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Samsung reportedly behind mock protest flashmob at Apple Store - Page 5

post #161 of 189
4/27/12 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
All reports of antenna problems were orchestrated by "shills" who purchased the 4 just to fabricate imaginary problems.


You can't believe that this is what I've said.

 

Quote:

Apple's decision to offer free bumpers was nothing more than a coincidence (as is the current out of court settlement).

 

Coincidence? No. Evidence of a defect? No. Standard operating procedure for the company with the best customer service on the planet? Yes.

 

I have years upon years of evidence to prove that. The most recent of which being the exchange of six year old iPod nanos for modern models, for free, because of an actual defect. I would think that a free Bumper for every user to placate the <1% of users that even so much as claimed there was an antenna problem is a far less substantial than the actual replacement programs Apple does.

 

Quote:

Nokia intentionally built a connection flaw into the Lumia just so that they could fix it in a matter of days and offer those affected a $100. Darn those sneaky Fins, anything to make themselves look better than Apple

 

I know nothing of this nor know why it's being brought up… 

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #162 of 189
4/27/12 at 1:29pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Standard operating procedure for the company with the best customer service on the planet? Yes.

 

I have years upon years of evidence to prove that. The most recent of which being the exchange of six year old iPod nanos for modern models, for free, because of an actual defect. 

 

 

They aren't replacing the nanos out of the goodness of their hearts. They're replacing them because they lost a class action lawsuit. A defect they have been denying for years.

 

 

Does this look like a company with the best customer service?

 

Phone 4 Settlement  https://www.iphone4settlement.com/

MagSafe Power Adapter Settlement  https://www.adaptersettlement.com/

Ipod Settlement  http://www.appleipodsettlement.com

Apple Inc. Securities Settlement  https://www.applesecuritiessettlement.com

Edited by Russell - 4/27/12 at 2:25pm

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD than any iPad

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No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD than any iPad

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post #163 of 189
4/27/12 at 1:45pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

The countdown is for 96 days from now. What thinks ye that be for?

 

Tbh, this smells a lot more like a Microsoft campaign than Samsung.

 

96 days is about 3 months. 3 months is about July. July or sometime in summer. Perhaps OS X Mountain Lion? Just thinking about it.

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post #164 of 189
4/27/12 at 2:42pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

 

 

Erm does that include "junk" made with Samsung components?

 

BTW next time get a Miele washing machine if you want quality, Electrolux are crap by comparison.

 

Also iPad display and the iPhone processors made by Samsung.

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post #165 of 189
4/27/12 at 2:48pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Coincidence? No. Evidence of a defect? No. Standard operating procedure for the company with the best customer service on the planet? Yes.

 

 

 

Yeah right....Apple was just feeling generous and gave out free cases for no reason! Apple almost never admit fault unless they absolutely have to and by giving our the free that's exactly what they did.

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post #166 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:29pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Coincidence? No. Evidence of a defect? No. Standard operating procedure for the company with the best customer service on the planet? Yes.

 

 

OK, let's be as clear as possible about this.

 

1) Do you deny that the iPhone 4 suffers signal loss when held which is worse than that experienced by other phones?

 

2) If you are denying that, then how do you refute the signal loss figures which AnandTech obtained?

 

 

 

 

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post #167 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post



OK, let's be as clear as possible about this.

1) Are you denying that the iPhone 4 suffers signal loss when held which is any worse than that experienced by other phones?

2) If you are denying that, then how do you refute the signal loss figures which AnandTech obtained?

Yes, as previously noted ad nauseum the iPhone 4 WHEN HELD can connect and maintain calls when others can't. Again, you're looking at a dB value without actually understanding what the **** the means just like the asshats that only look at the CPU megahertz and camera megapixels.

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post #168 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:39pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Yes, as previously noted ad nauseum the iPhone 4 WHEN HELD can connect and maintain calls when others can't. Again, you're looking at a dB value without actually understanding what the **** the means just like the asshats that only look at the CPU megahertz and camera megapixels.

