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Apple rumored to launch with 6M of sub-$300 'iPad mini' this year - Page 3

post #81 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

Keep in mind that Zizzy is not making an argument; he is 'quoting' what other may have said in the past, without proper attribution.

Are you saying that the stuff I wrote is incorrect? Are the viewpoints invalid?
post #82 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

The UI needs to be changed drastically for a smaller tablet. Unless that is done, the UX will suffer.

Stop saying that it's very annoying, iOS was designed to work on a screen that is 3.5", nothing needs to be changed especially if the resolution is 1024 x 768. Where do you come up with this stuff.
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post #83 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Stop saying that it's very annoying, iOS was designed to work on a screen that is 3.5", nothing needs to be changed especially if the resolution is 1024 x 768. Where do you come up with this stuff.

So despite the the 3.5" 4:3 iPhone/Touch UI being completely redesigned to be ideal for the 9.7" 4:3 display you think nothing needed to be changed? Good one¡

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post #84 of 129
Anyone see an irony that there's this clamor for Apple to make the iPhone bigger and the iPad smaller?

I can see them doing one, but both?
post #85 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

To the doubters all I can is: Apple "If you build it, they will come"

Right, my point exactly, all the nay sayers will be the first ones in line to buy one just wait and see. Sure you can so no, no, that just isn't so till your brain implodes but the fact of the matter is it will be a cheaper and a lot more portable to carry arround. Sorry but my purse isn't big enough for a normal sized iPad, especially now that it's thicker and heavier. A 7.8" will be a welcomed addition and not only that but it will introduce people to the iPad who couldn't normally afford to purchase the normal one. Price is a big motivator, for me however it's the size, I use my Samsung 7.7" way more often then my iPad because it's very easy and comfortable to take with me while on the go.
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post #86 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post

Anyone see an irony that there's this clamor for Apple to make the iPhone bigger and the iPad smaller?

I can see them doing one, but both?

I see neither.

Remember when analysts were CERTAIN that Apple would release the iPhone nano.

The iPhone, you see, is too big. There has to be a smaller model. And no data. And no apps, either. 2.5" screen. It's what everyone wants!

Just like the iPad is too big. There has to be a smaller model. 7" screen, you see. That's what everyone really wants.
post #87 of 129
Smaller phones make little sense and to a certain extent so do larger phones.

At this point there's a significant investment in docking accessories that would be in danger if the form factor changed significantly.

In a couple of years Airplay hopefully will be the ideal solution for linking devices with audio and video systems and docking will become an afterthought.

As for the iPad. The current model went in the wrong direction. Heavier was not the way to go. I understand why but a sub 1lb iPad would be desirous by many.
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post #88 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

As for the iPad. The current model went in the wrong direction. Heavier was not the way to go.

What would you have dropped to prevent that?

Battery life? LTE? The retina display? The processor?
post #89 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What would you have dropped to prevent that?

Battery life? LTE? The retina display? The processor?


The new iPad has immense battery density. 42 mAh is incredible. But lets look at why

A5X processor:

fabbed at 45nm
HUGE GPU

Baseband chips

fabbed at 45nm (nextgen will be 28nm)

Retina Display :

Requires dual light bars.

-----------------


Apple should be able to cut that battery in half and still power a smaller tablet for 10 hours.
They may be able to use AMOLED or IGZO displays for more efficient power draw.

The A5 processor in the Apple TV and iPad 2 is 32nm and smaller (higher yield = lower cost)


By Q3 this year volume production of smaller more efficient parts should enable not only Apple but every other tablet maker the ability to deliver smaller tablets that are more batter efficient than their predecessors .

Battery density will be the key for reducing weight and Apple appears to be in great shape to shrink the battery yet keep the power up.
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post #90 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So despite the the 3.5" 4:3 iPhone/Touch UI being completely redesigned to be ideal for the 9.7" 4:3 display you think nothing needed to be changed? Good one¡

Nope, nothing needs to be changed now, sure maybe when they first went from iPhone to iPad their was some small tweaks but now, no way, Roles Eyes. The iPad 2 is 1024 x 768 so the same resolution can be easly used for the 7.8". Heck they could easly use a 16.9 resolution if Apple wanted to, Apple TV, 1080p. It's just a shell that runs on top of iOS.

