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Google rumored to launch sub-$250 7-inch tablet in July - Page 3

post #81 of 121
4/7/12 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

If Android loses momentum and an Android user decides to switch. Which platform would that person most likely switch to? Apple or Microsoft? Personally, I think the majority will most likely switch to Apple since the two platforms are very similar in appearance, Metro has too many mixed reviews. Plus, Apple has the most apps 500,000 and counting than Windows 70,000 and counting.

Depends. A significant number of Android purchasers are simply anti-Apple and would probably migrate to Windows Mobile. I would hate to guess how large that portion is.
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post #82 of 121
4/7/12 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Perhaps if it was Apple or Amazon, but not in Google's case. They're audited by an independent 3rd party under the direction of the FTC, assuring they keep to the requirements and obligations under their stated privacy policy. It prohibits what you're worried about happening and audited yearly to be sure it doesn't.

All I'll say is that you're far more trusting than I, and the oversight does expire.

Even with legislation, many companies, Google included, continue to skirt on the edge of what's legal, let alone what's "moral". It may not even all be "on purpose", but that only enhances my point.

Google is in a position right now, where it makes sense financially and strategically for them to be an aggregator of personal data (at unprecedented levels) from many sources, and a private disaggregator. I don't see them selling this data in any large way in the near future, as it would hurt their competitive advantage.

But at the end of the day, the amount of personal data that they have access to and can assemble is something that no single party or organization should ever have. Ever. It isn't that Google is an evil company, it's that the potential for misuse and abuse is unfathomable. They've already been hacked by the Chinese gov, and you can imagine how that went down for many of their citizens. That's the tip of the iceberg.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #83 of 121
4/7/12 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I already have two iPads. I guess I'm that I'm not their target customer, which is somebody who's looking for a tiny, shitty, inferior performing tablet, running the worst mobile OS in the universe.

Worst mobile OS in the universe, oh my gosh a little melodramatic aren't we. I'm now running full Linux applications on my Android tablet and I can actually get real work done. With the new Linux kernel now supporting Android it's only going to be a matter of time till we have the ultimate mobile OS. As a programmer I really wish you could see Android threw my eyes, it's a playground of possibilities. I finally have the light weight Linux OS I've been looking for. Did you know you can install Netbeans or Eclipse on a Android tablet. I now have a C++ compiler installed for goodness sakes.

I'm now holding both my new iPad and my Galaxy 7.7" and for the life of me I can't figure out why people on this forum hates this OS so much. You can do so much more with a Android tablet it's ridiculous. I like my iPad for one reason only, the applications, that's it. The OS has absolutely no advanced features unless you Jail break it, even then it still can't hold a candle to what I can do on my Android tablets. It is a phone OS not a tablet OS.

As a consumer user who just want's something simple and elegant I can see the iPad's appeal but if your a pro user or especially a programmer the I'm sorry Android 4.03 all the way.
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post #84 of 121
4/7/12 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Depends. A significant number of Android purchasers are simply anti-Apple and would probably migrate to Windows Mobile. I would hate to guess how large that portion is.

Oh get off it, there is no Android vs. Apple conflict. People buy phones according to price first, functionally second and how it looks third. I hope more people migrate to Windows Mobile as it is a wonderful OS and I would hate for it to disappear. If there was a group of people who are anti-Apple then it would be extremely small. I think some of you guys need this fantasy conflict to make you feel like some sort of minority group that is being persecuted. The fact is you are the majority, Apple has won the market , enjoy the victory.
I've seen things you little people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion bright as magnesium. I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the...
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post #85 of 121
4/7/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

People buy phones according to price first, functionally second and how it looks third.

So you bought your Note based on price?
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post #86 of 121
4/7/12 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

So you bought your Note based on price?

