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Customers report long delays when customizing Apple's Mac Pro - Page 2

post #41 of 71
4/16/12 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLUSTERSandPROS View Post


Profit? Minimal.



Case closed.
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post #42 of 71
4/16/12 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post

What all these articles are is depressing. Not much optimism left. I wish Apple would just get it over with already.

Seriously guy, nobody has yet to even claim that they have inside knowledge of what Apple is up to ( except for possibly the guy with the friend using Galaxy). All of this crap that has been posted as rumor or even fact in some cases, is just that bull shit!! Nothing has come out of Apple from an even remotely reliable source indicating what or how the desktop line up will be restructured. So get over your depression as there is no reason for it.

Many of us here like to speculate on what a Mac Pro replacement will look like. You need to understand what that word "speculate" means, because it is again dramatically different than a rumor and again has no bearing on what Apple is actually doing. As to what Apple "MIGHT" actually be doing again it is all guess work but a rational person would have to say it is time for a major overhual of Apples entire desktop lineup.

In any event no matter what Apple does it isn't he end of he world. There is no need to jump off a bridge or do anything else rash.
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post #43 of 71
4/16/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You can say this, and you can say "going the way of the redesign" with equal weight to both arguments.

It's an interesting time. Apple better not blow it.

And both "discontinuation" and "update on the order of the last one" are 'blowing it'.

My suggestion and what I would buy is something with the high end iMac specs including the 3.4G i7 or highest i7 available. Then remove the display, subtract ~$600 and make it 1/2 the size of the current pro. That would be a nice machine for about $1500. I think the pro is not selling well because of its high price and boat anchor form factor.

For pros who really need Xeons, same price as the current pro, smaller, and lighter, and expandable of course.
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post #44 of 71
4/16/12 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabuga View Post

Not meaning to be a smart arse, but the current iMacs (and I think "all" of the 21.5 and 27 inch versions) have got 4 RAM sockets. Thats how they get 16 GB (4x 4GB DIMMS).
Having said that, I fully agree with your point. I have a PowerMac G5, and an iMac simply isn't a good replacement. I love being able to upgrade the HDD's, add PCI cards, and Optical drives, without a fully disassembly!

Just a clarification on the Ram slots. The iMac only has two slots but 8GB DDR3 modules are now available (expensive) You can put 2 x 8GB in an iMac, or most of the i7 family of intel driven Macs

Peter Dudley
www.logictraining.co.uk
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post #45 of 71
4/16/12 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by logictraining View Post

Just a clarification on the Ram slots. The iMac only has two slots

No, they have four.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #46 of 71
4/16/12 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by calguy View Post

Apple is planning a significant update to Final Cut Pro X that will deliver a number of new features, including multichannel audio editing and dual viewers, when it debuts later this year.
This is directly from Apple as stated from an article from Sunday. They also will be supporting the RED camera. Footage from that alone needs huge amounts of storage and RAM for processing since they are supporting the RED format for direct editing.

If Apple is committed to improving and updating FCP X then coming out with the updates stated will need lots of storage space within a Mac Pro and Thunderbolt multi-drive external RAID for backup. The two go naturally together. Besides adding the newer and faster INTEL processors, who knows what else they have in mind with hardware and with Lion or Mountain Lion to work along with it. After all, 4TB drives are now available, too.

So, I can't believe that in any way they would be abandoning the Mac Pro but are going to enhance it. I got my 3.33ghz 6 core with an SSD in the second DVD bay for my boot and maxed out the drives. OWC did a great job with it and I will use them again when needed for the newer Mac Pro coming out.


I think one thing we can be sure of is that Apple will not release a version of FCP X that doesn't run satisfactorily on a MBP. Just because it would be faster if run in 32 gigs of RAM with a 12 core CPU, you can't use that rational to conclude a Mac Pro update is inevitable, especially the part about the extra drives since external using Thunderbolt is now just as fast as internal. I don't think Apple cares about HDMI capture or output which currently can only be done with an add in card on a Mac Pro.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #47 of 71
4/16/12 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

I hope they are killing off the Mac Pro to focus on the most important products. Mac Pro is an unnecessary distraction that attracts very little business for Apple.

eksodos=troll. Don't waste your breath.
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post #48 of 71
4/16/12 at 3:48pm
I agree with many others, in that Apple has more than enough cash to keep a Pro line, in whatever configuration, alive. Apple has spent years getting to this point, which has been possible largely due to the professional creative market. They should service that market with the respect it deserves. I believe Apple would have died long ago without them. I liken it to the camera industry. Most camera manufacturers make a fortune on myriad lines of point and shoot cameras for the consumer market; much like modern day Apple. However, they constantly refresh their pro lines with great pride, almost out of a duty to show off their muscle with their pro offerings, even though that segment of the market pales in comparison.