Just like my Galaxy Note when connected via HDMI, the phone stays at 1280 x 800 but it's displayed as 1920 x 1080 on my Samsung Flatscreen. Same as my iPad when connected to Apple TV, it's displayed at the same resolution as th TV. iOS is like any other modern OS, it can display pretty much any resolution without major UI overhaul or whatever your talking about. I swear do you really think that iOS is that fragile that whenever Apple decides to change resolution or aspect ratio it would mean a complete rewrite of the UI. That would mean iOS is the worst OS ever designed. Rolls eyes so much Relic's eyes pop out of head.
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post #91 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I swear do you really think that iOS is that fragile that whenever Apple decides to change resolution or aspect ratio it would mean a complete rewrite of the UI. That would mean iOS is the worst OS ever designed. Rolls eyes so much Relic's eyes pop out of head.


A seven inch screen is too small to properly address a great tablet app.
post #92 of 129
A ten inch screen is too small to properly address a great tablet app.
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post #93 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

A 7 inch screen is not big enough to make great tablet apps. There is a limit as to how close you can space elements for usability. That is why a 10 inch tablet is the minimum size for great tablet apps.

Apple didn't start out making 7 inch tablets because it is too small to express tablet software. Apple is a software-first company. Developers won't deal really well with a small screen when they can't put enough elements on the screen to build the apps they want to build.

Sigh.......

1. How many thousands of apps are there for the 3.5" iPod/iPhone? - I've never heard anyone complain about them.

2. It's a different product. If you want great tablet apps you would still buy the iPad. The 7" would appeal to a different market - people who want a lighter more portable device. As such it would be perfectly fine for 99% of apps - eBooks, games, PDA stuff, etc.

3. Apple have said repeatedly over the past few years that they are a HARDWARE company. The software is just there to make the hardware look good. Steve and Tim have said this over and over.
post #94 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Unless the UI is completely revamped, it will have to ship with sandpaper so that users can convert their fingertips into bloody little nubs.

The current iPad 2 UI was designed for a 10 inch tablet. It will NOT WORK WELL on a 7 inch tablet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

I've said nothing that has not previously been said here at least 100 times.

1. A UI designed for a 10 inch tablet will not work well on a 7 inch tablet.

2. A larger iPhone would not fit comfortably into a pocket.

Either refute the standard wisdom, or don't.

The Icons on the iPad are actually spaced at a much greater distance than The iPhone. I think it wastes space. I bet they have always planned this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I see neither.

Remember when analysts were CERTAIN that Apple would release the iPhone nano.

The iPhone, you see, is too big. There has to be a smaller model. And no data. And no apps, either. 2.5" screen. It's what everyone wants!

Just like the iPad is too big. There has to be a smaller model. 7" screen, you see. That's what everyone really wants.

Very few analyst predicted that. Making the iPhone smaller was impossible given battery issues, this isn't. You are a conservative following a radical company. I don't get that. Apple are not finished with form factors, in 2015 it won't be 3.5 " phones and. 10" tablets.
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post #95 of 129
I'll get one if the memory is at least 32 Gb and it has the latest A5 chip. If it can do everything the current iPad does minus the retina display it will work well for me.
post #96 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

A ten inch screen is too small to properly address a great tablet app.

Not in Steve's opinion.

"we don’t think you can make a great tablet with a seven-inch screen. We think it’s too small to express the software that people want to put on these things. And we think, as a software-driven company, we think about the software strategies first. "
post #97 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post


3. Apple have said repeatedly over the past few years that they are a HARDWARE company. The software is just there to make the hardware look good. Steve and Tim have said this over and over.

