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Tim Cook says Windows 8-style tablet PC convergence won't please anyone

post #1 of 114
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Apple's chief executive Tim Cook doesn't see success in Microsoft's strategy to have Windows 8 power everything from notebooks to tablets to hybrid transforming devices, comparing their convergence to a refrigerator with toaster functions tacked on the side.

When asked by Richard Gardner of Citigroup whether Apple will eventually converge its iPad and MacBook Air products into a single computing device combining the portability of a tablet with the functionality of a keyboard and full desktop operating system, Cook dismissed the idea as poorly conceived.

"There seems to be a lot of work, particularly on PC based platforms," Gardner said, "to combine the PC and tablet experience going forward, in part because Windows 8 is a touched based operating system as well. Can you comment on why you don't believe the PC and the Ultrabook and tablet markets will converge?"

"Anything can be forced to converge," Cook answered. "But the problem is that the products are about tradeoffs. You begin to make tradeoffs to the point where what you have left at the end of the day doesn't please anyone."

Cook quipped "you can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but you know, those things are probably not going to be pleasing to the user."

Apple's intent to create distinct products with iOS and OS X has been clearly evident since the original iPad was launched in early 2010.

iPad has no mouse


While Cook noted that the two platforms have freely borrowed functionality from each other from Messages to Reminders to Game Center and the Notifications Center planned for the upcoming OS X Mountain Lion, he said the form factor of tablets and notebooks aren't destined to merge anytime soon, due to how the the two categories of products are actually used.

Apple sees huge market for tablets

Cook added, "Our view is that the tablet market is huge," noting that Apple realized this before the iPad ever went on sale, just from observing how broadly useful the tablet device was in internal testing.

"The iPad has taken off, not only in consumer [markets] in a meaningful way," Cook stated, "but in education and in enterprise, and its sort of everywhere you look now."

Additionally, "as the ecosystem gets better and better and as we double down on making great products, I think the limit here is nowhere in sight."

Cook added that in its first two years, Apple sold 67 million iPads, noting that it took 24 years to sell that many Macs, five years to sell that many iPods and three years to sell that many iPhones.

Cook: notebooks and tablets are different markets

After noting the "universal" appeal of iPad, Cook noted that market research firms from IDC to Gartner to Forrester are all predicting that tablets in general will grow to over a 300 million unit market with just three years.

Cook also stated that he also sees tremendous potential for conventional systems like the MacBook Air, noting that "we continue to innovate in that product. But I do think that it appeals to someone that has a little bit different requirements.

"You wouldn't want to put these things together because you end up compromising in both and not pleasing either user. Some people will prefer to own both, and that's great too. But to make the compromise of convergence, we're not going to that party.

"Others might, from a defensive point of view particularly," Cook said, a clear dig at Microsoft's strategy of offering one converged product line under Windows 8 while advertising that it will offer 'compromise free' computing.

"We're going to play above," Cook stated.

Windows 8 gets closer to more demos

Microsoft plans to show off a functional preview of Windows 8 in June, a year and a half after announcing its Windows-on-ARM plans to revamp the Tablet PC product that it has never succeeded in getting off the ground over the past decade of attempts.

Microsoft most recently attempted to deliver a Windows 7-based tablet under the new name "Slate PC" in a partnership with HP, just days before Apple announced the first iPad. Slate PC was quickly abandoned but Microsoft spent the rest of 2010 and 2011 talking about how the next version of Windows would eventually deliver a worthy competitor to Apple's tablet.



Microsoft has also lost its once significant share of the smartphone market with the release of Apple's iPhone, and attempted to thwart sales of the iPod with its own music player that didn't ever gain any real traction. Windows 8 hopes to pool the technologies and look and feel invested in Windows Phone and the Zune to turn the stagnant PC business around while also launching tablets it hopes will only compete with iPad and not further cannibalize the market for conventional Windows PCs.
post #2 of 114

Windows 8 will be a gigantic disaster for Microsoft. Mark your calendars.

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post #3 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Windows 8 will be a gigantic disaster for Microsoft. Mark your calendars.

 

not really.

 

if things go wrong (by wrong i mean 100 million copies of it sold) they delete metro.

