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Tax Freedom Day - Page 2

post #41 of 56
4/9/12 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I don't recall saying it before, but if I did, it's because it is true. It obviously depends on how you measure it, and it's not always easy to compare directly, but according to the Tax Foundation's own stats, (reprinted here on Wikipedia), the US has the lowest tax burden aside from India, a poor country.

The stats in that chart are compiled from a variety of different sources under different criteria, so I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Nonetheless, MJ1970's point is valid: a criminal act committed with less severity does not make it less of a crime. And just because people choose to continue living rather than resist doesn't mean they condone or accept it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #42 of 56
4/9/12 at 5:00pm
Fair enough, but I think it's important to provide some context: You guys think that, of the most successful, stable, and wealthy countries in history, even the one with (one of) the lowest taxes is still a violent criminal enterprise. I'm sorry, but I'm going to characterize that as off the deep end.
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post #43 of 56
4/9/12 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Fair enough, but I think it's important to provide some context: You guys think that, of the most successful, stable, and wealthy countries in history, even the one with (one of) the lowest taxes is still a violent criminal enterprise. I'm sorry, but I'm going to characterize that as off the deep end.

Let's be clear, since you're trying to simplify things a bit much. I'm saying that:

1. All governments, in their essence operate under the same premise which is they have a monopoly in the use of force and violence.

2. All governments collect taxes, ultimately, at the point of a gun.

These are facts.

3. The greatness and stability of the US has actually diminished as it has expanded both 1 and 2.

4. Most countries destabilize as they increase 1 and 2.

5. The violence and criminality of the US has increased over time both domestically and internationally. We have the US government making armed raids of food co-ops and raw milk farmers for goodness sake! The use of violence to enforce its edicts (whether tax collection or other means) is increasing in the US.

These are opinions.

You can say this off the deep end if you like. But look around, look at what the US government is doing.

Let me add the following:

If you want to argue that there some cases where 1 and 2 are necessary and legitimate, fine. But then I would ask if these are truly necessary shouldn't we want to keep them to the absolute minimum and to be used only for the most critical things?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #44 of 56
4/9/12 at 5:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Fair enough, but I think it's important to provide some context: You guys think that, of the most successful, stable, and wealthy countries in history, even the one with (one of) the lowest taxes is still a violent criminal enterprise. I'm sorry, but I'm going to characterize that as off the deep end.

Not much I can add to MJ's reply to this, other than I am not ashamed to be an American - I am ashamed of my government. There is a difference.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #45 of 56
4/9/12 at 5:57pm
I don't disagree with these last two posts. We can say we've reached a stalemate.
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post #46 of 56
4/10/12 at 12:45am
Looks like it took a lot of threats of violence to get the UK 's rich to pay a whopping 10% of their income in taxes. That's half the average rate here-

"George Osborne was left 'shocked' after an analysis of the tax returns of multi-millionaires which he personally ordered found that they are exploiting loopholes to pay little or nothing at all.

A confidential study by HM Revenue and customs found they are using aggressive avoidance schemes to reduce their income tax rate to an average of 10 per cent - less than half the level paid by the average Briton.

Mr Osborne told The Daily Telegraph: I was shocked to see that some of the very wealthiest people in the country have organised their tax affairs, and to be fair its within the tax laws, so that they were regularly paying virtually no income tax. And I dont think thats right.

From next year, the total amount of tax relief that any individual can claim will be limited to 25 percent of their income or £50,000 whichever is greater."
~ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...x-dodgers.html

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #47 of 56
4/10/12 at 4:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The stats in that chart are compiled from a variety of different sources under different criteria, so I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Nonetheless, MJ1970's point is valid: a criminal act committed with less severity does not make it less of a crime. And just because people choose to continue living rather than resist doesn't mean they condone or accept it.

Any type of criminal act would make it a crime.What about what wall Street created with thousands of people being affected and hardly any one arrested would you not consider this a crime?
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post #48 of 56
4/10/12 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"George Osborne was left 'shocked' after an analysis of the tax returns of multi-millionaires which he personally ordered found that they are exploiting loopholes to pay little or nothing at all.

A confidential study by HM Revenue and customs found they are using aggressive avoidance schemes to reduce their income tax rate to an average of 10 per cent - less than half the level paid by the average Briton.

Mr Osborne told The Daily Telegraph: I was shocked to see that some of the very wealthiest people in the country have organised their tax affairs, and to be fair its within the tax laws, so that they were regularly paying virtually no income tax. And I dont think thats right.

What's really shocking is how shocked this guy is. Seriously.

P.S. What exactly does it mean to "exploit a loophole?" The laws and rules are there, then you're surprised when someone uses them?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #49 of 56
4/10/12 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

What's really shocking is how shocked this guy is. Seriously.

P.S. What exactly does it mean to "exploit a loophole?" The laws and rules are there, then you're surprised when someone uses them?

To a degree. He didn't have access to these particular figures previously. I'm sure he knew they'd scam the people, just not to that extent.

Mind you, they make Apple look good. It takes them less than 14 and a half hours to pay off their taxes for the year here on about £6 billion in retail-

"Apple is the latest technology company accused of avoiding U.K. taxes, as the company is said to have paid £10 million in corporation tax last year on estimated sales of £6 billion."
~ http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...in_the_uk.html

What really pisses me off too, is companies like Apple paying so little means the small guy ends up having to pay more. If business drops off like it has for many, they've then got less to tide them over. So they go bust or jobs are lost.

GIVE BACK YOUR BONUSES APPLE TILL YOU'VE PAID YOUR FUCKING TAXES.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #50 of 56
4/10/12 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

To a degree. He didn't have access to these particular figures previously. I'm sure he knew they'd scam the people, just not to that extent.

Who is "scamming" people?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"Apple is the latest technology company accused of avoiding U.K. taxes, as the company is said to have paid £10 million in corporation tax last year on estimated sales of £6 billion."

I love the rhetoric here. We have someone "accused" of "avoiding" taxes. I'm sure they are playing by the rules that exist and doing everything possible to minimize their tax liability. Just like nearly everyone else does. Including you I'll bet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

What really pisses me off too, is companies like Apple paying so little means the small guy ends up having to pay more.

That's one way to think about it. The other way is that everyone has to pay so much because spending is so much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

GIVE BACK YOUR BONUSES APPLE TILL YOU'VE PAID YOUR FUCKING TAXES.



I'm betting they have paid their taxes, just not as much as you think they should.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #51 of 56
5/3/12 at 5:22pm

Look here!

 

Mark Zukerberg worked hard for over 8 years to earn enough to pay enough taxes that will support the federal government for about 2 hours.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #52 of 56
5/4/12 at 4:14am

Go to Cuba or another communist country and then you won't bitch so much against our government.

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post #53 of 56
5/4/12 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Go to Cuba or another communist country and then you won't bitch so much against our government.

 

Yes, marv...let's stop criticizing our government.  Then we can just put the shackles on ourselves instead of having guys with guns do it.  

To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #54 of 56
5/4/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Look here!

 

Mark Zukerberg worked hard for over 8 years to earn enough to pay enough taxes that will support the federal government for about 2 hours.

 

 

What a greedy bastard.  These guys in the 1% are out of touch.  He makes 3,000 times the average FB worker and spends money OVERSEAS.  In fact, I heard that he uses computers made in CHINA instead of the U.S.  It's time for these people to PAY.  

 

</Leftyrant>

To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #55 of 56
5/11/12 at 7:01pm

slavery

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #56 of 56
5/14/12 at 8:29am
Thread Starter 

tumblr_m3v9oxZLUN1qg41ggo1_400.jpg

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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