking at that 30'' I sure wish they would make them larger. If the iMac gets a larger than 30'' screen, I'd be in awe, but won't buy it if it's glossy (which was the whole reason for me to keep on buying Mac Pro's instead of iMacs, ; don't really need all the power, just wanted a matte screen).

If they release larger than 30'' iMacs with a matte screen I'll be happy to buy one after the Mac Pro gets old, which could take a few more years.


I sure hope Steve was right when he told Walt at AllThingsD that we will still need the trucks, just less of them, which to me sounded like he thought the Mac Pro still has its place.


Hear hear! I don't like that glossy anymore than..., well, I guess we're in the minority here.

I'm not sure they've run out of ideas but I do think they've lost interest. In many ways the original coloured iMacs are still my favourite. They were innovative. I would like to see them break that design straight jacket they seem to have been in for the past 10 years and bring us something innovative and drop dead gorgeous again. Ultra modern, all black with no effing silver anywhere and edge to edge screen. I hope they don't go for yet another minor cosmetic update.

One big question for the next iMac will be whether any of Apple's TV tech makes the cut.

On the one hand, they'd want to wait for a big fall announcement before showing their TV service to their competitors. On the other, the 27" iMac will essentially be the low end (screen size wise) of the Apple TV line.

That camera above the iMac screen is under-utilized. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are all using gestures now. Does Apple have any patents that would be applicable to computer usage? And what about Siri-style controls?

Forget the touchscreen idea. It's only good for NCIS. But gestures and voice? That's another matter.