 

then?things get normal.. like they has bee for the past 10 years. if apple ever has 20% market share globally, the pc industry collapses, so it won't happen.

not this way.

 

post #4 of 114

Tim Cooke was quoted as saying "the Windows 8 tablet makes a great cutting board for my sushi." It is wide spread knowledge that all Billionaires use all non Apple Tablets for many types of kitchen uses from cutting melba bread to serving their west highland terriers their Cesar Milan home made dog food.  I mean really what good are they for any way.  Rectangular Frisbees in Frisbee golf?  Here comes a Frisbee oh wait I hear a windows bootup sound.  Hey he got a hole in one.

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post #5 of 114

huh?

post #6 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

 

 

not really.

 

if things go wrong (by wrong i mean 100 million copies of it sold) they delete metro.

 

then?things get normal.. like they has bee for the past 10 years. if apple ever has 20% market share globally, the pc industry collapses, so it won't happen.

not this way.

 

 

huh?

post #7 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Windows 8 will be a gigantic disaster for Microsoft. Mark your calendars.

 

If that turns out to be true then I think you can say goodbye to Ballmer.

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post #8 of 114

I've been using Windows 8 Consumer preview for quite a while on my MBA via Vmware.  I'm testing it to see how all my Windows development tools work in the long run.  I really hope MS brings in more Windows 7 GUI on the desktop side as they hid many aspects of it that will frustrate users.

The metro interface is interesting but I find it extremely distracting for use on the PC desktop.  I can see it on the tablet side working better but I think MS is really shooting itself in the foot in trying to combine both a desktop OS and touch OS in the same package.

I'm still torn on Windows 8.  I think they will have the same problem as they had with Vista in that everyone stayed put on XP because Vista was just trash.  I think most will continue to stay on, and use Windows 7 for a long, long time.

Hell, I have quite a few client sites that refuse to get off of Windows XP.  

post #9 of 114

Windows 8 tablets are already a success in the minds of the fantasists, drumming up support all over the web.

 

I can imagine rooms full of Indians, hunched over computers, extolling the virtues of products for $2 a day.

 

Meanwhile the iPad is a "toy", "only for consumption" hammered out across forums, well preachers of the coming of the Windows 8 messiah, I've got news for you, it isn't 1995.

 

btw a game made on the iPad.

 

http://twolivesleft.com/CargoBot/

 

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post #10 of 114

If convergence won't please anyone, then why Mountain Lion?

post #11 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

If convergence won't please anyone, then why Mountain Lion?

 


Convergence in OS X Lion-> Mountain Lion is about converging Services to provide more depth and breadth to the OS X ecosystem, not about OS X reabsorbing iOS.

post #12 of 114
Of course, knowing apple, six months after they diss the idea of something they come out with their defining product.

I expect to see a fridge that toasts (and MORE!) during the holiday sales season this year. He denied it, so it must be coming.
post #13 of 114

MS in 2010:

The iPad is a toy

 

MS in 2012: 

We must make an iPad to survive!

post #14 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Hell, I have quite a few client sites that refuse to get off of Windows XP.  

 

I actually find XP to be a pretty decent OS, however, my view may be limited as I only use it to play a game I can't play on 10.7 :p

post #15 of 114

Cook said that hardware convergence was what users didn't want, not software convergence. I'm sure software convergence is quite the opposite in terms of desirability.

post #16 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Of course, knowing apple, six months after they diss the idea of something they come out with their defining product.
I expect to see a fridge that toasts (and MORE!) during the holiday sales season this year. He denied it, so it must be coming.

 

Fridge/Toaster? Silly iFans. Anything is possible I guess - after all they already released the TV/toaster a few years ago.

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post #17 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Of course, knowing apple, six months after they diss the idea of something they come out with their defining product.

I expect to see a fridge that toasts (and MORE!) during the holiday sales season this year. He denied it, so it must be coming.

Do you want whipped cream on that BLT?
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #18 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Windows 8 will be a gigantic disaster for Microsoft. Mark your calendars.


