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Apple rumored to launch with 6M of sub-$300 'iPad mini' this year - Page 2

post #41 of 130
4/16/12 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

There is no pair of pants in the world that can properly be called "dress pants," that has a back pocket big enough for a kindle.

That was my first thought. My second though was that it was a dress, made into pants with extra fabric used to make an uncomfortable 190 mm (7.5 in) x 120 mm (4.7 in) pocket to envelope a Kindle Fire.

"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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post #42 of 130
4/16/12 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Why is everyone always so negative.

I think this will happen and it will be the star of the show at this years iPod media event.

All the new autos are trying to adopt iPad. It could replace radio, GPS and other gadgets in every new car in few years!
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post #43 of 130
4/16/12 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

Seems to me that the key is having a device that you can easily pocket ...

Not to pick on your eminently reasonable post but everyone keeps talking about "pocket ability" without remembering the obvious which is that we all have vastly different sized pockets.

North Americans generally have small pockets and an exaggerated idea of what kind of gear is "too much to carry" whereas some people from other countries may have voluminous pockets in their capes, burkas etc. and be totally okay with packing around twice as much gear as someone from California might be.

Even if we stick to North America, richer men wear blazers and suit coats that can easily "pocket" a small tablet, but working class guys might not ever have a piece of clothing with that kind of pocket room. Women will consider anything they can throw in their purse or a similar sized bag to their purse to be perfectly okay, whereas a guy that's not used to carrying a bag might balk at the iPad because he will have to either carry it around or buy a bag for it.

For these and many other reasons I find the whole "pocketable" argument to be ridiculous given that there is never going to be a clear definition of exactly what size that is.

People will carry with them whatever they think it is that they need and if they aren't carrying your device around it's because the pain of carrying it around, overcame the percieved need the consumer had for it.

At this point the technology is on the bleeding edge. It's far easier to increase the desirability of the product (need) than it is to decrease the weight, or the size of it. I would think Apple will go that way and just keep making the iPad so indispensable that it doesn't matter what size it is. People will have to have it and they will make all the associated sacrifices on their own.
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post #44 of 130
4/16/12 at 7:50am
I remember when Apple introduced the Shuffle (flash based). At the time they had zero market share in this segment. By the following Friday they 80%...

I think they will introduce a 7", if nothing else, but stop other companies getting any sort of traction in the tablet market.... I own an iPhone 4s...and I will buy one!
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post #45 of 130
4/16/12 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yeah, $3 B a year isn't worth pursuing.
10 M of these tablets at $300 is $3 B - not counting any other benefits.

Yeah, some or a lot of that $3B will not come from iPad sales...

/reverence.
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post #46 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:00am
I don't understand the incredulity or the hostility to this rumor. All of the negative responses to the form-factor are reasonable IF the device is designed simply as a mini-iPad. But I don't believe that will be its intent.
A friend gave my wife a Kindle for Christmas. Unlike me, she's an ordinary" person (only with respect to technology, of course), but (like me) is also a confirmed Apple user. She loves the Kindle for its intended purpose. For before-sleep reading it's lighter, she says, than a paperback, and when she's traveling she can bring multiple books along in her purse, all, of course, on the Kindle.
Apple wants people to buy their books through their e-book site, not Amazon's. While a mini iPad may be used the same way its big brother is, that's not it's intent. If introduced, it will be marketed as a Kindle/Nook killer. All else is secondary.
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post #47 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


For these and many other reasons I find the whole "pocketable" argument to be ridiculous given that there is never going to be a clear definition of exactly what size that is.



Anything even a little bit bigger than the iPhone 4/4S is too big to fit comfortably in a pocket. That much has already been decided upon.
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post #48 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


For these and many other reasons I find the whole "pocketable" argument to be ridiculous given that there is never going to be a clear definition of exactly what size that is.