Of course, this is just my humble opinion. My heart says that Apple will support the professional community, but with a new configuration in order to show their pride and flex their muscle; my head on the other hand is very uncertain of its longevity.

Also, for what it is worth, I am somewhat angry at Apple for not providing some sort of insight to its intentions regarding the Pro line a long time ago. They have ignored its most loyal users for far too long by not providing some sort of direction or timeline, negative or otherwise.

Despite my rantings, I remain hopeful and very much a loyal user myself.
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post #49 of 71
4/16/12 at 3:51pm
Like I said before. Just everybody take a chill pill. There will be a new Mac Pro because I just got a new one this week!
Actually I thought they would update it for NAB but that is not looking too likely. When the new Intel chips are widely available I would bet on their being an update. In my case I just could not keep waiting.
Even if a new one comes out tomorrow I will keep the one I bought. WHY? Because 5 or 6 years from now when I need a new one, I know there will be a far faster, cooler, bigger , better, mega high zoot 500mhz, 67.5 core Mac Uber Pro with 100 terabytes of DDR42 8855 EEC RAM and a Raidion 8989 graphics card capable of two bazillion triangles a nano second. Or you could get the iPad 9 that will run rings around it. If you need a new computer get one. There is ALWAYS something to wait for.
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post #50 of 71
4/16/12 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, they have four.

No they have 8 RAM Slots…
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post #51 of 71
4/16/12 at 4:06pm
It's true that compared to iPads, iPhones and even iMacs, Mac Pros make up a very very small part of Apple's profits. However, it is some of the most ardent Apple supporters and developers that need and use Mac Pros on a day to day basis.

One possible upgrade would be to keep the same case rev the motherboard: new CPU, faster bus, thunderbolt connecter on the back. This is an attractive option, because it would take minimal effort on their part, keep sales chugging along, and keep users more or less happy.

What I would rather see is a re-think of the Mac Pro concept, with something like a mini-tower design. With thunderbolt you don't need as many drive-bays or slots. A package containing all the most advanced technologies in a smaller case, and fewer slots, would be very attractive. Especially if the price came down a bit.
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post #52 of 71
4/16/12 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quazar View Post

No they have 8 RAM Slots

No, they have four.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #53 of 71
4/16/12 at 4:14pm
Also it seems that the release of a New Mac Pro model, has mostly been held up, by the delay in the delivery of new processor cores from intel - This delay is not just affecting Apple, it's also affecting other suppliers too…

The new Intel Xeon, is now very late....
- It's currently running 6 months behind schedule... The new Xeon Chip was due for release in late 2011
– It's now looking like July 2012...
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/21/...st-early-2012/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/23998...arly_2012.html
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post #54 of 71
4/16/12 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, they have four.


Yea… but the original artical was talking about Mac Pro's - which do have 8 memory slots…
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post #55 of 71
4/16/12 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quazar View Post

Yea but the original artical was talking about Mac Pro's - which do have 8 memory slots

But our conversation is about the iMac. Which has four.

Notice also that the Mac Pro also has four RAM slots. It has eight when you get dual processors.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #56 of 71
4/16/12 at 4:49pm
The straight from China should make no difference, all of my mac's have been shipped fedex straight.
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post #57 of 71
4/16/12 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

And what percent of Apple users actually need that much computer.

I do for video compression and codec work. The more cores the better.
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post #58 of 71
4/16/12 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

I imagine a new Mac Pro will be 1/3 in size. Instead refering to Thunderbolt for expansion.

Good luck getting a Kona card to work that way, and having it share bandwidth with a 12TB RAID.

The "put everything on Thunderbolt sitting in a pile next to the machine" crowd doesn't seem to understand the realities of a professional production environment. Nor do they want to.
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post #59 of 71
4/16/12 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

I imagine a new Mac Pro will be 1/3 in size. Instead refering to Thunderbolt for expansion.