You know Windows tablets will be a consumer hit when Steve Ballmer dons a red sweater to hock one. He's so downright folksy. What's not to love? Come sit by the fire with your uncle Ballmer while he reads you a story from his Windows tablet.

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post #19 of 114

>If convergence won't please anyone, then why Mountain Lion?

 

I agree... and I'd say the same for Lion. Controlling your computer through cryptic hand gestures is not intuitive. Why not make a touch sensitive version of the Twister mat that I can put under my desk and whisk windows on and off screen with my feet? Or how about a butt cushion where wiggle gestures move things to the trash? A touch screen is great because it's immediate and obvious. Lion's gestures are stupid and ill conceived because they are non-immediate, and non-obvious. Hey Apple, can you see what gesture I'm making now? It's Snow Leopard for me for the foreseeable future.

post #20 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

>If convergence won't please anyone, then why Mountain Lion?

 

I agree... and I'd say the same for Lion. Controlling your computer through cryptic hand gestures is not intuitive. Why not make a touch sensitive version of the Twister mat that I can put under my desk and whisk windows on and off screen with my feet? Or how about a butt cushion where wiggle gestures move things to the trash? A touch screen is great because it's immediate and obvious. Lion's gestures are stupid and ill conceived because they are non-immediate, and non-obvious. Hey Apple, can you see what gesture I'm making now? It's Snow Leopard for me for the foreseeable future.


The butt cushion will never replace the Lap Mouse.

However, I do visualize that future Desktop Macs will use the iPad as an auxiliary touch input device... Especially for apps like drawing, painting, CAD, audio/video/photo editing...
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 4/24/12 at 5:27pm
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post #21 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Windows 8 will be a gigantic disaster for Microsoft. Mark your calendars.

 

I kind of smell this happening due to the lack of interest in the Nokia iPhone-look-alike that is running Windows 7, which looks a lot like will Windows 8 on the phone. If they can't sell Windows 7 on the phone, there isn't much hope for Windows 8. In addition, Microsoft is paying developers to write tablet and phone apps for Windows 8, and you just cannot create the rich ecosystem of what Apple has as quickly as MS needs for the Win8 device market. 

 

From what I understand Win8 isn't even a finished product. They will be able to only show a partially operating OS in June. But beyond all that, they will be showing an OS then, not consumer anything like what Apple does when they show a new OS... Apple shows real compelling reasons for the market to want what the OS can deliver. 

 

Finally, who is going to be responsible for the hardware-software interface? 

post #22 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scherrer View Post

The iPad still is a toy. MS wants to create a better tablet. Like the tablets they've been making since the turn of the century. Like the tablets Bill Gates preached about right in front of Steve Jobs during an interview in 2007 BEFORE the iPad came out.

 

I think it's safe to say that Microsoft wants to perfect their tablet. And the iPad is not and never will be a tablet. It's a giant iPhone.

 

... and there we are.

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post #23 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scherrer View Post

the iPad is not and never will be a tablet.

 

iPad is a tablet and competitors the world over are scrambling to copy it. What currently available product do you consider to be a better tablet than the iPad?

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post #24 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scherrer View Post

The iPad still is a toy. MS wants to create a better tablet. Like the tablets they've been making since the turn of the century. Like the tablets Bill Gates preached about right in front of Steve Jobs during an interview in 2007 BEFORE the iPad came out.

 

I think it's safe to say that Microsoft wants to perfect their tablet. And the iPad is not and never will be a tablet. It's a giant iPhone.

 

You're just looking for a fight, aren't you Jeff?

 

You might get more action if you had a leg to stand on.

post #25 of 114

"Anything can be forced to converge," Cook answered. "But the problem is that the products are about tradeoffs. You begin to make tradeoffs to the point where what you have left at the end of the day doesn't please anyone."

 

*ahem* iTunes *ahem*

post #26 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


You know Windows tablets will be a consumer hit when Steve Ballmer dons a red sweater to hock one. He's so downright folksy. What's not to love? Come sit by the fire with your uncle Ballmer while he reads you a story from his Windows tablet.