 

 

You are not addressing my points. 

 

My argument is about whether there is a flaw with the antenna on the iPhone 4, as compared to other phones.

 

My argument is not about whether the iPhone 4 has any other strengths or features which allow it to connect or maintain calls where others can't, in spite of any possible problem with the antenna.

 

My argument is solely about the alleged flaw with the antenna. Whether the baseband or software has strengths which counteract any flaw with the antenna is not relevant to what I am saying.

 

It's a very very simple question, providing you don't complicate it. Is there a flaw with the antenna, or is there not?


Edited by Euphonious - 4/27/12 at 4:46pm
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post #169 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post




You are not addressing my points. 

My argument is about whether there is a flaw with the antenna on the iPhone 4, as compared to other phones.

My argument is not about whether the iPhone 4 has any other strengths or features which allow it to connect or maintain calls where others can't, in spite of any possible problem with the antenna.

My argument is solely about the alleged flaw with the antenna. Whether the baseband or software has strengths which counteract any flaw with the antenna is not relevant to what I am saying.

External antenna was a dumb move on Apple's part? Nope!

iPhone 4 was not able to connect to a network when held in the hand? Nope!

iPhone 4 was able to connect where other phones could not because the dB range was wider than other devices? Yep!

iPhone 4 antenna was an improvement over the 3GS, according to Anand? Yep!

iPhone 4 was never recalled, was flagship phone longer than any other iPhone, and has sold more units than any other iPhone? Yep, yep and yep?


There! I've addressed (yet again) your asinine points about the iPhone 4's fatal design flaws.

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post #170 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:52pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There! I've addressed (yet again) your asinine points about the iPhone 4's fatal design flaws.

 

You have not addressed the points about the antenna at all.

 

What you've done is deflected them by talking about other strong points with the phone's signal reception and about the phone's commercial success. You keep making these points, yet I'm not actually disputing them! I know that the phone was really successful, and I know that the phone can connect where other phones can't!

 

But my basic question still remains... does the iPhone 4, when held, suffer greater signal loss in decibels than other comparable phones due to the design of its antenna?

 

Also, note that I've never said that the phone had a 'fatal design flaw'. That's obviously not the case, because the phone was so successful. I'm not arguing that the flaw was fatal, just that there was a flaw.

 

 

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post #171 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post


Yeah right....Apple was just feeling generous and gave out free cases for no reason! Apple almost never admit fault unless they absolutely have to and by giving our the free that's exactly what they did.

There was a reason, but it's not the fanciful reason you think it is. It's simple economics and marketing. Note they didn't change the design, issue a recall, or continue giving away cases. It was a radical and innovative design that they continued with in their next iPhone 4S despite the claims that it was stupid to put the antenna on the outside or that no other wireless device suffers from RF loss when you block the RF.

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post #172 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:56pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


There was a reason, but it's not the fanciful reason you think it is. It's simple economics and marketing. Note they didn't change the design, issue a recall, or continue giving away cases. It was a radical and innovative design that they continued with in their next iPhone 4S 

 

As I've said before, they didn't continue with the design on the 4S. The 4S has two separate cellular antennas where the 4 has one. It looks the same on the outside but on the inside it's considerably different.

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post #173 of 189
4/27/12 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

But my basic question still remains... does the iPhone 4, when held, suffer greater signal loss in decibels than other comparable phones due to the design of its antenna?

What about decibels are that difficult to understand. You keep saying that the range of the decibel change means it's fatal flaw but you are either trying really hard to ignore that the dB range is only viable in accordance to the levels at what the device can function or you just don't have a rudimentary understanding of HS-level science.

You can lengthen the string on a yo-yo and yet it still works fine, perhaps even better than before, yet you are claiming that additional drop due to the wider usable range means that the yo-yo is fatally flawed. That's how fraking stupid your position is.

PS: I'm still on an iPhone 4 and it has no case. Guess what? It works just fine.

