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German court upholds ban on Apple's iCloud push e-mail services

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Apple will not be able to immediately reactivate push e-mail for iCloud and MobileMe users in Germany, as a local court has upheld a ban on the service in that country.

The Mannheim regional court also determined that Apple must pay damages in the suit with Motorola Mobility, according to Dow Jones Newswires. No amount to be paid, however, was specified by the court.

Motorola first won the court case against Apple's push services in Germany in February The initial decision granted Motorola a permanent injunction against the services included in iCloud and its predecessor, MobileMe.

The lawsuit is related to , entitled "Multiple Pager Status Synchronization System and Method." It is the European equivalent of , which carries the same name.

Motorola originally filed the suit last April, before iCloud was even announced. After Apple unveiled its new suite of free cloud services, Motorola argued in court that MobileMe is "integrated" into iCloud, and it's just a name change for the product.




Apple has attempted to fight the injunction in Germany, but lost repeatedly. Last month, the Karlsruhe Higher Regional Court, which handles appeals for the circuit where the Mannheim Regional Court lies, also sided with Motorola and upheld the ban.

Google acquired Motorola Mobility last August for $12.5 billion, a deal that was made after Motorola filed its push e-mail suit against Apple. Though it now officially owns Motorola, Google has made no effort to stop any of the ongoing patent disputes its subsidiary has with Apple.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 24
How absurd. All email is push, both desktop and wireless email.
post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Google acquired Motorola Mobility last August for $12.5 billion, a deal that was made after Motorola filed its push e-mail suit against Apple. Though it now officially owns Motorola, Google has made no effort to stop any of the ongoing patent disputes its subsidiary has with Apple.

Incorrect. Google does not "now officially own" Motorola. China hasn't yet signed off, and may not for some time (possibly never?), nor has Israel to the best of my knowledge.

One other thing of note before it's claimed: The Motorola patent that Apple infringes on for use with it's push email service is not FRAND-encumbered.
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post #4 of 24
How absurd. All email is push, both desktop and wireless email. And MobileMe has been around for years.
post #5 of 24
Those who can, innovate. Those who cannot, get banned.
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

How absurd. All email is push, both desktop and wireless email.

Your comment sir is what is absurd. No offense intended, but you do not know of what you speak fine sir. You obviously do not understand the difference between PUSH email and PULL. PUSH is realtime whereas says POP3 is a polled mail retrieval system where a desktop or mobile device checks for mail at some user specified interval (and was what all mail used until the advent of PUSH).

Go look at wikipedia before you think about rebutting what I am saying.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

How absurd. All email is push, both desktop and wireless email.

No, it's not.
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

How absurd. All email is push, both desktop and wireless email.

How wrong you are. Not all mail is push. Don't be such a... Never mind....
post #9 of 24
So much for the consumers benefitting from all this innovation. Is Motorola going to roll out a Germany-specific iPhone mail app?

Thought not.

Just like most IP cases, it's the little guy (your average German iPhone owner) who loses out.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

How absurd. All email is push, both desktop and wireless email. And MobileMe has been around for years.

Did you think posting twice would make your ridiculous statement a fact? Not all email is push. In fact, POP3 (which not too long ago was the most common way to retrieve email, and is still WIDELY used today) is more of a "pull" service, where the client you're using (iPhone, Outlook, Apple Mail, whatever) polls the email server at specified intervals to check for any new email, then downloads a copy to said client. So all email is NOT, in fact, push email, as you claim.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

So much for the consumers benefitting from all this innovation. Is Motorola going to roll out a Germany-specific iPhone mail app?

Thought not.

Just like most IP cases, it's the little guy (your average German iPhone owner) who loses out.

Not all german iPhone owners. Only those who use @me.com email addresses. Their @me.com email still work but will pull instead of getting push emails.
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

Your comment sir is what is absurd. No offense intended, but you do not know of what you speak fine sir. You obviously do not understand the difference between PUSH email and PULL. PUSH is realtime whereas says POP3 is a polled mail retrieval system where a desktop or mobile device checks for mail at some user specified interval (and was what all mail used until the advent of PUSH).

Go look at wikipedia before you think about rebutting what I am saying.

Electronic mail has been around for a very long time. I'm not sure I'd even agree that pull came before push. In the early days of SMTP, there were no always-on client email programs. You sat down to your computer, opened your email app, and then directly accessed your mailbox. No POP involved.

I'm not saying you're wrong about email, but I wish you'd been a little hesitant in throwing your insults about.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Did you think posting twice would make your ridiculous statement a fact? Not all email is push. In fact, POP3 (which not too long ago was the most common way to retrieve email, and is still WIDELY used today) is more of a "pull" service, where the client you're using (iPhone, Outlook, Apple Mail, whatever) polls the email server at specified intervals to check for any new email, then downloads a copy to said client. So all email is NOT, in fact, push email, as you claim.