 

I understand the second version of the Win8 tablet will be able to show colors, and eventually they will even handle graphics! I can't remember for sure, but I think they trotted out Curley in his red Christmas sweater to entertain the shills while Moe and Larry reset all the computers that had just blown up... it was a CES to remember!

post #27 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfoDave View Post

 

You're just looking for a fight, aren't you Jeff?

 

You might get more action if you had a leg to stand on.

 

Jeff is just that way because he's vertically challenged... or was that Mutt? Which one wore the fez?

post #28 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

>If convergence won't please anyone, then why Mountain Lion?

 

I agree... and I'd say the same for Lion. Controlling your computer through cryptic hand gestures is not intuitive. Why not make a touch sensitive version of the Twister mat that I can put under my desk and whisk windows on and off screen with my feet? Or how about a butt cushion where wiggle gestures move things to the trash? A touch screen is great because it's immediate and obvious. Lion's gestures are stupid and ill conceived because they are non-immediate, and non-obvious. Hey Apple, can you see what gesture I'm making now? It's Snow Leopard for me for the foreseeable future.

 

Oh no! If I got on the wrong web site I might wipe my hard disk before I could close the window.

post #29 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scherrer View Post

The iPad still is a toy. MS wants to create a better tablet. Like the tablets they've been making since the turn of the century. Like the tablets Bill Gates preached about right in front of Steve Jobs during an interview in 2007 BEFORE the iPad came out.

 

I think it's safe to say that Microsoft wants to perfect their tablet. And the iPad is not and never will be a tablet. It's a giant iPhone.

 


You're being ignorant here.  Microsoft has been trying to make a good tablet for twenty years.  It never offered a tablet people wanted to use, despite attempts as far back as Windows 3.x Tablet Edition.  If it takes you twenty years to "get something right", maybe you should move on to something else.

 

What you're talking about is probably referencing Microsoft Courier, which never made it to production.  How about the HP slate?   Why talk about stuff before it's even ready?

 

Why cling to Microsoft's vaporware like that?  Maybe it's time for you to grow up and stop making excuses for the world's largest software company.  You might not like the iPad, but it's possible that what you want will be a flop.


Edited by JeffDM - 4/24/12 at 6:38pm
post #30 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scherrer View Post

The iPad still is a toy. MS wants to create a better tablet. Like the tablets they've been making since the turn of the century. Like the tablets Bill Gates preached about right in front of Steve Jobs during an interview in 2007 BEFORE the iPad came out.

 

I think it's safe to say that Microsoft wants to perfect their tablet. And the iPad is not and never will be a tablet. It's a giant iPhone.

 

25 billion app downloads and counting...

post #31 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

Cook said that hardware convergence was what users didn't want, not software convergence. I'm sure software convergence is quite the opposite in terms of desirability.


I don't agree with that interpretation. The question he was answering directly referenced software ("Windows 8 is a touched based operating system as well...") so I think he was making the case that like hardware, a one-size-fits-all philosophy doesn't work well for the software either. Certain interfaces make sense for a desktop, but not a tablet.
post #32 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

 

 


Convergence in OS X Lion-> Mountain Lion is about converging Services to provide more depth and breadth to the OS X ecosystem, not about OS X reabsorbing iOS.

 

exactly. Apple is looking at this as a common core and common services but the UI's are separate where it makes sense for them to be separate. No trying to make Mac OS X a touch screen UI although some gestures do work with the touch pad so they are included as options. No putting a faux mouse arrow in iOS. 

 

Whereas it seems like Microsoft is trying to make exactly one OS that will run everything. 

post #33 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post
 Lion's gestures are stupid and ill conceived because they are non-immediate, and non-obvious. 

 

to people that started off on an iPhone or iPad, like many of the switcher, they are very natural. For those that came up from 10.whatever they are options. You can turn them off if you don't like them. Just like  you can flip back scrolling, use the old layout in Mail, take Launchpad off your dock and keep using the Finder. 

 

 

post #34 of 114

I prefer to take my WebEx meetings on the "toy", create rough cuts of educational videos on the "toy", review music and provide feedback on the "toy", do my bookkeeping on the "toy", do most of my business correspondence on the "toy", storyboard on the "toy", do landscape assessments on the "toy", and present my ideas, portfolio, and final products on the "toy".