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post #174 of 189
4/27/12 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post


As I've said before, they didn't continue with the design on the 4S. The 4S has two separate cellular antennas where the 4 has one. It looks the same on the outside but on the inside it's considerably different.

So your position now is that because they improved the design that the previous design was fatally flawed? Based on that logic then all previous anything are fatally flawed when they are improved upon in subsequent updates. Brilliant¡

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post #175 of 189
4/27/12 at 5:03pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


What about decibels are that difficult to understand. You keep saying that the range of the decibel change means it's fatal flaw but you are either trying really hard to ignore that the dB range is only viable in accordance to the levels at what the device can function or you just don't have a rudimentary understanding of HS-level science.

 

1) I have never used the words 'fatal flaw'. I don't believe that the flaw was 'fatal' and I've never argued that it was.

 

2) I completely acknowledge the fact that the range of the decibel change might not affect the functioning of the device. Whether it does or doesn't isn't relevant to what I'm arguing. I'm just asking whether you agree that the range of decibel change indicates a flaw with the antenna, when seen in isolation from any other elements of the phone. You seem to be coming up with all sorts of creative arguments to avoid admitting it.

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post #176 of 189
4/27/12 at 5:06pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So your position now is that because they improved the design that the previous design was fatally flawed? Based on that logic then all previous anything are fatally flawed when they are improved upon in subsequent updates. Brilliant¡

 

Nah, I don't think that. I'm not using the change to support my argument that the previous design was flawed. I've got no idea why they changed it other than that it's a superior system, which is a good enough reason in itself.

 

I'm saying that you can't use the continuity in the design to support the argument that there was no flaw, because they did change the design.

 

 

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post #177 of 189
4/27/12 at 5:23pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


What about decibels are that difficult to understand. You keep saying that the range of the decibel change means it's fatal flaw but you are either trying really hard to ignore that the dB range is only viable in accordance to the levels at what the device can function or you just don't have a rudimentary understanding of HS-level science.

 

1) I have never used the words 'fatal flaw'. I don't believe that the flaw was 'fatal' and I've never argued that it was.

 

2) I completely acknowledge the fact that the range of the decibel change might not affect the functioning of the device. Whether it does or doesn't isn't relevant to what I'm arguing. I'm just asking whether you agree that the range of decibel change indicates a flaw with the antenna, when seen in isolation from any other elements of the phone. You seem to be coming up with all sorts of creative arguments to avoid admitting it.

 

I'm curious about the apparent fascination with the term "flaw" that this argument has engendered. All antenna designs represent performance compromises. If, in the iPhone 4, Apple designed an antenna/receiver combination that performs extremely well in actual use, does one metric, namely a larger signal strength drop at the receiver front end from an uncorrelated initial strength, make the design flawed?  Or just that design's particular tradeoff to get the target performance, which is presumably what actually counts.  That's assuming that the issue is real - I've never actually been able to replicate it on my IP4.

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post #178 of 189
4/27/12 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I'm curious about the apparent fascination with the term "flaw" that this argument has engendered. All antenna designs represent performance compromises. If, in the iPhone 4, Apple designed an antenna/receiver combination that performs extremely well in actual use, does one metric, namely a larger signal strength drop at the receiver front end from an uncorrelated initial strength, make the design flawed?  Or just that design's particular tradeoff to get the target performance, which is presumably what actually counts.  That's assuming that the issue is real - I've never actually been able to replicate it on my IP4.

Adding to that, let's not forget that this entire issue came about not because the public at large was reading AnandTech and focused on the signal variance compared to other devices, but because the arbitrarily defined bars showed a drop from being gripped a certain way and not being held at all.

It's amazing that in 2012 people are still thinking that the bars have actual meaning outside of more or less dB and have absolutely zero effect on the ability to make, receive or maintain a call in and of themselves. As I previously noted, Apple did mess up with the iPhone 4, but it was a lack of attention to detail in not adjusting the way the bars are being represented which is why this whole issue got started in the first place.