Anything even a little bit bigger than the iPhone 4/4S is too big to fit comfortably in a pocket. That much has already been decided upon. Apple picked the one and only perfect size, and that is why the iPhone has such a "tiny" screen.
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post #49 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:18am
I would love to have the option to buy a 7" iPod touch. Part of the reason why Apple dominated the PMP market was that they had every price point covered. Right now Samsung is working very hard to cover every tablet pricepoint/size category. Apple needs to make a move in the 5-7" tablet space. The touch would be the way to go. Keep the iPad brand premium with the current screen size.
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post #50 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

Exactly:


2) Should have phone capabilities (why all iPads don't have that is beyond me).


As far as I'm concerned, it could cost a lot more as long as it's pocket size.

Skype allows the iPad to funtion as a phone and has almost from day one. Now if by phone capabilities it should be a "cell phone " that is just silly.
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post #51 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Anything even a little bit bigger than the iPhone 4/4S is too big to fit comfortably in a pocket. That much has already been decided upon. Apple picked the one and only perfect size, and that is why the iPhone has such a "tiny" screen.

Wait, who decided, ah Apple so it must be written in stone. I can't wait for Apple to come out with a larger screened iPhone just to hear that you bought it and state it's the perfect size.
I've seen things you little people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion bright as magnesium. I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the...
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I've seen things you little people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion bright as magnesium. I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the...
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post #52 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Wait, who decided, ah Apple so it must be written in stone. I can't wait for Apple to come out with a larger screened iPhone just to hear that you bought it and state it's the perfect size.

Look, don't reply to him if you want to hold a serious conversation, ma'am. He's not worth your time.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #53 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Look, don't reply to him if you want to hold a serious conversation, ma'am. He's not worth your time.

Oh is that it, I thought I was going crazy or something.
I've seen things you little people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion bright as magnesium. I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the...
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post #54 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:40am
If Apple came out with a 7" device, I would use that more often than the 10" version. I don't always need a larger screen and when using most of the social media apps (twitter/Facebook, etc.) you don't really need the larger screen size.

When I'm at home, the 10" iPad is great and saves me from powering on my laptop all the time. But for walking around the city and having to carry something, I prefer the smaller size. Most of the people I hang around with in North America, specially during the warmer weather, wear cargo pants or shorts that have the bigger pockets. Right now I have a Blackberry Playbook that I carry around only because of the smaller size and it fits in my pocket.

Found that when I took my iPad with me, I always had to carry some kind of bag/backpack as well or else, when walking around, I would have to carry the iPad in my hand. So many times I've gone to a store and when paying for something, I'd have to put the iPad on the counter so that I could pay, then start walking away without picking up the iPad (then rushing back to pick it up again). With the Playbook, fits in my cargo shorts pocket and have never had to worry about forgetting it. And the only reason I use the Playbook is because of the size (since there aren't a whole lot of apps for it yet). But luckily, the apps I use have Playbook versions.

Also, like the article says, apps created for the original iPad and for the iPad 2, would not need to be rewritten. The apps would fit the screen size, although shrunk down, so developers wouldn't have to make any changes to their programs.
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post #55 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

Skype allows the iPad to funtion as a phone and has almost from day one. Now if by phone capabilities it should be a "cell phone " that is just silly.

Well I don't know my Samsung 7'7" has phone capabilities and I use it in conjuction with a bluetooth handsfree or speakerphone. Quite useful even even if it's not used all the time. Once you add celluar tech it's very simple to make it into a phone. There is a project now that makes the iPad 3G/4G into a phone as long as it's Jail Broken.
I've seen things you little people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion bright as magnesium. I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the...
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I've seen things you little people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion bright as magnesium. I rode on the back decks of a blinker and watched c-beams glitter in the...
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post #56 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Look, don't reply to him if you want to hold a serious conversation, ma'am. He's not worth your time.

I've said nothing that has not previously been said here at least 100 times.

1. A UI designed for a 10 inch tablet will not work well on a 7 inch tablet.

2. A larger iPhone would not fit comfortably into a pocket.

Either refute the standard wisdom, or don't.
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post #57 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Not to pick on your eminently reasonable post but everyone keeps talking about "pocket ability" without remembering the obvious which is that we all have vastly different sized pockets.

North Americans generally have small pockets and an exaggerated idea of what kind of gear is "too much to carry" whereas some people from other countries may have voluminous pockets in their capes, burkas etc. and be totally okay with packing around twice as much gear as someone from California might be.