QFT

Apple's goal is to put more shiny devices in someones home. Once that's realized then talk about new product is easier to understand.
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post #98 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

A seven inch screen is too small to properly address a great tablet app.

It would be the same resolution as the ipad 2 or maybe even more to make it Retina, how would that decrease the ability to view a "great tablet app". Because it's smaller, are you having problems viewing apps on a 3.5" inch screen now. I own a tablet that is 7.7" with a resolution of 1280 x 800 with 200 dpi, it's very easy to read, whatever app is on the screen. My Samung Note which is 5.3" is very readable at the same resolution. I don't understand where your getting your info from and I really think your just guessing here.

Unless of course you have really bad eyesite then perhaps you shouldn't chime in as this format wasn't met for you. Listen I'm happy that the normal iPad meets all of your needs but some of us travel a whole lot or even commute to work and a smaller, lighter tablet is a welcomed thing.

If you don't want it then don't buy it but don't try to defer the rest of us who do want one.

Besides Apple is into making the most money possible off of a device and a smaller tablet wouldn't bring in very good returns so it probably won't happen. Here's hoping that it will happen though but untill then other manufactures make very good products to choose from. The Samsung 7.7 is one of the best tablets on the market today for those who like Android that is.
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post #99 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Not in the opinion of Apple.

Now your complaining that ten inches is to big because Apple's iPad is 9.7". Breathe Relic, breathe, it's just a post from an insane person.
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post #100 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

3. Apple have said repeatedly over the past few years that they are a HARDWARE company. The software is just there to make the hardware look good. Steve and Tim have said this over and over.



Here's what Steve said:

"we dont think you can make a great tablet with a seven-inch screen. We think its too small to express the software that people want to put on these things. And we think, as a software-driven company, we think about the software strategies first. "


Apple is a software-driven company. Apple thinks about the software strategies first.
post #101 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

I'll get one if the memory is at least 32 Gb and it has the latest A5 chip. If it can do everything the current iPad does minus the retina display it will work well for me.

Oh I'm sure they'll have a 32GB model. I would love to see some sort of physical exspansion though like MiniSD card. I still don't understand why Apple refuses to add ome. It can't be bulk or weight as the current iPad is not very thin or light. I'm tired of using that SD card expansion thing, it hangs out to far from the bottom and you need a Jail Broken system to properly use it. Well use it where it's actually usefull anyway.
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post #102 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

It would be the same resolution as the ipad 2 or maybe even more to make it Retina,

While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one-quarter of their present size.
post #103 of 129
Apple thinks about software strategies to get people to purchase Mac hardware.

The vast majority of Apple's profits come from the sales of hardware. If Apple was a software driven company they would be licensing their software including the OS. But they don't because the software is just a dongle for the expensive hardware.
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post #104 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one-quarter of their present size.

Jobs was obviously lying, as he did about steaming music, phones and tablets.

If we need to sandpaper for a 7" tablet we would need to sandpaper for a 3.5" phone, but much more. It's mis direction
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post #105 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Here's what Steve said:

"we dont think you can make a great tablet with a seven-inch screen. We think its too small to express the software that people want to put on these things. And we think, as a software-driven company, we think about the software strategies first. "


Apple is a software-driven company. Apple thinks about the software strategies first.

We don't think, meaning it wasn't set it stone, meaning it's possible they have changed there mind. As horrible as it was loosing Steve Jobs he is no longer with us, it won't be anti-steve doctrine ifa Apple decides to make a smaller iPad. It's just progress and going where the market takes you. Like Shaun, UK said, "make it and they will come".
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post #106 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one-quarter of their present size.

All Things D Conference, 2003....

Walt Mossberg: "A lot of people think given the success youve had with portable devices, you should be making a tablet or a PDA".