The Galaxy Note now costs 540 US dollars vs. the 720 US dollars the iPhone commands here in Switzerland. That is an incredible price for what you get but no I received my Note threw work. They replaced our Blackberry's with them. I actually would have never bought a Note if wasn't for that. I even thought it was ridiculous when I had it my hands but after using it for a night I now think it is one of the best phones for business on the market.

I think you were trying to tell me that the Galaxy Note is very expensive in the States. That is AT&T's doing I even think that version of the Note isn't really a Note. The CPU doesn't hold a candle to the international version and it's filled with crap ware from the provider. I always recommend buying the unlocked original version, it's always cheaper in the long wrong.

I really wanted to buy the white Nokia N9 with 64GB last year but the price they wanted for was beyond that I wanted to pay. So yes price is always number one unless your very wealthy. I finally got my white Nokia N9 just last month but at half the price. What an amazing phone she is but that is for another day.
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post #87 of 121
4/7/12 at 1:52pm
I know a lot of you shun the idea of a 250 dollar tablet from Google but I think it's the start of Google finally realizing that if they want their dream of making the perfect tablet come true they are going to have to do it themselves. These manufactures are destroying the Android platform with all of these stupid customization.

If company's would just focus on the hardware side and leave the OS alone there wouldn't be this fragmentation problem.

The one negative thought that every reviewer has with Android is with the company's custom shells, everyone of them is bad, unbelievable bad.
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post #88 of 121
4/7/12 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

The Galaxy Note now costs 540 US dollars vs. the 720 US dollars the iPhone commands here in Switzerland. That is an incredible price for what you get but no I received my Note threw work. They replaced our Blackberry's with them. I actually would have never bought a Note if wasn't for that. I even thought it was ridiculous when I had it my hands but after using it for a night I now think it is one of the best phones for business on the market.

I think you were trying to tell me that the Galaxy Note is very expensive in the States. That is AT&T's doing I even think that version of the Note isn't really a Note. The CPU doesn't hold a candle to the international version and it's filled with crap ware from the provider. I always recommend buying the unlocked original version, it's always cheaper in the long wrong.

I really wanted to buy the white Nokia N9 with 64GB last year but the price they wanted for was beyond that I wanted to pay. So yes price is always number one unless your very wealthy. I finally got my white Nokia N9 just last month but at half the price. What an amazing phone she is but that is for another day.

I don't think price is #1. To you, maybe, but for the majority of iPhone buyers I would say that functionality would be #1. As you pointed out... the iPhone is expensive and yet Apple still sells millions of them. If price was the first consideration then people wouldn't buy an iPhone... you said it yourself. Besides... I would imagine that your office didn't buy Notes because they are the lowest priced phone on the market. Functionality would be my guess. I mean, we are just guessing, right.
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post #89 of 121
4/7/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Oh get off it, there is no Android vs. Apple conflict.

Baloney. With over 1700 posts, you know better.

All you have to do is read the threads here to see that there are people who absolutely refuse to buy an Apple product - no matter how good it is - just because it's from Apple. And reading articles and blogs elsewhere, it's clear that it's not just AI where those people hang out.
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post #90 of 121
4/7/12 at 6:34pm
In regards to a smaller iPad:

We know Steve wouldn't do it. This usually means one of two things; either it's a stupid idea (which, considering the not-entirely-irrelevant 7-inch device sales, doesn't look hugely likely at this point), or the technology wasn't there to do it credit.

So, on that note, what technology?

Edge-to-edge screen would need some extra work on multi-touch to block out unintentional touches... this has been done with trackpads, and some iOS apps exhibit interesting behaviour in regards to multiple touches, being able to hold down a button, which when released performs an action, whilst flicking through a list with another finger... and it remembers which one is which. Ignoring gripping hands would be great for a little iPad, as would a decreased footprint (?) to screen-size ratio.

What we're looking at here is the paperback to the iPad's hardback, the pocketbook to the iPad's magazine... but what's the "killer app"? Is it an iPod, an iPad, or (heaven forbid) an iPhone? What's the aspect-ratio? Developers? 3... "4G"? Home button?