No, not all email is push. But "push" email has been around for a very long time. Hard to imagine that Motorola can patent something that old.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

No, not all email is push. But "push" email has been around for a very long time. Hard to imagine that Motorola can patent something that old.

Could one argue that the USPS uses a "push" system? Just seems that many patents got issue for things that existed previously just because they were now done electronically. Kind of the like the "Buy it Now" patent a few years back that was no different than you putting a car out front with a price + best offer on the for sale sign.

Tom
post #15 of 24
Must suck to live in Germany; it's even more patent litigation friendly than East Texas.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
It is the European equivalent of , which carries the same name.

I think you , a word.

As for the case, this is going to make Germany a bit of a laughingstock. Any company can have push e-mail anywhere in the world....except Germany.

Here's a question: What happens when a non-German iCloud user visits Germany? Does their push e-mail stop functioning? If not, could this be a workaround for German buyers of iPhones; get set up with a foreign iCloud server? But what if it does mean iPhone-owning visitors to Germany lose e-mail functionality? I think the German tourism board will be just überglücklich to hear about this...
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

No, not all email is push. But "push" email has been around for a very long time. Hard to imagine that Motorola can patent something that old.

Motorola has been around a long time. They have the patent for the portable phone, so it is easily feasible that they'd have a push email patent.
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post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

I think you , a word.

As for the case, this is going to make Germany a bit of a laughingstock. Any company can have push e-mail anywhere in the world....except Germany.

Here's a question: What happens when a non-German iCloud user visits Germany? Does their push e-mail stop functioning? If not, could this be a workaround for German buyers of iPhones; get set up with a foreign iCloud server? But what if it does mean iPhone-owning visitors to Germany lose e-mail functionality? I think the German tourism board will be just überglücklich to hear about this...

One loses the push email functionality but the iPhone can be easily set to poll the servers at specific time intervals. Its really not that serious.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #19 of 24
Vee do zee pushing!
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post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

I think you , a word.

As for the case, this is going to make Germany a bit of a laughingstock. Any company can have push e-mail anywhere in the world....except Germany.

Here's a question: What happens when a non-German iCloud user visits Germany? Does their push e-mail stop functioning? If not, could this be a workaround for German buyers of iPhones; get set up with a foreign iCloud server? But what if it does mean iPhone-owning visitors to Germany lose e-mail functionality? I think the German tourism board will be just überglücklich to hear about this...

Apple could pay a license for this patent.
Germany is not at fault...
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Incorrect. Google does not "now officially own" Motorola. China hasn't yet signed off, and may not for some time (possibly never?), nor has Israel to the best of my knowledge.

One other thing of note before it's claimed: The Motorola patent that Apple infringes on for use with it's push email service is not FRAND-encumbered.


As soon as I finished reading the article, I was going to comment on the fact that in no way does Google yet own Motorola Mobility -- thanks for getting there first With respect to Israel, MMI indicates on its web site that it filed a 10K on 17 Feb re: having received clearance from Israel.

This is not the first time that I've noticed an AI writer erroneously asserting that Google has completed the acquisition. They may wish to bookmark http://investors.motorola.com/google-acquisition.cfm and do some fact-checking before they post.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmhisey View Post

As soon as I finished reading the article, I was going to comment on the fact that in no way does Google yet own Motorola Mobility -- thanks for getting there first With respect to Israel, MMI indicates on its web site that it filed a 10K on 17 Feb re: having received clearance from Israel.

This is not the first time that I've noticed an AI writer erroneously asserting that Google has completed the acquisition. They may wish to bookmark http://investors.motorola.com/google-acquisition.cfm and do some fact-checking before they post.

Thanks for the mention about Israel. I hadn't seen that yet.

As for AI writing the acquisition was complete they know the truth, but it wouldn't make as good a story if they didn't claim Google was attacking Apple directly. Circle the wagons and all that.
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post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Those who can, innovate. Those who cannot, get banned.

I'm sorry I don't understand your statement, would you be so kind in explaining with a little more detail.
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post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

One loses the push email functionality but the iPhone can be easily set to poll the servers at specific time intervals. Its really not that serious.

That's what I was thinking. I really don't see the appeal to MobileMe anyway, don't most internet providers also provide email services. I would much rather use a local email service or even create my own. I've had the same email address for the last 12 years from a server and domain that I control, cost's me 15 CHF for the domain and 30 for the server rental a year. I even have 500 GB of storage for only a extra 20 CHF and the server is located only 10 miles away so I get like 5,000 MBS up and 30,000 MBS down, numbers that iCloud could never give me.

Not saying there is anything wrong with MobileMe but your provider already delivers these services, why use Apples?
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