Steve Jobs: There are no plans to make a tablet. It turns out people want keyboards. We look at the tablet and we think its going to fail. Tablets appeal to rich guys with plenty of other PCs and devices already.
post #107 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Here's what Steve said:

"we dont think you can make a great tablet with a seven-inch screen. We think its too small to express the software that people want to put on these things. And we think, as a software-driven company, we think about the software strategies first. "


Apple is a software-driven company. Apple thinks about the software strategies first.

I understand what Steve has said, but Apple makes most of its money off it's hardware. I would argue these days Apple is more well known for their hardware (look and feel) of their products than their OS. I was in Best Buy a few months ago buying a cheap(er) laptop for my niece. I asked the sales associate about Ultrabooks and what the draw was and he basically said people want a laptop that looks like a MacBook Air but runs Windows.
post #108 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

All Things D Conference, 2003....

Walt Mossberg: "A lot of people think given the success youve had with portable devices, you should be making a tablet or a PDA".

Steve Jobs: There are no plans to make a tablet. It turns out people want keyboards. We look at the tablet and we think its going to fail. Tablets appeal to rich guys with plenty of other PCs and devices already.

Heh, good find. When Apple released the iPod photo didn't Steve knock video on portable music devices? Didn't he say photos were the way to go? Of course a few years later they released iPod's that played video and of course the iPod Nano with video recording.
post #109 of 129
I hope Apple does not go 7.85" - and instead does 6.5". The difference between 7.85" and 9.7" is too small and there is a strong possibility that 7.85" could cannibalize the existing iPad. A 6.5" option would be clearly differentiated, and unlikely to cannibalize the existing iPad. At 6.5", the device would be positioned cleanly between the iPod Touch and iPad.

There are multiple reasons why it makes sense to do a 6.5" screen.

- Don't leave open any segment for the competition to establish a beachhead. With Windows Fire tablets likely to flood the markets, an iPad Mini at $249 will be a compelling option. A lot of customers would pick up the iPad Mini if such a product is available.

- There are some use cases where the 9.7" form factor is not required, and probably not ideal. For instance, if you want to mount the iPad inside a car, 9.7" is quite big, and you might find it difficult to find space to mount it in a car. On the other hand, a 6.5" device might be easier to mount, especially if the bezel is compressed signficantly.

- People use the iPad for a variety of things. While 9.7" might be ideal and required for content creation, simple content consumption might be perfectly fine with a 6.5" screen. Movies, Music, Mail, etc should be quite good even on the smaller screen.

- 6.5" would make it crystal clear that this is a content consumption device. It should not be used for content creation - even for things like Mail. In fact, once Siri matures, Apple should possibly discourage using the keyboard on this smaller device, and encourage people to use Siri.

- A smaller tablet might actually give Apple more ecosystem benefits, and help position Apple even stronger vis-a-vis Amazon.
post #110 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Heh, good find. When Apple released the iPod photo didn't Steve knock video on portable music devices? Didn't he say photos were the way to go? Of course a few years later they released iPod's that played video and of course the iPod Nano with video recording.

He did indeed. Here's the quote from the same conference...

Walt Mossberg: "Do you have plans for movies on the iPod?"

Steve Jobs: "Im not convinced people want to watch movies on a tiny little screen. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, its the music, stupid, its the music. Musics been around for a long time, will continue to be, its huge. Not speculative, a real tangible market".

Steve was the master of misdirection when he wanted to keep Apple's plans secret from the competition, to buy them time to develop another insanely great product. I see no reason why Tim won't continue with this policy.
post #111 of 129
i prefer this one than ipad. it's handy too
post #112 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Jobs was obviously lying, as he did about steaming music, phones and tablets.

If we need to sandpaper for a 7" tablet we would need to sandpaper for a 3.5" phone, but much more. It's mis direction

He wasn't lying, there were years between his statements and Apple's implementation of features/devices. They may have been thinking about those things at the time but you can't very well say "we're looking into getting into the phone business but haven't come up with a viable option and won't for a couple of years" because that's a bumbling business move. Until they're ready to go to market with something it's ridiculous to talk about it as an eventuality.
post #113 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venerable View Post

He wasn't lying, there were years between his statements and Apple's implementation of features/devices. They may have been thinking about those things at the time but you can't very well say "we're looking into getting into the phone business but haven't come up with a viable option and won't for a couple of years" because that's a bumbling business move. Until they're ready to go to market with something it's ridiculous to talk about it as an eventuality.