Looks like there'll be time for much rampant speculation
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post #91 of 121
4/7/12 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

Biased much?

Yes and he is a troll too.
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post #92 of 121
4/7/12 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Google Schmoogle. I don't take Google seriously on any level when it comes to anything. It is a flawed business model. They don't have much experience with putting out Operating Systems and hardware so they'll learn very quickly to get out of that industry and to STAY out.

So what multi billion dollar company are you running?
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post #93 of 121
4/7/12 at 11:57pm
It will be interesting to see what they come up with. They certainly have the server-side infrastructure to support come cool apps.
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post #94 of 121
4/8/12 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

Yes and he is a troll too.

Can one be a pro-Apple troll on a pro-Apple forum?
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #95 of 121
4/8/12 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Can one be a pro-Apple troll on a pro-Apple forum?

If he's not making an attempt at a cogent argument and instead is intentionally trying to roil the seas with personal attacks, insults or wild unsubstantiated claims then yeah I think he could be acting trollish.

melior diabolus quem scies

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post #96 of 121
4/8/12 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Can one be a pro-Apple troll on a pro-Apple forum?

I think it would be fairly difficult to be too pro Apple on an Apple forum. The only people that would get really upset are the people who, for the most part, shouldn't be here in the first place.
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post #97 of 121
4/8/12 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If he's not making an attempt at a cogent argument and instead is intentionally trying to roil the seas with personal attacks, insults or wild unsubstantiated claims then yeah I think he could be acting trollish.

Yes, that's a valid point. I've seen something like that a few times from him, but it's almost always directed outward from the forums, so it falls within our current rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I think it would be fairly difficult to be too pro Apple on an Apple forum. The only people that would get really upset are the people who, for the most part, shouldn't be here in the first place.

Also valid.
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That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #98 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I think it would be fairly difficult to be too pro Apple on an Apple forum. The only people that would get really upset are the people who, for the most part, shouldn't be here in the first place.

Agreed that, for the most part, it's hard to be too pro-Apple on an Apple fan site (is that what AI wants this forum to be??), but not impossible. There's a particularly pro-Apple ][, oops meant too, that has made it to several ignore lists for his wide-cast attention-getting posts that some other pro-Apple members find just too much even for them.

melior diabolus quem scies

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #99 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Agreed that, for the most part, it's hard to be too pro-Apple on an Apple fan site (is that what AI wants this forum to be??), but not impossible. There's a particularly pro-Apple ][, oops meant too, that has made it to several ignore lists for his wide-cast attention-getting posts that some other pro-Apple members find just too much even for them.

I don't think it's the "too pro Apple" part of his/her posts that get him on the ignore lists... but I can also guess that most of the people who have put him/her there are not pro Apple.
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post #100 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Can one be a pro-Apple troll on a pro-Apple forum?

If you're excessively for the topic of a site then it's hard to imagine how one can be an internet troll on that subject since a troll is "someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response."


Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I think it would be fairly difficult to be too pro Apple on an Apple forum. The only people that would get really upset are the people who, for the most part, shouldn't be here in the first place.

Apple][ easily crosses that line of being too pro-Apple. It's not that his pro-Apple it's that never seems to be objective about his reasoning. But that's beside the point, we do see a lot more anti-Apple posters who sign up just to incite the forum members. That's trolling.

edit: Fuck! Gatorguy and I are in agreement again. Note to self, get head examined on Monday.

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post #101 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple][ easily crosses that line of being too pro-Apple. It's not that his pro-Apple it's that never seems to be objective about his reasoning. But that's beside the point, we do see a lot more anti-Apple posters who sign up just to incite the forum members. That's trolling.

How much of that side would we see, though, if there weren't so many anti-Apple trolls.