 

Er... "iPad".

 

 

post #35 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

However, I do visualize that future Desktop Macs will use the iPad as an auxiliary touch input device... Especially for apps like drawing, painting, CAD, audio/video/photo editing...

 

i would love to see that. I think it would be awesome to see iPhoto for iOS connect with iPhoto for Mac OS so I can brush on my iPad and change a photo on my computer in the same way I can do it on my iPad. I would love to be able to flick across my iPad to flip through a 'stack' of photos. or to jog through footage in iMovie or Final Cut. 

post #36 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scherrer View Post

The iPad still is a toy. MS wants to create a better tablet. Like the tablets they've been making since the turn of the century. Like the tablets Bill Gates preached about right in front of Steve Jobs during an interview in 2007 BEFORE the iPad came out.

 

I think it's safe to say that Microsoft wants to perfect their tablet. And the iPad is not and never will be a tablet. It's a giant iPhone.

 


You're being ignorant here.  Microsoft has been trying to make a good tablet for twenty years.  It never offered a tablet people wanted to use, despite attempts as far back as Windows 3.x Tablet Edition.  If it takes you twenty years to "get something right", maybe you should move on to something else.

 

What you're talking about is probably referencing Microsoft Courier, which never made it to production.  How about the HP slate?   Why talk about stuff before it's even ready?

 

Why cling to Microsoft's vaporware like that?  Maybe it's time for you to grow up and stop making excuses for the world's largest software company.  You might not like the iPad, but it's possible that what you want will be a flop.


Well Jeff, he's a troll, so logic isn't what he's interested in. He's here to do what he's already done, which is to get a bunch of people to waste their time responding.
post #37 of 114

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott View Post

I prefer to take my WebEx meetings on the "toy", create rough cuts of educational videos on the "toy", review music and provide feedback on the "toy", do my bookkeeping on the "toy", do most of my business correspondence on the "toy", storyboard on the "toy", do landscape assessments on the "toy", and present my ideas, portfolio, and final products on the "toy".

 

Er... "iPad".

 

 

 

Make games on your iPad that would be programming, would it not?

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post #38 of 114

Microsoft ought to follow RIM's lead and focus on the enterprise. Apple is weaker there, so it's safe. haha....Although the iPad is penetrating some enterprise scenarios as well.

 

Resistance is futile. Microsoft's going down and that downward spiral would accelerate if Apple ever were to license OS X to non-Apple manufacturers.

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post #39 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

However, I do visualize that future Desktop Macs will use the iPad as an auxiliary touch input device... Especially for apps like drawing, painting, CAD, audio/video/photo editing...

 

i would love to see that. I think it would be awesome to see iPhoto for iOS connect with iPhoto for Mac OS so I can brush on my iPad and change a photo on my computer in the same way I can do it on my iPad. I would love to be able to flick across my iPad to flip through a 'stack' of photos. or to jog through footage in iMovie or Final Cut. 


I've been doing this for some time. There are a bunch of apps that allow the iPad to be used as a very big touchpad. Some are even available from Adobe.

I have the appropriately named Touchpad, as well as Mobile Mouse. AirDisplay also works as a second monitor, and allows screen manipulations to the desktop and programs such as Photoshop.

Adobe has Adobe Navigator which is a great addition to the program. There's also LRPad, which allows Lightroom and other photo apps, and some others to be controlled from the iPad.

There are others, but I don't have them. I do have some apps that mimic audio studio production hardware such as the Korg iElectribe, which is a rhythm synth.

A lot of good stuf out there!
post #40 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post

Microsoft ought to follow RIM's lead and focus on the enterprise. Apple is weaker there, so it's safe. haha....Although the iPad is penetrating some enterprise scenarios as well.

 

Resistance is futile. Microsoft's going down and that downward spiral would accelerate if Apple ever were to license OS X to non-Apple manufacturers.


During the call early this evening Apple said that they had been hiring people to specifically deal with the enterprise in areas such as iPad and iPhone adoption, and other areas as well, which I assume to be macs.

They already are involved with companies such as Unisys, and others, who are integrators. That is, they get the proper hardware and software together, even writing some for companies.
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