Even if we stick to North America, richer men wear blazers and suit coats that can easily "pocket" a small tablet, but working class guys might not ever have a piece of clothing with that kind of pocket room. Women will consider anything they can throw in their purse or a similar sized bag to their purse to be perfectly okay, whereas a guy that's not used to carrying a bag might balk at the iPad because he will have to either carry it around or buy a bag for it.

For these and many other reasons I find the whole "pocketable" argument to be ridiculous given that there is never going to be a clear definition of exactly what size that is.

People will carry with them whatever they think it is that they need and if they aren't carrying your device around it's because the pain of carrying it around, overcame the percieved need the consumer had for it.

At this point the technology is on the bleeding edge. It's far easier to increase the desirability of the product (need) than it is to decrease the weight, or the size of it. I would think Apple will go that way and just keep making the iPad so indispensable that it doesn't matter what size it is. People will have to have it and they will make all the associated sacrifices on their own.

It's simple. You make a device that is pocketable by the vast majority of customers in the most significant markets and go from there. It hardly matters that in sort parts of the world a Touch with a 7-inch screen would be pocketable because I doubt Apple is going to make different Touch models for different markets. As such, for this to work you'd need a device that would meet the standard of fitting in the smallest of adult pockets (I'm sure a two-year-old's pockets would have a hard time accommodating the current Touch) and hence qualify as a pocketable device in any of the markets Apple sells in. After all if it fits in a smaller pocket it fits in a larger one.

To me the sweet spot would likely be something like a device with a screen just shy of 5 inches. Of course if you bring out such a version of the Touch, it does mean no iPad Mini because there would just be too much overlap in terms of price. That doesn't seem to me to make sense. If you have a $250 Touch and a $399 iPad, that would cover it. No need for something in between considering Touch comes in various grades.

If Apple fragmented tablets into a whole range of screen sizes it would probably do little to boost sales and I just don't see that happening. As such a device that is pocketable by the standards of the vast majority of potential customers is likely what we'll see. I think there is room for such a device to be larger than the current Touch.
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post #58 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:51am
So will people seriously not purchase a device if it isn't small enough to fit in their pants/jacket pocket? When would people stick a 7" or 8" device in their pants pocket anyway? What pants pocket is wide enough to fit a device like the Kindle Fire? I could see maybe a jacket pocket but I can't see that as being a big enough reason for Apple to make a smaller device. I think price and ecosystem/software will drive sales more than anything. My guess is Kindle Fires sell because of the $199 price point and access to the Amazon ecosystem.
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post #59 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What pants pocket is wide enough to fit a device like the Kindle Fire?

Clown pants.
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post #60 of 130
4/16/12 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Either refute the standard wisdom, or don't.

Either stop abusing Poe's Law like it's as necessary as breathing or

actually that's probably the only valid option.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #61 of 130
4/16/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Either stop abusing Poe's Law like it's as necessary as breathing or

actually that's probably the only valid option.

I'm sorry if any sufficiently advanced parody is indistinguishable from a genuine kook. But that says a lot more about the general consensus here than anything else.

My intent is to make people think. By expressing the conventional wisdom at appropriate times, I illustrate just how wrong the conventional wisdom sometimes is.

Often I repeat the words of Steve. More often, I repeat the words of other posters here who are taken seriously in the original context of "Apple would never do that because..."

But most often, I post sincere remarks.

I find parody to be an excellent means of communicating complex points in an economical manner. And i believe that it makes many non-kooks smile. The fact that the kooks get massive cognitive dissonance is not my fault.
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post #62 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:04am
Sigh

Isn't it glaringly obvious that the next run up for small tablets is underway? With regard to physical size the needs are as varied as the people using the product.

I probably "would" read more on my iPad but 9.7" is the limit to what I can somewhat comfortably hold. Smaller and lighter would be beneficial.

More importantly is the content. Online stores are only beneficial if you have millions of people accessing content. As it was yesterday and still remains today ...the numbers are the big deal here and the iPad is in a race against Win8 and Android to gain the critical mass of users.