The too pro Apple irrational comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.
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post #102 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:37am
Here is my take on the whole Android vs Apple vs Microsoft. Based on past history, when there are too many companies going after the same market and they use the same Operating System that eventually there becomes too many players and eventually the better run companies stand out and the others either go out of business or get bought up. This has happened in the Windows world until Dell and HP were the only two american computer makers stand out and now we have Microsoft clones coming out of Japan, China, and Korea that are around (to whatever extent). Now, we have Android repeating Microsoft's business model, but they don't sell their operating system and quite frankly, the direction is not very clear and most of their OEM customers also sell Microsoft products that compete. Well, I think that eventually these companies are either going to get bought up, go out of business or they are going to have to choose which OS they are going to support because the BIGGEST problem many of these companies do is to have too many products on their product list and that just creates a logistics nightmare and a support nightmare and these companies are now looking at Apple as guidance to how to run a company. In addition, NONE of these companies really control as much of their respective ecosystems as much as Apple, and that is a HUGE problem these companies have in order to have a viable solution. Samsung doesn't develop usable applications, they have to rely on third party developers. HP is buying software companies for the top end market, but not the desktop/tablet market. Dell is doing the same thing. The other companies like Acer, Lenovo, ASUS, etc., they just put out hardware. The Windows and Android markets are really just competing over price on hardware, which eventually creates low margins which will take them out of contention. Apple just has to continue making the products people want and reducing or eliminating various technical problems that crop up. None of the companies that compete with Apple have total control over their respective ecosystem and without that total control, they won't be in any better position to compete since they don't have as much control over the OS, development software, hardware design, support, content (apps, video, music, books, etc.) without that full ecosystem, they can't provide a complete solution. Apple knows that their customers would rather pay a little more for an easier to use, higher quality product rather than a ME TOO product that doesn't have the same level of customer service. One can have the best product in the world, but if they can't support very well, people will go elsewhere. I think Android has a MAJOR problem in the support area. Too fragmented, no real control by any of the vendors putting Android products on the market and eventually it will turn off customers. Where will the typical Android customer go, when they aren't satisfied? Apple or Microsoft? I personally think Apple since they have a better ecosystem than Microsoft since Microsoft has already proven with Windows 7 that they aren't making any dent in the Smartphone, Tablet, portable Media player markets and since Apple has been around for a while these top corporations need a company with a clear direction. As of now, there are almost 92% of the Fortune 500 that are either starting to purchase Apple products to replace WIndows, Android or some other brand that is failing, or is in serious evaluation mode.
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post #103 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I think it would be fairly difficult to be too pro Apple on an Apple forum. The only people that would get really upset are the people who, for the most part, shouldn't be here in the first place.

I think the Android fans just want attention, since they don't have anything exciting to look forward to. They have to follow Apple to see what things Android is going to copy. If I were AppleInsider, I wouldn't post articles unless it was Apple related and wouldn't even post Android related articles.
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post #104 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

How much of that side would we see, though, if there weren't so many anti-Apple trolls.

The pro Apple comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.

I pretty much agree with you too Island Hermit, except that I don't think it's impossible to be too pro-Apple on a pro-Apple site.

I also agree that there's a fair number of members attracted to AI for no other reason than to ridicule Apple owners when they see an opening, no efforts made to make a reasoned respectful post. IMHO AI deserves much of the blame for encouraging those comments, but I've discussed that in another thread previously so no need to throw this one off-topic any more than it already has.

melior diabolus quem scies

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post #105 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think the Android fans just want attention, since they don't have anything exciting to look forward to. They have to follow Apple to see what things Android is going to copy. If I were AppleInsider, I wouldn't post articles unless it was Apple related and wouldn't even post Android related articles.

That wouldn't keep the click count up, though.
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post #106 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I pretty much agree with you too Island Hermit, except that I don't think it's impossible to be too pro-Apple on a pro-Apple site.