Yes. At most about 1/3 the size. I think Apple should make the next Mac Pro as small as possible with a high-end 8-core CPU, 8 DIMM slots, one drive bay, and support for an SSD card (like the MacBook Air). Ports should include 2 Thunderbolt, 4 USB 2.0, and 2 Ethernet. Anyone who needs RAID can get an external RAID device. No need for internal PCI slots. That should make it possible to sell an entry-level configuration for $1499 with Apple's margins. It could be between the Mac Mini and the NeXTstation in size.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #60 of 71
4/16/12 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

I hope they are killing off the Mac Pro to focus on the most important products. Mac Pro is an unnecessary distraction that attracts very little business for Apple.

You're absolutely right! Why make computers for professionals who want to create things and change the world? Better their time spent walking down the street with iPhones and iPads, tweeting and texting and banging into things. That's what the world needs more of these days.

I think Apple should cater exclusively to people like the one in the new commercial. You know, the one where the lady has to ask Siri if it's raining out cause she's too dopey to look out the window?

And I hope all future OSX updates are exclusively geared toward making my computer a 27 inch iPad.
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post #61 of 71
4/17/12 at 2:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post

Good luck getting a Kona card to work that way, and having it share bandwidth with a 12TB RAID.

The "put everything on Thunderbolt sitting in a pile next to the machine" crowd doesn't seem to understand the realities of a professional production environment. Nor do they want to.

The Kona 3 is now available in an external enclosure with Thunderbolt - it's called the IO XT. The processing and guts are exactly the same. The move to tapeless workflows means that more people will be tempted by AJA's $249 T-Tap. Nowadays, many Kona cards are only used to feed monitors. I rarely use tape decks in professional work these days.

Whilst there is a need for workstations in some areas of post production, increasingly, post shops are looking towards iMacs or similar (those that wish to stay on OSX) as they are more than capable of all editorial work required via FCP, Avid or PPro. You might like to look at the supported systems for the newly announced Smoke 2013. It's iMacs and Macbook Pros. Some companies have already moved on. Many others are actively looking at the lower cost and more-than-powerful-enough iMacs for most uses.

As far as the Kona IO XT sharing with a RAID array (I would hope more than 12Tb for pro use!) this is more than possible for the 2-port iMac, whether it be Fibre, 10-GigE or whatever via Thunderbolt adapters coming available now. Video cards require nowhere near the bandwith of graphics cards.
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post #62 of 71
4/17/12 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Mainly because ARM sucks for the type of workloads Apple users commonly deal with.

The only indications that Apple is leaving the Pro computer market comes from a bunch of worry warts that have no knowledge of what Apple is doing or for that matter grasp Intels role in this long drawn out story.

Apple will have a Pro desktop solution, I just don't expect it to look like a Mac Pro.

I agree, but they have really kept a lid on the R&D, which probably means they have something coming that will really Wow us.

Hoping they announce something soon, my Mac Pro account is on the decline, no thanks to the new iPad
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post #63 of 71
4/17/12 at 4:54am
There were no new Xeons available before now, there could not have been a "new" Mac Pro before this. The Sandy Bridge Xeons are just becoming available. The Mac Pros may not be a high volume market, but alienating the professional content creation market would not be a good idea. The iMac or other models may work well for some projects, but ECC memory and Xeons and workstation graphics cards are required for some workloads.


I'm curious how Thunderbolt will be implemented, afaik there are no graphics cards with it, and it would have to leech PCI-E bandwidth away from the card, but they can't do it on the motherboard either because they need video output FROM the card.
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post #64 of 71
4/17/12 at 5:24am
Anyone who thinks Apple isn't willing to abandon "power users" need only look at recent history to see otherwise. They basically alienated an entire industry (video post production) when they introduced Final Cut Pro X.

That said, the NAB convention is happening in Las Vegas this week (an event that draws professionals from TV, film, radio, music--basically everyone who might be interested in a Mac Pro). Autodesk introduced an exciting new version of Smoke, a very high end editing package with a huge price cut. Previously, it needed a Mac Pro to run. Autodesk was very excited to report that it will now run on an iMac or MacBook Pro. Think about it... if you were Apple and had any interest in the Mac Pro, is this not the perfect time to introduce the new model to the salivating masses? Not a peep. Meanwhile, HP has been flaunting their new 810 workstation for weeks and is already taking orders.
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post #65 of 71
4/17/12 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Edison View Post

They basically alienated an entire industry (video post production) when they introduced Final Cut Pro X.