He went out of his way to rubbish the ideas. ergo we cant trust what Apple said.
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post #114 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

He went out of his way to rubbish the ideas. ergo we cant trust what Apple said.

They went out of their way to fight Flash and Java.

Apparently Apple was lying about how bad they were, too.
post #115 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They went out of their way to fight Flash and Java.

Apparently Apple was lying about how bad they were, too.

Most of your mode of argumentation is whataboutary. At the start you mentioned the iPhone nano. What about the analysts who mentioned the iPhone nano ( well they were wrong, but so what - what do you think this proves about this actual rumour. Nothing).

Now you've moved onto Java.

Thats a crap argument anyway, but in this case it fails even the most basic of logical tests, its bad whataboutary. Apple are not going to go into the Flash or Java markets, and were never.

What I, and others, are demonstrating here is that Apple ( and, often Jobs) rubbish a hardware format or type of device and then produce that very thing.

There are plenty of reasons for Apple to make this device, the main one is to stop a leaking of a segment of the market from under them. Here is some very bad news for you. Apple are almost certainly not going to be producing one tablet size,and one phone size in 2020. Its like the iPods. They innovative the platform, and then within the platform. And if not in 2020, why not change now?

And once again I wonder why you follow an innovative company, since you seem to get annoyed when they move onto other devices outside your comfort zone.
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post #116 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

He went out of his way to rubbish the ideas. ergo we cant trust what Apple said.

Again, it's not like they said it one day and then came out with a product the next, there were years between the events and in all likelihood, they didn't see it in their future. Apple experiments with hundreds of ideas that never see the light of day.
post #117 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venerable View Post

Again, it's not like they said it one day and then came out with a product the next, there were years between the events and in all likelihood, they didn't see it in their future. Apple experiments with hundreds of ideas that never see the light of day.

It doesn't actually experiment with that many ideas. The quote about the video was from 2003, the video iPod was released in 2005.
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post #118 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

It doesn't actually experiment with that many ideas. The quote about the video was from 2003, the video iPod was released in 2005.

Apple files over a hundred patents a year. This output isn't the result of one guy sitting in a room all day, there are any number of projects going on at the company that don't see the light of day. Apple only focuses on bringing a few ideas to market a year but that doesn't mean nobody's working on anything else.
post #119 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venerable View Post

Apple files over a hundred patents a year. This output isn't the result of one guy sitting in a room all day, there are any number of projects going on at the company that don't see the light of day. Apple only focuses on bringing a few ideas to market a year but that doesn't mean nobody's working on anything else.

They don't really have a research group - outside of johathon Ive;s department. Most of the patents are software and many are claims on existing functionality.

But this isn't really about patentable stuff necessarily, unless decreasing the size of something is patentable.

If Apple have gone so far as to have ordered components they are seriously looking into something. These mythical non-products are never discovered, or talked about. We do know there were two iPhone teams, one using the iPod OS. but thats it, in terms of significant unreleased products.

I find the hostility to this a bit remarkable. I would be interested in people saying why they think this is technically not possible, instead it seems that people who have little interest in a smaller iPad are just hand waving.
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post #120 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

I've said nothing that has not previously been said here at least 100 times.

1. A UI designed for a 10 inch tablet will not work well on a 7 inch tablet.

2. A larger iPhone would not fit comfortably into a pocket.

Either refute the standard wisdom, or don't.

You have no idea what your talking about. A 7.85" iPad with the exact same resolution as a iPad 2 would be identical in every way, just smaller. It's like my Galaxy Note with 1280 x 800 and my Galaxy Tab 7.7" with 1280 x 800, they both look identical when displaying the same apps.
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