As I've found out. The super duper fans have called me an Android troll and I've also been lambasted for straying slightly off the Apple party line.
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post #107 of 121
4/8/12 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

The too pro Apple irrational comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.

They bother me. I'm bothered by any comment that puts the irrational before the rational, which include mine. I try to be consciousness of it but it does happen.

Am I as bothered, absolutely not, but that's because they aren't posts that are designed to derail the thread, they are just overzealous posters. In that same vain in a thread about a competing product it's perfectly reasonable if one defends the merits of other products because they think they are good. That should not mean people should call them a troll for defending a product in a thread that mentions them but it also shouldn't mean they should call others fanboys for not liking it.

You can have anecdotal stories and opinions about the pros and cons of all products while still remaining relatively objective*. I've stated that I think WinPh is great, and have been called a MS fanboy or something to that effect on this very forum, but I've also said that it's not great enough to make me switch OSes and ecosystems.

The other pro-Apple comments that bother me, and I think we're all guilty of, is the rumour mill spiraling out of control until we expect "magical" things from a technology company. Every week it's a dozen new rumours that are usually more fantastical than the last but rarely do they make sense. The ones that do make sense get comments such as "Duh!" and "In other news the sun will setting in the West." It's just not fun to dream logically, but that is what we should be doing if we are to accurate determine what will most likely transpire in the future.


* Objective isn't the most accurate term. Rational would probably be better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Here is my take on the whole Android vs Apple vs Microsoft. Based on past history, when there are too many companies going after the same market and they use the same Operating System that eventually there becomes too many players and eventually the better run companies stand out and the others either go out of business or get bought up. This has happened in the Windows world until Dell and HP were the only two american computer makers stand out and now we have Microsoft clones coming out of Japan, China, and Korea that are around (to whatever extent). Now, we have Android repeating Microsoft's business model, but they don't sell their operating system and quite frankly, the direction is not very clear and most of their OEM customers also sell Microsoft products that compete. Well, I think that eventually these companies are either going to get bought up, go out of business or they are going to have to choose which OS they are going to support because the BIGGEST problem many of these companies do is to have too many products on their product list and that just creates a logistics nightmare and a support nightmare and these companies are now looking at Apple as guidance to how to run a company. In addition, NONE of these companies really control as much of their respective ecosystems as much as Apple, and that is a HUGE problem these companies have in order to have a viable solution. Samsung doesn't develop usable applications, they have to rely on third party developers. HP is buying software companies for the top end market, but not the desktop/tablet market. Dell is doing the same thing. The other companies like Acer, Lenovo, ASUS, etc., they just put out hardware. The Windows and Android markets are really just competing over price on hardware, which eventually creates low margins which will take them out of contention. Apple just has to continue making the products people want and reducing or eliminating various technical problems that crop up. None of the companies that compete with Apple have total control over their respective ecosystem and without that total control, they won't be in any better position to compete since they don't have as much control over the OS, development software, hardware design, support, content (apps, video, music, books, etc.) without that full ecosystem, they can't provide a complete solution. Apple knows that their customers would rather pay a little more for an easier to use, higher quality product rather than a ME TOO product that doesn't have the same level of customer service. One can have the best product in the world, but if they can't support very well, people will go elsewhere. I think Android has a MAJOR problem in the support area. Too fragmented, no real control by any of the vendors putting Android products on the market and eventually it will turn off customers. Where will the typical Android customer go, when they aren't satisfied? Apple or Microsoft? I personally think Apple since they have a better ecosystem than Microsoft since Microsoft has already proven with Windows 7 that they aren't making any dent in the Smartphone, Tablet, portable Media player markets and since Apple has been around for a while these top corporations need a company with a clear direction. As of now, there are almost 92% of the Fortune 500 that are either starting to purchase Apple products to replace WIndows, Android or some other brand that is failing, or is in serious evaluation mode.

You might as well have written that in machine code because that's not human readable.