PS: I understand when the average person doesn't have a clue about how technology works but when someone comes to a technology-based internet forum I do expect them to have a better understanding of technology. Sadly, I expect too much of some forum posters.

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post #179 of 189
4/28/12 at 12:45am

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


You can't believe that this is what I've said.

 

 

Coincidence? No. Evidence of a defect? No. Standard operating procedure for the company with the best customer service on the planet? Yes.

 

I have years upon years of evidence to prove that. The most recent of which being the exchange of six year old iPod nanos for modern models, for free, because of an actual defect. I would think that a free Bumper for every user to placate the <1% of users that even so much as claimed there was an antenna problem is a far less substantial than the actual replacement programs Apple does.

 

 

I know nothing of this nor know why it's being brought up… 

 

Apologies, the suggestion that all complaints were by shills came from jragosta and not you.You were replying to my reply to him so I merged my responses.

 

Not sure how you define "best customer service on the planet". I would agree that AntennaGate aside Apple do (often) have very good customer services but would suggest that replacing a low value nano because of a class action is perhaps not quite as good as, for example, Belkin's lifetime waranty... I have had 7 year old routers that died of old age that were swapped out for the cureent equivilent. As an aside, I have had reason to complain about intentional misselling of AppleCare.

 

I mention Nokia to show an example of a firm that seems to have learned lessons from the AntennaGate debacle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #180 of 189
4/28/12 at 3:37pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

 

 

Nokia kept growing for several years after the iPhone was released as well.  Didn't last.  They're in a race to the bottom with the prime mover in this marketplace.  Samsung also depends upon Google, which so far hasn't done anywhere near as good a job updating Android as Apple has done with iOS.  Cust sat figures don't lie.

 

Samsung will find it increasingly difficult to compete with Apple on price and on features over the next 2-3 years.  That'll force them to compete by reducing their margins.  Look to RIMM and Nokia to see how that story ends.

 

And of course, Googlerola is now a direct competitor.  What if Google decides to keep new versions of Android for itself, or if they switch their attentions to a Chrome-based Motorola smartphone that can run Android apps?  Either would be a disaster for Samsung (although it could finally give Apple a run for its money).

 

 

 


Edited by tooltalk - 4/29/12 at 4:05am
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post #181 of 189
4/28/12 at 7:45pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I never thought I'd ever see anything more pathetic than Ryan Leaf's football career...

 

I am so glad people remember that guy.   As a KC Chiefs fan, I really enjoyed that entire train wreck.

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post #182 of 189
4/30/12 at 3:17pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

 

 

I can buy the real thing... or a cheap-feeling plastic copy. Why do I need to "wake up" to make that decision? 

 

This is just a continuation of Samsung making fun of Apple customers and thinking that will somehow convince them to buy crap for the same price. Besides, Samsung offers no innovation, no additional quality, no high design in software or hardware, no wide selection in apps, or an integrated cloud support. 

 

1. Samsung made the next gen iPad screens, not apple.

2. Google is kinda the biggest cloud on the planet. Google Music (app) allows you to store 20,000 songs on your device without taking a single Gig.

3. Samsung has 4G LTE (not fake 3.5G HSPA+), NFC, Quadcore, Gorilla Glass, DLNA, oh... and doesnt mind you rooting your device.

You my friend might need to wake up to how far behind the times you are. Its not cool anymore when you see old people use iPhones. I had the first, everyone wanted to see and use it. Now, everyone has an iPhone... If you have an iphone, and think it is innovative, then you are following a crowd. Try paying from your iphone via NFC, or getting 54Mbs down... I did that last year... you havent yet? So lame... Your loyal to apple, which is ok. Nerds are more loyal to innovation, regardless of brand. Not bashing your choice of Apple, I had an iphone for the past 5 years... but a true open mind person doesnt stick to a brand, but by the technology leader... which is totally different from "the cool crowd" or what is popular by even old people. Samsung is #1 in TV Screens, and guess what... it is just a matter of time before you realize what your holding... 