No. Give it a rest.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #66 of 71
4/17/12 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think one thing we can be sure of is that Apple will not release a version of FCP X that doesn't run satisfactorily on a MBP.

In my opinion, it doesn't. I've got an early '11 quad-core i7 MBP with 8GB RAM and though FCP-X does "technically" run and is stable, I don't find it terribly usable for anything other than small jobs. The instant it starts rendering in the background, my MBP goes to turbofan mode, gets hotter than blazes and slows dramatically. Perhaps my definition of satisfactorily is different than theirs.

BTW, I realize I'm trying to edit video on a laptop and that it will stress my machine. That is why I want/need a MacPro.
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post #67 of 71
4/17/12 at 8:31am
It will never happen, but Apple would make it easier for everyone if they would just let a decent third party company make Mac Pro "clones". They wouldn't waste their iPad resources and they would make the "power users" happy. Sell the OS for a jacked up price even. Professional users will pay it if it means they can keep their high powered systems.
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post #68 of 71
4/17/12 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post

Good luck getting a Kona card to work that way, and having it share bandwidth with a 12TB RAID.

The "put everything on Thunderbolt sitting in a pile next to the machine" crowd doesn't seem to understand the realities of a professional production environment. Nor do they want to.

1. With future versions of the protocol, and with multiple Thunderbolt busses, I think it'll work.
2. The stuff is all all mounted in the server room anyway.
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post #69 of 71
4/17/12 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's why this article is useless.

ONE customer saw a delay. Without knowing what their configuration was, it's impossible to guess what the cause of the delay was. Maybe he ordered a high end video card which is temporarily unavailable.

Indeed.

Not to mention since when did we start using inventory at a 3rd party retailer as a definite sign of anything. Shouldn't we be looking at Apple's website, which comes from the source. Run some zips and see what the instore pickup says etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Sadly, I believe Apple could have saved the XServe.

Apple could offer activation and management server via OS X Lion Server that iPads, iPhones and iPod Touches such that could be managed within the business enterprise. Such a service could include encrypted and compressed email, messaging and web browsing. While this wouldn't sell millions, I believe (considering the continued strong interest in Research in Motion solutions) this could be a popular solutions for government and companies where security is a primary concern (defense, finance and healthcare). I believe this would create a halo effect within the enterprise for additional enterprise products.

And what about any of that makes the Xserve a requirement. What can the Xserve do that can't be done some other way like with a Mac Pro or even a Mac Mini running server and connected to an external Raid bay on a thunderbolt connection.
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post #70 of 71
4/17/12 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

And what percent of Apple users actually need that much computer.

Actually a LOT of people....

People in the broadcasting/movie industries, in the digital content creation industry, in the server/media industries. People who are retouchers, graphic designers, animators etc. who want the stability and strength of a Mac platform. Macs are one of the few platforms for example, that can output and process very large images with Photoshop without running out of memory or crashing. Wonder why professional photographers always likes to use Macs? Its because Windows is just not really good enough for all this (despite all that has been said).

Also a Mac Pro is needed because iMacs and Mac Minis DO NOT do the job of retouching properly. I know because I have both. For small jobs yes, for bigger and time-intensive jobs no. iMacs don't support powerful PCIe RAID cards/systems like Areca and the mobile 'M' chips of the current Mac Minis for example, are simply not powerful enough to process big jobs. The same goes for the MacBook Pro - we can't always be retouching on a MBP screen, or have it attached to a dock. Professionals who work with large images on a daily basis need a system that is fast, stable, upgradeable and can use a dedicated and accurate colour calibrated screen.

That's why the Mac Pro is needed.....but it's seriously lagging behind now, it really needs updating. Hopefully the new range will come out with Thunderbolt....
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post #71 of 71
4/18/12 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middleman View Post

Also a Mac Pro is needed because iMacs and Mac Minis DO NOT do the job of retouching properly.

You lost some credibility when you said this.

"iMacs can't retouch photos properly?" Really?
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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