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post #108 of 121
4/8/12 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

...because they aren't posts that are designed to derail the thread, they are just overzealous posters.

... and that is why those type of posts don't bother me so much. Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread does. An Android grenade, imo, does not include a well reasoned argument from an Apple fan who chose an Android product this time around... it does include, though, someone who goes out of their way to make it clear that Apple sucks at every level.
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post #109 of 121
4/8/12 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and that is why those type of posts don't bother me so much. Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread. An Android grenade, imo, does not include a well reasoned argument from an Apple chose an Android product this time around... it does include, though, someone who goes out of their way to make it clear that Apple sucks at every level.

I agree with that if you mean "Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread [in an Apple-centric forum, and by that same token an over-zealous pro-Android user in an Android-centric forum doesn't create a firestorm the way someone would by going to an Android forum and throwing an Apple grenade.]

I think that's what you mean but I want to be crystal clear you are referring to the foundation of the contrarian v. advocator issue, not an Apple v. Android issue. Your comment is focused on AI so it can read as being the latter and not the former.

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post #110 of 121
4/8/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

Biased much?

Look up... further... further.. see the name of this website? Did you expect "neutral" comments? Whatever that may be.

Personally I hate the word "biased" - it's just crap. Everyone has their opinion why not stick to that, and those people who buy (anything) based on brand name alone are complete idiots. I don't think there are too many, particularly not in the world of tech. I think most iDevice users buy their thing not for the logo or for some weird ideal of hipness but because they're well designed products that simply work better than the competition. Maybe they buy them because they consistently have the highest user satisfaction ratings?

So if you call me biased, you're really calling me an idiot. And I don't like name calling. Next time an interesting Android device comes out, you can bet I'll take a good hard look at it (did it with the Note already by the way). I like the direction ICS is taking, design-wise.
It's just not there yet - no manufacturer makes anything like the glass-and-steel iPhone. Samsung in particular - releasing a new flagship model every 3 months does not make me confident in the value of their products. You might disagree but please respect others opinion - don't call them idiots.

Now for something on topic: I cannot for the world of me understand what Google is trying to accomplish with a 7" tablet. It's too small. I played with the original 7" Galaxy tab and the form factor is just stupid - too big for a phone, too small to do anything interesting with it. I'd rather have the 5.4" Note - at least that can be classified as a (huge but still) phone.

Why would people waste $250 on something like that? The Kindle Fire is a totally different thing, it's basically a Kindle with some added on features. 7" is enough for an ebook reader, arguably even better than 9 or 10. And if the ebook reader can also do a bunch of tablet-y stuff, great. But a 7" tablet that's cheap? That will be about as successful as those first cheap 7" netbooks. Namely, it won't last long past the initial wave of curious / geek buyers.
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post #111 of 121
4/8/12 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I agree with that if you mean "Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread [in an Apple-centric forum, and by that same token an over-zealous pro-Android user in an Android-centric forum doesn't create a firestorm the way someone would by going to an Android forum and throwing an Apple grenade.]

I think that's what you mean but I want to be crystal clear you are referring to the foundation of the contrarian v. advocator issue, not an Apple v. Android issue. Your comment is focused on AI so it can read as being the latter and not the former.

contrarian v. advocator

I was trying to clarify by giving an example of my definition of an Android grenade.

(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my iMac. It was cheaper than the Apple monitor and it does the intended job to my satisfaction.)

as opposed to:

(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my Dell. It's way cheaper than any Apple monitor and besides, Apple monitors suck balls!)
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post #112 of 121
4/8/12 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

contrarian v. advocator

Does that work? I scoured a thesaurus looking for what I thought was the most appropriate terminology.

Quote:
I was trying to clarify by giving an example of my definition of an Android grenade.

(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my iMac. It was cheaper than the Apple monitor and it does the intended job to my satisfaction.)

as opposed to:

(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my Dell. It's way cheaper than any Apple monitor and besides, Apple monitors suck balls!)