 

Just think a moment about the top 10 apps your use on your iPhone. Did apple make those apps? Or did a developer? If a device does or does not have an app, whos to blame? the manufacturer or the developer? Chances are, the experience you feel isnt coming from Apple, but only the apps you open and use... Apple is good at sales, and you were sold...nothing more... 

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post #183 of 189
4/30/12 at 9:42pm

 


Apple's customer service does not prove itself in absense of flaws, mistakes, shortcomings.

It proves itself when, as always - with all products in the world - human error comes into play.

 

They correctly estimated the actual seriousness of the flaw/shortcoming/tradeoff with signal attenuation (minor) and responded accordingly:

 

1. Assuaged customers by extending the return policy and offering free bumpers

2. Informed customers (and the public) that signal attenuation was a common effect of modern smartphone design that was not exclusive to or worse with the iPhone 4

3. They improved it in the next model

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanBrot View Post

 

 

1. Samsung made the next gen iPad screens, not apple.

2. Google is kinda the biggest cloud on the planet. Google Music (app) allows you to store 20,000 songs on your device without taking a single Gig.

3. Samsung has 4G LTE (not fake 3.5G HSPA+), NFC, Quadcore, Gorilla Glass, DLNA, oh... and doesnt mind you rooting your device.

You my friend might need to wake up to how far behind the times you are. Its not cool anymore when you see old people use iPhones. I had the first, everyone wanted to see and use it. Now, everyone has an iPhone... If you have an iphone, and think it is innovative, then you are following a crowd. Try paying from your iphone via NFC, or getting 54Mbs down... I did that last year... you havent yet? So lame... Your loyal to apple, which is ok. Nerds are more loyal to innovation, regardless of brand. Not bashing your choice of Apple, I had an iphone for the past 5 years... but a true open mind person doesnt stick to a brand, but by the technology leader... which is totally different from "the cool crowd" or what is popular by even old people. Samsung is #1 in TV Screens, and guess what... it is just a matter of time before you realize what your holding... 

 

Just think a moment about the top 10 apps your use on your iPhone. Did apple make those apps? Or did a developer? If a device does or does not have an app, whos to blame? the manufacturer or the developer? Chances are, the experience you feel isnt coming from Apple, but only the apps you open and use... Apple is good at sales, and you were sold...nothing more... 

 

Everyone is being 'sold' a phone. Samsung, Microsoft, HTC, Nokia, Apple are all SELLING you something.

 


Apple typically sells an 'experience' not technology.

Some people are interested in having specs, abilities, features, etc.

Others don't care whats behind, what's ahead and what's upcoming as long as the current available experience is great.

 

 

Being on the bleeding edge can be lonely until everyone else catches up.

I'd argue that for once . . . Cool/popular is actually synonymous with the technology leader.
Not the 'newest' technology, but the best use of it.

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post #184 of 189
4/30/12 at 9:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanBrot View Post



1. Samsung made the next gen iPad screens, not apple.
2. Google is kinda the biggest cloud on the planet. Google Music (app) allows you to store 20,000 songs on your device without taking a single Gig.
3. Samsung has 4G LTE (not fake 3.5G HSPA+), NFC, Quadcore, Gorilla Glass, DLNA, oh... and doesnt mind you rooting your device.
You my friend might need to wake up to how far behind the times you are. Its not cool anymore when you see old people use iPhones. I had the first, everyone wanted to see and use it. Now, everyone has an iPhone... If you have an iphone, and think it is innovative, then you are following a crowd. Try paying from your iphone via NFC, or getting 54Mbs down... I did that last year... you havent yet? So lame... Your loyal to apple, which is ok. Nerds are more loyal to innovation, regardless of brand. Not bashing your choice of Apple, I had an iphone for the past 5 years... but a true open mind person doesnt stick to a brand, but by the technology leader... which is totally different from "the cool crowd" or what is popular by even old people. Samsung is #1 in TV Screens, and guess what... it is just a matter of time before you realize what your holding... 