Don't discount smaller tablets.

To reach the price point/margins necessary I see.

1. Non Retina display
2. Highly integrated parts (6 or 9-Axis IMU) integrated Wifi/Bluetooth
3. Same A5 as an Apple TV
4. Same 3rd gen camera system

I'd buy one.
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post #63 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


Don't discount smaller tablets.

.



The UI needs to be changed drastically for a smaller tablet. Unless that is done, the UX will suffer.
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post #64 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

I don't see this happening.

$100 bucks says this is called the new iBook...
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post #65 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:18am
The only reason I am skeptical is that Apple is not one to play "catchup" with other companies and products. They are often innovators and redesigners, not "everyone else is doing it so we should too" types of people. It would be nice to see a smaller version but they may make it totally different than the current iPad so it stands out and is different.
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post #66 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

The UI needs to be changed drastically for a smaller tablet. Unless that is done, the UX will suffer.

Nein

The spacing on the current iPad as far as app icons and other user elements is fairly large especially when compared to an iPhone/iPod Touch.

Apple recommends tap targets be no less than 44x44 pixels I believe and a 7.85 tablet should be able to accommodate that just fine.

No drastic changes are required which is why all recent rumors point to the 7.85 size.
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post #67 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:22am
Personally, I don't see a need for one but I'll definitely buy one or two for the kids if it's in the $250~300 range this Xmas.

I've tried the Kindle Fire and other 7~8" tabs and I think this size has its uses. I have the older Kindle and prefer reading on that over the iPad 2. It has its own form factor and I don't think it's something Apple could ignore. I wouldn't use it to write long emails on it but I don't do that with the iPad either.

I think it'd be great for the kids and anyone else to just consume media and play games. Apple would need to work something out with the iPod touch so it doesn't overlap with this device but I don't see why it can't be done. I don't think a slight overlap would hurt either; they'd be two different kinds of devices with different form factors.

What I find weird and almost unusable is the "phablet" devices like the Samsung Note. I've seen people (in Korea, of course!) use it as a phone and it looks pretty goofy. That 5" size seems like the one to avoid.
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post #68 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

$100 bucks says this is called the new iBook...

There's absolutely nothing 'book' about it. Easy money for anyone who wants to bet against you.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #69 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post

The only reason I am skeptical is that Apple is not one to play "catchup" with other companies and products. They are often innovators and redesigners, not "everyone else is doing it so we should too" types of people. It would be nice to see a smaller version but they may make it totally different than the current iPad so it stands out and is different.

But that would be making it different for "different's sake" .


The iPad is enjoying success from many areas of "The Halo" I've chatted with people who's first foray into Apple products was the iPhone and they loved that the iPad was just like their phone and they could get up and running quicker.

Apple has always maintained a good level of consistency across their product line and those who are also Mac users will enjoy even more of this consistency with Mountain Lion is delivered.
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post #70 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggernaut30 View Post

I would love to have the option to buy a 7" iPod touch. Part of the reason why Apple dominated the PMP market was that they had every price point covered. Right now Samsung is working very hard to cover every tablet pricepoint/size category. Apple needs to make a move in the 5-7" tablet space. The touch would be the way to go. Keep the iPad brand premium with the current screen size.

How's that going for Samsung? The iPad is the dominant tablet device out there and they dont need 7" and 8.9" form factors. When the new, new iPad is released next year, the ipad 2 will be $300 and the "new iPad" will be $400. Wins all around.
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post #71 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokiju View Post

I carry my Kindle Fire in my back pocket of my Dockers dress pants all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

There is no pair of pants in the world that can properly be called "dress pants," that has a back pocket big enough for a kindle.

Kind of like Woody on the old Cheers TV show talking about the fancy and exclusive gourmet restaurant he took his girlfriend Kelly to... "We picked up our trays and..."
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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

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post #72 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:28am
To the doubters all I can is: Apple "If you build it, they will come"
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post #73 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

The UI needs to be changed drastically for a smaller tablet. Unless that is done, the UX will suffer.