I figured that's what you meant. Just wanted to be clear so people don't jump on tye nouns in your example instead of the actual meaning.

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post #113 of 121
4/8/12 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Does that work? I scoured a thesaurus looking for what I thought was the most appropriate terminology.

Not sure if it works (just because I don't know)... but I understood what you meant.
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post #114 of 121
4/8/12 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Not sure if it works (just because I don't know)... but I understood what you meant.

I think it comes down to a overly positive or negative lack of objectivity. Neither one helps a rational and thoughtful discussion.

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post #115 of 121
4/8/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You can have anecdotal stories and opinions about the pros and cons of all products while still remaining relatively objective*. I've stated that I think WinPh is great, and have been called a MS fanboy or something to that effect on this very forum, but I've also said that it's not great enough to make me switch OSes and ecosystems.

Oh my gosh and I thought you were this hardcore Apple guy that refused to own anything that didn't have a Apple on the back. Just kidding, I also really like Microsoft's new mobile OS. I think it's slowly becoming my favorite OS but it is still missing a few things to make it perfect. The first being decent apps, MS is in some desperate need of some quality apps. OTA, it took Apple forever to finally release this on their OS so I guess I can be patient but I really do not like updating the phone with Zune.

I don't want to write up a drawn out review of what I think of Mango so I'll some it up; it's extremely fast, simple but elegant, some of the best integration of social networking applications to date, superb e-mail client and a first rate browser. MS Mobile is vastly becoming a decent business phone, I think by the time version 8 is released I might give serious thought of migrating over that is if they can sort out their app shortage problem.
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post #116 of 121
4/8/12 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

The first being decent apps, MS is in some desperate need of some quality apps. OTA, it took Apple forever to finally release this on their OS...

That's not true.
  • June 2007 — iPhone released.
  • October 2007 — Steve Jobs releases open letter to developers announcing iPhone OS SDK.
  • March 2007 — First iPhone OS SDK beta released and App Store announced.
  • July 2008 — iPhone OS 2.0 and App Store go live.
So it's been over 4 years since developers could start writing apps with Apple's SDK.

Quote:
I don't want to write up a drawn out review of what I think of Mango so I'll some it up; it's extremely fast, simple but elegant, some of the best integration of social networking applications to date, superb e-mail client and a first rate browser. MS Mobile is vastly becoming a decent business phone, I think by the time version 8 is released I might give serious thought of migrating over that is if they can sort out their app shortage problem.

It might be too late. It's more important to build well than to build quickly just to be first out of the gate but you also can't be too far behind and mostly follow in the leader's shoes. There has to be something that makes your product desirable to your customers.

With Android the customers are the carriers and HW vendors because they can add analytics, alter it and then lock it down as they see fit. Very few customers buy an Android-based device and say "I can't wait to install a custom ROM and then write drivers for the missing HW components."

MS has a good product in and of itself, but do they have a good enough product for the current and future market? It's not looking that way. It's looking like the Zune fiasco all over again. The Zune was a great product since version 2. It had refinements and features that made the iPod look antiquated but it was too late to make a difference and the focus had shifted to the smartphones. MS seems to be late with each attempt to enter the market.

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post #117 of 121
4/8/12 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's not true.
  • June 2007 iPhone released.
  • October 2007 Steve Jobs releases open letter to developers announcing iPhone OS SDK.
  • March 2007 First iPhone OS SDK beta released and App Store announced.
  • July 2008 iPhone OS 2.0 and App Store go live.
So it's been over 4 years since developers could start writing apps with Apple's SDK.


It might be too late. It's more important to build well than to build quickly just to be first out of the gate but you also can't be too far behind and mostly follow in the leader's shoes. There has to be something that makes your product desirable to your customers.

With Android the customers are the carriers and HW vendors because they can add analytics, alter it and then lock it down as they see fit. Very few customers buy an Android-based device and say "I can't wait to install a custom ROM and then write drivers for the missing HW components."