Just think a moment about the top 10 apps your use on your iPhone. Did apple make those apps? Or did a developer? If a device does or does not have an app, whos to blame? the manufacturer or the developer? Chances are, the experience you feel isnt coming from Apple, but only the apps you open and use... Apple is good at sales, and you were sold...nothing more... 
I don't think I've ever seen more incorrect bullshit posted in a single post before.

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post #185 of 189
5/1/12 at 12:41am

Well just reported today, RIM confirms that they are behind the Wake Up stunt. Up until now Apple fans were still insisting that Samsung was lying. Funniest thing I have ever seen.

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post #186 of 189
5/1/12 at 12:49am

Yes, it was an embarrassment to all level-headed followers of Apple.

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post #187 of 189
5/1/12 at 2:00am

I (Platanas) personally urged Nate Burr to confess its involvement yesterday on twitter, so that he and Blackberry came out with the truth finally. Nate was advised long before to be at this place at the right time. Here is my blogpost to that marketing incident: http://www.platanas.com/nate-burr-confessed-to-be-involved-in-sydney-wake-up-fake-event-after-platanas-it-ultimatum/

Platanas IT Intelligence: digging for truth

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Platanas IT Intelligence: digging for truth

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post #188 of 189
5/1/12 at 2:11am

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanBrot View Post

 

 

1. Samsung made the next gen iPad screens, not apple.

2. Google is kinda the biggest cloud on the planet. Google Music (app) allows you to store 20,000 songs on your device without taking a single Gig.

3. Samsung has 4G LTE (not fake 3.5G HSPA+), NFC, Quadcore, Gorilla Glass, DLNA, oh... and doesnt mind you rooting your device.

You my friend might need to wake up to how far behind the times you are. Its not cool anymore when you see old people use iPhones. I had the first, everyone wanted to see and use it. Now, everyone has an iPhone... If you have an iphone, and think it is innovative, then you are following a crowd. Try paying from your iphone via NFC, or getting 54Mbs down... I did that last year... you havent yet? So lame... Your loyal to apple, which is ok. Nerds are more loyal to innovation, regardless of brand. Not bashing your choice of Apple, I had an iphone for the past 5 years... but a true open mind person doesnt stick to a brand, but by the technology leader... which is totally different from "the cool crowd" or what is popular by even old people. Samsung is #1 in TV Screens, and guess what... it is just a matter of time before you realize what your holding... 

 

Just think a moment about the top 10 apps your use on your iPhone. Did apple make those apps? Or did a developer? If a device does or does not have an app, whos to blame? the manufacturer or the developer? Chances are, the experience you feel isnt coming from Apple, but only the apps you open and use... Apple is good at sales, and you were sold...nothing more... 

 

Hey, don't feed GermanBrot, he is just only a liar and Android-sockpuppet. What did he last year? Very sure not any NFC payment and not any true 4G 54Mbs download in Germany, because its just not possible.

 

 

 

Platanas IT Intelligence: digging for truth

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post #189 of 189
5/1/12 at 10:43am

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanBrot View Post

Just think a moment about the top 10 apps your use on your iPhone. Did apple make those apps? Or did a developer? If a device does or does not have an app, whos to blame? the manufacturer or the developer? Chances are, the experience you feel isnt coming from Apple, but only the apps you open and use... Apple is good at sales, and you were sold...nothing more... 

 

What a preposterous thing to say.

 

So Apple makes the hardware, Apple makes the OS and defines the interaction paradigm, Apple provides the UI guidelines, Apple is responsible for eliminating fragmentation in the App Store, Apple provides a market where developers can actually make money from their apps, hence encouraging developers to write apps in the first place - and yet the entire experience comes from the developer?

 

More to the point, if iOS offers a better range of apps than other platforms, why is it material "who's to blame?" People overwhelmingly don't make purchases based upon ideological arguments. They buy the product which offers the best package, and in terms of an app market that is Apple at the minute.

 

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