Let's see. Apple uses the same UI on a 3.5" iPhone that they use on a 10" iPad. So from that fact, zzz concludes that they need a drastically different UI on a 7" device.

Amazing.
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post #74 of 130
4/16/12 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

$100 bucks says this is called the new iBook...

Naah. Call it the mini pad and call the big one a maxipad!
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post #75 of 130
4/16/12 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Let's see. Apple uses the same UI on a 3.5" iPhone that they use on a 10" iPad. So from that fact, zzz concludes that they need a drastically different UI on a 7" device.

Amazing.

Well the resolutions are different.

Some may say take the ipod touch interface and scale up, not the ipad and scale down. (think ipod resolution but at 5, 6 or 5 inches, or perhaps iphone retina at 5, 6 or 7)
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post #76 of 130
4/16/12 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Well the resolutions are different.

Some may say take the ipod touch interface and scale up, not the ipad and scale down. (think ipod resolution but at 5, 6 or 5 inches, or perhaps iphone retina at 5, 6 or 7)

Nay

iPhone/iPod touch Mobile Safari still doesn't support tabs.
iPhone/iPod Mail doesn't support a sidebar or pop-overs
iPhone/iPod gestures are limited in comparison

It's a poor idea to take a limited UI gesturally and from a UX standard and attempt to blow it up to match an iPad.
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post #77 of 130
4/16/12 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Let's see. Apple uses the same UI on a 3.5" iPhone that they use on a 10" iPad. So from that fact, zzz concludes that they need a drastically different UI on a 7" device.

Amazing.

A 7 inch screen is not big enough to make great tablet apps. There is a limit as to how close you can space elements for usability. That is why a 10 inch tablet is the minimum size for great tablet apps.

Apple didn't start out making 7 inch tablets because it is too small to express tablet software. Apple is a software-first company. Developers won't deal really well with a small screen when they can't put enough elements on the screen to build the apps they want to build.
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post #78 of 130
4/16/12 at 1:23pm
"The height of such a device would be roughly the same width as the current iPad."
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post #79 of 130
4/16/12 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

A 7 inch screen is not big enough to make great tablet apps. There is a limit as to how close you can space elements for usability. That is why a 10 inch tablet is the minimum size for great tablet apps.

Apple didn't start out making 7 inch tablets because it is too small to express tablet software. Apple is a software-first company. Developers won't deal really well with a small screen when they can't put enough elements on the screen to build the apps they want to build.

In Walter Isaacson's book Jony Ive said he and Steve played with multiple sizes/aspect ratios until the settled on the current size. They didn't just pull this size out of a hat. I see Apple doing something where they think they can make a product/experience better. I don't see them doing something just because the competition is doing it. And I have yet to see any compelling data that Apple is being hurt, is losing existing customers, not gaining new customers because they haven't released a 7" tablet to compete with [insert name here].

I'd first like to know how well the iPad 2 sold at a reduced price. If they iPad 2 sold well at a reduced price is there really a reason to build a smaller device, especially when most likely the next gen iPod Touch and/or iPhone will have a bigger screen?
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post #80 of 130
4/16/12 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

In Walter Isaacson's book Jony Ive said he and Steve played with multiple sizes/aspect ratios until the settled on the current size. They didn't just pull this size out of a hat. I see Apple doing something where they think they can make a product/experience better. I don't see them doing something just because the competition is doing it. And I have yet to see any compelling data that Apple is being hurt, is losing existing customers, not gaining new customers because they haven't released a 7" tablet to compete with [insert name here].

I'd first like to know how well the iPad 2 sold at a reduced price. If they iPad 2 sold well at a reduced price is there really a reason to build a smaller device, especially when most likely the next gen iPod Touch and/or iPhone will have a bigger screen?

Keep in mind that Zizzy is not making an argument; he is 'quoting' what other may have said in the past, without proper attribution. He finds this quite amusing as he awaits, breathlessly, the arrival of the mighty Windows 8 onslaught this fall. Or that of Android 6, in the same timeframe. He doesn't like Apple because they refuse to do things properly, as established by William Gates III for example, and they stole their "Mac GUI" ideas from everyone else.

Cheers
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