MS has a good product in and of itself, but do they have a good enough product for the current and future market? It's not looking that way. It's looking like the Zune fiasco all over again. The Zune was a great product since version 2. It had refinements and features that made the iPod look antiquated but it was too late to make a difference and the focus had shifted to the smartphones. MS seems to be late with each attempt to enter the market.

OTA, over the air updates which was just introduced in 2011, it took Apple almost 5 years to come out with it, that's a pretty long time.

I sure hope Microsoft can do it, we need more successful competition not less. Just having two main platforms to choose from just sucks. RIM is pretty much dead so now more then ever we need a good corporate mobile phone and I really think MS is the way to go. Here's hoping they can pull off the impossible.
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post #118 of 121
4/8/12 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If he's not making an attempt at a cogent argument and instead is intentionally trying to roil the seas with personal attacks, insults or wild unsubstantiated claims then yeah I think he could be acting trollish.

^^ This is the point, nothing to do with being pro-Apple, it's about his posting manner.
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post #119 of 121
4/8/12 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

OTA, over the air updates which was just introduced in 2011, it took Apple almost 5 years to come out with it, that's a pretty long time.

I sure hope Microsoft can do it, we need more successful competition not less. Just having two main platforms to choose from just sucks. RIM is pretty much dead so now more then ever we need a good corporate mobile phone and I really think MS is the way to go. Here's hoping they can pull off the impossible.

Mea culpa. Thought were you referring to the SDK and App Store.

Slightly over 4 years* is a long time in tech but consider what has to be done to make it safe and effective.

It's not just making sure the system can hold the image, but making sure that the update can't be hacked so it pushed a malware update to users. This would happen fast enough that it's unlikely Apple could resolve the issue before devices are compromised.

Another issue, and the one that I think Apple has taken for too long to get a handle on, is the size of the updates. You can't have 700MB updates being pushed to a device over an 802.11g network every time you have a tertiary (x.x.1) point update.

Are there benefits to Apple's previous method? Absolutely! It's more secure and has built in redundancy but it means it's slow and clunky in comparison. It's much like iDisk is to Dropbox. IOW, if you lose a connection to an iDisk download you lose the entire file and have to start all over, but with Dropbox you maintain the packages you've already receive, hidden from view until they can be put together.

There are still issues with Apple's OTA update service as of iOS 5.0.1. For instance, if you didn't have enough room on your device in your "user space" the IPSW couldn't load the files that it needed. Or maybe it could expand the files after it downloaded them. Either way, it was an issue that I'd think could be easily resolved by the system first getting the download (or expanded installer) size before it starts. If it's not enough it could then inform you of the issue. As of 5.0.1 it didn't offer any usable error message.

Finally, there is network congestion. I'm sure you haven't thought about this but when Apple issues an iOS update it goes to all their iOS devices at the same time. This means 3 years of iPhone releases, 3 years of iPad Touch releases and soon to be 3 years of iPad releases. Now consider how many of those iOS-based devices Apple has sold since 2009. With other mobile OSes you get 1) stepped OTA updates so that even if you have a device that is updatable you may not get it for more than a month if your device isn't chosen by the powers that be. I knew of no way to contact HTC of MS to get the update for a WinPh device last year when Mango arrived. And that's just one device model!

You can't simply say that since one company did x that Apple should have been able to do x, too, without considering all the factors. Even then you can't say that because Apple could have technically done x that it would have been smart to do x simply because it was technically possible. We've seen this year-after-year as some new Apple-killer comes to market with specs that are technically superior but poorly executed. Bottom line: Having something you check off on a spec sheet doesn't mean shit if it doesn't work.

* If you are going to round then round to the nearest year.

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post #120 of 121
4/8/12 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

Biased much?

Welcome to AI! Meet Apple][. Sometimes he'll make you question your love for Apple!
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